What do Anti-Feminists Really Want?

Originally posted by calstorm
This is in response to the PMs I have received in response to what I have posted on this thread.

In my first reply on this thread I stated that "I would like to take pride in making my house a home instead of feeling ashamed that I am somehow setting women back"

Then I receive a PM stating that I am doing just that. The very thing I want to be free from. How the heck is that liberating to women when they can't choose the kind of lifestyle they want with out being degraded?
I also received a PM in a round about way accusing me of saying that all woman should be sitting at home doing nothing but "Girly things"

What I would like to know is why exactly they have a problem with "girly" things. Are they implying that traditionally "masculine" things are superior?

My answer to that is simple. Whenever a male has the tiniest bit of an advantage over a female, the feminists are justified in making a huge fuss. But when it is the female that has the advantage, we should be "real men" and just shut the hell up. Screw that. Maybe I should be more specific and answer the specific questions.

1. The social structure - Men and woman are EQUAL.
2. Women's rights - No such thing, there are only rights. Rights apply to men and woman, EQUALLY.
3. Right to vote - See number three
4. The military - See number three

Originally posted by calstorm
So women who aren't sluts are sexually repressed?

...how did you get there?... my goodness...

Originally posted by calstorm
I want my sons to be able to get to go to the same self esteem boosting empowerment rallys at school that my daughter gets to go to.

...then push it with your school district... if your schools wont comply, then find alternative after-school programs - they're everywhere and have been for decades...

Originally posted by calstorm
demoralizing our men is actually harmful to women and will increase the abuse rates towards women.

...makes sense except for the "our" part, since you didnt say "our" women... maybe thats a cultural thang...

...cal, i dont know any demoralized men... i'm not saying they are not out there... just saying that, in nearly 60years, i've never met any and i worked in male dominated fields more often than not...

...i've run into tons of whiners though and that affliction rears its ugly head in both genders and every variation thereof... also, predators often feign victimhood...

...but back to your comment about demoralized males... in the interest of EQUALITY, it should go like this... one parent demoralizing the other parent not only harms the one being mistreated but it also damages the pysches of their male children and their female children and, therefore, perpetuates abusive relationships...

Originally posted by calstorm
I stated that "I would like to take pride in making my house a home instead of feeling ashamed that I am somehow setting women back"

Then I receive a PM stating that I am doing just that.

...you stated that you feel ashamed... thats you making that choice... what others say doesnt matter unless you want it too...

...btw, if your sons have low self-esteem, they could be picking it up from you... boys dont just imitate their dad... mom counts too...

Originally posted by calstorm
In the past women were expected to stay at home and take care of their family. Those who wanted careers or higher education were scorned.
Now the reverse is true.

...nope - thats just another exaggerated generalization... it might have been true of some people in some places but it was NEVER always true...

...no one ever talked down to any of my great grandmothers or my grandmothers and they were all born before 1900... no one ever talked down to my mom either (well, uh, before she started getting so frail due to alzheimers - she's different now but thats another story)... point is - they had healthy self-esteem - so, no one could hold them back...

Originally posted by calstorm
If we were truly liberated we would be free to live the lifestyle of our choosing with out risk of condemnation.

...you are free to live as you choose... it is 100% your choice to give validity to condemnations or not...

Originally posted by calstorm
What I find amusing is that my oppressors are not men but fellow women.

...fellow women?... well, no wonder they give you grief... check your thinking, sis... it could be that no one is oppressing you - except you...

reply to post by whaaa


Sorry, man, but you must work with some complete wrong 'uns.

I've had 5 or 6 jobs in my life, and not once have I ever seen an incident of physical sexual harrassment. I've occasionally seen both men and women make seemingly unwanted verbal advances, but nothing that the person on the receiving end can't brush off.

Wasn't it you who was going on about ''real men'' earlier ?

If I saw one of my male colleagues groping one of my female colleagues, then I'd punch his lights out.

Stuff the job. Do what's right.

Originally posted by Fiberx
I didn't say that men only have sex to procreate, i said they instinctively want THEIR seed to be passed on.

...if was instinctual, there would be no homosexual males and they've been around forever... while some do feel the need to pass along their genetics, many never feel that need... also, i've known quite a few straight men that refused to sire a child because our world is so messed up and over-populated that they felt it was irresponsible...

Originally posted by Fiberx
Actually if you take a purely evolutionary view of sex, you will see that it actually makes sense for men to mate with as many women as possible..It increases the likelihood of passing on his genes successfully.

...so, you're saying its natural for a man to want a harem, huh?... okay, i dont have an issue with that, as long as no one in his harem is there against their will - and - as long as that evolutionary view applies to females as well (cuz, yanno, we got genes to pass along too)...

Originally posted by Fiberx
In the modern world I personally feel that is best for both sexes to find a trust worthy partner and be monogamous.

...many people believe monogamy is unnatural... they're right for them... you're right for you... right?...

Originally posted by Sherlock Holmes


I've had 5 or 6 jobs in my life, and not once have I ever seen an incident of physical sexual harrassment. I've occasionally seen both men and women make seemingly unwanted verbal advances, but nothing that the person on the receiving end can't brush off.

Working in the entertainment industry is a different world than "jobs"

Originally posted by Aeons
I am in my mid thirties.

When I was an adult, the laws making it illegally for a man to rape his spouse were enacted.

Please tell me again.

And when was it a made a criminal offence for a wife to rape her husband ?

In fact, when did the law actually make it possible for a woman to be found guilty of raping a man ?

I think I can answer that one: it doesn't.

A woman who rapes a man can only be charged with the ''lesser'' offence of Sexual Assault, which commands a shorter maximum sentence than the crime of rape, which only a man can be legally guilty of.

This is in the UK, anyway.


So why do you seemingly want to play the victim card in terms of that particular law, while ignoring the fact that the rape laws are still unequal when it's a male victim of a female rape ?

Originally posted by whaaa
Working in the entertainment industry is a different world than "jobs"

Of course it's not different. It's a job, you're getting paid for it, and I'm sure workplace discrimination and harassment laws and protocol still apply.

Originally posted by Sherlock Holmes

Originally posted by whaaa
Working in the entertainment industry is a different world than "jobs"

Of course it's not different. It's a job, you're getting paid for it, and I'm sure workplace discrimination and harassment laws and protocol still apply.

You are an incredible debater, very articulate and intelligent but there are times you just don't know what you are talking about.

Originally posted by Wyn Hawks
...so, you're saying its natural for a man to want a harem, huh?... okay, i dont have an issue with that, as long as no one in his harem is there against their will - and - as long as that evolutionary view applies to females as well (cuz, yanno, we got genes to pass along too)...

And women have evolved to be sexually selective. They don't naturally want to pass on their genes to any Tom, Dick or Harry.

This is why promiscuous women are generally frowned upon by society. Sex equals babies, and a woman who puts herself about a bit has the potential to have an unwanted child by an unsuitable mate.

Men and women have evolved having different attitudes towards sex and sexual partners, and this is noticeable as even the sluttiest women aren't that promiscuous, when you consider that a woman ( as long as she's half-decent looking ) can have sex at anytime with most men she encounters.

Men, given the chance and availabilty of sex that a woman enjoys, would clock up 500+ sexual partners a year, if they could.

Yet I doubt too many women total this figure, unless they are ''professional'' sluts, or they suffer from immense self-esteem issues.

Originally posted by whaaa
You are an incredible debater, very articulate and intelligent but there are times you just don't know what you are talking about.

Thanks, I'll take that as a ''sort of'' compliment.

I fear, though, that this part of our debate will have to come to an end, as we can't get in to specifics about the nature of your work, because it's absolutely none of my business.

Originally posted by Sherlock Holmes

Originally posted by Aeons
I am in my mid thirties.

When I was an adult, the laws making it illegally for a man to rape his spouse were enacted.

Please tell me again.

And when was it a made a criminal offence for a wife to rape her husband ?

In fact, when did the law actually make it possible for a woman to be found guilty of raping a man ?

I think I can answer that one: it doesn't.

A woman who rapes a man can only be charged with the ''lesser'' offence of Sexual Assault, which commands a shorter maximum sentence than the crime of rape, which only a man can be legally guilty of.

This is in the UK, anyway.


So why do you seemingly want to play the victim card in terms of that particular law, while ignoring the fact that the rape laws are still unequal when it's a male victim of a female rape ?

This is a very dishonest variety of debate you are using.

However, if a man is raped by a woman, I would fully expect and condone her being tried to the fullest extent applied by the law.

That ought to get her jailed for a month or two - you know, just like most of the other rapists.

Originally posted by Aeons
This is a very dishonest variety of debate you are using.

It's not dishonest.

I'm arguing on the basis of legal equality.

You chose an archaic law that was still on the statute books until ridiculously recently, to claim that women were still being legally repressed in your lifetime.

I am pointing out that male perpetrators of rape are still treated more harshly by the law, than female perpetrators are.

Any examples of unjust laws that equate to gender inequality, should not be cherry-picked to suit the arguments of one particular gender, or one side of the argument.

Originally posted by Aeons
However, if a man is raped by a woman, I would fully expect and condone her being tried to the fullest extent applied by the law.

That ought to get her jailed for a month or two - you know, just like most of the other rapists.

I agree.

I think that all rapists should be incarcerated for the rest of their lives. Not out of vindictiveness, but because you can never be sure that they are truly ''rehabilitated''.

The chance of an innocent person falling victim to a re-offending rapist is too big a risk to take, just so that a convicted serious offender can enjoy their liberty.

reply to post by Sherlock Holmes


Whilst I completely agree with you that society should be goverened by meritocracy, it seems that you are implying that all Feminists believe in unfair measures in order to eradicate a patriarchal society? Is this correct or have I misunderstood you on this point?

Originally posted by Sherlock Holmes
reply to post by calstorm

 

You are correct.

The truth is that feminists aren't really interested in women's liberation, but are more interested in making everyone conform to their ideology of gender-supremacy, and that includes marginalising other women that don't conform to their bitter and warped viewpoint.

Genuine women's liberation would mean that a woman would be free to live her life as she wishes, including being a stay-at-home-mum or housewife, without fear of criticism or ostracisation.

People of both genders should be allowed to live their lives how they want, without prejudice, and without anyone else sticking their nose into their lifestyle, and telling them what each gender should, or shouldn't, do.

edit on 29-10-2010 by Sherlock Holmes because: (no reason given)

Woah, woah, WOAH. Speaking AS A FEMINIST, I think you'll find that actually, there are a hell of a lot of us who absolutely strive for gender equality and find the idea of a matriarchal society just as distasteful as patriarchy. OF COURSE both genders should be able to live their lives however they want. Why are you making such sweeping assumptions about a vast political group? Would you say that all Conservatives, or all Liberal groups have exactly the same politics? No! So show some grace towards the Feminists who believe in, and are doing their damndest to work for, gender equality instead of saddling us all with an outmoded stereotype!

reply to post by Wyn Hawks


We clearly come from two completely different worlds.
I personally know plenty of demoralized men. I saw it all the time working the the mental health industry and I see it in cases of men who have been charged with domestic violence, I see it in my neighbors and friends spouses and I have seen it here.
That is wonderful that your grandmothers never felt that way but I know from my own grandmothers stories that when she choose to divorce in 1948, become a career women and fight for women rights she was rejected by her church lost all family support and was given a hard time by her neighbors.
My sons have great self esteem thanks to me but no thanks to the school system (and there more than enough studies out there to prove that girls are favored over boys) and television. While I don't allow them to watch television I can't control what goes on when they are at their dads house.
When You get it from many different angles and you start avoid certain people because you are tired of listening to their "This is a woman world. Women need to get out of their homes and make something of themselves besides spit up rag blah blah blah" tirades, yes, it does affect you after a while.

But I am quite happy with my "women who have children should put them before their career attitude" and I don't intend to change that thank you very much.

@ Harmonicnights

What I would like to know is why exactly they have a problem with "girly" things. Are they implying that traditionally "masculine" things are superior?

I don't know you should ask the WOMEN who PM'd me. Maybe these women do think masculine things are superior and that is why they seem to have a problem with other women wanting to do "girly" things?"

I really cannot let this go,I just can't.

Equality is a myth,the sexes are different for a reason.

The reason is suppressed so you can be utilized more efficiently.

A lot of you fell for it,and genuinely believe it to be true that you are equal.

There is no equality,when people are undeniably "different".

You do understand that boys and girls are "different",yes?.

Who benefits from your believing you are equal?,how are you equal?.

Quit bein silly.

life is a lot simpler than you all allow it to be.

Originally posted by calstorm
If we were truly liberated we would be free to live the lifestyle of our choosing with out risk of condemnation.

We should be able to. I was a stay-at-home mom for the first two years of each of my children's lives because I chose to be. It amazed me how often other women would act like they felt sorry for me or like I was being forced into it when I chose to do it for multiple reasons. There's a persistent belief that women only become housewives if they are being repressed by their husbands, and while this may be true in some cases it certainly isn't true in all cases. The truth of it is that many of us who've chosen to stay home, whether it's for a short period of time like me or a longer period of time like you, make contributions to society that I would argue are just as important as those of women who work. None of us, whether we work or stay home, should be looked down upon for what we've chosen to do with our lives.