Honestly, What More Proof Do We Really Need?

Flares, laughable. I think you all do a discredit to the witnesses and find your own comfy zone by attributing such incidents down to flares. It really is laughable because it raises the point that NON of you have even bothered to read about such phenomena and it's history, Jacques valllee and Richard Dolan are just names to you people. You all beg for answers yet you seem uninterested in the literature. Ill say it like i see it.

Governments lie.

Timothy good, Jacques vallee and Richard Dolan do not, unless you're a half wit.

Originally posted by TheWatcher11
Flares, laughable. I think you all do a discredit to the witnesses and find your own comfy zone by attributing such incidents down to flares. It really is laughable because it raises the point that NON of you have even bothered to read about such phenomena and it's history, Jacques valllee and Richard Dolan are just names to you people. You all beg for answers yet you seem uninterested in the literature. Ill say it like i see it.

Governments lie.

Timothy good, Jacques vallee and Richard Dolan do not, unless you're a half wit.

Yes, flares are a laughable explanation for this event, unless we are to believe they were dropped all over the state and hung in the air for hours. I was in the military and saw plenty of flares in my time and I know what they do and how long they stay up there. These didn't even look like flares and they definitely didn't act like them.

Unless someone is totally desperate to debunk this story with any explanations that come to hand then flares do not explain the events. I know, it does get very tiresome--so many ludicrous attempts at debunking that do not conform with anything the witnesses or documents actually state.

reply to post by witness63


Debunking is easy, it takes an educated mind to reach out to the witnesses. People can be easily confused and thats agreed however i doubt that over 50 years of documented testimony are inaccurate. i saw one myself when i was young. The arrogance is staggering because i know that the ones debunking are half brained and uneducated. Philip Klass springs to mind.

There is nothing new under the sun.

Governments lie.

And the truth shall set you free.

reply to post by Vanchatron


You forgot about flares being thrown out of helo's.

I'm with you brother. Its just too much out there for us to simply ignore it. History shows us that these beings have been here for quite some time. Too many ancient texts and ancient pictures. We even worship a God. By it's very definition he would be alien to us. A spirit creating the heavans, the earth and life is not of this world that's for sure.

Problem is, too many people like to hoax stuff for their own amusement or debunk the truth.

I've told my story before. Flying Saucers are real. There was nothing Unidentified about the Flying Object I saw. It was a flying saucer. The one I saw when I was a kid was able to maintain one particular spot in the air for a long duration of time at about two hundred feet away from me without any sign of physical effort at all. There were no sounds. There were no blades or jets. It was an advanced technology. It was simply there for a minute or two, and then it was gone--with a streak of light as far across the sky as the eye could see.

It's the same story I've told to anyone that was interested for over thirty years. There was no confusion about what it was, because it was so close. I'd like to think that if I wanted to make up a story to get attention or pull a hoax that I could it least come up with some more elaborate and entertaining details.

What we need is for them light bulb head aliens

is to step up to the plate and give us the results

of all them probes they been doing to us.

In exchange..we will take them to the

International house of pancakes.

(It is well known that with all their technology they can't make a good pancake.)

Originally posted by witness63
Yes, flares are a laughable explanation for this event, unless we are to believe they were dropped all over the state and hung in the air for hours.

Are you saying flares don't explain the popular video made around 10pm, seen here?



Most people agree that's flares, so it's hard to call the flares explanation untrue with regard to that video.

To claim that something else was seen earlier wasn't caused by flares is a more believable claim, however the lack of any good video evidence of that like we have of the flares is a little disappointing.

Originally posted by Arbitrageur

Originally posted by witness63
Yes, flares are a laughable explanation for this event, unless we are to believe they were dropped all over the state and hung in the air for hours.

Are you saying flares don't explain the popular video

Most people agree that's flares, so it's hard to call the flares explanation untrue with regard to that video.

To claim that something else was seen earlier wasn't caused by flares is a more believable claim, however the lack of any good video evidence of that like we have of the flares is a little disappointing.

I don't think that flares even remotely describe what the witnesses from all over Arizona described that night--for the UFOs were not just seen over Phoenix. I know from experience that these UFO sightings did not look anything like flares.

reply to post by Arbitrageur


Lets deal with the flares and actually see how the PTB react.

By 9pm people across a couple of States are reporting this huge object in the sky. Not a few lights but a huge solid object flying, relatively sedately on course that has now taken it over phoenix where it has been seen by a considerable amount of people and they are beginning to become a little nervy...

Now in the first instance, the Military state that they had no aircraft in the air or scheduled to be in the air.Then, at 10 pm, the residents of Phoenix see another set of lights, similar but not the same as the solid object that was viewed earlier. By now, many of the public are tooled up with cameras and lo and behold, they manage to capture some pretty good footage.

Now, the Military ain't that daft, they know that TV is, primarily a visual media. The only decent footage of tonight's events are the later set of lights, so the fix is done and dusted without them really having to do very much at all. The object, which is still unexplained and far far more impressive than little group of lights, is now forgotten by the media and the whole incident becomes focused on the lights over the mountains near Phoenix.

Of course, then the military trot out the .."Oh there were Air Guardsmen from the Maryland wing practicing dropping flares.... case solved.

This is doubly clever because it gives the impression that the Air National Guard, are really just a bunch of amateurs and they might have been forgotten about, as of no real consequence and so excuses their earlier briefing about *no activity being scheduled. Only the Air National Guard from Maryland aren't quite a bunch of Sunday Soldiers. They have been on active service for most of the 90s, in Iraq, Bosnia, etc etc. In fact the 175th, as i believe they are , have won the Air Force target shooting competition at least once in their existence and pretty recently. They are used as a test bed for new weapon systems. So, far from a bunch of Sunday Flyers, who the military had *overlooked* , they are actually , in effect, an integral full time part of the Air Force. Once you understand that about the Maryland flyers it is easy to see they were scrambled at short notice and told to perform the flare drop, in order to get the military off the hook. As they are, in reality, a part of the mainstream Air Force, they can be trusted and are well under the auspices of the Military Command not to speak out in public about their mission and quite why they were told to do it.

reply to post by TheWatcher11


How are flares "laughable" for explaining the 10pm event? Simply put, the explanation fits the videos (all of them), and it has been shown that the lights did not exceed the burn time for the flares, and that they disappear just as they would if they were obscured by the mountain, which is consistent with the National Guard statement.

I've read Vallee, Good, and many others, and I feel they too would accept the flare explanation for the 10pm event.
The 8pm event is a different sighting completely though...but not near as much evidence for it.

I agree with you that Klass was pretty much a debunker....but there is also nothing wrong with healthy skepticism. Believe me, I wish the flares didn't fit for Phoenix (the video-taped sighting event that night)...but the fact is, they do...and no amount of wishing can change that.

Now in the first instance, the Military state that they had no aircraft in the air or scheduled to be in the air.Then, at 10 pm, the residents of Phoenix see another set of lights, similar but not the same as the solid object that was viewed earlier. By now, many of the public are tooled up with cameras and lo and behold, they manage to capture some pretty good footage.

You have to remember, the press contacted the Air Force (not the visiting Air National Guard unit)...so yes, the Air Force didn't have anything up then. I think this is the biggest factor in why there wasn't an early identification.

reply to post by Gazrok


You have to remember, the press contacted the Air Force (not the visiting Air National Guard unit)...so yes, the Air Force didn't have anything up then. I think this is the biggest factor in why there wasn't an early identification.

Read my post, it totally destroys the myth that these were Part Time Flyers who had been forgotten about. I am willing to bet the following. There was no Air activity scheduled for that night and they knew damn well that included the Maryland flyers Most likely, a single A10 was sent up to drop flares piloted by a ranking officer who was considered a "safe pair of hands". The flare drop was wholly to deflect attention away from the earlier sighting of a solid huge object cruising, at will, through US air space.

Good job in believing, there are plenty enough skeptics out there to do all the doubting.

What kills me about these debates is that each ufo case is looked at by the skeptics as if it's the first and only one of its kind. As if the ufo phenomenon just started happening yesterday. Dr. John E Mack, who wrote about the abduction phenomenon was initially skeptical, but by the end of his research admitted that after researching and questioning case after case certain patterns of truth were revealed that could not be denied. When it comes to the ufo subject there are plenty of patterns off truth evident dating back to either tens of years , hundreds of years, or thousands of years depending on your point of view.

As well the skeptics fail to acknowledge the immense effort and inexhaustible resources that go into preventing physical evidence from surfacing or getting out.

For me, thousands of file cabinets full of anecdotal evidence from experts, ex military, government officials and everyday ordinary citizens who have nothing to gain and more to lose by sharing their stories is reason enough to believe something is up and for me all this effort is most likely covering up something bigger rather than smaller. Something like alien visitation makes perfect sense and follows many patterns of truth.

reply to post by Vanchatron


i agree and could not say it better , thats the best reply ive ever read

reply to post by Human_Alien


Rockets. You forgot rockets. The ones that 'spiral out of control'.

2nd line.

Originally posted by boomadatigger

Originally posted by Jezus
For some people this issue isn't about proof, it is about "group think".

People have certain preconceived notions and "feelings" about this topic that prevent them from thinking critically or considering the evidence objectively.

If a person doesn't want to believe it is always possible to rationalize the evidence away.

Even a direct personal experience could be dismissed as an hallucination after the fact.

Once people feel that others who are similar to them are interested in the topic they too will think about it.

"Group think" prevents rational thought.

But in the end many people will claim "I always knew the were real..."

I don't think its group think per se, I think they're so used to a particular pattern of thought that it becomes routine, i.e. second nature. Adhering to a pattern hinders critical thinking. This applies to both the believers and the non believers.

Well "group think" is exactly what creates the pattern.

Some people could have a direct personal experience and rationalize it as some unexplained hallucination phenomenon.

These very same people will claim "I always believed in aliens" once everyone else does.

These were not flares. What a joke. The Phoenix Lights for one were seen as a full solid object by witnesses on the ground...not flares. Flares don't travel hundreds of miles across a state. What is so difficult to accept that there is an alien presence on this planet, for whatever reason they are here? The sightings, proof in photos and videos, the UN and vactican preparing and adknowling a high chance of first contact...and sorry, huge projectors in the sky and bleating about some NWO plan makes no sense. The project bluebeam crap is a diverisonary tactic to use for debunkers to explain away and alien sightings and if there were to be a worldwide UFO event that would be all we would hear.


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

Here's a good documentary for you Vanchatron:

The Day Before Disclosure (2010)
vimeo.com...

And here's another by the same folks regarding crop circles - also great imho..
www.o-fu-online.net...

Originally posted by Vanchatron


It's just frustrating sitting at home watching countless hours of Alien documentaries, reading about them constantly, seeing pictures & videos etc and still there's no admittance by the government that they actually exist.

edit on October 3rd 2010 by greeneyedleo because: (no reason given)

I know the feeling, I have always been intrested in Aliens and UFO's just because it would change human history and the world as we know it, when and if they are disclosed. There is no doubt in my mind they are out there, but what I want to know is where are they coming from, how are they getting here, what is there mission? What are we to them? Distant family? Experiment? Why are they visiting....I dont need to know that their "REAL" Because with things such as quatum physics and all the possibility and PROBABILITIES, it would be stupid to think we are the only ones.....I spent half of my life (im 24 so since I was 12) trying to put the pieces together, Im actually making a timeline of major events, Ive been working on for about a week, when Im done I plan on posting it. Its pretty much a condense version of everything Ive been researching for the last 12 years.... But sometimes you have to stop and enjoy the little things in life or it will drive you crazy!

Thats funny.
You say there is so much proof? Other then some pictures and videos of a blury disc? Even if they were "aliens" and the goverment was lying to everybody, so what? even if your disclosure comes to you, nothing will change in your lives, you wont be "aliens" or fly your own spaceship, or say "warp speed scotty"

If these ufos are real, then there is not aliens flying them, think about it. Who in the universe would be interseted in our little world when the universe is full of them, who else would conviently give us technogly making us more advanced every year, aliens gain nothing out of it, only "humans" in the future.

I don't mean a few hundred years, i mean thousands, Maybe millions of years from now, they would no longer be humans. They would be so advanced they would haved evolved many times, if not genetically altered thier own future. So advanced so intellgent beyond comparasion. They crave for more power, they go back in time and altered thier ancestors, to make thier future a more brighter one.

If it was made public, it would destory thier future, because we might stride away from it by knowing of it, it could cause mass panic (lets face it people are dumb with it comes to complexed situations and would most likely freak out)

Its an idea, like any idea it could be wrong?

I guess the problem is that most of these unidentified flying objects although unidentified dont necessarily need to be alien you know what i mean I guess as long as people keep letting other people control their minds alien entities may not show themselves. Why let themselves be turned into gods and saviors again that lead to war etc i dont think thats their intent. cosmic love is our destiny though so just keep pushing and opening other peoples eyes allowing the light to come through you to them peace n love