I suspect reality is as follows, and I want liberation from it

Originally posted by TKDRL
I sometimes catch myself wondering if I am already dead, and this is the hell that I was sent to. Sure does seem like it a lot of the time.

Funny you say that, I always thought of this plane as so called "Hell". Think about it... the worst things that can possibly happen to you.... happens here! Pain is mostly driven from all around us... from a loved one passing away to these so called evil human beings (Illuminati). So it really can't get any worse, in my opinion, if it can, it happens here in our life cycle....

... now here's the bright side, if we're already living through hell, it can only get better when we move on to the other side... our home... our true home... so I say live to the fullest you can here... and when time is up... you really get to go to so called paradise... your true home! I'm sure there are lessons to be learned from all this, cause if this world was "perfect" there would be no lessons to be learned. We MUST go through Hell to appreciate Heaven.

Take it from bill...

OP, I salute you. Best thread since a long time. Thank you.

There is not much to add when one speaks truth.

Some would say that suffering is not real, only the illusion makes it so, the same about all things on this world. Thus once you leave this place all things will make sense. Raping babies, yes its real and it is allowed to happen, because both parties agreed to it at a higher level, as the Jews that died to Hitler, they all knew it before incarnating. You see, the baby being raped can be the same as the rapist, both will feel the pain or pleasure because both are the same.

There is so much diversity on this plane of existence, there is much value in that, better yet I wonder why I am as I am when I could be the baby or the rapist or both, how did I came to be like I am now. Differences among us must have a reason or a cause that we have no knowledge of. When people will start to be more alike in all aspects, then things will improve, since truth is just one and thus eventually we'll all be one. Seems to me we still have a long way in reaching that.

First i must say Respect.!!!! One of the few threads out there, that stays objective all the way.

In my opinion, the reality of the World which we living in, its only a mirror that reflects our actions. And by that i mean the vary nature of man. We are still as we were Brutal,Violent,Aggressive etc. and we formed the world according as to what we are. A world full of hate,misery,conflicts etc. By knowing this "Fact" its perfectly normal to feel the way you feeling about it. And i think many people feeling the same. Certainly i cannot tell you how to liberate your self from it, as you stated at your topic, but instead of looking for that just ask your self "What can you do?" to change the world.


PS: Sorry for my bad English.

Wow... Well written. I always check in but its been some time since I've read something on this site that is so close to Heart. I happen to think Its a very legitimate Question! I wrote something similar few years back, or maybe last year! There all running together seems like. I want Out was the title.

I have to say that history points to some Large issues. I think its safe to say that something very disruptive went down on GIA way way way back. Some sort of invasion which lead to the tampering of Hominid Mans Genetics. Anyway it looks like something or someone is coming back and from what I can read in some of the Good Books of the world, they're not to big on Humans, especially smart human trying to make the world better. Just take the story about the tower of Babel:

"Genesis 11:6 and the Lord said, Behold, the people is one, and they have all one language; and this they begin to do: and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do.
"
Genesis 11:7 Go to, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another's speech. 11:8 So the Lord scattered them abroad from thence upon the face of all the earth: and they left off to build the city.

Reincarnation is a wonderful concept until you realize you are reincarnating on a planet that doesn't belong to you!
They call us human resources for a reason. If we truly reincarnate to learn then why are most of the brilliant Women/Men in this world hell bent on the Tree of Life (elimination of AGE or eternal life) that was so rudely riped from our hands by these Tyrants, Gods, or Technologically advanced Men.

If you really read all these different accounts of the story one thing is clear.
They want to keep us dumb down and stupid other wise we more than likely would be able to figure out whats really going on! That is terrifying to them from what I can read. MAN becoming GODS

reply to post by schuyler

I believe the Ego dies when the brain dies. What is left is consciousness. I believe theres so much suffering because people tend to believe that they are the mind, or the body. i.e. I AM a republican, an american, Gay etc etc. when the truth is we are so much more than that. Fact, the Ego's primal fear is the fear of non-being, that is why it hurts when we feel our voice doesn't count or gets ignored (especially by our loved ones). This is also why it's so hard when you start meditating. The constant mind chatter.

Now who is this thing that watches? Who is this thing that experiences pain, that watches all your thoughts? Imagine all of your thoughts and emotions as kites in the sky. Who is holding the strings? That is your consciousness. He doesn't judge, or feels guilty. He/she just experiences.

It is my belief that when the body dies, the mind dies (since it cant live without the body) hence the ego dies, then we are liberated. All it's left is our consciousness.

reply to post by NazcaP
Yknow sometimes something someone says puts things into perspective, i really hope your nose isnt hurting too much, and it made me realise how lucky we are to have the NHS here in the uk, free treatment for everyone, YET, you will still find in most UK ER departments on a saturday night doctors and nurses being attacked for not providing a quick enough service or whatever, crazy old world isnt it. Will the human species as a whole ever become happy??

There is lesser and greater degrees of things, people just don't get it, there is a reason for all things.
This place is one of them, most are to stupid to relize the reason for this place, but for the balance of Creation this place must occur also.
The cry baby Blasphemy will get you no where, at least no where from my perspective, who has a right to demand anything from the Creator, time to humble self not make, this cry baby Blasphemies.
Wait till the real gnashing of the teeth comes, then maybe you can go cry baby if you want.

What a bunch of wimps, time to get down on your knees and ask for guidance, as for death I have died a couple of times, so far it has not been perminate, when it is big deal, I'm not going to cry about it.
So you stubb your toe, if you had been looking where you were going it would not of happened.

Originally posted by dn4cer2000
reply to post by schuyler

 

It is my belief that when the body dies, the mind dies (since it cant live without the body) hence the ego dies, then we are liberated. All it's left is our consciousness.

* bows * with respect, I would debate...

You state: "All is left is our consciousness?"

So in this state, if you were asked. What have you learned?
You would not respond as you are only consciousness; which implies a lack of organized thought, or ego?

Correct me if I am mistaken, but isn't ego what forms things like sentences? thoughts? responses? questions?
It calculates, tabulates, constructs, performs and creates things?
Does not ego recount our memories?
Cannot the Spirit retain memories, and in some more refined form, the ego?

You don't learn to drive a car so you can then walk to where your going...?

It is my intuition that the pure state of consciousness is the first form of existance we learn.
In forms such as...different forms of energy... and, elements such as earth, air, fire and water...

We then incarnate to more complex forms like bacteria...and so on...
Each becomming more complex, until we incarnate in creatures that can develop mind and ego.
It is ego that can detatch itself from the "whole" of the singular cosmic source of mind to form "new" things...
"New creations!"

New creations will lead to advanced technologies and immortality, which will free us from the wheel of karma and reincarnation...

The zero-point, etheric realm retains the imprint of your consciousness/spirit/ego, and melds this with the greater self...
You remember many other names and lives, but they are still all you...

As an example:
The ego that cried without shame at age 2 and was called "Junior".... is the same ego of the deeply compassionate adult of age 62 named "Senior"

Or.. like the caveman "uhnuhuh" who raged at the storm filled skies, who is also, later, "Carl" gazing in deep respect and admiration at the images from Mars...
Carl will remember being Uhhnuhuh, but is called neither anymore...

Both could "create" things, and now, his "greater self" will go on to create even greater cosmic wonders...with it's more refined version of all it's prior egos...

And creation is what it is all about, no?

reply to post by TKDRL


yea i sometimes believe that we are something grater but sent here by a greater authority to prove our place in existence. That's why i try to keep true to myself and others. I hope after this body dies and rots away my energy/soul or what ever we really are has proven to be something more than just another dud in the universe.

reply to post by googolplex


AMEN TO THAT

Originally posted by schuyler
After reading countless books and listening to hundreds of people over the last forty years, From Suzy Smith’s “You Cannot Die” through the Seth Books and Ian Stevenson’s work on reincarnation. I’ve read countless accounts of NDEs, from accounts in books like Moody’s “Life after Life” to individual accounts as posts on forums. And, of course, we have the stories from religions both huge and small, from all over the world. The accounts are both anecdotal and dogma, but they all point to a few basic postulates. I won’t call them “facts” because there is doubt about the exact specifics.

1. You survive “death” in some way. Your ego remains intact, at least at first and in part. Your physical appearance is pretty much like it is now, though of a finer material and vibration.

2. There is an afterlife with several levels. Your first level allows you to still see this plane, such as in NDEs. Eventually you “see the light” and go to the next level where you meet people who have passed on prior. This realm is described as very beautiful.

3. Much of what you experience after death depends on what you believe. If you believe in Jesus, you’ll see him. If you believe in 72 virgins, you’ll see them. You will tend to believe your views are vindicated. Rationalists will have a bit of a problem, but they’ll get over it.

4. Reincarnation is a basic truth. Your ego is part of a greater soul that experiences life through many different lives. At some level you forget your ‘previous’ lives so they do not interfere with your current ones.

5. It appears that “time” is an intellectual concept that is a convenience, but doesn’t really exist. In other words, your next life could be in 900 BC; time is not lineal.

I know there are people here and elsewhere who believe they’ve got the specifics of these general statements down way closer than this. I appreciate your certainty, but I don’t buy it because you contradict each other. For every person who claims Jesus meets them on the other side there is someone who claims she is a reincarnated alien. I have seen posts where it is claimed we must live 144 separate lives to qualify for ‘advancement’ and threads claiming we have to live ALL lives on earth before we collectively move on. I don’t see any good way to verify any of these specific claims and don’t want to waste time examining them, therefore I’ll stick to the more general issues above.

One of my reluctant conclusions is that it appears we may not have much individual control over what happens. What we have come to know as our own selves, our egos, may have a somewhat small part in this game, a temporary convenience of the oversoul so that he can experience whatever it is he is attempting to learn. We may be semi-sentient avatars for a Second Life game we don’t know we are playing.

Although the lives of most people typing at keyboards these days must be somewhat okay, for most of our existence and for the vast majority of people today life is as Hobbes described it: “solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, and short.” It always has been. Nature doesn’t exhibit much “love,” that thing we’re all told we must spire to. Nature is “red in tooth and claw” and basically lives off death. The number of people killed by other humans, the number of people living in abject poverty, the number of people who starve to death, the number of people who live without hope is appalling.

I’m left wondering, what is the point here? Surely you are not telling me that these kinds of lives are secretly teaching their oversouls some esoteric, but very important message about the meaning of life. It’s pretty apparent that majority opinion is that we, Homo sapiens, are “bad.” Whether this is objectified in thoughts that “we are destroying the planet” or “We all live in sin,” the message is pretty much the same. This seems to be coming from ourselves rather than from somewhere on high. We are not a race that loved ourselves. We prefer to blame ourselves, or at least everyone else but ourselves.

So what I think we have is a life-reincarnation cycle that involved this veil of forgetfulness that leaves us in a state of ignorance when we are here and perhaps we are not. I don’t know who or what set up this system. If you say it’s “God,” OK. Call it what you want. If this is sentient, I’m calling It (or Them) out.

Why are you doing this to us? This whole thing is painful. It hurts. It’s not all that fun. I’m happy to be able to smell the roses and the oranges, taste good food, feel the wind on my face, get laid, and all the physical pleasures. But it’s not enough for what You inflict upon us. Don’t you dare tell me this is all self-inflicted. It’s not. You did this to us and I don’t want to do it any more. You’re locking a paper bag on our heads, making us forget everything we’ve ever endured, then sending us down here to “do good.” Nonsense. How can You justify this torture?

Whoever started this, You no longer have my support. We’re not the problem; You are. I want out of this pattern. I want You to let my people go. I want You to free us from the shackles of this cycle. If there is not already a movement with similar ideals and goals, it starts here. If there is, point me where to sign up. I am going to devote every ounce of strength I have, at whatever level, to break out of this hell You have created for us.

This Post resonates with what I believe. S&F This is so well said and put together.

I hope people stop for a second and see the Big Picture I think you put almost all the pieces together . Maybe One Day One Time One Dimension Somewhere We will get our questions answered with Satisfaction and Certainty ..

Sometimes I wonder maybe I am playing the game of a very sick Higher Self ....but Hey who am I now to do or say anything all I can do is Question and Question ..but at the deepest level I know right from wrong ..I hope at the very end we will all be winners .

Thank You for a great Post.

Namaste

As a sentient soul that is bigger than the simple existence of our current selves, I believe we had the choice to enter this cycle. We chose to put the paper bag of ignorance over our owns heads, and now we must find our way out. I imagine we'll all have quite a laugh when we eventually figure it out.

You can only appreciate heaven after you have been through hell.
The lesson is: Make the best out of hell.

Originally posted by Khurzon
Correct me if I am mistaken, but isn't ego what forms things like sentences? thoughts? responses? questions?

Your brain turns your thoughts into English.

However, thoughts and feelings are fundamentally non physical. They are states of experience.

Your consciousness/soul/spirit interacts with your brain/mind. It responds to the message your brain synthesizes from your body.

Slightly off topic but I love the passion that leads to intelligent designed and heart felt posts. Some of the best i've read. Thank you for sharing and opening my mind a tad. If only we knew what to do. We are stuck here, a virtual hell it seems for many. Some of us have a bit of good to spare. This thread inspired me to do something. I don't know what yet but the next chance I have to be human I will, because of the ... in this thread. I will. Please do the same.

reply to post by SassyCat


I agree there are people that are put in harsh conditions, but they put their barrier on themselves.

No one can keep you somewhere (minus if your chained up or a prisoner) and if your trapped physically you can be mentally free.

There are people that have lived through things we could even strive to imagine, but they keep going.

There is no point on focusing on bad things because it creates more bad things.

Pred...

Why are you doing this to us? This whole thing is painful. It hurts. It’s not all that fun. I’m happy to be able to smell the roses and the oranges, taste good food, feel the wind on my face, get laid, and all the physical pleasures. But it’s not enough for what You inflict upon us. Don’t you dare tell me this is all self-inflicted. It’s not. You did this to us and I don’t want to do it any more. You’re locking a paper bag on our heads, making us forget everything we’ve ever endured, then sending us down here to “do good.” Nonsense. How can You justify this torture?

Whoever started this, You no longer have my support. We’re not the problem; You are. I want out of this pattern. I want You to let my people go. I want You to free us from the shackles of this cycle. If there is not already a movement with similar ideals and goals, it starts here. If there is, point me where to sign up. I am going to devote every ounce of strength I have, at whatever level, to break out of this hell You have created for us.

Well said and I totally feel the same. I always ask myself the same thing.

reply to post by Staben


Okay. Well neither one of us will change the other's mind, but if you were to offer me insurmountable evidence of the Bible's 100% validity from cover to cover, I would be on board. However, I fear that if I were to offer you the same evidence that the Bible, or even part of it, is rubbish, you would turn a blind eye and keep your faith. Good for you, that's what the Bible teaches you, so you're going to heaven.

As I sat here reading the OP and all the posts, I couldn't help but grin, and here's why;

Today, for the 10,376th time in my life the SHTF..... yet again. It's not world-shattering, it's not cancer, but it's definitely something I don't want to have to deal with. It's bothersome, it's extremely straining, and uncomfortable. It requires my immediate attention and sets me off course. It disturbs me.

I've heard people tell me "You have to think positive! If you think negative, bad things will happen to you!" These people don't understand that I wasn't born with negative thoughts, and bad things happen especially when I'm having a great day. I could be happy one minute, and next minute I'll receive a call with really bad news. I'm almost afraid to be happy anymore, because something always comes and obliterates my happy day. I've become paranoid. I've become cynical. If I feel a moment of peace, I start feeling scared of what's to follow. For every happy moment it almost seems like I must pay for it three-fold. I'm at a ridiculous point where I wonder if seeking out a witch-doctor might be a good idea!!! It's absurd that my thoughts should even lead me there. Do I feel that desperate to avoid disaster? I hear a reluctant and -are-you-crazy-?- "Yes".

My goal every day is to:

1.) try hard to stay positive.
2.) try hard to convince myself that life is not all that bad.
3.) try hard to adopt new philosophies like "It's just money" or "at least you don't live in some part of Africa where the rebel groups rape and execute people in the most barbarous ways on a daily basis." I ACTUALLY HAVE TO MAKE MYSELF FEEL BETTER BY COMPARING MY EXISTENCE TO THAT OF RAPE AND MURDER VICTIMS! That seems wrong now that I think about it.

In truth there are many things to be thankful for, and I've got a few I'm really, truly thankful for (such as #3).

Peace of mind is an amazing feeling. I can probably count on my fingers the amount of times I've felt peaceful. I work toward that feeling every day. I scheme and plot ways to achieve it. I heard somewhere it's possible, so that keeps me hopeful. Authors of books selling peace of mind must make a killing. Is meditation the way? Yoga? Healthy diet? Regular exercise? Becoming a monk or nun? Going to church every Sunday? Dumb reality shows? Pharmaceuticals and Drugs??? All these activities beg for a momentary peace of mind, an escape from this horror-filled reality. We'd give anything to feel better! If anything is certain, it's that pain and suffering is universal. The business of making people feel better about their lives is quite lucrative.

In the end there is love, or rather the act of finding a suitable companion to help you wad through this life. To go alone through life is to suffer more than is necessary. It's one thing to be thankful for. It's a flashlight in a dark, long and treacherous tunnel. Whoever or whatever the creator is, at least it gave us a chance at love. Unfortunately sometimes the batteries fail and we're left to either find a way to recharge them, or find a new flashlight as we stumble through the darkness over the scattered obstacles in our way.

Life is a mystery. We seem to have been given just enough pleasure to keep existing,... just enough to keep us alive and not much more than that. We've been given a good ration of fear of taking ourselves out of this world. It's a long-term contract, and if you try to withdraw before your time is up, you've got a hefty fine to pay.

I'm kind of overwhelmed about all these replies. I had no idea. It's going to take me awhile to parse through all these great ideas. Thanks so much (except for the name callers). Just a quick note. I KNOW I don't understand reality. It's just a stab at understanding what may be impossible to understand. Thank you.