It's almost time

Originally posted by stereologist
This thread is long off topic despite my constant efforts to ask for evidence that a claim is true.

Since it is so off topic I must say that it reveals how poor our educational system is. It is stunning to me that people are unable to understand the difference between fact and opinion. What's even more interesting to me is the steadfast closed mind attitude that refuses to open the mind and the senses to learn the difference. Is this entrenched head in the sand behavior learned? Was this sad excuse for a school called LIOS responsible for this fear of learning? It seems to be. What flavor koolaid did this sorry excuse for a school offer?

I'm so past tired of wasting my time with blind carrots aka NWO stoogies. You obviously got assigned this thread, because there just isn't any other reason for you to keep dragging this on and on. You and your need for 'facts' would indicate to me too, as crankyoldman says, that you *are* seriously insecure. But on top of that, I'm pretty sure you're getting paid to be the NWO spin control here whenever someone won't ascribe to the NWO way of thinking and believing.

I hope you get paid per word, and not just a general salary, cuz you've earned lots of blood money if so. Your betrayal of humanity and it's highest good won't look good on your resume' for sure, once we all start making the shift into our spirit/light bodies. I doubt the E-l*th will bother with flunkies (which you most likely are) but other humans, once awakened aren't going to think kindly of your bad behavior.

What is stunning is how limited the current educational system is. We need look no further than right here in your posts. There isn't any room for 'instinct', gut hunches, and no acknowledgement at all of the whole psychic/spirit realm. How the NWO has spun and spun to make those topics into 'fantasy' or unknowable-ness to keep us as blind and deaf and dumb as possible, so they can control us that much better.

And actually the awareness/understanding that there is NO such thing as 'fact' is a rather advanced psychological and systemic-based concept, and I guess I shouldn't be surprised when NWO 'box' people don't (or won't) get it. Kinda like trying to get monkeys to understand complex mathematical equations. You'll not get it, ever, probably. *shrug*

But hey, be happy in your little box. The NWO loves you (for now). And thanks yet again for sharing your opinion.

Originally posted by crankyoldman
rather odd discussion of what is fact and opinion. The problem with the 2+2 pov is that 2+2 equals 4 only because we all agree. In some cultures they have no words to describe totals that serve them no purpose. There is no number for 1 million for example, the concept does not even exist for some cultures with no need for it. Some have stated here that 1 million is a fact, but only because a need for such a number came about and a certain number of folks agreed that is the way it is - and so it became. But it is not a fact, as said culture with no need for 1 million does not recognize it at all. Does recognition change the fact or solidify it? Neither, the fact is most cases is simply consensus agreement.

Which leads to the problem. Fact based people tend to be very, very insecure people who require a consensus to feel safe and secure. So they demand "proof" before the will agree to anything. The have adopted the scientific method, by default as it is a consensus, to help them determine what is fact. Now, the same people who invented science, and the word, also invented another word "con-science" or conscience. The two are not tied in the way people who are insecure wish, it is clear by those who infected us with the idea of "fact based" science, also saw the terrible limitation as it relates to matters of consciousness and suggest that much is a matter of not fact, but what one experiences and to that all manner of things are added to the mix that are not fact.

Science and fact are like performing monkeys. Monkeys who do the same thing over and over again are attractive because the perform and make one feel secure - we'll pay to see them peform. Monkeys who can't get into the fact world, who act according to their own sense of self, are dismissed and won't be paid to be seen.

The true effort of fact is to assert control. Man on earth is so insecure that they are not in control of everything, so they devise ways of "facting" up the world in order to control and feel safe. The irony is, if they let go of the "facting" they will find the simply are in control of everything that happens to them as they are simply projecting a reality that isn't fact at all but consciousness expressing itself.

Facts are limitations for the individual, but for the collective they are wonderful limitations as they make everyone feel safe.

There is only one fact, just one. Freewill, all other "facts" are illusions. The goal is to know that, not see it, or think it, but know it. Until then you are just limited by your own thinking.

Nice discussion of the 'fact verus opinion' thing! Thanks for your further explanation! Or of course, your own quite firm opinion of the said information! hahha

It is all about control, as you surmise! Just look at Stereo trying so hard to control what the people think who are reading this thread; like his rigid repetitive rhetoric about his supposedly unmet demands for 'facts' somehow convinces the other folks that what I say is a hoax or lie.

And all because I won't bother digging up articles or go to the trouble to reference any number of websites that expose/explain the NWO and their agenda. I did one---that's enough. It has references aplenty, which of course he disregards. As he would ANYTHING I brought to the table. I do, however, love how how he makes that disinterest on my part into more 'proof' to support his heavily spun but still quite simple minded negative opinion of me and the information I see in the racial unconscious. 'Facts', ya know! *rolls eyes* Right.

Since I keep getting posts to the contrary saying thanks for confronting Stereo, or don't mind him, he's always like that, etc, I'd like to think the average reader here is a much more independent and less controllable person; one who thinks for themselves based on what is 'true' for them.

That's why stoogies are so necessary here; try to keep these people contained! Use guilt, use shame, use 'logic', use 'facts'; keep those boxes on their head, or else make them believe they are idiots if they dare take them off (because he says so, of course, not because they really are). And for god's sake, don't ever let them start wondering if there really is more to all that non-'fact' based spiritual/psychic stuff. I would take it further though to say that lack of research into the spiritual realm is VERY intentional. The NWO so doesn't want any of that stuff proven.

But unfortunately, even freewill isn't a 'fact'. It is, however, our quite mutually agreed upon opinion of that state of awareness wherein we are in control of ourselves and only ourselves. We and we alone can choose the behaviors that serve our highest good or our basest nature, and nobody can make us do either, really, no matter how many 'facts' they may spout or what supposed 'proof' they may have.

Originally posted by crankyoldman
There is only one fact, just one. Freewill, all other "facts" are illusions. The goal is to know that, not see it, or think it, but know it. Until then you are just limited by your own thinking.

That, right there, should be quoted more than "One small step for man...". If I ever have a chance, I'm carving that in stone.
"There is only one fact, just one. Freewill, all other "facts" are illusions. The goal is to know that, not see it, or think it, but know it. Until then you are just limited by your own thinking." - crankyoldman, 2010

reply to post by DragonriderGal

There isn't any room for 'instinct', gut hunches, and no acknowledgement at all of the whole psychic/spirit realm.

What we do know is that people are often wrong with their whatever you want to call it. Take for isntance the idea that you can be "thrown clear of an accident." What about the idea that if you are in falling elevator and you jump at the right moment you won't be injured. These are 2 common myths that many people think are true. These are based on so-called instincts or gut hunches and are completely ridiculous beliefs.

The reason these instincts cannot be relied upon is because they are often wrong. The fact that you rely on your hunches and instincts is why you are so very wrong. Not only that, but you profess to listen to some delusional "racial unconscious".

And actually the awareness/understanding that there is NO such thing as 'fact' is a rather advanced psychological and systemic-based concept

That is again a ridiculous claim. Once again you are trying to cover your lies with more lies. You sound like a bad politician. You need to lie and then lie and then lie and you can't figure out where the truth ends and the fantacies begin.

Yes, there are facts and there are opinions and no amount of whining on your part changes that. If you were taught this at LIOS then go back and demand your money back because they are a real stinker if they taught you that.

And this is what you quoted from me.

his thread is long off topic despite my constant efforts to ask for evidence that a claim is true.

Are you ever going to stop attacking me and offer any evidence? No. It was an out and out lie from the start and all you can do is to feeble attempts to attack me.

reply to post by DragonriderGal

And all because I won't bother digging up articles or go to the trouble to reference any number of websites that expose/explain the NWO and their agenda. I did one---that's enough. It has references aplenty, which of course he disregards.

You lied about the brain article. That is why you won't reference it. A vague reference such as mentioning a website is not a proper reference. Didn't LIOS ever teach you anything at all about references? Apparently not.

The NWO is a fiction. Your repetitive claims that I am a member of this fiction does not support your failed claims.

reply to post by stereologist


I have always viewed science as a mere human representation of the truth. it is not what it identifies, as it were. In this line of thinking, science simply does not know what it can not identify, and specifically, measure. Meaning, there are things we dont know, period. If we knew everything, there would be zero need for anything like science or faith.

because of this, saying "lack of evidence" as some sort of "counter-proof" is silly at best.

things that are unknown are simply unknown until more evidence and patterns surface. and even then, things are skewed by bias, no? jumping beyond this and making conclusions without evidence is the same as you are so fervently speaking against. it is not science. now, speaking your mind on how you feel the events transpired, thats a good thing and is in the spirit of the exploration. This is not an area where things CAN be proven by current science, if indeed they can be proven at all. If you need "proof" of everything before it comes into your reality and perception as "possibility," it must feel rather like a prison.. It was "truth" before it was ever "proof."

If you acknowledge the possibility of these things, you sure dont show it...

But hey, what do i know anyway?

Originally posted by stereologist
reply to post by DragonriderGal

 

Are you ever going to stop attacking me and offer any evidence? No. It was an out and out lie from the start and all you can do is to feeble attempts to attack me.

Look who's talking. Aren't you the one who always take issues to a personal level? You didn't pay attention to 5/6th of the above two posts, and quoted what satisfied you.

You're clearly brainwashed by this non-fictional NWO. Honestly, you're into conspiracy theories and don't even acknowledge NWO? Isn't it like the base of all base? I'm gonna ask you something, and I hope you won't ignore the question: What are you doing wasting your time on ATS. Do you REALLY think you can control everybody with your evasive claims? Why are you wasting your time here? I mean, you don't believe in the NWO, 2012...You just don't believe in conspiracies. Don't you have better things to do? Hobbies, activities, job, friends? Or do you simply waste your time here? ATS is supposed to be a place where free and critical thinking is the norm? You're obviously NOT following the line here.

As the user mentioned above, "facts", as you claim, are not facts at all. Science is being re-written everyday. You say you hate speculation, and that is all 2012 is about. Did you know several scientific theories were based on speculation? Science is men's understanding of the universe. Men are ignorant, we simply don't understand anything at all. So what's the difference between your claimed "facts" and 2012 speculation? They're mostly both speculation, only science is a generally accepted speculation.

There was mythology, then religion, then science. Mythology and science were partly wrong, as science is as well. It forgets everything that is meta-physical, spiritual...These are extremely important, and real. I think the best formula would be science mixed with spirituality. Ancient civilizations understood this, and even though they didn't had the technology (probably) we have, they were more advanced than us.

So there goes my reply. You can go on, wandering through the 2012 forum denying everything for whatever reason. You can go on quoting one or two sentences/points I've brought to the table while ignoring the rest of my post, as you usually do. I've probably forgot half of what I wanted to tell you, but I just don't care anymore, seeing that you are so close-minded and that you'll never change your opinion and try to make everyone think like you. I'm not anti-debunker, I'm anti-arrogance.

reply to post by Gab1159

Look who's talking. Aren't you the one who always take issues to a personal level? You didn't pay attention to 5/6th of the above two posts, and quoted what satisfied you.

Please spend more time reading my emails. I stick to the topic. I am not going to waste a lot of time responding to ridiculous ad hominem attacks.

Do you REALLY think you can control everybody with your evasive claims?

That's a weird comment. I don't believe in ridiculous fiction such as the NWO. My claims are evasive? How weird. My statements are in general about facts.

Don't you have better things to do? Hobbies, activities, job, friends? Or do you simply waste your time here?

Is that what you do? Do you not have hobbies and friends? Do you not have a job? Are you wasting your time?

ATS is supposed to be a place where free and critical thinking is the norm? You're obviously NOT following the line here.

Does this thinking allow dragonridergirl to tell lies about journal articles? Does this allow people to claim that a photo shows a nonexistent planet. Does this suggest that people should be close minded to evidence that shows things are not as they claim?

As the user mentioned above, "facts", as you claim, are not facts at all. Science is being re-written everyday. You say you hate speculation, and that is all 2012 is about. Did you know several scientific theories were based on speculation? Science is men's understanding of the universe. Men are ignorant, we simply don't understand anything at all. So what's the difference between your claimed "facts" and 2012 speculation? They're mostly both speculation, only science is a generally accepted speculation.

Maybe you should take a few courses and learn about your mistakes. For example, science is being rewritten every day does not mean that the facts have changed. What is considered a fact does change. Facts are not the same as truth. If this is confusing take a course. In general most of science is not being rewritten every day. That is a nonsense claim made by fringe authors and those that have little understanding of science. Sure things change. No one would involved if it were static.

Your claim that facts are not facts at all is a nonsense claim. That makes no sense. That is the same as saying trees are not trees at all, or stone is not stone at all. I have never stated that I hate speculation. If you think I have stated that then please show me where. I don't believe that you are telling a fib here so much as you have made a huge misinterpretation.

To claim that men are ignorant is a dubious claim. That suggests quite strongly that you have little understanding of the world, are young, and need to be educated. That's OK. That error is due to youth. You probably have a lot of energy and will be a successful person. During that time you will develop wisdom and understand just how awesome people are at understanding the world around them.

So what is the difference between my facts and 2012 speculation. Let me give you a simple example. 2012 folks at time claim that there is an unknown large object headed our way. It's a planet sized object and it will cause all sorts of catastrophes as it has before. This is speculation. Why? Has this planet been seen? No. Have catastrophes been reported on a periodic basis? No.

Facts. Planets have mass. Mass is associated with a force called gravity. Planets and other celestial bodies are reflective. If there was a new mass in the solar system, then its gravity would affect the paths of other planetary objects. Is there any accounted for planetary sized mass in the solar system. No. That's a fact. Has any planet size object been observed within 8X the distance to Pluto? No.

We have facts. Facts allow us to make predictions. The predictions are no new planets when gravity is considered. No new planets when infrared, or the optical portion of the spectrum is used.

Can there be new planets? Yes, but they have to be very, very far away and never enter the orbits of the known planets.

I think the best formula would be science mixed with spirituality.

Please learn why you can't mix these two.

Ancient civilizations understood this, and even though they didn't had the technology (probably) we have, they were more advanced than us.

Can you explain this? It makes no sense to me.

... seeing that you are so close-minded and that you'll never change your opinion

Actually, you are extremely close minded. You refuse to understand the evidence. A good example of this was your recent posting of images from NASA. You could nave taken the time to read the NASA website to understand the limitation of the images. No. Instead you made a claim that the image did indeed show a new planet. To make such a statement without knowledge of the images is a clear sign of a closed mind. But, you can open your mind to the evidence.

I'm anti-arrogance.

Not at all. You just hate being shown wrong. You could do a better job of checking the facts before you make strange claims, but you choose not to and you hate it when it is clear that you are wrong.

reply to post by stereologist


Ok, not going to waste my time with such a lost case, so let's be quick.

1) You didn't understand my whole point, or simply ignoring it.
2) I've seen you quite a couple of time derailing topics.
3) Show me your said facts NWO is fictional. Then I'll start to consider what you just wrote about it.
4)

Does this thinking allow dragonridergirl to tell lies about journal articles? Does this allow people to claim that a photo shows a nonexistent planet. Does this suggest that people should be close minded to evidence that shows things are not as they claim?

Who are you, thinking you can allow people to stop believing whatever they do? Wow seriously...
5) I hope you didn't take my "science his being rewritten everyday", as it is a figurative statement. And if you want a true fact: facts sometimes change, and it's based on our understanding of the universe. Note here the "our", which doesn't mean "absolute/truth". So my claim that facts aren't always facts is valid.

Humans are, indeed, extremely ignorant. Maybe it hurts your ego, but it's true. What do I mean by ignorant? We know very little about space, about our own Earth, about other dimensions, about basically everything. We are not the most evolved we can be. In 1,000 years, if we even make it, we'll be way more intelligent, and little bit less ignorant. You claim we are not, and that I think this way because of youth? What a weak support to your claim. You probably think you know more than me because you're older, and I have no problems with you feeding your own ego, however, believe it or not, humans are ignorant. This is part of our nature, always searching the key of understanding. Thinking about not being ignorant is pure arrogance and ignorance. Most people think that way...

That suggests quite strongly that you have little understanding of the world, are young, and need to be educated. That's OK. That error is due to youth. You probably have a lot of energy and will be a successful person. During that time you will develop wisdom and understand just how awesome people are at understanding the world around them.

Ego feeding: you are old, sage, full of wisdom and fully educated.
Now spare me the personal assault!

I'm starting to see I'm not making it quick, too bad.

So now let's talk about the 2012 part of your last post. You don't believe in Planet X, saw me post a thread about a picture that I thought was depicting a "planetary body", and now you're all over it. You could have used another "example" to prove your point, honestly. Planet X is no way the most credible theory about 2012. However, there are some physical facts (I know you'd like it) suggesting SOMETHING (not necessarily Planet X) is changing as we speak. Here are some interesting articles, food for thoughts, that you can debunk as you like:
- 2012rising.com...
- www.dailymail.co.uk... (not necessarily linked to 2012, interesting nonetheless)
- www.soulsofdistortion.nl...
- stevebeckow.com... (Some speculation, but it doesn't hurt)
- www.youtube.com... (watch all the parts)

And I could go on. Surely they ain't all true, but there are some scientific "facts" that are suggesting it COULD happen.

Can there be new planets? Yes, but they have to be very, very far away and never enter the orbits of the known planets.

This is wrong. What about if our solar system is a binary one. What about the supposed "Nemesis" scientists just may have found? Raises questions...

Please learn why you can't mix these two.

Sorry, I see it as way better than plain science. Now YOU tell me why it's not good...And I'm being sincere here, please tell me why you think that way.

Can you explain this? It makes no sense to me.

No, I won't explain it all. This would take too much time, as their is so much evidence. I'm not necessarily linking everything here, but a quick Google search should do the trick. I actually wrote a poor sentence. I should have said "They were more spiritually advanced than us". Why is that? First of all, ever noticed all the spiritual places were on the same lines? Be it pyramids, Stonehenge, the mayan pyramids, etc...Every single ancient nations built their cult places on the same grid, a sacred geometrical pattern, called the 144-crystalline grid. So how could they know? Another "how could"...how could they all decide they wanted to build massive pyramids? Another one, how could the precisely map the sky with the naked eye, mapping stars we have discovered a couple of years ago. How could they be so precise in everything they were doing, be it building, astronomical discoveries and happenings...How could they build the crystal skulls. OK, THIS QUESTION IS IMPORTANT. I really want your input on the crystal skulls, apparently built by freshly "civilized humans", who just came out of caves. We can't even replicate the skulls with so much precision now. How could they...

I mean, there are so many wrong things about ancient civilization. We don't understand them, we don't give them enough credits. They were more advanced than we think, and they MAY have been more, or as intelligent than us. I would call the Great Pyramids to support this claim. We can't even make something like this now...do you really think poorly fed slaves would have done this with so much precision, with the help of a single big ramp? Maybe you don't, but that's the mainstream idea, which is adopted by many many many people, including some of your beloved scientists. It's still the less evidence filled claim, and the most non-sense if you want my personal input on this one.

I'm not close-minded at all, I simply do not put 100% of my trust in science. It doesn't mean I'm close-minded. My recent thread about an alleged Planet X has nothing to do with your claim. This isn't even connecting the dots here. Actually, I don't trust NASA at all, and I think it's legitimate. They've hidden so much thing, why wouldn't they hide any data about a world changing upcoming event? The best example I could give you is the blurred/smudged/melted/colorless pictures of the Moon. There are so much blurred out squares...why would they blur a rock eh? I could also point you the obvious fake "we're walking on the Moon" video. I'm not saying we didn't walk on it, but the video itself is ridiculously filled with non-sense. See the video here: www.youtube.com... Now watch is carefully, and notice how the NASA employee's debunking is poor with no substance at all, compared to the "hoax theorists"'s claims. For me it's so obvious NASA isn't honest, why would I trust any of their manipulated data? That's not being close-minded, au contraire. That's being able to see outside of this governmental tool. Considering a lot of other scientific discoveries and analysis are based on NASA's own data, I think it's reasonable to question myself.

"Absence of proof is not proof of absence". Their is more to science, things science itself can't measure. I'm talking about the metaphysical here. The spiritual as well. You can't simply deny spirituality as non-scientific, as those who experience deep meditation experience and dedicate their lives to the spiritual realm aren't simply making things up, or be victim of the placebo effect. Their is something unmeasurable that is happening to them, and it's there, existent.

Not at all. You just hate being shown wrong. You could do a better job of checking the facts before you make strange claims, but you choose not to and you hate it when it is clear that you are wrong.

Once again, who are you, thinking you know me better than myself? This is exactly the arrogance I was talking about. Wow, this is shocking. Couldn't find a better example of someone feeding it's ego. Listen Stereo, you don't know me at all. How can you come with such a claim.

I actually LOVE to be proven wrong, because I hate floating in ignorance, corruption, lies, and illusions. All I'm seeking is truth, hence the reason of my presence on this website. We all know you're not a 2012 believer, coming in every single 2012 thread and debunking it. However, there are many theories, claimed "false" by you, that can't be debunked until 2012 has passed. Did you remember what Einstein said? I can't find the exact quote, but he said something in those lines: "Trying to prove wrong a theory before it happens is a sign of human's stupidity". Connect the dots.

To end this massive post, I'm gonna refer you to my signature.

From the psy-ops rule book:
When you cannot make a valid counter-point question the judgement and character of your opponent instead. Idiots wont be able to tell the difference.

I've seen you do the trick a couple of times...

EDIT: Actually, thank you. Arguing with you made me discover so many things!
EDIT2: The 144-crystalline grid part of this post may seem loose to you without sources. I feel it's needed: www.childrenofthesun.org... & www.scribd.com...

reply to post by ammilam

The date is December 2012 that means its 26 months away not 14 - being as December is at the very end of the year

lol i was going to post the same thing. i guess some one didn't do their math before posting this thread. and its very funny that it took this long for any one to catch that huge mistake. it kind of makes me wonder about people on this site........

reply to post by Gab1159

1) You didn't understand my whole point, or simply ignoring it.
2) I've seen you quite a couple of time derailing topics.
3) Show me your said facts NWO is fictional. Then I'll start to consider what you just wrote about it.

Telling people the facts is derailing topics? LOL.

I don't have to show that the NWO is fictional. It is up to the claimant to show that it exists.

4. Are you serious? LOL.

And if you want a true fact: facts sometimes change, and it's based on our understanding of the universe. Note here the "our", which doesn't mean "absolute/truth". So my claim that facts aren't always facts is valid.

Facts can change. I said that as well. You are confusing facts with truth. Your claim that "facts aren't always facts is valid." is silly. Facts are facts. Just because a fact turns out to be wrong or has to be modified does not change what is meant by fact. The occasional necessity of altering facts is what makes facts what they are.

Humans are, indeed, extremely ignorant. Maybe it hurts your ego, but it's true. What do I mean by ignorant?

Again you are quite wrong. The fact that there is more to learn does not make humans ignorant. That's a ridiculous conclusion. It comes across as a rather childish statement. It's that teen rebellion lashing out. It's based on a lack of understanding.

Thinking about not being ignorant is pure arrogance and ignorance.

Again more lack of understanding of what people are capable of doing. Step aside and read your statements as if someone else wrote these lines. You sound entrenched in your own misery. Humans have been highly skilled problem solvers for millennia. That is a fact often purposely overlooked by the frauds and charlatans that write fringe claims. They'd like you to believe how ignorant humans are.

Look at all of the ancient monuments that have been constructed. These were built without the benefit of modern machines and tools. We wonder today how they built these. So hoaxers claim that people are ignorant and could never do it themselves. They did. People worked out methods that allowed them to construct magnificent structures using available resources.

Here are some interesting articles, food for thoughts, that you can debunk as you like:

1. a rather boring article with few facts and lots of misrepresentations
2. mention in link 1
3. hoax site - misrepresents the term fractal
4. some speculation? LOL, it's almost completely rubbish.

This is wrong. What about if our solar system is a binary one. What about the supposed "Nemesis" scientists just may have found? Raises questions...

You simply have no idea how gravitational studies are done. Even if there is a Nemesis, which the latest IR satellite has pretty much excluded from existing, no planets can enter the orbits of the known planets. There is no missing mass in that part of the solar system.

Sorry, I see it as way better than plain science. Now YOU tell me why it's not good...And I'm being sincere here, please tell me why you think that way.

Science concerns itself with questions that can be answered. To mix in issues that cannot be answered or tested is pointless. One of the basic notions of science is the ability to potentially show that a scientific theory (not a speculation as in the vernacular) is false.

From Karl Popper at Science as Falsification

Every genuine test of a theory is an attempt to falsify it, or to refute it.

So you claim that ancients were more spiritual than us. That is true. I recommend reading Eliade's book, "The Sacred and the Profane." instead of the rubbish claims on the net such as:
1. crystalline grid - it's made up poppycock
2. the ancients could not see stars as you claim - that's a hoax
3. ancients were excellent builders - I heartily agree. It is an excellent demonstration of how humans are not ignorant.
4. crystal skulls - are you talking about the originals or the millions of knock off made for the New Age market?
5. never watch the videos - don't want to waste 10 minutes watching something with less than 1 minute of content

You call the ancients intelligent. Bravo. They were and we are. Sure we can make a Great Pyramid. Hoaxers and frauds that say we can't are liars. It's stacked blocks. We can do that today. We choose not to. How did the ancients do it? There is a reason ramps are suggested. You might want to take a course in Egyptology to find out instead of reading some frauds claim that we are unable to built a pyramid with modern equipment.

You say you are open minded, yet your paranoia makes that difficult. Being open minded does not mean accepting every stupid claim that comes down the pike. Develop tools to weed out the ridiculous claims. Your claims that some of the moon landing videos are fake just means you are falling for the frauds that make these nonsense claims.

The people claiming that NASA did not land on the moon are laughable. Here you are supporting their claims because the liar is a good liar and the truth teller is not a good speaker.

... and dedicate their lives to the spiritual realm aren't simply making things up ...

And how do you know that they are delusional? You can't. You even state that it is "unmeasurable", but it exists. No. It does not exist. You simply accept without evidence that it exists. That is why as I said before you should mix faith and science.

This is exactly the arrogance I was talking about. Wow, this is shocking.

There is nothing shocking here. Just because you are wrong or think you are wrong makes you lash out with claims of arrogance. Why so defensive? It's youth speaking out.

Arguing with Stereo is pointless IMO - was doing the same thing in the Timewave thread. 4000 posts since joining this year as well - seems like Stereo has a serious debunking need, hehe.

Seriously though, Stereo's arguments are all based on cold, hard logic which is fair enough. But this is in part about things that exist outside the realm of logic and current scientific understanding. To Stereo that makes them bogus, which is ok - just wish you would move on since you have nothing to gain here.

Well, besides trolling an otherwise pleasant conversation.

reply to post by stereologist


Stereo, you always ask for sources. I provided you with videos and articles, and you didn't even bother to look at them because you didn't want to waste your time, apparently. Seriously, what is wrong? Isn't this going against your own believes? I give you links, you don't look at them. How can we maintain a healthy discussion?

As for the Moon, watch the video, and debunk it. You'll do no better than the NASA scientist. You misinterpreted me, I said we may have been on the Moon, however, the video itself is obviously fake. I do not follow anyone, I watch the video, hear both sides of the story, and create my own believes.

Once again, I provided you with video and you debunked them without taking a look? How much credibility should I attribute you?

As for your "rubbish" "plain BS" claims of the articles I posted, why? Is "hoax" "BS" "rubbish" the only arguments of your debunking? It's kind of poor...

And I was obviously talking about the original crystal skulls. What are your thoughts on this one. Because there is something that doesn't add up with the commonly accepted scientific view of our own history.

And to close this post, I'm gonna ask you to stop bringing "youth" into the discussion, which is blatant arrogance.

As the user above me mentioned, how pointless this whole argumentation was...

reply to post by Cecilofs


So you are into making off the cuff statements without regard to whether or not they are truthful. Fortunately in the case of TWZ the time is nearly when I get to laugh heartily at the ridiculous nature of people following a plot that is not related to reality.

reply to post by Gab1159

I provided you with videos and articles, and you didn't even bother to look at them ...

Reading and comprehension are important skills. I avoided the videos and did read the written material. I even mentioned that one of the links was a link inside of one of the articles. So please don't make a false claim that I did not look at the written material when that is completely wrong.

In general I do not bother with videos. The material is 10X as long as the written counterpart. Some videos manage to place 15 seconds of reading in 10 minutes of bad music and visuals.

Once again, I provided you with video and you debunked them without taking a look?

Again, reading and comprehension is a must.

As for your "rubbish" "plain BS" claims of the articles I posted, why?

I call them as I see them. There is no difference between a post in a forum and the claims of a rubbish site.

And I was obviously talking about the original crystal skulls. What are your thoughts on this one. Because there is something that doesn't add up with the commonly accepted scientific view of our own history.

And why is that? The original skulls were quickly augmented with fakes. One of the earliest fakes I am aware of is the Mitchell-Hedges skull from the late 1920s. That skull was claimed to be extraterrestrial or Atlantean, I can't recall which. The skull was not from Central America. It was actually acquired at auction in 1943 from Sotheby's. Mitchell-Hedge is a fraud. His claims are fraudulent.

He claimed it was old and found in Belize and took hundreds of years to make. Not true. People from the expedition never saw the find. Mitchell-Hedges does not mention the skull until just after he bought it at the auction.

They had all sorts of ridiculous claims including that the piece was pure rock crystal, i.e. quartz, and was carved against the "grain of the crystal." That laughable. Quartz crystal does not have any "grain." It breaks with conchoidal fractures!

And to close this post, I'm gonna ask you to stop bringing "youth" into the discussion, which is blatant arrogance.

I think you need to go get a dictionary and learning the meaning of arrogance. I would also point out that it was you that supposed an age difference. That may be correct. It may be incorrect. It seems rather clear to me that regardless of your actual age, you do act like a teenager. A good example is how you misuse the word arrogance.

Here is a recent online article about the fake crystal skulls going back nearly 100 years. This is from Archaeology, a respected publication.
The Skull of Doom

The microscopic evidence presented here indicates that the skull is not a Maya artifact but was carved with high-speed, modern, diamond-coated lapidary tools. The historical record shows it first appeared in London in 1933 and was purchased a decade later by Mitchell-Hedges, who claimed the crystal skull was an authentic pre-Columbian artifact. The newly found archival evidence suggests Anna was later involved in the evolution of tall tales about the skull’s origins, providing a fascinating look at the creation of a popular mythology in service of a profitable business venture.

That about sums it up. The evidence is incredibly clear that this is a fake that was made to take money from the gullible.

reply to post by stereologist


What is your opinion on the real ones. Stop avoiding the question. Some are fake, I'm not denying. But I want to hear what you have to say about the real ones. You get it?

Originally posted by stereologist
reply to post by DragonriderGal

 

There isn't any room for 'instinct', gut hunches, and no acknowledgement at all of the whole psychic/spirit realm.

What we do know is that people are often wrong with their whatever you want to call it. Take for isntance the idea that you can be "thrown clear of an accident....
*Snip*
...attack me.

Nope, not attacking you. Just pointing out the obvious, Mr. NWO spun flunkie/stoogie. All your opinions are just that, opinions.. maybe right for you (or you are being paid to say them because that is the NWO bosses want), but they are pretty lame seeming to me.

And simply because I don't feel like digging up the actual papers and such, doesn't mean I lie.. simply means I don't consider YOU or your opinion worth the effort. Now if that hurts your feelings so you have to insist that I must be lying, so be it. *shrug* I know what I know, and your whining doesn't change that a whit. But hey, if you wanna use that as proof, that's your choice, lame as it may be, and a tactic that most people see right thru.

And the opinion verus 'fact' concept is advanced. Obviously. YOU absolutely don't get it; I wonder if you even can. *shrug*

And your examples of 'hunches'... wow. No win situations have no solutions, and have nothing to do with "hunches"; they are more in the urban myth catagory.. not at all instinct or hunch. I'm talking about things that make your life better if you pay attention to them, or worse if you don't.

But since you don't give your feelings (if you even allow yourself to feel them, that is) any credence, of course you wouldn't have any idea what I am talking about---pretty much the problem here.. you seem to live strictly in the NWO spun box which is all about their idea of 'logic' and 'science' and nothing about honoring your feelings and learning to be more emotionally competent. Completely alien concepts, I am sure.

Originally posted by Cecilofs
Arguing with Stereo is pointless IMO - was doing the same thing in the Timewave thread. 4000 posts since joining this year as well - seems like Stereo has a serious debunking need, hehe.

Seriously though, Stereo's arguments are all based on cold, hard logic which is fair enough. But this is in part about things that exist outside the realm of logic and current scientific understanding. To Stereo that makes them bogus, which is ok - just wish you would move on since you have nothing to gain here.

Well, besides trolling an otherwise pleasant conversation.

Not really cold hard logic.. simply limited in what he will or won't accept as valid information because he doesn't allow himself to access and use his feelings. That 'knowingness' that I've mentioned. He tries to act like a computer and abuses anyone who won't agree with him and his opinion, even though there is a whole level of awareness that is beyond what 'science' is allowed to prove. And Stereo uses that like a hammer.. ohhh See! There isn't ANY proof!! Hoax, lies! What a stoogie. He is like a fish in the water.. he can't even see how limited he is by the very water he swims in. And if he does, he isn't getting paid to agree with anyone who won't swim in the same dirty waters.

But it is fruitless/pointless to beat a dead horse, true. Just can't abide bullies is all.. that older sister issue that I haven't gotten around to dealing with yet, ya know! *lol*

Originally posted by Gab1159
reply to post by stereologist

 

Stereo, you always ask for sources. I provided you with videos and articles, and you didn't even bother to look at them because you didn't want to waste your time, apparently. Seriously, what is wrong? Isn't this going against your own believes? I give you links, you don't look at them. How can we maintain a healthy discussion?

As for the Moon, watch the video, and debunk it. You'll do no better than the NASA scientist. You misinterpreted me, I said we may have been on the Moon, however, the video itself is obviously fake. I do not follow anyone, I watch the video, hear both sides of the story, and create my own believes.

Once again, I provided you with video and you debunked them without taking a look? How much credibility should I attribute you?

As for your "rubbish" "plain BS" claims of the articles I posted, why? Is "hoax" "BS" "rubbish" the only arguments of your debunking? It's kind of poor...

And I was obviously talking about the original crystal skulls. What are your thoughts on this one. Because there is something that doesn't add up with the commonly accepted scientific view of our own history.

And to close this post, I'm gonna ask you to stop bringing "youth" into the discussion, which is blatant arrogance.

As the user above me mentioned, how pointless this whole argumentation was...

Yah, arguing with Stereo is like arguing with a funky old rooster. He just struts around, making all these clucking noises, with the occasional squawking/flapping when something doesn't go his way. I'm sure he's sure that he is impressing everyone with his 'superior' mental abilities and clever repartees even though as you point out, he disregards any information source you bring to the table, and attacks the other poster with claims of hoaxing and lying when they don't use HIS approved sources (whatever they may be) which you just know he already knows don't exist, which is why he can be so arrogant about it.

And boy oh boy, he must also believe that if you say it enough times, everyone will believe it's true, cuz he has repeated himself endlessly in his 'rebuttals' (being kind here) of my information. But the funny thing is, I really don't think he sees how obvious he is.

He just has to be a NWO stoogie to hang around here debunking everything ATS stands for; I mean the NWO is a central part of this whole conspiracy thing, but yet he says it doesn't exist... he says he's just denying ignorance when in fact he seems to be trying to do is push us all back into the same stinky little NWO spun box of logic and science and needing hard 'evidence' that he insists is the 'proven' truth.

I am quite sure, away from here, he is perfectly aware that there won't be hard 'evidence' of the NWO or even the spirit realm level of things, like reincarnation, our connection to the racial unconsious, and so on. The NWO has made sure of that. So, he is essentially telling us to deny anything that doesn't fit into his own stinky little 'approved' box. It has nothing to do with ignorance, and everything to do with trying to control what we think, just like his NWO masters pay him to do.

I still hold by the TROLL badge... I got a warning for calling him a troll, and here we are... 12 pages later, he's still steering this thread way off topic. I really didn't think this thread was about debating the legitimacy, it was about "if you believe" or "let's just assume the SHTF...", but apparently the thread has been re-purposed for stereo's own playground.

How nice of the mods to give him such a privilege.