Honestly, What More Proof Do We Really Need?

Maybe one day humanity will be in the "post modern" age and this whole alien believer non believer will be a thing of the past. Its inevitable that we will travel the stars, just a matter of time.

and about the proof part, we surly have enough proof to make assumptions, I mean if we take time to think for a little bit, If aliens are not real, than WE are not real, the universe is too big to make mistakes, the universe is fine-tuned to produce life, just look at us, do you think we can just exist and aliens not exist at the same time? The universe is big for a reason, what do you think we will be doing in the upcoming centuries? Colonizing other stars for the resources they contain and the living space, what do you think aliens have been doing for billions of years?

What is harder to believe, we are alone, or that we are common and we have other people living in unknown locations that are sentient and likely smarter than us? How sad would the universe be if we were alone? I think its just a stage in the time-line of evolution, a species would always wonder if they were alone in the universe until they make contact and they LEARN that they are not alone, just think of it, what other stage of technology attracted UFOs? just the modern age where we learned how to leave our planet, which would mean we will learn how to expand within 100-200 years, that is their reason they are here IMHO. The whole nuke thing is another reason

Sadly for us we live in a world where our leaders are corrupt and hiding things from us, many things, where %1 of the population owns %40 of the money, just think of the knowledge they know that is hidden from us. Think of whats in those books at Freemason libraries, I can only imagine.

reply to post by Arbitrageur


In my opinion time travel is less likely precisely because FTL travel is not necessary for us to be visited. It's only necessary if you assume 'they' would want to get here in a hurry. Given the age of the universe a sufficiently old civilisation would have more than enough time to reach us by using sub-light travel. Also you cannot assume an alien race would have similar lifespans to us or not have hibernation technology. Robot drones containing dna samples for growth upon arrival at destination, generational ships, slow system-to-system colonization can all be surmised before you even have to think about FTL travel. None of these concepts require us to rethink our physics. Time travel on the other hand is purely theoretical at the moment and would likely involve unthinkable quantities of energy.

I called them 'people' for ease really. The reported shape of aliens is a whole other thread. My own opinion is that while aliens in general could take any form there are reasons why those that would choose to visit Earth may look like us.

They may be interested in us because we look like them for instance.

Their form would also have to be conducive to building spaceships - a stupid example would be that an intelligent horse-like creature would have trouble opening the door let alone building one.

Evolution tends to be efficient as well - it uses what works. Similar environments produce similar forms. Compare the ichthyosaur with a dolphin for example.

Originally posted by mithrawept
reply to post by Phage

 

Oh Phage, why so dismissive! What if only 1% of the UFO were real, that is significant, no?

What if...? That's still hypothetical. Because there's NO incontrovertible evidence that UFOs are real. QED!

(And I suppose you're meaning UFOs of the alien kind).

reply to post by spikey


you claim thousands of witnesses to a gigantic craft but dont have 1 single photo or video? You also have zero 911 calls after this supposed sighting.

There were a group of planes spotted at around 8:30pm, a couple of amatuer astronomers saw them and even managed to ID what type of planes they were. They were flying in a triangle formation. If theres any truth to the 8:30pm sighting i think this is what they saw,

reply to post by yeti101


How many people carry a camera with them? Camera phones weren't ubiquitous in 1997 like they are now.

They aren't documentaries. They are one sided fluff pieces broadcast in an attempt to increase viewership and thereby revenue.

Phage



In that sense, pretty much all documentaries are made from a certain point of view, to be one-sided, and support the agenda of the one making it, usually just the same as a persuasive essay or speech. Is it fluff just because it is about UFOs? Aren't all documentaries made from the standpoint of enticing people to see them (i.e. increase viewership of the issue)?

Out of the Blue is probably one of the best UFO docs out there (can't say the same for Ancient Aliens though...THIS series blatantly ignores existing facts, and in this, it is guilty of the "fluff" Phage assigns to it)...

Originally posted by yeti101
reply to post by spikey

 

you claim thousands of witnesses to a gigantic craft but dont have 1 single photo or video? You also have zero 911 calls after this supposed sighting.

There were a group of planes spotted at around 8:30pm, a couple of amatuer astronomers saw them and even managed to ID what type of planes they were. They were flying in a triangle formation. If theres any truth to the 8:30pm sighting i think this is what they saw,

Im sorry but a formation of planes is not what they say, unless all the witnesess were half blind! And why do you keep on bringing up the photos. We all know that people saw something because of the amount of phone calls that were made.

It makes me laugh that loads of people say they saw a huge craft flying low, and slow in the sky, and silent. Then one or two people it was planes, and you believe that! Where is the logic!

But, at the same time, if an amatuer astronomer saw a strange craft, then we get back to the "humans make bad witnesess" thing. Do you see the pattern here?

reply to post by Vanchatron


Star and Flag!!!!!!

I too am a huge fan of not only Ancient Aliens but the other specials on this topic, as well as on the Science Channel.

We are on the same page when it comes to wondering why people can't see that the biblical texts are describing things in an ancient way and that they are indeed describing extraterrestrial beings? Religious people don't refute the fact that gods and angels did not orignate here on this planet, but look at you crazy when you say they are extraterrestrial (:puz

I simply don't get why they are not able to connect the dots.

Their main argument is "Nowhere in the bible does it say 'Aliens' ". DUH!!! That book is 2k years old!!

However, careful scrutiny of the text and they will clearly see that

1. angels and gods were described as celestial beings that came from the stars/heavens [ALIENS]
2. they demonstrated wonderous power and miracles [ADVANCED TECHNOLOGY]
3. they traversed through the heavens back and forward to Earth in chariots of fire [Spaceships]
4. Mary was visited by an angel to be impregnated without sex [artificial insemination]
5. so on so on................

Way to go OP

reply to post by Phage


No Phage now where did i mention missiles.? Nuclear weapons were stored on site as has been admitted by several of the personnel who worked there. Bentwaters was not a bomber base, by the time of the incident mostly A10s from memory. However major upgrades to the base had been completed , after a series of industrial disputes. Some of those upgrades were hardened shelters for the A10s there were other upgrades of bunkers that were not for aircraft but for storing weapons |To my knowledge no-one has yet admitted exactly what nuclear weapons were there, but the general consensus is, they were warheads not missiles.

For someone who acts as a *man of the world* you can, when you choose to be extremely naive Phage and you don't fool me one iota. You know as well as i do that a weapon is a delivery system, ie a gun a, cannon or a missile. So technically no they didn't store nuclear weapons on site. However, they did store the warheads for weapons. Legally not the same but lets be honest we are splitting hairs here. They deliberately gave the impression, at the time, ,no nuclear material was on site, they lied about that.

Originally posted by Jay-morris

Im sorry but a formation of planes is not what they say, unless all the witnesess were half blind! And why do you keep on bringing up the photos. We all know that people saw something because of the amount of phone calls that were made.

It makes me laugh that loads of people say they saw a huge craft flying low, and slow in the sky, and silent. Then one or two people it was planes, and you believe that! Where is the logic!

'Witnesses' said the exact same thing about the Stephenville UFO a few years back and of all the people that claimed to have seen the massive mothership, guess what... NO PICS!

Doesn't that strike you as odd?

IRM

I really like the fact that these documentaries are seen on channels like discovery and NG, and when they have educational shows, I see no one calling their substance fluff.

I do agree that the majority of sighting are misidentification, but some do defy what we know about our physics. We have professional air force pilots saying that they have never seen thing move like this.

About the Phoenix lights, one thing I would like to know is if they are flares why are the not falling to earth? I have a hard time thinking the army has flares that are able to resist gravity. Maybe there are videos out there that I have not seen where there is clearly a falling motion to the flares, if so I would love to see it.

If not the idea of flares is wrong, flares fall to earth. Also they would have to be dropped from something that has the standard FAA lights on it would it not?

I just think people tend to say these things, I would like to know why, because if they just believe the army for the sake of believing them, then they are worse then the crazy UFO "believers."

Pred....

reply to post by predator0187


If they are claiming the flares were dropped from aircraft, the chances are they are lying through their teeth. Flares in the way they appear in the Phoenix video are only dropped like that by helicopters. They probably were flares, i suspect they were deliberately dropped to to take the heat of the sightings elsewhere in the state that night and quite deliberately steal their thunder.

reply to post by MarrsAttax



why did people have no trouble photographing & videoing the flares at 10pm? TV news helicopter even managed to film them. Why so much trouble getting the 8:30 magic craft on film?

Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by MarrsAttax

 

Sure.
No reason they can't be visitors from our own past or future.
No reason they can't be advanced dolphins.
No reason they can't be fairies.
No reason they can't be angels.
No reason they can't be a complete fabrication.
No reason the witness can't just be flat out lying.


Rather than speculate, why not just leave it with "unknown" when there is not enough information to base a determination upon?

edit on 10/4/2010 by Phage because: (no reason given)

This is exactly why proof and evidence is subjective.

If you think the possibility of Aliens is as likely as "advanced dolphins" than it is much easier to rationalize the evidence away.

In fact, even if you had a direct personal experience you might consider the possibility of some random unexplained hallucination as more likely than the existence of another advanced race.

If you really want to you can always rationalize the evidence away.

However, since I don't consider the existence of "Aliens" to be unlikely I don't see these other extreme possibilities as logically reasonable.

To me the evidence is already rather conclusive because I simply don't think any other explanation is as likely.

Originally posted by Vanchatron
OK I'm a big believer of extraterrestrial life & UFOs etc, and it's not even that I'm a Sci Fi nerd who loves Star Trek/Star Wars and wants all that type of crap to be real. It's just that I do genuinely believe in Aliens & always have done. Anyway, I've been watching a lot of documentaries recently and the 2 that have really stood out to me have been "Ancient Aliens" & "Out Of The Blue" which both talk about the possibility of Aliens actually existing & visiting Earth etc.

The thing that frustrates me though, is that in these documentaries there's often SO MUCH evidence of Aliens/UFOs that it seems stupid to NOT believe it. Granted there are some people out there who edit videos/pictures and just want to get on TV, but I refuse to believe that every single person who has ever captured a UFO on video or with a camera is lying through their teeth.

It's things like for example, in the "Out Of The Blue" documentary, there was an alien craft that had supposedly landed in a field and was witnessed by a farmer & his wife. The government then sent in analyzers to check the ground where it had landed, and there was evidence of ground compression, etc amongst other things. Now obviously I'm not saying that ground compression proves 100% that a UFO had landed, but with SO MANY pictures/videos and eye witness accounts of Aliens & UFOs, they have got to be real.

It's a real shame that for the time being, it seems that the only "proof" people will be happy with is if something happens such as an alien craft crash landing into the middle of a major City such as New York or London etc, or if thousands of people all see an Alien with their own eyes at the same time. But then again, even then I bet you people would still dismiss the fact that Aliens exist, and I can't understand why. Dark Matter for example has actually never been seen but scientists all over the world believe in it and claim that it exists. Why don't people believe in aliens though? Honestly, what type of proof do we really need to get people to believe in Aliens/UFOs, and to get the government to admit they DO exist?

Surely EVERY single sighting of UFOs can't be explained by claiming it was a weather balloon, Chinese Lantern, Northern lights or a top secret government craft that's being tested.

I made a thread about a week ago on another forum (which I will post here in a few minutes aswell) claiming that I'd seen some UFOs for the first time in my life, and even posted a picture & explained in detail what I'd seen. It turned out that hardly anybody in the thread believed me, and they all claimed it was probably Chinese Lanterns etc. I know what Chinese Lanterns look like and what I saw WAS NOT them.

There's something I read a while back and I'm hoping that it turns out to be real, but then again with so many "predictions" flying around these days, with hardly any of them turning out to be true, this is probably just me grabbing at straws. It was about a Worldwide UFO Display on October 13, 2010 Here's the thread anyway - *SNIP*

It's just frustrating sitting at home watching countless hours of Alien documentaries, reading about them constantly, seeing pictures & videos etc and still there's no admittance by the government that they actually exist.

 

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edit on October 3rd 2010 by greeneyedleo because: (no reason given)

those documentaries you watch probably arent as factual as you think...and we dont really need any more proof to believe aliens exist...the VAST majority of people on earth are certain aliens exist you only have to look at the numbers...stars / planets etc etc theres just too many for there not to be...its just confirmation thats left for us now and theres only one way that will happen...either alien life finds us....or we find them

I haven't gotten a chance to read through this whole thread, but here's my opinion on aliens. I would say a large percentage, (if not all) of UFO sightings aren't extraterrestrial. The government has secret technology, and I believe that since the 1940's they've been behind making people believe in little green creatures in flying saucers, to cover their own asses. Also, I believe that they are going to use this 'alien technology' to do their dirty work, so they have someone to blame.

The Apollo astronaut that came out about UFOs said that ETs looked like our stereotypical little people with giant heads & eyes. This rubbed me the wrong way. So aliens actually look like they do in all of the movies & the twilight zone? I call bull#.


reply to post by atomic_space

I was wondering if they actually came out with the invisibility cloak yet..

reply to post by atomic_space


The first thing that came to mind when I read your post, was that it was a "Shadow Person" but then again as far as I know, these have nothing to do with aliens and are more paranormal than extraterrestrial.

I doubt you're going to post the video, but asking can't hurt, so yeah, would you mind posting it for us to see or at least sending it to me via PM please?

reply to post by Vanchatron


It's just that I do genuinely believe in Aliens & always have done.
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This kind of says it all doesn't it.
You believe, you always have, so why talk about proof? You don't require proof. You say you have always believed in aliens.
But some of us do. That's the difference between believing and knowing.
For the record, there is no proof. If there were we wouldn't be discussing it now, would we?
I believe there are likley intelligent creatures out there, but because of the vastness of interstellar space and the obscurity of our planet amongst the universe, that it is extremely unlikely any are visiting here.
Until some proof comes along, I'll continue to believe that.