Suicide And The Aftermath.

Chinesis;

I do believe that depression is an illness.
It can be debillitating and dangerous and
I will never ridicule or belittle anyone who
suffers through it.

From what I could understand of your
post I get the impression that you do have
this condition. What I do not understand
or appreciate is your need to make myself
feel as if I need to justify my existence to
you.

Now aside from your philisophical whatevers
I can answer some of your questions.

1. My family knows my views about this
subject and I believe if I choose it they
would understand why.

2. The reason I have not done so yet is
I do not think I have reached that point
yet.

3. Physical pain is different than mental
or phsycological anguish. The latter could
very well be a chemical imbalance or
something that counseling could help with.
All of your philisophical meanderings cannot
change that.

4. Western society and religion does place
a stigma on suicide. Eastern religions and
cultures veiw it differently.

Some people who have severe cases of
Parkinsons or M.S (alot stronger in charachter
than me) are using the last of their money to
go to Switzerland. There they could do this
legaly, but not anymore.

As far as your second post you must have
confused me with someone else.

reply to post by ThichHeaded


Suicide is ultimately your choice as it should be, and the reason people blame the suicider is because they for some silly reason believe that if one person was suicidal and got over it, then if they were in such a situation they would be able to not give in to it to. And yes they are right in that, because we in many ways are connected. But anyone with a brain and some sympathy for others can see that sometimes, death is the only option. But before you do anything you might regret, try to do something that you wont regret. Put some effort in to other options first.


"People say its a cowards way out, or they were being a pussy, or they gave up. "

What do people really know of anything, the truth is life is a pain in the beehind sometimes and also mostimes depending on many factors. And so why should death even by suicide be any different. It takes great courage to suicide even in great pain and misery, it's not something that anybody can do without courage. But death has a finality to it that does make it easyer in some ways, the finality of the unknown. So it takes courage to take your own life, and it takes courage to live on in your own life. There are no cowards in life or death it all takes courage..... But people being people like to think that its all the same or a walk in the park, and that is really the only thing I can say that is cowardly, they like to judge from miles away what they would do, as if they are much different. But the only thing they are seeing in reality, is the similarities of what they would do if in there place, and it wont be much different. We all like to just quess on what we might do, kind of like watching a fight on tv with drunk people in a bar, you know someone will say "well I would of done this or that and kicked his ass" but watching something and doing something are two different story's, and thinking it would be like we think it would be, is just silly. But we all live in our fantasies we call reality, as long as its far away we can say anything we like. So I guess ill respond the same way to this as to the drunk tuff guys, "sure why not buddy, I'm pretty sure that you a dude who would get tired walking up some stairs, and probably fall on your ass trying to walk a straight line, can take on some huge dude who spends years getting punched in the face for hours 5 days a week, but mostly spends his time punching other dudes in the face every week...... sure why not it would be a cake walk" To relate to something or someone means to kind of get it.


"The 3rd time I tried suicide I had an incident happen where I ended up talking to myself. I was told by myself that I wasn't allowed to kill myself and that I had things to do.. I told me that I would know when this would end and that i would feel that my time was up.. March was when i learned that i don't need to be here."

Yet here you still are, you could always find something else to do I guess, it's your life do whatever. I'm pretty sure we all are just either doing something, or looking for something to do in life. It aint really a mystery, maybe you should do like forest gump and just go for a little jog to clear your head.


"Why do people think a suicide is something they are not? I am sure they were going through more torture in life to even contemplate death.."

Who know's, who cares, to much writing and explaining, maybe you should be more like forest gump, less thinking on things you can't change, and more doing something or just doing anything. Just watch the movie, it always makes me want to go for a jog...Peace out.

Many people contemplate suicide when things become overwhelming, and some just desperately want to find out what comes next.

Ive thought about if before, and Im sure most people who have experienced sudden anguish have thought about it.

I have come to the conclusion that most people are just seeking attention.

Why are you sitting there typing that you have "tried" to take your own life on more than one occasion? Besides the fact that you clearly have some mental issue that needs to be addressed, you are also astonishingly bad at doing a simple task.

People who ATTEMPT suicide are looking for love, and attention, its a "cry for help" when it appears no one is listening.

Suicide isnt hard to accomplish, and people who attempt it more than once clearly dont really want to die. If I was going to to do it, I wouldnt take the chance that it wouldnt work. A bullet to the head is something you can never take back. Overdosing on pills, cutting your wrist, etc, is relatively easy to fix if you have second thoughts.

Of course, if I was going to do it, I wouldnt blow my head off, although quick and almost a guarantee of success, no family member should have to remember you by how many hours it took to scrape your brain matter of their ceiling..... A plastic bag over the head, with a rubber band around the throat, after taking several sleeping pills and you will go in peace.

LET ME MAKE THIS CLEAR: I AM IN NO WAY CONDONING SUICIDE OR ANY METHOD OF HARMING ONES SELF. LIFE IS WORTH LIVING, NOTHING IS EVER REALLY AS BAD AS IT SEEMS.

I just wanted to make the point, that anyone who attempts suicide and fails, doesnt really want to die.

Originally posted by galadofwarthethird
reply to post by ThichHeaded

 

And so why should death even by suicide be any different.

I am going to state what I believe and actually back it up this time instead of just talking.. Because I want to show why I belive what I do..
This is one of the reasons suicide is a good thing for me.. Or some others I suppose...

I am going to add an ex source on this but the site went down so i am going to use wayback machine..
sucks cause this was a good research tool to.. This site you can learn alot about NDE's..

Link

"Seldom are suicide near-death scenarios hell-like. Contrary to popular notions, most suicide NDEs are positive, or at least illustrative of the importance of life and its living. Although I have yet to find a suicide experience that was in any way transcendent or in-depth, just to have something happen, anything that affirms that he or she is loved and special, seems miracle enough for the one involved. Near-death survivors from suicide attempts can and often do return with the same sense of mission that any other experiencer of the phenomenon reports."

ahh screw it.. This is to hard to do..
I will find others posts i have written on death and put something together..
Sucks this site is dead.. it was a good site..

Anyway...

Originally posted by WhiteDevil013
Many people contemplate suicide when things become overwhelming, and some just desperately want to find out what comes next.

I agree with you..

People who ATTEMPT suicide are looking for love, and attention, its a "cry for help" when it appears no one is listening.

Well I do know for a fact that when one dies they feel unconditional love and acceptance when they die, Although god sometimes talks to them about why they suicided there is always a feeling of those always around, it never chances..

Suicide isnt hard to accomplish, and people who attempt it more than once clearly dont really want to die. If I was going to to do it, I wouldnt take the chance that it wouldnt work. A bullet to the head is something you can never take back. Overdosing on pills, cutting your wrist, etc, is relatively easy to fix if you have second thoughts.

Ya I have heard this from alot of people who tried to do it.. A few people through out my past has stated at the last second wanted to live at the second they were doing what they was..
One person I know shot himself in the mouth and after he was done said he wanted to live.. he ended up living anyway and well his life is jacked...

Another case can be seen on that doc The Bridge where they talk to people who suicide off the golden gate.. The one guy jumped and he said as soon as he left the bridge his only throught was like wtf am I this stupid.. I dont want to die..(interesting.. I can quote someone in a movie to a tee.. meh..)

In some peoples case however I think suicide is viable, I am talking about people who are so mentally screwed that it is a good idea to do, or people who have been at a loss of things in life that are very important.. Love, and so on.. add whatever in this line.. Some things are important for these people to know because i think it is what makes some of us what we are.. I think the lack of something important is a bad thing because they roam life looking for something they will never find in thier lives..(this is my case..)

LET ME MAKE THIS CLEAR: I AM IN NO WAY CONDONING SUICIDE OR ANY METHOD OF HARMING ONES SELF. LIFE IS WORTH LIVING, NOTHING IS EVER REALLY AS BAD AS IT SEEMS.

I dont worry about it, someone who is going to do it whether someone tells them to or not to.. it really dont make a difference what someone says to them.. They have the idea in thier head and they will do whatever they know is right.. Nobody has a say in what someone does because that person feels it is best for them so they will ignore whatever people tell them and do what is right for them.. sounds suck but its true, how many times have someone told you to do something and you ended up doing it anyway because it felt right to you?

I just wanted to make the point, that anyone who attempts suicide and fails, doesnt really want to die.

Seems to be true, I will agree with you.. But for some the best way to find out is to actually do it to prove it to themselves.. ya know.

Originally posted by capgrup
Chinesis;
I will never ridicule or belittle anyone who suffers through it.

Neither will I.
I grew up ridicules and belittled (even worse was my fragile emotional state was transparent)
Yet people still attacked me unprovoked...
However my posts are genuine as they are unconventional because they identify the problem.
Then they give solutions. People don't like that. I feel you chose those
words poorly only because my posts solve problems.

Only a sensitive person one with a self-ish tendency to view their self *attacked*
ridiculed and/or belittled would see my posts as such.

Originally posted by capgrupFrom what I could understand of yourpost I get the impression
that you do have this condition. What I do not understand or appreciate is your need to
make myself feel as if I need to justify my existence to you.

Man, reading that gives me a strong sense of sorrow and regret
It was never an intention of mine to have people justify their existences to me.
In your case I wanted to know why you feel the way that you do (genuinely)
because I thought getting to the root of the issue would help?

I feel a person will have ups and downs -no question.
Rehabilitation doesn't denote curing Depression...It means:

-You acknowledge the problem(s)
-Have (or build up a strong sense of) determination for fixing the problem(s)
-Applying the wise knowledge given immediately injecting your life with it.
-People do NOT cause other people to ___________ YOU choose to become __________.....

Quite frankly I *want* to help people plain and simple.
Everyone I have talked to I have helped, how you ask?

Well, in order for that person to get help they need to have a desire for that help.
Then, they need to absolve their guilt, inner demons, skeletons in closets, harboring fears, blame...
This is done by pinpointing the catalyst, the causality and the origin(s) of said aforementioned feelings...
This is done by being held accountable and taking responsibility (not for the entire event mind you)
but aspects of it that were allowed to perpetuate due to ones own self inaction/internal feelings of _____.

Originally posted by capgrup

1. My family knows my views about this subject and I believe if I choose it they would understand why.
2. The reason I have not done so yet is I do not think I have reached that point yet.

Your mother and father made the decision to create new life in you.
It's hard to imagine me having a son/daughter (at any age) and *understanding* him taking his own life.
(And I haven't any children) -even I could imagine the pain -even then it is nothing compared to losing a child.

A parent should never (have to) outlive their children (via an unnatural death/circumstance) no less.
If your parents/family have any shred of moral decency in the form of love, empathy, compassion...
They WILL be destroyed internally, mentally and possibly even meta-physically.

Originally posted by capgrup3. Physical pain is different than mental or phsycological
anguish. The latter could very well be a chemical imbalance or something that counseling
could help with. All of your philisophical meanderings cannot change that.

I'm glad you made the distinction.
My mother didn't commit suicide, but still...she died.
I love her more than life itself...more than anything. I still feel her.
I am currently broken. It destroyed me to the point of me not wanting to
live anymore because I reasoned with myself and said, "What is the point?"
I connected with her on such a strong bonding level that her death was in essence my death.

I would have rather died than to have my everything gone just like that.
All superficial niceties in life do nothing for me.

2nd, my "philosophical meanderings" aren't anything wandering/random or the like.
Why would you say such a thing to me?

You confuse my words for someone looking on the outside in when in fact I was
everything clinically wrong with a person. How I overcame it relies on basic principles.

I've overcome suicidal thoughts 100% and I did it myself without drugs
(that didn't even work) when I took them. I suffer randomly with depression
but once I am aware of it *I* can change my feelings of it in an instant and the
manifest of change happens within minutes.

Originally posted by capgrup4. Western society and religion does place
a stigma on suicide. Eastern religions and
cultures veiw it differently.

Guess what?
I'm not religious, I'm spiritual.
Religion is what is wrong with a LOT of people make no mistake.

If there is a God out there he doesn't intervene.
The voice inside of you isn't God.
It is your conscience/intuitive self.

Mind over matter doesn't mean you think of winning the lotto then Poof you do.
In order to hit a home run you must first step up to the plate...

Mind over matter means:
-first you must visualise it
-then you must say it
-then it will materialise.

The pieces will all be there for you and a path towards your goal is created.
What you do with this knowledge is entirely up to you.


Have you heard of Dr. Wayne Dyer?
Mind viruses (memes) have reshaped how people view things in life.
In fact, just because a divorce is supposed to be "stressful" doesn't mean it has to be.
The loss of a job doesn't have to be stressful, does it?

Does the person act out stress because this is what they think/feel happens when something happens?

reply to post by ThichHeaded
I'm sorry to jump in without reading 17 pages, but I just wanted to mention, in case someone hadn't, that amazon lists several relevant titles if you search "suicide afterlife". In particular, I read "Suicide: What Really Happens in the Afterlife" by John Klimo and Pamela Heath and found it interesting.

That is my approach to researching suicide, and it might not be for everyone, but before I make major decisions I try to understand the issues.

For the record, I attempted suicide once many years ago when I was not sane and later thought about it seriously when I was sane but felt very ill. Today, I am so glad I'm here! Things change! I never would have fallen in love, for example, and now I am happily married.

Please pardon me if this comment is off the point or redundant.

suicide is cowardly and useless. Most people commit suicide to escape from a "harsh world". Well heres my deal, is your gonna kill yourself, you might as well be useful, and use it to help the world.

If you gonna kill yourself, do this-
Go to washington DC, and start a hunger strike in front of the capitol building, and wear a sign that says
"investigate the fed, for soon i'll be dead"

something along those lines,, you could atleast maybe help out the world a little bit.

reply to post by ThichHeaded



"I am going to state what I believe and actually back it up this time instead of just talking.. Because I want to show why I belive what I do.. This is one of the reasons suicide is a good thing for me.. Or some others I suppose... I am going to add an ex source on this but the site went down so i am going to use wayback machine.. sucks cause this was a good research tool to.. This site you can learn alot about NDE's."


If you want to know what happens after death, or any of that NDE stuff, well it won't be hard to do, just wait around a little after all we all have an appointment with death sooner or later, and its one appointment we can in no way miss, humans have short lifespan's anyways, so I can personally guarantee that you will eventually get your answer's.


I understand this feeling, this depression, and it reaches to the ends of the universe and beyond. It's more then just the lemmings jumping into the sea because of mass overpopulation thing, or stockbroker's jumping out of skyscrapers because of great depression's, or dust bowls, like it happened in the US in the 1930's. It's a thing embedded in to the very nature of reality it's really a force unto itself that manifests itself in everything through many paths "it's gravity and the spirit of gravity". It's a driving force, it's really something that will always be, as above and so below, we all revolve around it. For some it could be that they never really fit in that drives them to suicide, for some it's that they fit in but they want to see what is beyond. And for some it's the luck of the draw that they got in life, or even physical problems or pain that they live with. Whatever the case it's always been part of live, you cant escape it, but you can channel it, and that is what everybody is doing when they tell you how to deal with suicide or depression or how they dealt with it, or even of how they heard of someone who dealt with it. They are expressing there channeled experience with the forces of live, even the ones that are always around but we dont want to look to deeply into, eventually we all will have no choice but to look.

ok, so here's my break down of what happened in my life when i was comptiplating suicide. i was a 22 year old gang banger hooked on drugs. I wasn't happy with any thing. I felt a sense of entitlement and didnt take responsibility for anything I did, because I never got in trouble. I knew I wasn't a good person, but I thought my life was absolute zero. I never lived up to expectations and just felt trapped in my own mind. Like no mater what I did things just got worse.

that summer I was stabbed 3 times in the neck and i was declared dead 3 times but each time my heart started back up. I never saw a light. I just saw my body, up until I got to the hospital. Then I was some place else. It was dark and it was hell. I had to travel through 3 different places. each scenario was a deep rooted personal fear that I dont really care to get into. At the end I was told that this was my last chance, better get it right, got to get through it. learn to let go or i would be damned to relive it until I do got it right.

I woke up.. I never noticed life was so beautiful. Dont get me wrong when I awoke I was in a lot of pain and couldnt walk or talk to anything but I felt like a new born would I guess. I realized that life even at it's worse is beautiful. Your actions, thoughts, and words affect the world around you, but if you throw all that to the side, Life is beautiful. Everything is amazing, The wind on your face, The cycles of life, the people close to you, All of Gods work, it's all amazing it is all beautiful, like the beauty you find in your sunsets.

I still wander off the path at times, but I smoke bud and I meditate, and I always try to get back on my path.

I wish you luck in your journey. I pray that you find peace in the midst of the chaos with in your mind. Everything that sucks only makes you stronger. Live and Learn if your not alive then how's your soul going to learn?

From a spiritual point of view here is my opinion after reading several books by the worlds leading medium George Anderson.

Our true home is the spiritual world, all religions are different but all share a common link of a "God". This God exists in the spiritual world as an infinite light full of love and compassion (this is what people see as a bright light in NDE). We are not judged by any external force, but rather we judge our own lives. There is no hell.

We visit earth from time to time to learn lessons. Lessons which help us to advance in the spiritual world to higher levels of consciousness.

People that successfully commit suicide are not punished, infact they are treated as special cases that need healing. Suicides are met with great compassion and understanding and it is suggested that our time and cause of death is known before we are born. Every single death of every human reflects that their life missions and lessons have been completed and that it is time to return home, to our natural state.

I, myself have been struck down with mental illness over the past 24 months and suicide should not be seen as a cowardly act. Depression can be as devastating as cancer, and it is a shame most people don't view it as such.

Originally posted by ThichHeaded
I have a few question about this subject.. I am very much into suicides(I have tried to do it in the past a few times.) I wonder why people blame the suicide case when they succeed in their endeavor of suicide..

Why do people say the suicide was stupid, he could have thought of a better way. and so on and so forth, blaming the suicide for what happened.. I am curious to venture if anyone knows what its like to be on the edge of things to want to even contemplate that act? I am wondering why they wouldn't think to why the person would get to that point.. What made the person do what they did..
.

Great question... I can tell you all about how it feels if one loses his mother by suicide.. And the feeling I had afterwards were anger grief and braveness and respect towards my mother.. I finally could respect her after she had successfully succeeded her suicide after the third time..I had to face the fact that the mental pain she suffered couldn't be healed anymore. Knowing that I had to take some distance between me and her also because my child and her granddaughter were in the room when she yelled that she wanted to die very soon!
I saved her life two times and brought her to the hospital with an overdose sleeping pills. Its awe full to see your mother turned inside out by doctors to save her! And you think why does such a healthy beautiful middle age woman want to take her life, Knowing that there are billions of people are fighting daily to stay alive if its by sickness,war,or poverty.But mental sickness could be deadlier than any above described lines. We to acknowledge this worldwide. And if there was a clinic were we could brought her to were they practiced stadium ed suicides to say farewell. I would brought her to that place and visited it to the end. But that ethically not allowed in the world but it should be..

I believe that the spirit lives on in the afterlife and that she's in good hands. The thing I say this because I had one last contact with her on Ascension Day. That day I had to drive to my grieving stepfather who lived all those years with my mother. I thought he couldn't take it any more so I left quickly leaving my family beside.. We ate and talked that evening about my mother. When drove home and the night was falling and driving in the shimmering lights of the streetlights on the highway , I asked god if she was save.. The following happened after my question all the streetlights dimmed one by one ,one at the time right before my eyes .. four thy times in a row and when I came to the last streetlight pole it happened again that repeated four times. She was letting me know that she was save... And that she was watching over me!..

I don't think that suicidal people are cowards..I think they are brave to contemplate death. I only want to say to them please do not present your death in a terrible way to people who do not know who you. or didn't do you ever any harm. Do it quietly prepared and clean do not cause collateral damage!

But I sincerely hope you will find a way in live to go on and grow old... As my doctor recently said to me you are slowly dying... I scarcely answered how long do I have? He answered approximately eighty years or so!

Suicide = selfish act. I have lost many friends to suicide in my 5 years in the Marine Corps. along with friends of friends that couldn't handle life. Life is hard, people are mean, and love is the only answer. I get so angry sometimes when people justify killing themselves. We will all die someday, when? only our creator knows. We are all spirits on an amazing journey, we are all from the same creator, we shall find out someday, and I will wait, I'm not going to cut my time short.

You cannot control anything in the past or future, you can only control what is happening right this second. So live life in the moment, don't dwell on the past, and don't worry about the future, this too shall pass brothers and sisters.

Namaste

reply to post by ThichHeaded

Certainly, one of the most difficult of experiences ever to have to contend with.

But there is a quite brutal reality here which is not widely known because neither the Jewish, Christian, nor Muslim religious 'authorities'--nor their accomplices in the media--will allow it to be publicized.

What are the ultimate consequences of suicide?

That you will be 'raised from the dead' to live another life--or 'reborn' or 'reincarnated' (the specific word used makes no difference at all in this particular context)--when you will AGAIN have to face precisely the same kind of situation and AGAIN be given the opportunity to make another decision.

If, in fact, this is not already what has happened in the first place.

In other words, the fundamental illusion here is that suicide will provide an ESCAPE.

So, on the one hand, there should be compassion for those who are going through such intense suffering.

That suffering is not in any way unreal.

But, at the same time, there must be a realization of the reality of the situation: that there is no escape...

Except into another, subsequent life (or lives) of even more suffering.

Mi cha el

Originally posted by VonDoomen
suicide is cowardly and useless. Most people commit suicide to escape from a "harsh world". Well heres my deal, is your gonna kill yourself, you might as well be useful, and use it to help the world.

If you gonna kill yourself, do this-
Go to washington DC, and start a hunger strike in front of the capitol building, and wear a sign that says
"investigate the fed, for soon i'll be dead"

something along those lines,, you could atleast maybe help out the world a little bit.

lol dude I don't think anybody will care, or if the average american know's what the fed is. And it's likely they will just call the cops, put you in a box and pump you full of drugs, all while telling you they are there to healp you. Then after a while release you into the streets and proclaim you cured. Even if you were wanting to kill yourself, there are better ways. Though I am not saying to suicide in the first place, just that ain't a good plan.

reply to post by felonius


Ya, Felonius.. I'm happy you have such a good wife, and that you are there for her. It is very difficult to live in chronic pain, and having someone there for you helps very much. I bet you underestimate just how much you mean to your wife. Congrats on many happy years, and many more to come!

So I smoke am i committing suicide SLowly?

I see suicide as some form of distress that triggers humans and animals..But we forget that we are animals too.

It's a phenomenon nobody has been able to explain for sure. But Jatinga's mysterious annual ritual of migratory birds committing mass suicide is all set to become Assam's latest tourist attraction. Assam's tourism ministry is currently preparing a detailed development plan for this village, which is located in North Cachar Hill district, 330 km south of Guwahati. The village's interior setting and lack of proper infrastructure has been limiting the arrival of tourists, keen to witness the rare phenomenon of bird-suicides, that has baffled ornithologists for more than a century now. Read more: Assam plans to cash in on bird suicide village - The Times of India timesofindia.indiatimes.com...

Animals, too, experience a profound feeling of sadness when their play/hunt/sex partner dies. Those studying the behavior of wild and domestic animals come with an increasing number of cases proving that animals are capable of pure sorrow when they lose someone close to them.

Somehow, this behavior is linked to self-conscience, thus only "brainy" animals, like mammals and some birds, consciously commit suicide.

It is hard to say if animals commit suicide. An animal will not do this because of a sudden dread, or an excessive emotion. As they cannot ... speak, it's difficult to assess if there is a true suicide.

So are we gonna say that those suicidal birds and lions are cowards.. well you can try it but by the time that managed to find a way to bring the message to clear understanding to those animals, you probably are already dead of aging..

No I think there should be more research on what's the problem.. But then again look around what's happening in the world then we all know how we can solve the problem of suicidal s.

But I think that will never happen.. And it is still the survival of fittest!

there is nothing so bad in life that you can not get through it. suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem talk with someone.

I didn't read much of the OP and etc, but I got the jist of the post.

Anyway the Aftermath is the fact that you leave alot of ends that still need to be resolved. As in the funeral, calling friends and family to attend and also suicide has been much stated by I think the Catholic church as being sinful and they will be going to hell.

While im I guess half Christian, being I was bought up believing, and I do believe most the time... Ive been dealt a bad hand in life also... I still believe that suicide is an extreme course of action that should be of course discussed and talked too by helpful people. The fact is that it isn't because firstlyt he person who does it, happens to be dead and almost no one knew it would take place.

The second thing is that the person who contemplates this course of action usually does not wish to 'impede' their friends and family and to me that is just selfish. I know of hard times and all, however coming home to your loved one's suicide is not a pretty matter. Its aweful and there is absolutely no way the family/friends can consule or help the person since they have suicided.

People in suicidal situations should seek out help, for there are organizations in charge that will and do well in helping them.

I know its tough for these people, but its very tough too for their family members and friends also