I just saw Fahrenheit 9/11....

Haven't seen the movie yet, but am hoping to go sometime next week.

Question- did it ever get a rating??? (PG, PG-13, R, etc). So far in the commercials Ive seen its still unrated. I must admit, Michael Moore is a great film maker, but one thing bothers me. Not about him, but about his followers. Alot of his most avid fans say that the government lies, america is evil, dont listen to what they tell you, etc...yet ANYTHING that comes out of Michael Moore's mouth is suddenly pure truth and godly.

EH/???

Michael Moore has become the America for people who hate America but still live here.

Its not Moore specifically though. its any anti-something movie, person, book. I mean, the movie JFK? So many people instantly believed EVERY WORD of that movie I was shocked!If you say the government lies, whats to stop those against the government fom l\ying too? People say that Americans are brainwashed by their government, but today it seems like more of us are brainwashed by those who hate it.

Let me sum this up for you.

This is the 4th time I've had to create a new account in 2 years due to malfunctions in these forums. I've been here a long time and I know you and your methods well.

The movie?
If you want to seem all knowing, I suggest you support your claims of what Michael Moore has done with actual proof. Any kind of proof would be great. BE specific. Generalizations aren't worth crap.

Going through what someone says line by line saying "Thats not true, your a monon." ain't gonna cut it. If you can't contest the big boys, stay out of the game. Talk is cheap and your two cents has already been spent.

STOP.

Warnings come next.
Both of you, cut it out NOW.

It's been rated R.

Originally posted by ATSluvDroid
I love how so many of you people are bashing this film before having ever seen it, and in the same breath flame and insult me, someone who actually saw the film and wanted to share my review.

Your review is fine, I don't know of any others who have insulted you but the way you snap at me I can see why they do.

Originally posted by ATSluvDroidIt's sad to see so many of you "plants" here trying to sway the public against something that everyone in the country is going to see regardless.

True, word-of-mouth will mean a lot more will see it than normal movies.

Originally posted by ATSluvDroidI was never very familiar with Moore until this film. I knew he existed but never had much interest in his previous works. I saw this movie with no preconceptions about Moore or the movie aside from it being about Bush, the War and 9/11.

Well if you're not familiar with Michael Moore, no wonder you think he made a "great doccumentary".

Let me just say a few things about him.

He blamed K-mart and Charleton Heston for Columbine.

I think that says enough. You can't say you went in with a blank slate, that is unfair to yourself, you need to understand the man telling you things, or you won't understand what type of slant he has. It was people's lack of knowledge of Hitler's mental immaturity and his hatred for the Slavs that led them to believe he would be a GOOD leader. When in reality all he wanted was a war, a war to destroy the Slavs and eradicate them all.

Understanding that you understand the filth he wrote was just propoganda and biased garbage.

Originally posted by ATSluvDroidThis film is a masterpiece, regardless of what way you regard it. If Moore is on a mission to sway the public against our "fearless leader" then guess what, hes doing it and in the coming months when discussions on the film sky rocket, all of you "plants" will have your work cut out for you.

I think it is far from a masterpiece. Paradice Lost, was a masterpiece. Moore's film is just the expression of free speech, little more than that. The fact you call Bush a "fearless leader" is an example of YOUR characteristics and where YOU are coming from. And it is a world of ignorance...or innocence, both go hand in hand usually.

Fact is the WTC are gone, you should think about that.

Originally posted by ATSluvDroidI feel pity for those of you who claim to deny ignorance, yet cast a scolding blind eye to that which you have yet to experience as you clammer to show your detest in sync as though your actually trying to chop down a monster.

You seem to think no one has seen anything yet.

There is more than just seeing, he did write F9/11 first you realize, and there are plenty of arguments within the film.

Seeing is actually an act of emotion so is the last thing someone who wants to analyze something truly wants to do.

Why would someone want to see implications? Like "Who killed our soldiers" then cut-scene to Bush. Sure he didn't say it, but he made you FEEL it was Bush's fault.

If you study the matter you realize it isn't.

As Shakespeare said (another famous for many masterpieces):

Henry V: Act 4, Scene I

"So, if a son that is by his father sent about
merchandise do sinfully miscarry upon the sea, the
imputation of his wickedness by your rule, should be
imposed upon his father that sent him: or if a
servant, under his master's command transporting a
sum of money, be assailed by robbers and die in
many irreconciled iniquities, you may call the
business of the master the author of the servant's
damnation: but this is not so: the king is not
bound to answer the particular endings of his
soldiers, the father of his son, nor the master of
his servant; for they purpose not their death, when
they purpose their services."

I think you should read that and memorize it.

Why?

Because it teaches you how to properly place responsibility.

Something Moore knows nothing about.

Moore blames K-Mart for Columbine, Moore blames Bush for 9/11.

Columbine was the fault of two insane children, 9/11, the fault of Ossama Bin Laden.

Originally posted by ATSluvDroidLet me tell you something, the facts in this movie are non debabtable. Go see the damn movie before allowing the sludge built up within your systems to begin spewing out in any direction. To do this in the same breath as explaining your denial of ignorance is as slap in the face to real people with a genuine interest in the issues.

They are quite debateable, mention one "fact" to me and I'll rip it to shreds for you.

Originally posted by ATSluvDroidI'm willing to bet the haters on these forums are mostly republicans...

I'm not a republican, I'm an anti-federalist, I hate nothing more than the "Federal Government" and its usurpation of power from the States.

But I know that the Democrats are far worse than Republicans, the Democrats are centralists, the Republicans are not.

I also know that the Democrats are internationalists and the Republicans are willing to preserve the life-style that is unique to Americans. And not allow it to be destroyed by foriegners.

Originally posted by ATSluvDroidAnd finally, no, I'm not some kid, nor am I related to Michael Moore in any way. But keep trying to take your pot shots at me.

Michael Moore has done well in proving his contentions and as such is now doing very well because of it If you want to sput off at the mouth as you contest his claims, do so as he has, with facts. Otherwise, swallow that sludge that keeps popping up in your throats, shut up and smile.

I do take my pot-shots at you.

I take my shots at you on this forum, mister 16,000ths.

I take my shots at your education.

Again, I would love to see your miraculous and wonderous and magical 2 hours of "revelation" be pitted against my 4 years of experience.

Make that 14 years, I've been doing this (studying politics and history) since at least middle school. I knew more history than my history teachers in High School, it was quite sad.

But anyways, I don't think our "epic" battle of witts will turn out like David and Goliath.

Well....everyones panties seem to be in quit a bundle!

FreeMason- LOVED the Shakespearean quote! I just noted something aboout shakespeare in another moore forum. nice touch friend!

Lets face it-Moore:great leader. Just like Hitler. Just like Ceasar. Im not praising him for his intellignece, Im being factual. If he can gain THIS MUCH SUPPORT, he must be doing something right, whether its good or not. Personally, I find him far too extreme. I prefer....Bradbury, which, MIGHT I ADD, Moore took the name of the film from (dag you michael!!). I see this as an insult to literature, but thats just me.

But the problem is,..this is a "F9/11 Dusicussion" forum right? it seems like everybodys just talking about MICHAEL freggin MOORE! Screw the man, I dont know him, I never will, maybe Ill meet him in a later life and we'll talk over tea and crumpets, but God knows none of us have much business with him now. So why are we talking about HIM when we are supposed to be talking about the MOVIE? When specific people get involved, everybody starts getting angry.For example, we could all have a very civilized debate about...oh...I dunno.....Nightmare Before Christmas, but if anyone says what a genius or moron Tim Burton is, everybody gets pissed! WHy is that eh?

So why are we talking about HIM when we are supposed to be talking about the MOVIE?

Yes, I know I said that, and yes, I know I'm talking about him too....but you know....I had to say it to be able to say not to say it...right? Im hypocritical...yes...but at least I realize it and will stop doing it rightttttt....NOW!

The reason for everyone else to know, why I brought up Shakespeare is the same reason why we have to talk about Michael Moore. Which is the same reason you have to talk about Hitler if you want to talk about WW2.

Michael Moore's character, doesn't allow him to blame the people who are responsible, he is born in an age of "hippies" where the people to blame is everyone that puts forth the temptation.

"Oh it wasn't the druggies fault, it was the damn government for not getting rid of drugs."

"Oh it wasn't the kid's fault killing everyone in the school, it was K-Mart's for selling bullets, and people who sell guns."

"Oh it wasn't Ossama Bin Laden's fault for destroying the WTC...it was Bush's because he wants to take over the Middle East in some giant blood-bath."

Shakespeare wrote an argument against such morons 500 years ago, probably expecting his play to be seen by such morons and hopefully sway them to realize they are morons.

In the bible, it is the sinner who is punished, not the one who puts forth the possibility of sin (Satan).

If you notice, Satan punishes himself, God does nothing to him. (This is discounting Revelations which has, in my opinion, NOTHING to do with morality or wisdom...it is almost an acid trip).

God punishes those who fall to temptation.

So shall we.

The time we punish those who powerless to stop temptation or to control a situation must end.

Michael Moore's character needs to be discussed because of that.

"Oh it wasn't the kid's fault killing everyone in the school, it was K-Mart's for selling bullets, and people who sell guns."

I'm not familiar with anything of Michael Moore except for Bowling for Columbine, but I didn't get this impression from Michael Moore. I just thought it was kind of funny how he attacked K-mart and Heston. The interview with Heston was hilarious actually. But anyway, the only thing I really remember from that movie were the statistics raised between US and other countries trying to explain why murder rates were so high. I never thought he came up with an answer in that movie, just that he was trying to provoke some thought on the subject.

But anyway, back to 9/11, still waiting to see it...

You think WAY too highly of yourself there mate.
You think your a God because of a degree?

I am not proud to say that I dropped out of High School in the 10th grade to help my single mother pay bills and get a head start in life. I was making an annual salary of $80,000 by the time I was 21 years of age. I'm now 26 years old, self employed and own two entertainment companies with a team of investors that support my efforts fully. Not because I'm some cocky guy who frequents discussion forums while trying to build up my ego as I copy and paste tid bits of articles found all over the web passed off as my own thoughts, rather because I know my field as you claim to know yours.

I do not claim to be God almighty when it comes to politics. I have my opinions and my beliefs.

I read the review you posted in the other thread. Garbage is the only thing I can call it. The writer of that article does nothing but take pot shots at Moore while doing nothing but posing his "opinions" on Moores work, never offering anything truly backing up his contentions. Sound familiar?

The review writer complains that Moore more or uses an array of facts molded into a fine system to comply with his overal statement...since when is this condemned? lol The writer makes mention of Moore only showing one side to his claims, leaving out "positive" issues etc.

In my opinion, we are getting enough of the "other" side in our daily doses of CNN and other major media outlets constantly filling us with what THEY want us to know and or see. Moore simply bring the other side to the public in a concise manner by which he is thus far very effective.

You don't have to like the movie, Moore himself or anyone supporting the movie, but one thing you simply can't deny with a straight face is that nothing in the film was fabrication and if the facts hurt the Bush fanbois, then it may be time to praise a new moron.

Overall, the fact is that what Moore presented is merely a snipplet of the truth. What I mean is, the Bush ties go much much deeper than mere Saudi relations but Moore made effort to maintain a specific direction in his effort without getting into conspiracy land thus leaving actual room for people to debate his stance or credability.

That's all I have to say. I'll watch you carry on for a bit now before I get bored of you and go to sleep.

Woah there, so you own small businesses but are such a communist you think that CNN is the "other side" of the argument.

What the hell are your views of Health Care then for your employees?

Or did I completely miss what you were getting at and you don't own anything?

And if you do, I don't see how you can be anti-Bush, his tax and economic plans for small businesses especially but all businesses in general are excellent.

Tax deductions for re-investment, small businesses buying into group health plans.

Maybe you should have stuck with an education because you seem to be supporting the "side" that wants to put people like you out of business through taxation.

FreeMason-
I know that moore has to be discussed, but i think the only discussion going on is either "he sucks!" or "praise him!" in variations. theres no "discussion." thats the problem. I think the shakespeare input was good!

ATSluv-

you say that the review was garabge because all the critic did was bash on moore...but...isnt that what moore did in his movies......???? oh wait! moore provides facts right? but wait.....doesnt the critic too.......???

just being the gevils advocate

Oh and you seem to dislike that one review but how about Chris Hitchen's review? A man far better to critique this political tripe than myself and certainly you.

I suggest you join in that thread defending the arguments of F9/11 rather than simply stating that the counter arguments are "mere conjecture".

Originally posted by Banshee
Warnings come next.
Both of you, cut it out NOW.

I dont want to start a fight and you know I only quote you to prove a point Banshee.


But you reap what you sow for making a forum dedicated to such an assinine attempt at a documentary.

What facts are in the review writers report?

I'd love to see them...

I'm going to let dude over there speak for himself, but although I haven't seen the movie yet, Moore's problem comes from more of a moral standpoint rather than an an economic basis. And as far as mass media, their role in relaying official government reports about events. And as far as on-site reporting during wars, the military's role in embedded reporting, and one-sided reporting about other events in Iraq. I've actually noticed though that CNN is much more liberal than other major news networks. But anyway...

Originally posted by ATSluvDroid
What facts are in the review writers report?

I'd love to see them...

I know alot of people that have said the same about Moore's movie!

OK, that was mean, but I had to! It was a perfect opportunity! But really, start quoting the film or the reviews, start debating specifics...that way you two wont just start name calling, you will be debating specific points.

Originally posted by ATSluvDroid
What facts are in the review writers report?

I'd love to see them...

Uhh hello, how about you just give us ONE fact that was stated in F9/11.

huh?

Just one...that's all I need.

But yet you keep bantering around with "Oh well it's all facts and this review has none".

Just give me one fact Moore stated.

Jesus, go watch the damn movie. there are two hours of facts to "rip apart"

lol

I'm not going to sit here and re-write the transcript skippy. It was a 2 hour documentary!

List one fact? Bush was never elected as President to begin with. Al Gore won, Bush's family changed everything around. His brother in Florida. His cousin or whomever at Fox news. etc etc.

Why were African American election votes not counted during the election in like 6 states? Because the Bush admin knew they were voting for Gore and fixed the election.

I don't remember all of the specific details but you can start there.

Oh, another fact. Saudi Arabia owns something like 7% of the USA. Meaning, they have something like 30 Trillion dollars invested in US corporations, a nice chunk of that in corporations the Bush Family owns.

If they were to pull out all of their funds in one lump chunk, it would send our economy into a tailspin.

Its Scat not Skip! If you must insist on using nicknames, just callm e catty or something, but make it have at least SOMETHING to do with the name! hahaha!

OK you speak of the rigged election...wheres the proof? Quote something, give me links, give me books! Better yet.....

give me your opinion.

NOT MICHAEL MOORES...lets hear YOURS!
dude that totally rhymed.