Undebunkable 9\11 video.

reply to post by TrickoftheShade


Don't be so upset people are waking up to the truth. Seriously, there is no need for personal attacks. It gets you no where real fast around here.

Originally posted by Califemme

Originally posted by govtfluDo local homicide detectives solve murders by a "Commission" of political insiders?.. lol.. of course not. they would spend millions & take years to solve nothing & catch nobody.

I am under the distinct impression that murders are solved with evidence, eyewitness testimony and/or motive that is provable in court.

You have provided none of these. So in a court of law, you lose.

Of all the "truthers" out there, not a one can name one person, provide one eyewitness or a even logical reason for someone to even be involved in this grand conspiracy. This is a FAIL of epic proportions. People who believe 9/11 was inside job after all this time are not considered conspiracy theorists, they are just conspiracy nuts who have closed their mind to the fact that 19 Saudis with box cutters hijacked 4 planes and crashed 3 of them into buildings, and a 4th one into the ground.

My suggestion is if you hear hoofbeats, think horses, not zebras.

I never said I "won".. the point is if 'truthers" lose due to hearsay & lack of court admitted evidence.. the govt loses too.

NOBODY has proven box-cutter wielding 'terrorists' were responsible.. it's a govt allegation that could very well be defeated in an open fair court of law... you have heard of "not guilty" verdicts I assume? where the govt loses? Ever been to an evidence hearing where govt evidence get tossed out?

9/11 is an unsolved murder, there is no statute of limitations on murder.. yet this murder case is 'closed' to new information because political insiders had meetings?.. thats laughable and an abject insult to American laws.

Like it or not, a pre-9/11 American virtue was "innocent until proven guilty".. no amount of media & govt spin makes people "guilty because the govt says so".. you can't get around that.

It may be easier to issue arrest warrants on charges of criminal conspiracy, rather than murder. I believe there is a much lower threshold of proof required.

Here are a couple of general areas where one "might" look in order to prove criminal conspiracy. Again these are very general and intended as a starting place.

There are reports of the art group Gelatin living in WTC tower 1 in 2000 and possibly 2001 on the 91st floor.
The group had CONSTRUCTION PASSES. Who gave them these passes, exactly? For what construction work, precisely?

If these construction passes were faked by the group, then we may have them the group for criminal trespassing.
Certainly, if it ended there, nine years later, who knows? Maybe there is no case. However, when we consider the fact that the group has admitted in writing that they removed a window illegally and built a balcony illegally, then who knows? Causing public mischief, damage to property, public endangerment ...

Who would charge them? Maybe the Port Authority. Maybe not! Maybe previous tenants in the WTC. Possibly families of the 9/11 victims maybe. That's possible.

Where was security when these people in the art group were there with their CONSTRUCTION PASSES and apparently living in the towers? It sounds like security must have been very aware of their presence.

Who at the top told security that the 14 Israeli art students affiliated with the Austrian art group Gelatin were free to come and go at all hours of the night? How did the "students" get in and out, exactly?

Also I believe a shipping company was supposed to be leasing the 91st floor when the Gelatin group was building the ("Trojan Horse" is the term used on the group's makeshift architectural drawings) B thing.
Clearly there was some tenant that was supposed to on the 91st floor.,

There have also been reports that security was very high before 9/11 but that bomb sniffing bombs were pulled out of the WTC four days before 9/11. Anything to that? That would have to be confirmed. What about hos there was some type of power down in the WTC just before 9/11.

Why were building officials telling workers not to evacuate WTC 1 after the plane had already been hit. Why were the workers told to go back to their desks? There had actually been several evacuations of the WTC in the weeks leading up to 9/11. Still, this time workers were told to go back to their desks.

reply to post by govtflu


Actually there is a lot of govt. evidence that has been tested in a Court of Law. Have a look at this lot from the Moussaoui trial :-

www.vaed.uscourts.gov...

The Moussaoui case and conviction is an excellent place to start.

Let's open it all up, though. Let's find out exactly what was being brought into that small airport in Florida where much of the flight training was being done by Muslims. It could be time for a new legal Discovery process.

What was the relationship of young Israelis living within a few blocks of several Muslims at flight school in Florida before 9/11? What would it mean if at least one of these Israelis turned up as an art student that later did work in the WTC Tower 1 building? Some of these art students later living in WTC One had construction passes.

Where might we be if some of the Israeli art students also had connections to Mossad, and in particular explosives and demolition?

Again what exactly was being brought into that small airport in Florida? Is there any connection between this and reports of an Ecstasy trafficking ring related to Israeli art students?

Also why does it appear that Muslims that partied before 9/11 were on the federal government's payroll?

Certainly there is a lot to look at here. Conspiracy theory? It will take some time to see if there's evidence of an even larger CRIMINAL CONSPIRACY and a motive that points in that direction. There's nothing wrong with a prosecutor having a theory, as long as there is a lot of evidence to back it up.

While it might be extremely naive to think that our government would willingly involve itself in a new trial for the benefit of the victims or the curiosity of the citizenry, the truth is its own reward.

Had I lost a family member on 9/11, I wouldn't want to hear hollow excuses as to why I was being barred from the truth. I wouldn't be satisfied with some intentionally vague excuses about foreign policy.

The independent investigations will continue no matter what. So much has already been uncovered that we weren't supposed to find out about. Sure there's been a lot of misinformation and disinformation released. Regardless, a bigger picture of criminal conspiracy is emerging.

reply to post by Seti_Starr


Waking up to the truth? Not sure about that. Waking up to the fact that they're being misled by internet hucksters perhaps. As you found out a few days ago... and then went remarkably quiet about

reply to post by nickspm


Gelitin - note spelling - are four artists based in Austria. Wolfgang Gantner, Ali Janka, Florian Reither and Tobias Urban.

Their two most recent exhibitions in London both finished in September - one as part of "New Decor" at the Hayward and a thing about the Mona Lisa at the Carlson Gallery.

I'd conclude that it's pretty unlikely that they are demolition experts or a front for the CIA. Anything's possible though, and you can contact them easily via their website. Why not bung them an email?

reply to post by TrickoftheShade


Me quiet? Have you seen me go away? I rather enjoy your personal attacks, it makes this thread even more exciting!

But honestly, if I wanted the official story, I would get it from the MSM...no need for you to fill me in.

I'm not going to waste my valuable time or energy replying to debunkers any more, it's just not worth it. Things have gone way past that point. The evidence against the OS being remotely possible has reached the point where it is not even debatable. Moreover, the 9/11 Commission was clearly a whitewash, as is being increasingly stated by insiders who know exactly what went on, and who have evidence to support their claims.

This video raises some excellent points. I see an orange....it is an orange, debunkers will never make me believe it is an apple, because it isn't an apple.

The OS is BS, and a proper investigation MUST take place.

Originally posted by GoodOlDave


It should be obvious- we sent a boy to do a man's job in the White House, and Bush knew deep down from his life of nonstop incompetence that that it was his incompetence that allowed this attack to occur. If you realized that it was your incompetence that caused 3000 people to die, you'd have a look of guilt on your face too.

There, the secret conspiracy has been revealed. You can put your David Ray Griffin books away and move on with your lives now.

Why exactly should your personal fantasy be obvious to anyone else? Symptomatic of narcissism?

You slam truthers for making statements which you say (wrongly) are backed by no evidence, but here you are, attributing your own invented reason for Bush looking guilty.........then you present it as fact (an OBVIOUS fact) and then belittle others for not being able to read your mind.

But hey, that's more of the NLP disinfo techniques which you have learned so well. Present a fiction as a truth, make a strong statement and say it is OBVIOUS, the intention being to make others, who don't see what you state is obvious, feel silly, and undermine their confidence.

reply to post by Namaste1001

This is really great video, a lot of information! If 911 was a conspiracy or not is still "open question" for me, but this video is eyeopening I must say. Thanks!

TrickoftheShade,

I've seen the Austrian group's work. It appears at times there's quite a fine line between art and terrorism.
Gelitin changed their name from Gelatin in 2005. It's all quite sublime: sometimes the name is
all caps, sometimes simply lowercase. One doesn't know what to expect next from these guys.
I don't think I want to contact them.

reply to post by nickspm


" there's quite a fine line betwen art and terrorism ",

thanks for my first really good laugh of the day.

Originally posted by nickspm
TrickoftheShade,

I've seen the Austrian group's work. It appears at times there's quite a fine line between art and terrorism.
Gelitin changed their name from Gelatin in 2005. It's all quite sublime: sometimes the name is
all caps, sometimes simply lowercase. One doesn't know what to expect next from these guys.
I don't think I want to contact them.

I suppose they might puncture your fantasy?

I'm sorry, but that's how it looks to me. It would be simplicity itself to speak to them and you could do some actual original research.

But look at their output. Do you really believe, given the information available about them, that they're involved in wiring the WTC? And they're just carrying on with their art projects as a cover up now? It all looks highly improbable to me.

In fact I'm going to send them an email now and ask them: "When you did your piece at the WTC was that a cover for wiring the buildings for demolition?" I'll let you know what they say. Although I think it's a bit rich that I'm doing your work for you.

Originally posted by Seti_Starr
reply to post by TrickoftheShade

 

Me quiet? Have you seen me go away? I rather enjoy your personal attacks, it makes this thread even more exciting!

But honestly, if I wanted the official story, I would get it from the MSM...no need for you to fill me in.

I didn't mean you'd gone quiet in general. Obviously you haven't done that

But you've gone very quiet on the subject of the videos you wanted released. The ones they released in 2006.

TrickoftheShade:

Since you're being so generous with your time, you might ask Gelitin about the 14 other artists that shared the same space at WTC One before 9/11 on the 91st floor at the same time.

Were they all Israelis? Apparently some artists were issued construction passes. If the "balcony" being built didn't have approval, what were the construction passes ostensibly being handed out for exactly? Didn't security or anyone else wonder what kind of construction was actually being done?

Hopefully Gelitin will be a little less cagey with you than they were in the August 18, 2001 article published in The New York Times: Balcony Scene (Or Unseen) Atop the World; Episode at Trade Center Assumes Mythic Qualities

www.nytimes.com...

reply to post by nickspm


Okay.

I must say, I'm surprised you haven't done this yourself. Either you're frightened - which you seem to imply above - or you prefer to keep your illusions intact. Or you just don't think 9/11 is all that important.

TrickoftheShade-

As much as I enjoy a bit of the ol' schoolyard banter and adolescent bravado,
let's keep the focus on 9/11.

Your idea to make contact with gelitin could certainly yield enlightening results.
Let us know how it all turns out.

Originally posted by TrickoftheShade
reply to post by encoder

 

So if the NWo or whoever are bent on wiping everybody out - which they're doing a TERRIBLE job of - then they should be applauded because they're basically right?

I've never seen the the two conspiracy memes "people are sheeple" and "NWO wiping us out" blended so effectively. Bravo.

bravo?
there is always a connection.

sorry for my late reply. i usually don't visit ATS anymore. did open some doors for me. encouraged to search for reasons why bad and good things happen.

they don't do a terrible job.
the population of the earth -normally- should be an exponential curve. i believe the current world population should be around 8-9 billion. in ideal case, well above 12b. explain that later.

the problem lyes in education. we [people of the world] are an incredible risk to ourselves in this time. one foul thought is capable of eradicating millions. and on that analogy a perfect society is where each member is perfect / near perfect. one foul thought spans a disease. there are ways to deal with that disease, but an epidemic means drastic actions. those drastic actions further propagate the epidemic on this level.

getting back to education. not social or economical systems makes our lives better, technology does. but technology means power. power without control is nothing? nothing, my ass, it's a disaster. and what controls the ways a person uses that technology? what keeps him not to overload a fusion reactor in the center of a town? if a person has endless knowledge of technology and a complete lack of spiritual knowledge / empathic experience it will use that technology to deal harm. it is triggered by one foul thought.

it was one foul thought what triggered the 9/11 incident. the rest was only skill to find the veins of rotten blood towards making it a reality. those veins are likely military, terrorist groups (more or less), secret services, government, mass media, everyday people. government: a great source for rotten blood - and that is a characteristic for all nations. a politician succeeds only if it's personal feelings are neglected to full extent, or at least completely detached. that is true for military, secret agent, suicide bomber, news anchor and by default every day people. further more, if a politician's family is at risk he will never give that sacrifice because it has became natural to elevate a brother or sister above anyone next to us.

the problem lyes in education. nowdays it is a great if proclaim yourself an atheist and deny every single notion of the soul. nowdays love and compassion is something that brings a sarcastic smile on people's faces. nowdays if i say "i love you" to my girlfriend she answers "cut the sentimental crap" and she searches for proof in a world dominated by the lack of it. nowdays faith (NOT dogma) is something like the root of evil.

the problem lyes in education. for many generations (after my opinion much more, at least 5000 years) spiritual education is part of a few lucky people. those few lucky people are striped of technology or political power. but i bet there was one of them which had a foul thought and sent the world down into the abyss. there was one single focused point of evil from where this came from, one serpent in the garden. one issue not dealt with ("dealt with" here does not mean execution or punishment at all)

but it's not lost. it is enough for one 'thought' to crush mankind, but all the good things have to perish for that 'thought' to become reality.

then they should be applauded because they're basically right?
yes, they are basically right. applauded? NO. because i am certain there are other ways i just can't see it.