Global Warming is not only NOT a hoax, but it is about 10,000 times worst than your worst nightmare.

reply to post by mc_squared


MC, I would like to ask that you read the post above that I just wrote to Smurfy (the one just before this one). Click through the ESRL link and check out the methane spike at Svalbard. Crazy huh? Unfortunately it's looking like my assessment may be right!

What do you think?

Also, are you familiar with the research of Shakhova/Semilitov last summer on escaping Arctic methane? I linked to it in many of my posts in this thread but I'm not sure if you read them (afterall this thing is over 30 pages now!! lol)

Originally posted by 46ACE
Again with the taxes...
" why your electrical rates will necessarily skyrocket under my administration.."

I understand your mechanism here:

I just don't agree with the gubermint diddling with every aspect of life: it didn't work under the soviets 5 year plan and it doesn''t work here:

So you must want to do away with socialist programs like social security, medicare, the post office, public education, and on and on.

Let's also do away with minimum wage, the EPA, and all regulations for large corporations (essentially what conservatives want to do)

BUT it's ok to tell 2 men that they can't marry and it's okay for the government to tell women when they can and can't get an abortion (even if they are 12 years old and raped by their father).

Let's go ahead and teach creationism in schools while we're at it.....oh, and let's also make prayer mandatory in schools.....CHRISTIAN prayer that is!

I generally keep my cool, even when debating climate skeptics, but seriously conservatives kind of make me ill :-/

reply to post by dingleberrysalad


All I can say is thanks for taking the time to watch the video and read my links. If after that you are still not convinced, then all I can say is we'll have to agree to disagree.

Well I watched all the video but as soon as the guy mentioned Al Gore and Cap n Trade I knew it was the usual doom and gloom nonsense, man HAS NOT caused GW/Climate Change (GW/CC), period. Can someone explain how raising taxes is going to stop the planet heating up? How come the rest of the Solar System is heating up? Is it the CO2 from Earth propagating thru space affecting the rest of the planets, what nonsense, Al Gore's just looking to make money as we all know, doesn't he have companies set up to siphon hundreds of millions of dollars into his own pocket? How is that going to help? It's the hypocrisy of these w*****s that pisses me off, Gores house uses more gas and electric per month than the average person uses in a year yet he appears to be doing nothing to reduce his usage. Oh well rant over.

Originally posted by Chuffer
Well I watched all the video but as soon as the guy mentioned Al Gore and Cap n Trade I knew it was the usual doom and gloom nonsense, man HAS NOT caused GW/Climate Change (GW/CC), period. Can someone explain how raising taxes is going to stop the planet heating up? How come the rest of the Solar System is heating up? Is it the CO2 from Earth propagating thru space

affecting the rest of the planets, what nonsense, Al Gore's just looking to make money as we all know, doesn't he have companies set up to siphon hundreds of millions of dollars into his own pocket? How is that going to help? It's the hypocrisy of these w*****s that pisses me off, Gores house uses more gas and electric per month than the average person uses in a year yet he appears to be doing nothing to reduce his usage. Oh well rant over.

Incorrect:

www.skepticalscience.com...

As for Al Gore, global warming has absolutely nothing to do with how much electricity Al Gore uses or whether you like or respect him as a person. I know you will disagree, but you are not thinking rationally and objectively my friend.

I wouldn't suppose the biggest banks and hedge funds have anything to do with this?
I mean since the answer is to control all industrial output through trading carbon credits it's basically like trying to introduce a new currency on a global level - based on fear.
Global warming research is being done through the UN and socialist/elitist institutions to create a threat to institute a communistic new world order.
The rest of the solar system is heating up right along with the Earth.
It's like seeing a bridge fall then predicting a car will drive off it.
Hardly prognosticating.
Does that break it down?

Originally posted by Asktheanimals
I wouldn't suppose the biggest banks and hedge funds have anything to do with this?
I mean since the answer is to control all industrial output through trading carbon credits it's basically like trying to introduce a new currency on a global level - based on fear.
Global warming research is being done through the UN and socialist/elitist institutions to create a threat to institute a communistic new world order.
The rest of the solar system is heating up right along with the Earth.
It's like seeing a bridge fall then predicting a car will drive off it.
Hardly prognosticating.
Does that break it down?

Same argument, same debunking: www.skepticalscience.com...

As for GW research being done through the UN, yes the IPCC is doing research on global warming. But there are many MANY public and private institutions and universities that are also doing extensive research on GW. To say that GW is a hoax means that you must accept the idea that all of these thousands of people are on board with the conspiracy to "hoax" climate change.

It's the same irrational thinking that acquitted OJ Simpson. In order for him NOT to have been guilty, the entire LA police force would have had to have been in on the conspiracy to plant his blood at the scene, their blood and hair on his gloves, in his car and in his knit cap.

It's simply not rational thinking.

reply to post by The_Liberator


It's funny no matter how many times that myth gets debunked on this thread, every page another sheep or three comes along to tell us all about how every planet in the solar system is warming up.

reply to post by The_Liberator


Great now I'm depressed.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/f679475a61bd.png[/atsimg]

My first thoughts are that the skeptic in me (yes us warmists can still be skeptical sometimes! holy moly I just blew the minds of all the deniers) notes that part in the bottom left that says 'Preliminary Data shown in GRAY'. So I'm thinking (read: hoping!) that this is just an instrument error.

If you ask any of the deniers though they will tell you that this data is of course all corrupt because NOAA set up all their arctic methane monitoring stations next to pastures of flatulent cows, and this particular anomaly is just the result of taco night.

But seriously until we get some sort of official report/confirmation I think all we can do is reserve judgment and wait. Although it is interesting to note that Svalbard has already been an area of growing concern for scientists, and if you look at some of the other graphs from that station they look like they're functioning just fine:

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/6ee0ab5c506f.png[/atsimg]

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/f05043e96a3a.png[/atsimg]

This from the article you cited:

"This is alarming if one of the reasons for it is the release of methane from thawing permafrost and the Arctic sea bed.

If the cause is the release of methane from thawing permafrost and from the Arctic sea bed, then that is an alarming trend. That would give climate change a self-reinforcing effect, says Ellen Hambro, Director General of the Climate and Pollution Agency."

I agree we need to wait and see, but the fact that there are 3 "squares" (as opposed to just one) is worrisome. As far as I can tell, each individual square is an individual measurement.

From the ESRL site:

"Data shown may be measurements of air collected approximately weekly in glass containers and returned to GMD for analysis or daily averages from air sampled semi-continuously at a GMD baseline observatory."


Plus these quotes (which I just cut and pasted together so they may be a bit disjointed):

Experts say methane emissions from the Arctic have risen by almost one-third in just five years, and that sharply rising temperatures are to blame.

Scientists have recorded a massive spike in the amount of a powerful greenhouse gas seeping from Arctic permafrost, in a discovery that highlights the risks of a dangerous climate tipping point.

The discovery follows a string of reports from the region in recent years that previously frozen boggy soils are melting and releasing methane in greater quantities. Such Arctic soils currently lock away billions of tonnes of methane, a far more potent greenhouse gas than carbon dioxide, leading some scientists to describe melting permafrost as a ticking time bomb that could overwhelm efforts to tackle climate change.

They fear the warming caused by increased methane emissions will itself release yet more methane and lock the region into a destructive cycle that forces temperatures to rise faster than predicted.


Shakhova notes that Earth’s geological record indicates that atmospheric methane concentrations have varied between about .3 to .4 parts per million during cold periods to .6 to .7 parts per million during warm periods. Current average methane concentrations in the Arctic average about 1.85 parts per million, the highest in 400,000 years, she said. Concentrations above the East Siberian Arctic Shelf are even higher.

Shakhova and Semiletov warn that it is "highly possible for abrupt release at any time. That may cause a 12 time increase of modern atmospheric methane burden with consequent catastrophic greenhouse warming."

Sorry to depress you bud. Let's just hope this is a small regional burp of some kind....or maybe the scientists just ate a lot of beans before taking their samples, lol.

reply to post by The_Liberator

I agree we need to wait and see, but the fact that there are 3 "squares" (as opposed to just one) is worrisome. As far as I can tell, each individual square is an individual measurement.

Yeah it's also troubling that those squares seem to correlate with the end of the seasonal melting cycle. If it suddenly spiked up like that while on the way down it wouldn't really make any sense, but the way it suddenly leaped ahead makes it seem like maybe it penetrated to some new pocket or layer and indeed led to one of these "abrupt releases".

But who knows - maybe that kind of thing happens all the time, and these results haven't been standardized or averaged out yet, I dunno.

Do you watch these charts a lot - have you ever seen something like that before?

reply to post by mc_squared


Is there a chart showing the rise in temp against the hot air emmitted by Al Gore ?

second line

reply to post by mc_squared


I learned about the methane venting from the ESAS in early March. For a few months after that I did check that site (and a few others) regularly. But frankly nothing seemed to happen so I just got bored and stopped checking them. This is the first I have checked that site for a few months.

But I can tell you that when I WAS checking it regularly, I never saw anything even remotely close to what we are seeing at Svalbard.

I don't believe they adjust the 'squares' after the fact to make them appear more linear.

Another worrisome aspect is that, were methane to vent from the ESAS, we would expect it to show up in the Svalbard station first...

I agree though, it is very strange to have such a spike occur after the melt season has ended.

I found this:

From 2003 through 2008, they took annual research cruises throughout the shelf and sampled seawater at various depths and the air 10 meters above the ocean. In September 2006, they flew a helicopter over the same area, taking air samples at up to 2,000 meters in the atmosphere. In April 2007, they conducted a winter expedition on the sea ice.

They found that more than 80 percent of the deep water and greater than half of surface water had methane levels more than eight times that of normal seawater. In some areas, the saturation levels reached at least 250 times that of background levels in the summer and 1,400 times higher in the winter.

www.physorg.com...

I'm not sure what that means to tell you the truth. Why would methane levels be higher in the winter when temps are coldest? I'm looking into it and I'll let you know what I find.

reply to post by The_Liberator


global warming died on 19 November 2009

Global Warming is dead.

globalwarmingcon.blogspot.com...

Global Warming Caused by CO2 is a Gigantic Hoax

Be advised that this blog will cause massive cognitive dissonance in the true believers of global warming, have a place to lie down after reading. Water vapor is 95% of the greenhouse gases, CO2 is 3.618% and man made CO2 is even more miniscule, only 0.117%. CO2 molecules in the atmosphere are so diffuse that is impossible for CO2 to cause global warming. Repeat: CO2 can NOT cause warming.

reply to post by phishna
Fantastically informative blog. Kudos for writing and researching all of that yourself.

In the end, it comes down taxes. You can turn people against anything (even saving the planet) as long as you sell it to them under the "omgomgomgomg more taxes" umbrella. They won't admit it, but 90% of the people would rather have Bangladesh/Maldives flooded by climate change, if that means less taxes and they can still drive gas-guzzlers, than do anything about climate change.

Climate change doesn't care about patriotism or countries, it affects all of us...and the pseudo-science of the deniers is baffling.

Why does everyone on this site try to convince everyone else they're going to die somehow. First of all, who cares? and second of all, global warming is a hoax. Many people have stepped down from prestigious positions within the scientific community because they were getting sick of the corruption and I suppose if you're an insider who steps out of the limelight because you're tired of the lies, then I tend to agree that perhaps global warming is bull#.

Oh wait, two natural disasters in one year? It must be global warming.

I can say that the weather in my area is perfect because I change it on my own, so yes, the weather is changed through human activity but I didn't know this was news.

reply to post by The_Liberator


Same thing we always do Pinky.
Adapt to the changes and keep on going.

reply to post by ElectricUniverse


Oh I like that NCCD's.
Natural Climate Change Deniers.
Well played sir.

reply to post by The_Liberator


how can we agree to disagree when we agree? i'm not sure you read my post all the way through but i certainly didn't mean to say that i think it's not real.
climate change is obviously very real.
and there are other forces in our solar system that affect our climate as well.
but wouldn't make the threat much more serious? if there are other forces that are changing our climate then we would want to have as little impact as possible, even if our pollution is nothing to worry about(which it is) it's only making the problem worse, and could quite possibly be the proverbial "straw that broke the camel's back".
how can anyone argue with it? we have everything to gain and nothing to lose by acting now. in fact it's not to late to do something(or stop doing many things), we know how we can minimize the harm that will come, though we can't stop it completely. there is still time, and there is always room for hope, but the biggest problem that we face is that the very people responsible, who are the overwhelming majority, choose to bury their heads in the sand.
it's not that they deny the truth, mostly it's because they haven't heard the truth. your average joe is too concerned with the motions of day to day life to give a sh!t about such things. and our mega-corporations, who also happen to be our government, are the ones who want to rake in all the profits from the mindless masses, completely selfish and oblivious of the future of human civilization and even the future of their own children.
but like in the video, the majority of people are to shallow to see beyond their own line of sight. they fail to even try to think about what they are doing and what it means for the future. they ignore the problem until it is staring them in the face.