I suspect reality is as follows, and I want liberation from it

reply to post by schuyler


sorry, but if 40 years of study has led you to this analysis, i think you came up empty. i'd like to provide some advice to help you feel better.

your assertions in 1-4 are basically wishfull thinking. death is a factual event, and will provide answers for those questions better robert monroe or seth can. there are probabilities and possibilities, but factually, we only know what becomes of the body. since life is short, why not just wait and find out what death offers? that will free you from obsessive concerns and co-creating new age religions to cope with the stress.

as for our control over what happens, didnt your new age sources espouse "create your own reality" paradigms? in that world-view wouldnt it make sense that reality is co-created, by nature, oversoul, self/ego through all layers of reality? why not take responsibility. your oversoul in that world-view, would not be dominate. simply put, YOU would be the "physical expression" of your oversoul. how then should oversoul express itself in physical reality if not through your physical self, a self that uses ego-perception to create and manipulate through physical reality? is the cerebral cortex, the seat of ego, a cancerous growth on your brain, or is it part of your physical expression? instead of bemoaning the oversoul, wouldnt it be best to take your part in the creative expression of a multidemensional universe? take responsibility for creating more beauty in a world you see as sour, while enjoying the fact that your very being is sustained from within. why hate the oversoul. would you prefer that your ego take over deciding where each cell in your body goes in day to day function? you sir, are floating on the support and love of a universe larger than your ego. i say be grateful, not repulsed.

are homosapiens "bad" as you imply? or are our impulses acted out in ways that show a disregard for intellect and responsibility? is nature brutish and tooth and claw as you say? or is nature primarily creating and cooperative even while it eats itself. how would nature survive if it wasnt creative, if it wasnt a gestalt of cooperative mouths feeding? perhaps darwin has darkened your new age world view in ways your oversoul wouldnt agree with?

you like sex, but regard pian as unsavory. perhaps you would like to have monkey-sex forever, and nature can stagnate for you? why would a universe want new expression anyway? and who wouldnt want to live forever in a perfect, stagnant, painless, physical system? you say you are a victim. i say your ego has been blessed. buddhism says you need to let go of this battle, and take it all in stride. the beauty is yours to create or deny. dont blame the universe for what in 40 short years, an ego cannot understand. i dont mean to belittle your suffering, but i see it as self-indulgent nonetheless. i say dance and love before arthritis sets in. because there's too much whining going on already.

reply to post by schuyler


I was going to write a long post to you.

I think this sums it up a lot better than I can in text...



Lift your chin up and take the pounding that lifes going to hit you with because in the end its going to be worth it.

Life definitely sucks.

The Problem of Evil has never been "solved.

I'm actually a bit surprised that so few rationalists have responded! The New Age reincarnationists are in the huge majority so far. Ah, what can we do...?

Here's what we know: We're born. We live. There is joy, there is suffering. We die.

And no one really knows what happens after that. Period!

Let's use a bit of logic. If we really did KNOW, and our destiny was rosy, most of us would check-out ASAP. On the other hand, if we thought that things might get "worse", we would tend to try and live, with all our might.

Which of the above two situations do we actually see reflected in human behavior?

The SECOND one, at least when confronted with a particular moment of decision. Whether we are deluded, or not, somehow we collectively seem to "suspect" that the afterlife may not be as popularly portrayed. NDE's? Bright Light? BS! What about the BAD ones?

I recall reading about the MAJORITY of NDE's that were very negative, when the examined population focused on the "unsuccessful" suicides. They lived, and yet came back telling bad stories of "beyond".

Sure, counter these, with the popular TV notions of everybody going into the Light.

Me? Sorry, NOT ENOUGH EVIDENCE.

AND YET, as Thermo Klein mentioned earlier (I gave you your star!) with his Albert Camus quote:

"There is but one truly serious philosophical problem and that is suicide. Judging whether life is or is not worth living amounts to answering the fundamental question of philosophy."

SO, suicide does indeed figure into this, as the OP seems to realize.

But we often miss this truth, because we fail to see the many "degrees" of suicide that we all partake in, to some extent or another.

Self-destructive behavior, drugs, alcohol, abusive relationships, etc. We're all LIVING "degrees of Death", as it approaches, faster, or slower.

Several people I know have committed suicide in the past few weeks. Must be "synchronicity"? Am I judgmental? Yes, and no. My immediate gut reaction is, COWARDS! But knowing of some of the underlying issues, it is vastly more complicated. Each made a decision, for better, or worse. Those they leave behind? Perhaps we all gain, in some small way, from the apparent "loss", as we take in their experiences, and continue to evaluate our own situations.

Socrates, the renowned Wise Man of ancient Greece, realized he knew NOTHING. When he died, by his own hand (for "free speech", or was it more than just this?), the whole world seems to have given him a nod. We all understand, at some level, that his "solution", while subject to all the usual criticism, makes "sense". It is the ultimate "protest"...Or is it?

And then came Christianity!! Suicide took a back seat to the most heinous crime imaginable, "deicide". Finally, humanity could indulge in a sort of "revenge" against their "creator". Kill him, "Crucify him!!" All of us say this very thing, day in, and day out, if we are honest. "Whoever" is responsible for this mess...well frankly, crucifixion is too good for him! This alone probably accounts for the popularity of this religion over the years. It does answer some deep need we all have, to strike back at our perceived tormentor. In justice, we would wish to do no less.

Good luck OP!

JR

reply to post by JR MacBeth
Life sucks, sorry to bad.
People are so selfish.
Life is what you make it, I myself don't have anything it seems except a bunch of people whining, about how bad their life is.
It will most likely become what some would call worse.
I try tell help people but they just don't get it.

I'm not going to say to much more about this, but yous that don't get. I will try and explain.

It's about being a good person, and having a faith in knowing you are a good person, you can feel good about yourself and at the same time feel good about others, even if they are not so good.

Now that you are good you are a light in the darkness for those who are still lost, and do not know or relize the Truth that is before them.

If you remain a false thing, you will continue to stumble thru life with out any direction.

It is writen that you must first fear the Creator, not for what will be done to you on earth, nor for what will be done to you after you leave this earth, but simply because The Creator is greater in power that the entire Universe combined.

You also need to Love The Creator as a Son or Daughter Loves their Father.

You also need to Praise The Creator, but that would go with giving credit where credit is due, in this instant it is fully due.

This is all I can say, but if you want a better happier life, do these things, you will be well rewarded

You might say you do not understand, understand the Truth of the Creator is before you, grasp hold of it and never let go, for the Father, Mother, Lord, Creator will be with you in everything you do

I am not a religulous freak, I am a realist, but have I been Graced to be touched by Creation more than once.
I did not like the nothing, when I was once there , there was nothing there, just me and nothing, that's when I cried no Lord let there be something. Something is always better than nothing.

I am done with this, any of you who are lost, if you ever need a place to stand, I give you a place, the undeniable Truth that is before you and is writen thru out this Universe. By The Creators hand.

How's that song go don't worry, be happy.

Don't miss the boat, you may find you have, Very Powerful Friends in Very High Places.

Originally posted by ShnogTrip
If reincarnation is real and a god exists, then maybe the purpose of it is for us to experience all of god's creation. Maybe our creator can't experience it like we can and the only way he can is through us. Maybe the purpose of us is to allow our creator to understand himself or his creation. Maybe we're being used as a mirror. We are the only current beings that we know of that can learn and understand how the universe works. Maybe once we've experienced and learned everything then our job will be complete and the cycle will end.

How many times should god experience the raping of a girl?
How many times should god experience the killing of innocent people?
How many times should god experience the feeling of hunger, no shelter...?
And all those new age thards who tell people god is experiencing trough us this realm we live in. Really that's BS.

How much time does god need to fully understand the meaning of suffering, evil? Trough so called reincarnations, if reincarnation exist the horrible thing about that is: each and every time we reincarnate into this world we forget everything we learned in our past lives, screw that!

God has no reason to experience suffering. He doesnt need it, god is universe. Because in our core we know everything we should know. But because of neural linquistic programming (NLP, mindcontrol trough various means) we forget who we are.
Our enemy is a parasite with great power, they go by different names: Lucifer, Archons, etc. Not only do they control what happens in this fysical world but also the world beyond the fysical. And when you die and encounter one of those beings telling you with some BS story, you need to reincarnate AGAIN! Just to maintain you in a state of forgetfullnes and fear. And they are doing a very good job in deceiving souls especialy when they use their false love emitting feelings.

Here is a very Interesting docu people need to watch this:
Please watch them in total especialy the first video link before judging...

www.youtube.com...

www.youtube.com...

www.youtube.com...

www.youtube.com...

There are more PHASE video series just look them up at youtube.

Originally posted by Soundwave

Originally posted by ShnogTrip
If reincarnation is real and a god exists, then maybe the purpose of it is for us to experience all of god's creation. Maybe our creator can't experience it like we can and the only way he can is through us. Maybe the purpose of us is to allow our creator to understand himself or his creation. Maybe we're being used as a mirror. We are the only current beings that we know of that can learn and understand how the universe works. Maybe once we've experienced and learned everything then our job will be complete and the cycle will end.

How many times should god experience the raping of a girl?
How many times should god experience the killing of innocent people?
How many times should god experience the feeling of hunger, no shelter...?
And all those new age thards who tell people god is experiencing trough us this realm we live in. Really that's BS.

How much time does god need to fully understand the meaning of suffering, evil? Trough so called reincarnations, if reincarnation exist the horrible thing about that is: each and every time we reincarnate into this world we forget everything we learned in our past lives, screw that!

God has no reason to experience suffering. He doesnt need it, god is universe. Because in our core we know everything we should know. But because of neural linquistic programming (NLP, mindcontrol trough various means) we forget who we are.
Our enemy is a parasite with great power, they go by different names: Lucifer, Archons, etc. Not only do they control what happens in this fysical world but also the world beyond the fysical. And when you die and encounter one of those beings telling you with some BS story, you need to reincarnate AGAIN! Just to maintain you in a state of forgetfullnes and fear. And they are doing a very good job in deceiving souls especialy when they use their false love emitting feelings.

Here is a very Interesting docu people need to watch this:
Please watch them in total especialy the first video link before judging...

www.youtube.com...

www.youtube.com...

www.youtube.com...

www.youtube.com...

There are more PHASE video series just look them up at youtube.

edit on 22-10-2010 by Soundwave because: (no reason given)

edit on 22-10-2010 by Soundwave because: (no reason given)

I fully agree with your point about the amount of suffering that goes on in this world being unnecessary. Unimaginable suffering has occurred and continues to occur. I read about a murderer who enjoyed watching the eyes of children fade away as he choked them to death. The fact that this is even allowed as a possibility I think says a lot about whoever is running the show, if there is anyone running it.

I find the feeling non-rationalists view on life to be a bit bizarre to say the least.

There are so many on this site. So many that are naive, idealistic, totally lost in their beliefs, and without a clue that their continued state of ignorance is one of the most powerful evils this world has ever known.

Still, I do my best to respect other people's opinions and realize that most are simply not wired and/or capable to break through the barriers of their own imagination.

There comes a point when a human being is supposed to grow up and rid their minds of this foolishness, but it seems so many are still incapable of such a feat.

This is why the world is as it is. Instead of focusing on what is, so many choose to focus on what they really wish were so.

Phuk it. Death is inevitable. Get the $%^&* over it already. It's not about you, selfish ignorants. It's about what you can contribute towards the progression of our species and life in general.

Wow. . .I've off reading this thread for so long. I am absolutely glad that I read that someone else in the world took all that time to type what I've been taught since I was a child. It's time for the world to know the truth. . .that being that no thing you thought you knew is. Everything they taught us to deny was that for which we were supposed to seek. Moreover, all the places you thought you forgot having visited, remember you.

reply to post by googolplex


Beautiful post brother, peace.

I was going to reply to people individually but would take far to long.

To the rationalists/ nihilists out there, is it conceivable that one of the major reasons that the world is in the state that it is..

Because people believe they only get one life?

Why the hell should I be concerned if people in Africa are suffering?, they don't belong to my tribe. How the hell does easing their suffering benefit me or my family and close friends? Life is too short to be concerned about global issues, hell its to short to be concerned about anything outside my little bubble.

Because they feel they are not accountable?

Hmm my child is short of food, that family next door is hording food, I think I will go take the food by force if needed. Hell their shelter is better than mine I think ill take that also.

Because they believe there is no consequence to their actions?

What would prevent people exacting their own justice? It doesn't matter what I do or who I do it to, if I want sex I shall just overpower someone weaker.

Because they believe that the propagation of their genetic code is the most important thing their is?

Look at any other pack animal social structure and that is how we would be.

I know a response would be 'We have laws and a police force' but what are those laws based on? Where did they come from? From ethics and ethics came from? From spiritual/religious philosophy.

I read this a while ago in New Scientist, should appeal to some Evolution of Religion

Ok now onto us religious/spiritual folk

We do need to take responsibility for the state we now find the world in. We are after all the ones that have allowed it to happen.

We all have our individual moral guidelines laid down by our respective religion yet we fail to act on them.
We are quick to judge others when the only person we should be judging is ourself.
We say how it should be, then fail to lead by example.
We preach totorance then are intolerant when someone elses view doesnt match ours.
We become preoccupied with each others differances rather than focusing on what we have in common.

How many of us stand up to be counted when things go bad, how many of us hide behind words and rhetoric.

reply to post by schuyler


no truer words have ever been said s+f. I want out too, I want more than this existence. I see the cycle we are stuck in and I want to be free, where do I sign up? this is a true spiritual, cosmic revolution but I don't think we can do much with out help. we have been captive for so long. we need to send a signal to deep inner or outer space. the message should be something like this, "if there is any benevolent universally conscious beings out there, we are being held against our collective will. we seek assistance in regaining all of our freedoms, our dna has been manipulated, we are not alone, never alone. please free us from this oppressive regime. we only want to evolve past the confines of this prison planet. we want to join the galactic community we need and want our freedoms which we have lost please help us"

reply to post by gaurdian2012
From Aeotheosis
A Journey on the Left Hand Path
The Gnostic Lucifer
Prison Planet?

One notable version of this Gnostic cosmology states that we are to escape this prison. It states that when we die, our spirit rises through the planes in an attempt to reunite with GMH. On the way there it gets trapped by the Demi-Urge and Archons, stripped of it's memories and sent back down into matter. The way out of this is to attain Gnosis, which will endow the Gnostic with the Knowledge that she or he has the power to overcome these Archons and how to do it. This is similar to popular Buddhist thought, where the object is to escape the physical plane of existence. In Tibetan Buddhism, they call this Liberation Through Clear Seeing in the Bardo (Bardo is the "in-between" state after physical death.) However, in Buddhism we can also see a parallel to the earlier mentioned Gnostic goal of overcoming the Demi-Urge not to escape the physical world, but to perfect/repair it. This comes in the form of the Bodhisattva ideal and in the perfect city of Shambhala.

The Bodhisattva vows to continue to reincarnate in a physical vehicle until every sentient being has been enlightened. Shambhala is a perfect city hidden somewhere in the Himalayan mountains. If you work at it, some day you will be reincarnated there. The story of Shambala is also apocalyptic. At some future time, a malevolent warlord will gain knowledge enough to find and invade Shambalah. A true black-magic practitioner and incarnation of an Archon, if not the Chief Archon. This figure also calls to mind the "Anti-Christ." All hell breaks loose and a full world war occurs. Eventually, the powers of Good win out and Shambhala is established in the world as a whole. This should sound familiar in many ways to those who have read the book of Revelations in the Christian New Testament. Shambalah to me, represents the same thing as the New Jerusalem in that book. The whole cosmology can be summarized in four stages: Unconscious Unity ("when all was formless and void"), Unconscious Separation (after creation and still in the "Garden of Eden"), Conscious Separation (After "The Fall") and finally Conscious Unity ("The New Jerusalem.")

The key of Solomon: Book 1

O LORD of Heaven and of Earth, before Thee do I confess my sins, and lament them, cast down and humbled in Thy presence. For I have sinned before Thee by pride, avarice, and boundless desire of honours and riches; by idleness, gluttony, greed, debauchery, and drunkenness; because I have offended Thee by all kinds of sins of the flesh, adulteries, and pollutions, which I have committed myself, and consented that others should commit; by sacrilege, thefts, rapine, violation, and homicide; by the evil use I have made of my possessions, by my prodigality, by the sins which I have committed against Hope and Charity, by my evil advice, flatteries, bribes, and the ill distribution which I have made of the goods of which I have been possessed; by repulsing and maltreating the poor, in the distribution which I have made of the goods committed to my charge, by afflicting those over whom I have been set in authority, by not visiting the prisoners, by depriving the dead of burial, by not receiving the poor, by neither feeding the hungry nor giving drink to the thirsty, by never keeping the Sabbath and the other feasts, by not living chastely and piously on those days, by the easy consent which I have given to those who incited me to evil deeds, by injuring instead of aiding those who demanded help from me, by refusing to give ear unto the cry of the poor, by not respecting the aged, by not keeping my word, by disobedience to my parents, by ingratitude towards those from whom I have received kindness, by indulgence in sensual pleasures, by irreverent behaviour in the Temple of God, by unseemly gestures thereat, by entering therein without reverence, by vain and unprofitable discourse when there, by despising the sacred vessels of the temple, by turning the holy Ceremonies into ridicule, by touching and eating the sacred bread with impure lips and with profane hands, and by the neglect of my prayers and adorations.

I detest also the crimes which I have committed by evil thoughts, vain and impure meditations, false suspicions, and rash judgments; by

the evil consent which I have readily given unto the advice of the wicked, by lust of impure and sensual pleasures; by my idle words, my lies, and my deceit; by my false vows in various ways; and by my continual slander and calumny.

I detest also the crimes which I have committed within; the treachery and discord which I have incited; my curiosity, greed, false speaking, violence, malediction, murmurs, blasphemies, vain words, insults, dissimulations; my sins against God by the transgression of the ten commandments, by neglect of my duties and obligations, and by want of love towards God and towards my neighbour.

Furthermore, I hate the sins which I have committed in all my senses, by sight, by hearing, by taste, by smell, and by touch, in every way that human weakness can offend the Creator; by my carnal thoughts, deeds, and meditations.

In which I humbly confess that I have sinned, and recognise myself as being in the sight of God the most criminal of all men.

I accuse myself before Thee, O God, and I adore Thee with all humility. O ye, Holy Angels, and ye, Children of God, in your presence I publish my sins, so that mine Enemy may have no advantage over me, and may not be able to reproach me at the last day; that he may not be able to say that I have concealed my sins, and that 1 be not then accused in the presence of the Lord; but, on the contrary, that on my account there may be joy in Heaven, as over the just who have confessed their sins in thy presence.

O Most Mighty and All Powerful Father, grant through Thine unbounded Mercy that I may both see and know all the Spirits which I invoke, so that by their means I may see my will and desire accomplished, by Thy Sovereign grandeur, and by Thine Ineffable and Eternal Glory, Thou Who art and Who wilt be for ever the Pure and Ineffable Father of All.

The Confession having been finished with great humility, and with the inward feeling of the heart, the Master will recite the following prayer:--

PRAYER.
O Lord All Powerful, Eternal God and Father of all Creatures, shed upon me the Divine Influence of Thy Mercy, for I am Thy Creature. I beseech Thee to defend me from mine Enemies, and to confirm in me true and steadfast faith.

O Lord, I commit my Body and my Soul unto Thee, seeing I put my trust in none beside Thee; it is on Thee alone that I rely; O Lord my God aid me; O Lord hear me in the day and hour wherein I shall invoke Thee. I pray Thee by Thy Mercy not to put me in oblivion, nor to remove me from Thee. O Lord be Thou my succour, Thou Who art the God of my salvation. O Lord make me a new heart according unto Thy loving Kindness. These, O Lord, are the gifts which I await from Thee, O my God and my Master, Thou Who livest and reignest unto the Ages of the Ages. Amen.

O Lord God the All Powerful One, Who hast formed unto Thyself great and Ineffable Wisdom, and Co-eternal with Thyself before the countless Ages; Thou Who in the Birth of Time hast created the Heavens, and the Earth, the Sea, and things that they contain; Thou Who hast vivified all things by the Breath of Thy Mouth, I praise Thee, I bless Thee, I adore Thee, and I glorify Thee. Be Thou propitious unto me who am but a miserable sinner, and despise me not; save me and succour me) even me the work of Thine hands. I conjure and entreat Thee by Thy Holy Name to banish from my Spirit the darkness of Ignorance, and to enlighten me with the Fire of Thy Wisdom; take away from me all evil desires, and let not my speech be as that of the foolish. O Thou, God the Living One, Whose Glory, Honour, and Kingdom shall extend unto the Ages of the Ages. Amen.

reply to post by googolplex

Life sucks, sorry to bad. People are so selfish. Life is what you make it, I myself don't have anything it seems except a bunch of people whining, about how bad their life is. It will most likely become what some would call worse.

Forgive me if I misunderstand you, but from what I can see, you're not alone in rendering this verdict. Sure, the OP sounds like he's "whining", and in my "life sucks" summary, I acknowledged the truth in what he/she feels.

Thankfully, most others posting here seem to agree that the OP is not merely "whining" at all. If you read through it, it's clear there has been some long, hard thinking that finally brought him/her to the conclusion.

For all we know, the OP may be quite "happy" in the usual, dare I say "materialist" ways, perhaps there are friends and family, good health, etc. NONE of this would necessarily conflict with a seemingly rational conclusion, based on evidence examined.

We could perhaps live in another world, where things are all much "better", for the sake of illustration, maybe we could call it a "Utopia", and yet, everything the OP speaks of might still be there, lurking behind the laughs, and the moments of joy. For those sensitive enough to get past the surface, I would submit that there is a whole lot of truth, in spite of it being so causally brushed off as "whining" by a minority posting here, who seem to be missing the point, IMO.

I quoted Camus, as did someone before me. There was a time when I did not "like" Albert Camus, and yet, he grew on me. As I got older, he started to make more sense! But he isn't really unique, and he says nothing all that new. This issue, of whether life is worth living, against the grinding background of massive unnecessary evil, has been recognized for millennia. And no, it isn't solved by trite religionism, not so far anyway.

Is life really "what you make it"? Yes, and no. To focus on only one side is to miss the fullness of our collective experience. You might tell the drug addict to stop whining, and make his life better, but professionals who deal with these folks will tell you that your preaching is simply naive. And even if you are Mother Teresa, you can take the person out of the Calcutta gutter, and show them love, but I doubt she ever preached at them the way some posting here seem inclined to do. Probably because some realize there is a much bigger picture.

I think anyone who is being true to themselves, even the "happiest" person we could imagine, can one day open their eyes and see the very same things the OP has laid out. I might even add, perhaps you can be "happy", and still want out of this mess.

JR

We have been told by the ancient wise men, Moses, Buddha, Jesus, Muhammad, and many others that this world is evil. They have prescribed a methodology to get out of it, but unfortunately the evil nature of the world itself lends has allowed for what they taught to be distorted beyond recognition.

Read my Book and you will have the explanation of why the world is the way it is and how in time or out of time there will be a good ending for all.

www.ccbpublishing.com...

Blurb:

The Ellipse: The Fall and Rise of the Human Soul, Secrets of the Cosmos describes the cosmic laws of the universe ruling the reality of the human experience and the destiny of humanity. It is an in depth study of the spiritual science that is the source of all religion, and the cause of the human condition.

This is the real Matrix.

The term ellipse which means imperfect circle, as opposed to the perfect circle, is the updated metaphor that replaces the traditional concepts of God and the devil, and good and evil as the human race evolves out of the age of mythology to the era of the merging of science and spirituality.

This spiritual saga describes the inner and outer soul of the universe, the apocalypse, and the destiny of the human race. Delving deeper than any metaphysical writer of the past or present, the book reveals new insights about the fall of man and the soul’s journey to its ultimate destiny in unraveling the mysteries of its existence. It also clarifies pervasive distortions and misconceptions within religion and metaphysics.

Zakariyya Ishaq, a writer, researcher in mythology, and practitioner of Integral Metaphysics, is a thirty year seeker of esoteric knowledge, and a student in the wisdom traditions of Sufism, Islam, Yoga, Buddhism, Taoism, Kabbalah, Christian Gnosticism, and Hermetic Science. Having drunk deep at the ocean of mystical knowledge he reveals the secrets of the cosmos in The Ellipse that answers many of the age old questions that have challenged the understanding of believers in God, philosophers, and mystical seekers by exploring these topics: 1) The essence of man, 2) The origin of evil and suffering, 3) The end of evil and suffering, 4) A definition of God, 5) The reality of creation, 6) The nature of the soul, 7) The burden of the apocalypse, 8) A new understanding of the Jesus mystery, and 9) The destiny of humankind

reply to post by JR MacBeth
Yes, I should probably just be quite myself, I do know this one fellow who has been crippled all his life, never knowing what it is to run, jump, swim all the things people take for granted, but this fellow never complains, or says a word that I see. He laugh's and goes on with his life, even if the week before they said he would die.

As I said I should quit harping on this, but I doubt that Jesus would think much of what is being said, as he hung on the cross to bare the sins of others.

A lot people do not believe in the Christ or other Bible stories, the Christ is some times called the second Adam, in that he returned the sprite of the Creator to man. In other words as Adam had fallen before the Creator, the Christ proved the man could stand in the pure Truth, before the Creator. He being the example to follow, if we are to over come this existance, we all have our crosses to bare.

The Earth sometimes seems a dirty nasty thing, with dirty nasty people, all this is to change, as the secrects of the Creator become known.

If you can align self with the Creator, it is easy to face what some would call oblivion, with a smile.

I remember one story of a guy in WWII on the battle feild, he was saying "this is really going to be something, this is really going to be something" the the guy with him said what are you talking about, the guys then said "dieing", a few minute later he was dead, but he kind of looked at it as a adventure, not with fear.

You weren't forced to incarnate here, you obviously incarnated to facilitate the development of your being. You had a choice in everything from the body you incarnated in, to the problems and experiences you've been faced with.

I've been getting a few U2Us and though I can't share them with you because of ATS T&C I think I can fairly give you a paraphrase of what I'm getting.

Several people have suggested that my generalities lack specifics, but if I hop over onto their web site they can set me straight and help me out. (I think soliciting is against T&C as well, but what the hey...)

My answer: I doubt it. I don't have any faith that your understanding of life, the universe, and everything is any greater than my own. You may be setting yourself up as some sort of guru, but forgive me for not buying it. I do not ascribe to a particular viewpoint, no matter how elaborate people have made it. I liken describing reality as like the blind men all trying to desribe an elephant. Some people have grabbed onto the trunk and are dead certain they now understand "elephant" is long and tubular. Others grab an ear and describe it as flappy and flat. Neither has any idea what an elephant looks like.

There is an interesting story in a fairly old book, "The Dancing Wu-Li Masters" that came out a few years after Capra's "The Tao of Physics." In it the author describes the discovery of what I remember (It's been awhile) as "The Force" where adherents, by ascribing to a particular method, could experience "The Force" as an energy. But the adherents soon began ascribing certain rituals you had to do to get there, then rules and interpretations began to creep in until "The Force" was lost through creeping dogma and detail that had nothing to do with the original experience. You see that kind of thing a lot in the answers on this thread, where many people have laid down their interpretation of reality as taught by this or that tradition. You see also a lot of definituive statements like, "When you die, your soul turns green, period." My answer to that is: How do you know? And that your Mommy told you is not good enough, sorry.

That does not mean I discount personal experiences. Some people have said, well, I've had this personal experience, so now I know, without a doubt, what reality is because I've been there. I don't think so, myself. You've had one or more personal experiences that you interpret your way. that's all. If you have an NDE and see Jesus, then come back and say, "See, I told you Jesus was real!" that doesn't really address the issue. In my view, you saw what you wanted or were conditioned to see.

The answer for me is to not become embroiled in a particular philosophy of reality. I appreciate the deep traditions that have existed for thousands of years, but complexity and tenure do not equal wisdom. Christianity, Judaism, Hinduism, Buddhism, Taoism, etc. have all been around a long time and are quite complex. Perhaps some of them approach Truth more closely than others. I don't know one way or another and I would submit that adherents to these traditions don't know either; they've just convinced themselves to follow a certain path.

So, given my original post, which discussed my problem with certainty, I'm surprised at the number fo replies that offer a certain solution along with offers to help teach my poor naive being all about reality. Given my advanced age--I'm probably older than 95% of people here--that's kind of amusing. What makes you think you're in a position to teach me or others anything at all? I'm much more likely to want a dialog between people who are equally as uncrtain as I am. Perhaps we can share the hubris between us.

Mine is one of resistance. I do not approve of what I think is going on. I would say that the evidence suggests we don't have a benevolent all-loving Creator urging us to progress. I'm suspecting more of a nerdy teen with a joystick enjoying causing explosions and not really caring what his avatars think about it. My aim is to turn this around and stop this nonsense.

Do I actually believe that one person is capable of taking on the known Universe and actually make a difference? It seems unlikely, doesn't it? But all revolutions start with the seed of an idea. I'm guessing I'm not the only one who thinks this way.

reply to post by schuyler
You sound as foolish as my brother, when he said it comes his time, he was going to tell G to (snip) off, what a joke, unless you are the real antichrist. You are are lost in this place and will remain so for a time, no offence but there is nothing you can do, except pray you don't get squished like a bug for your arrogance.

Just don't get it yet, my brother wimpers like a little puppy now, and his "oh Gs" are some what misdirrected and meaningless, complaints.

Maybe this thread has helped others.

That's like people who selfishly say they believe in nothing, and it's obvious they don't, can't even believe in theirself, when they are standing right there in front of theirselves.

Maybe it would help if you teach a small child something, you would be amazed at how greatful they are, but this to can be very humbling, they whine and say, I can't do this and that, and when you show them that they can.

Words can go on in almost indefinite.
All that is, cannot be created or destroyed.
Take your labs take your words this will come to pass.
Enjoy the moment.