You don't mutilate your daughters - why do you mutilate your sons ? (Discussion concerning human se

I'm not a man, so really I can't comment on having to deal with one, as far as cleaning, etc...but I will say that I honestly find uncircumsized junk to look extremely weird. It's a pretty big turn off to me.

However, I don't see why, as stated in the op, this procedure can't be opted for later in life when a person has a choice and can use anesthetics.

reply to post by gimme_some_truthOk, 1st off, since you're a mod, I hope we can discuss this in the spirit of finding some truth & just trust our fellow ATSers not to be silly.

I can assure you, coming from circumcised man,that it does not cut back on sexual pleasure either.

How do you know? Did you ever have sex before you were circumcised? If you did, I expect it wasn't very much, eh?
It seems to me that there is a lot of conflicting medical opinion on this subject & so who knows what to believe? Still, the beauty of ATS is that amongst all our opinions, we can learn something, right? So... How about we describe what sex feels like: me uncut, you cut? Then we'll have some data to go on.
I'm not sure exactly how to go about this & remain within the T&Cs, but if you're willing I'm happy to use the best understanding I have of medical terminology to avoid it becoming at all pornographic.

reply to post by ofhumandescent

I ask because the minute you hold your very first baby in your arms you will be overcomed with a love you have never experienced. (I did anyway).

Hi again - I'm so glad to see this thread right up there where it belongs!

Anyway, patience for a moment, I'm trying not to go off topic but it all ties in at the end.

When I had my daughter I was very young. Indeed I'd been told I'd never be able to carry a child to term.
Long story short - I had an incredible baby girl - her twin brother was an 'encapsulated fetus' - there in the womb he'd died and 'calcified' - but by the grace of God I didn't loose them both.
Anyway.
I almost died having her - blood loss, blah blah blah... But, tired and deathly I still wouldn't let her out of my sight.
They kept wanting to take here to the 'nursery' etc.
NO!
She remained in a little basinet, right next to my bed and even if I couldn't really hold her (my arms connected to tubes flooding me with new blood and IV solution) - I could see her, talk to her, sing to her, etc.
At one point a nurse came to collect my daughter for 'more tests'.
I didn't like it, I wanted to go with her, but the nurse gave me all the right comforting words and I stayed in bed.
For about thirty seconds after she took my baby out of the room.
Then I was after her.
Pulled the one IV out of my arm - the other, still connected and I used the IV poll to help me gimp long.
I turned the corner to the 'nursery' just in time to see the doctor stab a needle into my daughters heel and hear her let out with a little whimper.
God she was so brave even then! Just a little whimper.
To say I became enraged is an understatement.
The hospital never filed charges, but, I did hit the doctor with the IV poll - and threaten him with death if he ever touched her again.

POINT BEING!

Any of you mothers out there who choose the BARBARIC practice of circumcising your little baby sons?
Who choose to off their little skins?

Be woman enough (and you Fathers) MAN enough to STAND THERE AND WATCH IT!

Could you?

Could you really stand there and watch a doctor, using NO anesthesia, CUT OFF your babies little foreskin?

If you can't? THEN WHY ARE YOU DOING IT!

I tried to kill a doctor who stuck a needle in my daughters heel to get a blood sample.
I would have succeeded, I'm sure, if it was a doctor who tried to MUTILATE my little son.

peace

Thanks for this thread. My mother said the same thing; that my screams were the most horrific thing she'd ever heard. The funny thing is, she also abandoned me at 1 1/2 years old, and I was raised by grandparents. I have a younger half-brother whom she never mutilated, nor abandoned. I think it's my karma, since then women have always attempted (metaphorically) to either cut off my penis, or abandon me, or both. Needless to say, I no longer offer them the opportunity to do either..

If my parents somehow would be able and willing to decide over my head to cut me up next Saturday with me having no say in it, the last they ever see of me is my intact behind next Friday.

If it must be done, let it be out of free adult choice. To put it down without swearing: Hands off the children!

Meh, to hell with it: -swears like a drunk pirate's parrot wanting a peanut.-

I will not circumsize should I have a son. This is a great thread and gives much to think about.

Originally posted by joechip
Thanks for this thread. My mother said the same thing; that my screams were the most horrific thing she'd ever heard. The funny thing is, she also abandoned me at 1 1/2 years old, and I was raised by grandparents. I have a younger half-brother whom she never mutilated, nor abandoned. I think it's my karma, since then women have always attempted (metaphorically) to either cut off my penis, or abandon me, or both. Needless to say, I no longer offer them the opportunity to do either..

It's hard to understand a mother doing that, isn't it.
I tried to throw myself under a train when I thought I could not be with my children.
I hope you end up in a fulfilling relationship with a good woman.

In the meantime, having had a pretty awful childhood myself, I've found it helps to give someone else, (or a pet,) the caring which deep down you wish you had yourself.

Who needs a "hood" when you have lube?

I don't think comparing circumcision to female genital mutilation is a fair comparison. Women who live in countries where this is common are often cast aside as second-class citizens. Can't say the same for men. Male circumcision involves a doctor and scalpel whereas female genital mutilation involves shamans with no anesthesia.

reply to post by Kailassa


Pretty much immediately...he said it was like having a new toy.

This happened when we were 28...so we've had 10 years of a new toy. And the injury was basically that it ripped during something vigorous. He wasnt damaged in any other way.

He said it increased sensation for him.

Originally posted by Bunken Drum
Still, if you think its more hygienic for that tiny residue, after shaking the drips, to end up soaking into your pants, rather than doing its job of preventing bacterial growth, as evolution has equipped us, who am I to gainsay you?

You're right, healthy urine is wonderful stuff. It is an antiseptic, as you say, and, applied externally, speeds tissue regrowth, so it is wonderful for wound repair.

URINE FOR WOUND HEALING ACTIVITY IN RATS

Some groups of Aussie soldiers in Vietnam, fighting guerrillas in the jungle, were often cut off from supplies, and found peeing on wounds was often the best way to clean them. They also suffered from foot rot, from living in damp conditions, feet wet or sweaty, and sometimes being in conditions where they could not safely sleep without these wet boots on. So they'd pee into their boots, and that kept their feet good.

Personally I've repaired legs and feet perfectly with urine after damage that left bone showing, avoiding plastic surgery the doctors had thought necessary.

i find the uncut ones look liek anteaters.

reply to post by stellify

um .. yeah ...
It's swollen and quite agonising for the first few days, the stitches don't come out for 1 - 2 weeks, and it's advised not to try sex for the next 6 weeks. The pain of an erection during that time is severe enough for methods to be used to prevent one.

Originally posted by Unity_99
The clitoris is equivalent to the whole member, its a little penis. It is what is urinated out of and orgasm as well. And they take huge chunks of flesh, which we're not going into detail. It would be like cutting off your member, and partial castration as well. Period. The end result is this. Many males have always survived circumscision. Far less girls do. All males still funciton and orgasm. No girls do. Using anothers body like that for your own pleasure is another definition of what I call RAPE, on top of mutlilation beyond what is done to boys and gross abuse, and injustice and sexual slavery of girls. The two will never compare. Learn physiology. If you read that in a report, that scientist deserves to be fired and disbanded from whatever orgs he belongs to, for its a blatant lie..

Unity, learn physiology
Sorry, couldn't resist. I love your posts, and agree with much you have written, but the clitoris in not "what is urinated out of". The urethral opening is about 2.5cm south of the clitoris.

*SNIP*

Also, women have more than one way of orgasming. A women with no clitoris is theoretically still capable of a vaginal orgasm. However it wouldn't surprise me if the trauma of full circumcision prevented such fulfillment.

I agree that pulling someone's toenails out is nowhere near as bad as chopping their feet off, but it's still not a nice thing to do.









MOD EDIT & NOTE:
Link to graphic site snipped due to ATS Terms & Conditions of Use (1b)

hiii.

Dont know whether it will help or not . but here it goes.

I am from India where the majority of Population is Hindu. Now we dont do any hanky panky with our junk and i dont remember any of my relatives or friend contacting any disease.(Mind you i am speaking for more than 300 million males).

Now your take

reply to post by nixie_nox


your obviously a girl...

try to get past your own views on comparing the two, what the OP brings up is not a just some comparison, (though he does mention a comparison) its more about the fact that this sort of thing is happening, think about it from his angle before giving a rebuttal..


for example, we are all born, then forced into certain systems without us having any say in the matter, hmm, sounds messed up to me.


anyway, op, its a great post, a man can always get circumcised later in his life, as they do in at around 14 in Samoan countries and such.

good thought, good words, thanks for sharing.

Well as both a male with a sharpened pencil, and a medical professional I feel qualified to respond.
I believe it is a cultural decision. If you don't want your child circumsized you shouldn't have to feel any undue pressure to have it done. Even if for personal, or vanity reasons, religion excluded. If you want it done then you should also have that choice.
As far as the childs consent well... That's a bit hard to procure from an infant. As a parent you face lots of hard decisions, and they start immediately. If you want your child circumsized, you should. The pros are that it is (a little) easier to keep clean, and therefore reduce risks of infections, and spread of STDs(a little). The cons: yep it hurts. Take also into consideration though that at this point in his little life simply adapting to extrauterine life sucks. So I can't agree with the trauma angle as it having any lasting effect whatsoever. As far as the damaging of sensory tissue angle you have to realize that the central nervous sytem of an infant is still under construction. They have lots and lots of loose ends on their dendrites with almost no fixed pathways. The brain is "plastic". Part of sexual maturity(physically) is wiring those pathways together. The body is amazingly adaptive so I don't think a cut part is any better, or worse than uncut. I personally don't have any complaints. I believe the term "mutilation" is over the top, and designed to evoke emotions Vs. rational thought. I know men who have it cut in adulthood due to their mate's preferences, and they didn't seem too shook up over it. Beside it hurting a bit for a few days. One friend actually said he liked it better after everything healed up.
If you don't want your child circumsized, don't let them do it. It is your child, and your decision to make. It would not be a mistake, or a bad thing in any way in my opinion. Teaching your little guy to clean his tool will just be a little bit more important. I think the issue is 6 on one side, and a half dozen on the other. As a parent you shouldn't have any guilt over the decision you made either way. Nor should you try to make anyone else feel guilty over their decision. In the grand scheme of things it ranks just a little bit above "paper or plastic?" at the grocery store.

reply to post by The Sword

Male circumcision involves a doctor and scalpel whereas female genital mutilation involves shamans with no anesthesia.

And what are the Western World doctors reduced to when they tie down little infant baby boys with restraints and cut off their foreskins with NO anesthesia?

WORSE than with doctors and shamans.

Why?

Because they have a CHOICE and don't use it.

A choice to use anesthesia - even better - a choice NOT to cut.

peace

My tip has been snipped. I wish my parents had left it up to me to what I please with my johnson, because if it where up to me I'd be rolling with a euro. I will not pass genital mutilation, which is what it is, down to any of my sons. I want my anteater back.

Don't snip the tip!

reply to post by Binder
Though your points are well taken and appreciated I'm appalled at the following...

I believe the term "mutilation" is over the top, and designed to evoke emotions Vs. rational thought.

Here's RATIONAL thinking:

Tie a patient down.

Using NO anesthesia use a scalpel and cut off a functioning part of their anatomy.

After the blood's been cleaned up and the patient is recovering from severe trauma and shock - go ahead and ask them if they've just been horrifically 'mutilated' or undergone a 'procedure'.

I bet I know the answer.

And, the only difference between the above person and an infant?

The infant can't tell you where to shove it while he's auto-dialing his lawyer to sue you...

(And no, that is not directed at you, but in general)...

peace

I'm an uncircumcised man and I can tell you I wouldn't like to see my fore skin gone.

As for the so called benefits:

~ Prevents Penile Cancer. Virtually eliminates the risk
~ Helps prevent Urinary tract infections
~ Lowers risk of contracting STDs.
~ More Hygienic

Total BS Just keep it clean. Can't be that difficult. I've never in my life got an infection or STD.
It's all about using your brain instead of the penis.