American Doom!

www.teapartynationalism.com...

thisistheteaparty.com...

thinkprogress.org...

www.economist.com...

www.groundreport.com...

www.examiner.com...

www.naacp.org...

www.politicolnews.com...

reply to post by Jakes51


They can be voted out but the damage they do may not easily be taken away.

They want to repeal health care, that may remove CHILDREN from the health care roles and put millions back in jeopardy.

Obamas flimsy health care doesn’t do much but it does help many though IMO not enough.

I am not a wild man who needs to chill out as you say.

I deal with issues in the OP and look at my links below regarding the racism of the vaunted Tea party.

So can obama get elected out of being president?

Otherwise the whole charade is not worth my attention like srsly

reply to post by inforeal


I totally and violently disagree with you on this matter!! You are way off base here!!

Interesting post, and full of rhetoric, however, please bear with me and I will attempt to give a few arguments that are not mentioned.
The American Political system is not a perfect system and the problems that we face today are not just the products of just one of the parties involved, but of both of the parties combined. It is the problem of the citizens of the United States of America, who keep electing the same officials into office over and over, yet those same officials get to be arrogant in being in that position for so long. This was best demonstrated during the town hall meetings, when the citizens came to confront their duly elected representatives, and were insulted or ignored, or down right slandered in the process. For far too long, too many of the same party has been in control of the congress. This has led to where ideas that could come out, are often ignored, and far too many of the people who are suppose to be representing the people of this country have gone far too corrupt and lost touch with the very thing that matters, governing the country wisely. No one in DC is innocent and all of them have skeletons in their closets. The representatives with the good ideas and are not so corrupt can’t get their bills on the floor for even the courtesy of an open debate. You mentioned about the south, that they turned Republican after President Johnson signed the executive order to enforce civil rights. Well there are 2 sides to that story, and after all, it was the Democrats during that time frame that were enforcing the segregation between the African Americans and the rest of the population, so would not a people who were treated badly be entitled to change sides, especially after the other side abused and treated them badly? Now please forgive this next part, but after reading the rest of that statement it sounds suspiciously like that if the democrats are not re-elected to office, that there is not going to be reparations towards the African American community. Well that is how I perceive it, and please forgive if I have offended. You state that the Republican party is against the middle and lower class, all cause they support those who are rich, yet fail to mention that those who are rich, who have money are not sitting around with it under the beds, they are investing it into the stock markets, and into businesses that provide the jobs and incomes for the middle and lower class citizens. Any one with a large company, has to consider the cost of doing business, and if you will please bear with me I will get to that point. Put yourself in the shoes of a business owner, now you have a product that will see, however you have to consider the cost of the raw materials, the costs of the facilities and the cost of labor. It is the latter, the cost of labor that will often drive the final cost of the product, as all of that has to be accounted for. So here is the problem as it stands with doing business. You can pay a person 8 dollars an hour to produce a product, or you can pay a person 2 dollars an hour to make the same product, mind you that in addition to making money as is the goal, you probably have investors and the banks that are wanting repayment on the money they lent to you to do business, so which do you choose? Well as a business person you are going to try to save money in the production which means you go with the cost of 2 dollars an hour production than the 8, thus lowering the final price of the product and actually making a profit and paying back your lenders.
The Health Care Bill, that you mentioned. Ever read it, ever try to read it? It was a noble effort, yet as much good as it would do, don’t you find that the solution that was offered to lower the cost of health care was ignored by the politicians, by the very people who are driving the economy? And tell me if you have a budget of say 2000 dollars a month, would you spend 200,000? No. And do you think it is right that if you can not afford health insurance, that you can be fined and possibly end up with a felony record? After all what is the health care bill, a mandate that is clearly unconstitutional or a tax. Care to guess who gets to determine if what you have in the way of health insurance is adequate or not? The IRS, with the full mandate to take out money from your tax return and fine you if you do not hold the necessary coverage. So the American public was told it was not a tax, those who voted on it, could not tell you what was in it, and there are parts that are so questionable, we all see where this is going, government sponsored abortions. Yes that old topic is once again backed and now funded by the Tax payers, even if they do not support this medical procedure. And guess what, after all of that, in a court of law, while this was being challenged, and the good Democrats were being embarrassed by the largest companies out there, something about having to lay off thousands of employees to cover the costs and take close to a several billion dollar loss for the year to cover the costs, and all being told to appear before the Senate and give testimony on such, it came out that this new bill is: A Tax. That’s right in court it was proclaimed a tax, all from an administration that stated it would not raise taxes on anyone making less than 200 K a year.
Now that is just the starters, how about the excuse that is so commonly used: The other guy did it. Well it seems that both parties are guilty of that.
The Supreme Court ruling, did you read the decision or the case, did you read and understand why the Justices ruled the way that they did, or are you seeing what the President wants you to see? They did not make that ruling idly nor without good reason. Of all of the branches of the US federal government, the Judicial branch is the only one, by law, who has to justify each and every ruling in writing to explain why the decided and ruled the way they did. No other branch has to do that, not the executive and not the legislative branch.
When bills are so large that they can not be understood, when promises are made and not kept, when the same solutions that have failed, are kept going and or renewed, and the issues that are affecting this nation are ignored, all with the Democrats blessing and votes, and the common people are still hurting, what do you expect them to do? Take up arms against the federal government or to be civil and go to the polls and exercise the one means that they have to ensure their voice is heard and vote? I would say the latter.
As I stated before, the problems of today are not just the fault of either party, but of both and that we the people are also part of that problem by not voting, or caring. What the politicians are to blame, if anything is for taking a bad situation and exploiting it for their own ends and means. And the solution to this will lie with WE THE PEOPLE OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.

reply to post by inforeal


Forgive me again, but how can someone who is clearly of African descent, get elected in the United States of America, when so many people are racist? After all the population break down of the United States of America is very diverse and breaks down as follows:
Population break down as of 2005:
White: 65%
African American: 12.4%
Hispanic: 9.8%
Other: 4.9%
Asian: 4.5%
Mixed: 2.4%
Native American: 0.8%
Hawaiian or Pacific: 0.15%
So if all of the white people are racist, how did someone of African American descent get elected?
Are you stating that the grandmothers and grandfathers, and people who are of the middle and lower class racist? How is it that of all of the people in the US, that only those who are White, are often the ones you see working for minium wage at the start?

reply to post by sdcigarpig


Bottom line the Republicans are worst because of ISSUES not attitude or anything else.

All civilized countries in the world have national health care. It isn’t perfect BUT PEOPLE IN THOSE COUNTRIES DON’T DIE IN THE STREET!

The fact is ... is that it is the Republicans that are preventing a national health care plan in this country.

The fact is it is the Republicans who are most often helping ONLY the rich

They were the ones who stopped the recent [ though not at all strong enough] bill to lessen outsourcing of American jobs.

It is a Republican Supreme court that allows corporations to pollute the political system

Or Republicans who want to deny woman the right to choose

Lower the minimum wage

Privatize Social security


I could go on and on, but many [ through no fault of their own ] are blinded by the ALL POLITICS IS EVIL] when Cleary on most issues it is the Republican conservative ideologist who are for the rich at the expense of the poor and middle class.

That’s it, its not that complicated.

This is not nuclear physics

One group doesn’t give a dam about ordinary people

The other group gives a little

So what choice does a logical person have?

reply to post by sdcigarpig


Wow, who said all the white people were racists?
Not me.

I said some of the Tea Party were racists and that certain parts of the country still has problems with race.

reply to post by defcon5


Is it not reasonable to deduce that some in the south to some degree still are inimical to the interests of black people if they always vote against policies that black people consider important to them.

That doesn’t paint the whole south as bad by no stretch of the imagination

reply to post by inforeal


Once again into the fray that what is what may come out. You mention about the Supreme court decision on large corporations when it comes to elections, and have not done the research to use this. Care to ultimately what the case was about? Do you think it was about corporations involved in politics? No, that was not what the case was about. It was about a right in the first amendment, and the freedom of speech. The majority of the Justices did not want to curve the right of anyone or any organization from having the Freedom of Speech. That is what that case was about, the right to speak an opinion.
If all of the civilized countries have health care that is so great, can you answer why they come to the United States of America for treatment? Care to take a guess why? Yes they do have free health care, and yes they can get the medicines that they need, but most of the time there is a waiting list to see the doctor and people may not die on the streets, but what is the difference between sitting at home and waiting for your appointment and the street? Where procedures are limited by the cost? And have you seen the economic problems in those countries with inflation that is steadily growing, countries on the verge of collapse, and violent rioting, that those are our allies, what is going to happen when our enemies start down that road?
If current history serves anything, especially about the bills that are being stopped, have you read them? Do you know what is all in them? I took a look at a few, and guess what, care to guess what I found? Pork, special interest and all sorts of interesting things, not even related to the original bill. The best example was the defense spending bill. Oh they would tell you the Republicans hate the military, they killed the bill, but what was not stated, what was very quietly reported and it is in the bill itself as an amendment to the bill was a piece of legislation that was a means to backdoor amnesty for millions of illegal immigrants and an earmark. So can you explain, if this is a bill to fund the military and the defense department, what does illegal immigration have to do with such? That is the reality of the bills that are being passed through congress, that is why they are getting defeated. Not cause they do not want them, but cause of all of the excess baggage associated with them. And why do bills that are only just the bills and nothing more, seem to be getting passed easily through a congress that was majority democrat.
Privatizing Social Security: Let see about that one, ok, got it. Lets say for arguments sake you gave me 1 million dollars to hold on to you. I am to invest it and let it build interest, but then you come and say you need oh 100,000 for one thing and take that money out, and then another 500,000 for something else, yet still expect there to be the full 1 million. Well that is how congress treats Social Security, as a bypass to balance the budget. Social Security in the hands of the federal government is a bad idea cause they have essentially taken all of the money out, leaving IOU’s in its place, yet fails to refill the coffers once they have money again. Take that out of the hands of congress, that way it will be there for those who are putting into the system.
What have you got against the rich? They succeeded and worked hard to achieve all of that money and gave nothing back? Once again, you pick on the rich, what do you think that they are going to do? They are going to pull money out of a system that can ill afford to have anything tamper with it. Raise their taxes, and the stock market will suffer, and there will be more job loses, and more unemployment.
At least something is better than nothing. Keep the democrats who are in power there, and the country will go bankrupt in a few more years. The countries credit rating is starting to decline, and even the very people who have given this country a AAA rating is starting to give signs that we are going to drop in the rating, if the spending continues. And gee who has had the majority in power and could pass anything at any time these past 2 years? The democrats.

Since 1980 middle/lower class Americans have been voting against their economic self interest, flocking to the voting booths on the basis of conservative feel good wedge issues (from abortion to the latest, "the Constitution"), to elect politicians who, once in office, became beholden to corporations and to those who would drain the wealth of the middle class. "Some rob you with a six gun and some with a fountain pen."

When jobs went away, they were not replaced with any jobs to ensure the survival of an American economy in a 21st global economy. Instead, the American middle class economy became clip coupons, sell stuff on eBay, and become self employed as pool cleaners and dog walkers.

Just as the Southern "way of life" was destroyed with the Civil War (loss of economy based on slave labor) and again in the 1960's (racial separation), and the Yankee carpetbaggers swept in to "help" the South (resulting in the mistrust of govt), all middle class Americans have felt their way of life disappear and are finally angry with their carpetbagger politicians and business leaders.

Once again, however, they will vote against their economic self interest. Until politicians take not one penny of corporate money, refuse to vote on bills written by corporate lobbyists and refuse to work for corporations once out of office, American style corruption will reign, forcing the corporate boot heel on the heads of Americans.

I doubt any newly elected GOP official or leadership will do what is truly necessary to help America in the 21st century. We'll get more talk (as pols are wont to do) and lectures, continue our downward slide, placing blame on the victims.

reply to post by sdcigarpig


I am too tired now to get the sources to refute your points now but will return to them another time.

But I will point out it is false that people from other countries are coming here to get health care and that they are standing in line in their own countries. You could make that claim all you want but it isn’t true
patients.about.com...

Regarding the supreme court . . . it is true that the issue is over rights, so what, the ramifications, notwithstanding the intellectual excuse for it by the conservatives on the court, for preventing corporations from inundating our political system with secret money are daunting.

My own father was thrown out of the hospital half dead because he had no health care, so please don’t defend this awful in-human system to me.

I had to go around and break my balls just to get him care and he worked all his life and paid taxes without taking a dime of welfare.

I haven’t got anything against the rich. Have I said anything about doing any harm to rich people?

I just suggest they pay their share of taxes like we all do, and since they do make more than most it may be wise that they pay a little more. That doesn’t say we should gut them.

God bless them they are eating everyday and have good health care and at least security, good I don’t want to take that away from them at all. And some of them do invest and create jobs, but remember they also invest and destroy jobs often.

But they also get benefits from society as we all do. They need workers if they are business owners as much as we need jobs--one hand washes the other.

But do you think they aught to be paying CEO’s what they pay them in this country?

Originally posted by inforeal
reply to post by sdcigarpig

 

I am too tired now to get the sources to refute your points now but will return to them another time.

But I will point out it is false that people from other countries are coming here to get health care and that they are standing in line in their own countries. You could make that claim all you want but it isn’t true
patients.about.com...

As a person from an other country I can verify this.
American healthcare is just terrible, unless you are a soldier or politician or insanly rich.
I'll take what the french or the canadians have any day of the week.

reply to post by inforeal


You are saying that the demoliberals of late have done a good job? Give everybody a break. It is not the flavor of the year that is happening, it is removing people that have further destroyed USofA.

If there was a kick them all out button I am sure majority would push it, but there isnt, so thank god of all things pelosi is gone, too bad reid didnt get the boot as well, useless waste of flesh.

All I hear is "Blah, Blah, Blah, I have no idea what the hell I am talking about, Blah, Blah Blah".
congratulations, no star no flag. Keep it up

I found this like really amusing

newsarse.com...

:-)

the dems are in the white house, the dems control the senate, the repubs control the house....

I kind of see this as a good thing, maybe it will force them to come center stage and actually start finding some solutions to some of the problems, instead of just advancing their political agendas, regardless of what is going on in the country, or the world!!!

time for them to work together.