Mysterious Missile Launch Over California - 11/8/2010

Originally posted by backinblack
The satellite image that was said to be the right timeframe for Flight 808?
I remember that...But this was Flight 902 which was 30 minutes later..

Multiple satellite images from 4:45pm to 6:30pm in this GIF:

Originally posted by timewstr
New member, first post.
In an effort to get some real evidence I went fishing through the available Earth observation data. Unfortunately NASA's "A-Train" of Earth observation satellites only passes overhead at ~1:30PM so they didn't see this event. But the GOES weather satellites, parked in geostationary orbit, keep an eye on the Earth at all times. So I grabbed the relevant GOES data for California, on Nov. 8 and made an animated GIF out of it. There is a clear contrail that appears between 5:15PM and 5:30PM and then it blows south.



Raw Data
goes.gsfc.nasa.gov...

edit on 10-11-2010 by timewstr because: Added raw data link

That should pretty much cover the time frame of interest, shouldn't it?

reply to post by Arbitrageur


What I'm saying is that all the facts, including that satellite image were supposed to be proven conducive to flight 808...Down to a few minutes/miles.
So why should I or anyone else now accept them as evidence of flight 902, 30 minutes later and more miles away?
Doesn't make sense to me...

reply to post by backinblack
I never claimed it only could have been 808, I always said it could be either flight.

Are you saying the satellite image of the contrail is inconsistent with the position of the UPS flight?

I can look up flight 808 on flightaware.com... but I'm not sure how to look up the UPS flight, it's not on that site.

Which flight left the contrail?

Seems like an elephant in the room....

Two flights, each being blamed for the ONE contrail.

reply to post by Arbitrageur


As you say, two flights on similar flightpaths, times and altitudes..
So why isn't there two contrails??
Conditions were perfect for both flights according to all the ATS experts..

reply to post by backinblack


Here's my same answer, from another thread:

.......We have the first airplane that passed the area, same route, a bit earlier (and was tentatively identified as the contrail maker, until the times were nailed down more precisely)...USAir 808. A Boeing 757. IT cruised by at 37,000 feet.

Later, and at the proper time (people were focusing on passenger airplanes, at first)...UPS 902. An MD-11. IT was cruising at 39,000 feet (later, nearing the coast, began initial descent, levelled briefly at 29,000).

Two airplanes, two thousand feet apart...on same route. It is often seen that contrails will form at one altitude, but not another just feet above or below...even a few hundred makes a difference, sometimes.

Originally posted by weedwhacker
reply to post by backinblack

 

Here's my same answer, from another thread:

.......We have the first airplane that passed the area, same route, a bit earlier (and was tentatively identified as the contrail maker, until the times were nailed down more precisely)...USAir 808. A Boeing 757. IT cruised by at 37,000 feet.

Later, and at the proper time (people were focusing on passenger airplanes, at first)...UPS 902. An MD-11. IT was cruising at 39,000 feet (later, nearing the coast, began initial descent, levelled briefly at 29,000).

Two airplanes, two thousand feet apart...on same route. It is often seen that contrails will form at one altitude, but not another just feet above or below...even a few hundred makes a difference, sometimes.

It would seem to me that you have just proven that we have no definitive proof that either plane left a contrail!

Sorry!
Double post.

reply to post by weedwhacker


And its the exact answer I'd expect from you..
Funny though, when it was thought it was flight 808 you and everyone else combined to show weather patterns at it's altitude and position to show it was in a PERFECT position to produce contrails..
I think about half a dozen of you would have to do some quick editing of posts to deny that..

Originally posted by weedwhacker
reply to post by backinblack

 

Here's my same answer, from another thread:

.......We have the first airplane that passed the area, same route, a bit earlier (and was tentatively identified as the contrail maker, until the times were nailed down more precisely)...USAir 808. A Boeing 757. IT cruised by at 37,000 feet.

Later, and at the proper time (people were focusing on passenger airplanes, at first)...UPS 902. An MD-11. IT was cruising at 39,000 feet (later, nearing the coast, began initial descent, levelled briefly at 29,000).

Two airplanes, two thousand feet apart...on same route. It is often seen that contrails will form at one altitude, but not another just feet above or below...even a few hundred makes a difference, sometimes.

Tentatively identified?? You have got to be joking..
You guys were deadset certain....
And no one on ATS changed their minds...
It was a fixed web cam pic that made it evident flight 808 was wrong or you guys would still be saying that was the plane....
At least be honest, it's all here on file (and on my HDD just in case)

Originally posted by this_is_who_we_are

Originally posted by backinblack
reply to post by MegaMind

 

I see the thread in which this was discussed and whether it is a UPS flight or flight 808. Either way there is no evidence outside of the video that it was a missile. And that evidence does not clearly show it to be a missile. Hence this debate. There is evidence however of jets in that area at that time which could easily leave the trail seen. There is no reason to conclude it was a missile.

Well heres the truth..
We listened to 3 days of all the experst telling us Flight808 was flying in ideal conditions to produce that enormous contrail..
Now its been shown not to be flight 808..
So now we have listened to the same experts tell us that flight 902 was also flying in ideal conditions to produce that enormous contrail..

SO, the BIG question is not which plane it was but why was there only ONE ENORMOUS CONTRAIL..
There realistically, according to all the so called experts should have been TWO....

Debunk that with a straight face

edit on 15-11-2010 by backinblack because: (no reason given)

Playing devil's advoctate here. If this was a missile and if there were two planes making contrails, then there should be two contrails: one from the passenger flight and one from the UPS flight, and one missile plume. Where does this line of thought take us?

In other words, if this was a missile, where are the two jet contrails that should have been in the sky?

edit on 11/15/2010 by this_is_who_we_are because: re-worded

edit on 11/15/2010 by this_is_who_we_are because: added last sentence

reply to post by this_is_who_we_are
As just stated by Weedwhacker before your post, the two flights weren't at the same altitude, and contrails may form at one altitude but not another.

Originally posted by Arbitrageur
reply to post by this_is_who_we_are

 

As just stated by Weedwhacker before your post, the two flights weren't at the same altitude, and contrails may form at one altitude but not another.

So what proof is there that the contrail was formed by either aircraft at any altitude involved?

Or does no one get that. WW's post kind of kills any verifiable proof that either flight produced a contrail.

Originally posted by Arbitrageur
reply to post by this_is_who_we_are

 

As just stated by Weedwhacker before your post, the two flights weren't at the same altitude, and contrails may form at one altitude but not another.

True but weedwacker, Phage and many others have also stated that BOTH planes were in ideal conditions to produce contrails..
Of course they said this at different times as the target plane changed but it was pretty darn convincing...

So why not two contrails again???

reply to post by backinblack


DIFFERENT ALTITUDES!!!

Read it.

Originally posted by backinblack
So why not two contrails again???

Contrails CAN form anywhere between 26000-40000 feet, sometimes lower than that but that's a good range for contrails to form.

Just because they CAN form in that range, doesn't mean they WILL form in that range. The temperature, humidity, air currents, air pressure, and other factors all can play a role in their formation.

Here's an explanation by NASA:

Why did one plane leave a contrail, but the other did not?

A: The two planes were flying at different altitudes - air traffic control has rules for spacing flights in different directions - so that the north-south flight path contained more moisture or was at a lower temperature than the east-west flight-path. The amount of moisture in the atmosphere can change considerably in a short vertical distance. It depends strongly on the origin of the particular air mass. There are also variations in the efficiency of aircraft engines, which can affect whether or not a particular plane will leave a contrail.

Last Updated: 09/02/2008 05:24:17

Note when that page was last updated, it predates this incident, so nobody is making up stories to suit this particular occasion.

reply to post by backinblack

Since you seem to have missed it the first time:

Any one or more of a number of reasons.

Different aircraft/engines. Different contrail characteristics.

Different altitudes. US808 was 2,000 feet lower than UPS902. Different atmospheric conditions.

US808 was over Catalina 30 minutes before UPS902.
a)With 75 knot winds at altitude, time for the contrail to drift more than 30 miles.
b)Time for a contrail to dissipate or spread.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

reply to post by Arbitrageur

Just because they CAN form in that range, doesn't mean they WILL form in that range. The temperature, humidity, air currents, air pressure, and other factors all can play a role in their formation.

That statement says it all.

What page are we on???

No one has proof of a missile. No one can even prove that either one of those planes left a contrail AT ALL.

Originally posted by weedwhacker
reply to post by backinblack

 

DIFFERENT ALTITUDES!!!

Read it.

Ohh come on now WW..Do I really need to search back in the thread to where you and others stated clearly that flight 808 was in perfect contrail space???
It's really a little sad..I thought you'd be man enouth to admit when you're wrong..

Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by backinblack

 

Since you seem to have missed it the first time:

Any one or more of a number of reasons.

Different aircraft/engines. Different contrail characteristics.

Different altitudes. US808 was 2,000 feet lower than UPS902. Different atmospheric conditions.

US808 was over Catalina 30 minutes before UPS902.
a)With 75 knot winds at altitude, time for the contrail to drift more than 30 miles.
b)Time for a contrail to dissipate or spread.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

edit on 11/15/2010 by Phage because: (no reason given)

Thats not what you thought or said when you were convinced it was flight 808..
You all checked the flightpath, altitudes, weather, the whole lot and said yep, perfect for contrails...
It would be nice to hear an, I was wrong.....