You don't mutilate your daughters - why do you mutilate your sons ? (Discussion concerning human se

reply to post by C0bzz

I'm sure you'll be hard pressed to find a man that isn't happy with how they are...

All of my so called issues about how I look... Well... I see them as what makes me unique. I appreciate them.

Reading this thread has just made me damn worried.
I have phimosis(You can't pull the foreskin back, at all.)
So I have to be circumcised for medical purposes.
Thanks alot people xD

There isn't anything wrong with having foreskin, I'm an uncircumcised male and have never had any sexual health problems in my entire life. I'd also argue that having a foreskin aids feelings of satisfaction during masturbation, oral sex and sexual intercourse.

I've heard that being circumcised can leads to desensitization; which is something that I definately don't want thank you very much!

As someone else has already pointed out, circumcisation is pretty rare here in the UK and I'm shocked to read on this thread that it's so common in the states!

I've only ever personally known one male who was circumcised.

By the way; to all those who believe being circumcised makes you cleaner, no it doesn't! Just because I have foreskin doesn't mean I don't pull it back and wash my penis in the shower, you can also pull your foreskin back when you urinate and then dry the end of your penis with toilet paper, it's not hard! (no pun intended)

Apologies to the mods if this post comes accross as vulgar, I'm in no way/shape or form trying to be, simply explaining a rudimentry concept in a realistic manner.

Edit to add: I've just read a few pages of this thread and I'm honestly shocked that the majority seem to think it's wrong to have foreskin It's what your born with, another part of the male sexual organs, it's quite comical to see people say things like "I don't need foreskin" etc etc

I'm also certain that everyone is this thread who has been circumcised never had sex when they actually had foreskin so therefore don't knock something you have no knowledge about or something you never did.

Foreskin is foreskin, just accept it. It seem's there are a lot of insecure males out, more so than I would ever had imagined after reading this thread.

I think every bloke would like to be bigger downstairs but I can honestly say I like my penis and have no issues at all with my genitals.

reply to post by InterestedUK


Good post. The AMA (American Medical Association) is another one of the biggest lobbyists in DC and circumcism is done for the $$$$$$$$$$$.

This procedure can cost anyhere from 100.00 to 250.00 www.drspock.com...

But multiply that number by the number of babies per day that get it done and you are looking at $$$$$.

It's all about the money.

That area of skin is extremely sensitive, I'd hate to have gone without it as it's given me so much pleasure. As long as personal hygene is maintained there is virtually no risk of infection there. I don't think parents have a right to do this to a child, it's cruel and unnecessary, the child should be able to make his own mind up when he comes of age, it shouldn't be pushed upon him by parents. We don't ''own'' our kids.

Just thought I'd throw this one into the mixer

Male circumcision reduces HIV transmission by 60% in Zimbabwe

reply to post by B.Morrison


I did research too.............but when I had my three sons it was the late 70's and early 80's.

Before flat screen TV's
Cell phones
ipods
Computers were just starting to come out in the 80's
The Net............Use to have to drive to a library and go through rows of books, now everything is within reach of a keyboard

Back in the 70's and early 80's to talk to someone in Europe you either wrote a letter and waited for a week or two or put in a phone call and waited 5-10 minutes.

If you are young, you cannot imagine how life was just 30 years ago.............now communication and knowledge is endless and instant.

The information back twenty / thirty years ago was way less than the information now.

I was in nursing 30 years ago and it was common medical practice and "knowledge" that circumcism was "healthy", "hygenic" etc. The medical community stated here in America that circumcised males were healthier.

One more piece of information.............back 20-30 years ago it would have been highly unlikely to talk to anyone let alone a stranger about this subject. Yes one might discuss this with your spouse, doctor or best friend but never would this have been openly discussed in public with strangers.

We are so lucky to now live in a age where we can discuss and get additional information at the touch of a keyboard.

Now back a couple hundred years ago we had medical procedures that we now consider barbaric.

I religiously read "Parents Magazine" each and every month before and during my experiences in parenthood.

I read somewhere that now days the average person comes across more information in one day than a person five hundred years ago came across during their entire life.

You do the best you can do with the information you have at the time.

Originally posted by Death_Kron
I'm also certain that everyone is this thread who has been circumcised never had sex when they actually had foreskin so therefore don't knock something you have no knowledge about or something you never did.

Sorry mate, but I had the chop when I was 21. I did it for a medical reason (phimosis). It made very little difference to me once I got used to the initial over-sensitivity from being 'uncovered', as it where.

Like you say, it is quite uncommon in the UK, particularly if you're not muslim or jewish. I don't see what the problem is to be honest.

Originally posted by PaddyInf

Originally posted by Death_Kron
I'm also certain that everyone is this thread who has been circumcised never had sex when they actually had foreskin so therefore don't knock something you have no knowledge about or something you never did.

Sorry mate, but I had the chop when I was 21. I did it for a medical reason (phimosis). To be honest it made very little difference to me once I got used to the initial over-sensitivity from being 'uncovered', as it where.

Like you say, it is quite uncommon in the UK, particularly if you're not muslim or jewish. I don't see what the problem is to be honest.

No, I'm not saying I have a problem. What anyone does is their individual choice and obviously I'll respect that, I can't comment on what it's like to be circumcised as I'm not.

I just find it slightly annoying and almost comical that so many people in this thread seem to think that having foreskin is a sin

Originally posted by PaddyInf

Originally posted by Death_Kron
I'm also certain that everyone is this thread who has been circumcised never had sex when they actually had foreskin so therefore don't knock something you have no knowledge about or something you never did.

Sorry mate, but I had the chop when I was 21. I did it for a medical reason (phimosis). It made very little difference to me once I got used to the initial over-sensitivity from being 'uncovered', as it where.

Like you say, it is quite uncommon in the UK, particularly if you're not muslim or jewish. I don't see what the problem is to be honest.

edit on 19-9-2010 by PaddyInf because: (no reason given)

Thats made me feel alot better, thanks.

reply to post by PaddyInf


Very good post.........thank you for the article.

But, these were men and they made the decision.............deep within their mind they know they chose this and they had anesthesia and pain killers.

A newborn infant has no idea what the sam heck is happening to him, all he knows is he is being tied down and another human is inflicting pain upon him. This has got to affect all male babies.

As another post put it, "it's there, you just don't remember it".

Our brains are like a computer, we register every single incident that occurs, every smell, taste, touch, thought, sound. The old stuff, the stuff that happened to you long ago is like a hidden file, it's there but it's way deep within the hard drive somewhere.

Afterwards, when I held my son, it affected him. He shook and cried. He was very upset.

There is a big difference when you willingly chose to do something like this compared to this just being done to you without your say so.

I'm just glad this thread has proved that there are indeed US citizens who see sense and are against this barbaric practice. I was under the impression that almost all US babies have this mutilation done - glad to see that isn't the case.

As far as I can see, the supporters of circumcision are simply in denial and don't want to think about it too much. Because by thinking about it, they run the risk of having to accept that their parents mutilated them, and they in turn mutilated their own children for no good reason. Deep down they know it's wrong to cause infants such pain, but they continue to justify it to themselves because of a ridiculous fear of not conforming to the norm, and 'facts' that are simply untrue. Having a foreskin does not cause UTIs. Being circumcised does NOT enhance sensitivity - in fact quite the opposite.

You people routinely cause your baby sons to go through unspeakable agony, and it's usually because of the father. I wonder how many single Moms give the go-ahead to slice a part of their child's penis off with out the father there to cajole them into doing so.

Also to the imbeciles who reckon it's fine to do this to babies because they don't remember the trauma, you won't mind if I come over to your place and slap baby about a bit, maybe burn him with a cigarette. After all, he won't remember the trauma.

Ok, having read the first 5 pages, here I go posting my view on the subject.

I'm not circumsized. In the country I'm from, it's not common practice either. However, removing one's foreskin indeed has some benefits, i.e. it's more hygienic (I actually know no other benefits, really lol). However, I still like to respond to Slappie a few pages back, who sais that the absence of foreskin increases sexual pleasure. Why? In my opinion, sexual pleasure is decreased because the penis becomes less sensitive when circumsized...that's the drawback I know from circumcision. Therefore, you can't compare it to circumcision by girls

But on the other hand, I've never inclined getting my foreskin removed. The hygiene-aspect is not important enough to me. I mean, I shower every day, never had complaints if you know what I mean...so here we come to the very reason of why men have their foreskin removed. I think it has more to do with religion than with anything else. Indeed, many circumsized men have had their foreskin removed at a very young age, something I consider very, very wrong.. And that's the whole issue of the thread, it is not ethical to circumsize at a young age. It's mutilation. But I'd like to go into it a bit more deeper. I know some men who let their foreskin removed (I get tired of typing the word 'foreskin'), at a later age, because it is indeed more hygienic. So I really don't want to say circumcision is outdated, it really depends on the person what he wants.

To conclude, I'm against circumcision at a young age. But I don't see any significant benefits or drawbacks when done at a later age. It's just preference. Although I prefer my skin, because it gives me more pleasure.

reply to post by Death_Kron


Very interesting and honest post.

Yes, I was in nursing 30 years ago and only one man I ever saw was not circumcised.........I worked emergency room so I saw a lot of people.

Out of probably hundreds of men that I came across, only one man was not circumcised and he was from Europe.

All the American men I saw were circumcised.

I think things are changing and for the better.

Because now we can acquire information from various sources and we are a much more open society.

Again, the net itself is so wonderful, you can converse with someone that is a continent away with a whole different culture.

An entire library at your fingertips.

We were one of the first families in our neighborhood to buy a pc, back then you had to know MS DOS because this was before Windows

My grand daughter started using the computer when she was four or five, she's 9 and keyboards faster than me.

The knowledge and technology age is indeed a wonderment.

Just some notes from my experience both as a wife and a mother.

When I had my son, circumcision was brought up. I asked the Doctor, straight up, "Is it necessary?"

His reply was, "No. It is mostly an outdated religous practice, and some people feel it is necessary for cleanliness, but if you teach your child proper hygeine, there is no reason medically to do it. On the other hand, if it is a part of your religion, we will be happy to perform this proceedure."

I opted out.

He did offer up that some studies have shown problems later in life, but that again, it all goes back to cleanliness.

Having said that, my grown son has had no trouble finding willing partners, never had a urinary tract infection, or any other type of infection in that area.

As a wife of a natural husband in his 40's - never had a urinary tract infection or any other type in that area, and he keeps himself immaculately clean. I think a lot of "studies" have been done that both support and refute male circumcision, there is no problem finding one that supports either side of the argument.

It all comes down to personal choice of the parent, and realizing that while it is "somewhat reversible" by some odd means, whats done is done. You cannot *replace it* - but can work out a so-so re-do. Most don't go that far.

Some men suffer greatly emotionally when they grow up and realize what has been done to them. So much so that there are support groups for men in this regard.

I am of the feeling we should let them decide when they come of age. I offered to my son when he was old enough to understand, and he was quite happy the way he is. But, I did make it clear that option was there for him if he so chose.

Realizing where the practice started, and that there are some very wierd religous practices surrounding it, I think brings it home for some people.In some sects, the foreskin is saved once it is removed, and at a later date some 13 or so years years later, it is eaten during a ceremony. Really?

I also firmly believe that women who find it a "turn off" are quite brainwashed, as IMO, there is nothing more beautiful than a man in his natural state - undefiled by religous or any other sect behaviours.

If you are not aware of the origins of circumsision, and really wish to know *why* it began, you should do some research and find out how and where you stand afterwards.

Here is a short but sweet *excellent* outline of the history and practice of circumcision that covers much of the debate about necessity and religous practices:

www.cirp.org...

some short snips:

One theory postulates that circumcision began as a way of "purifying" individuals and society by reducing sexuality and sexual pleasure.

circumcision is revealed as a sacrifice of "sinful" human enjoyment (in this earthly life), for the sake of holiness in the afterlife

The Jews adopted circumcision as a religious ritual8,10,15,18 and preserved this prehistoric practice into modern times

In a reference to the old practices of genital mutilation, St. Paul warned Titus to beware of the "circumcision group."

Moscucci reports that circumcision was imposed in an attempt to prevent masturbation.

One more thing that some people may not know.

The foreskin of an infant is attached to head of the penis at birth, fused, if you will. It is not until well into 6 months to a year of cleaning and gently forcing it back that it begins to losen. During the circumcision, the foreskin is brutally forced back, and then a bell is placed over the head of the penis and the skin is forced back up - this is the skin that is removed.

The point being, and I know from experience of having a baby boy, that forcing the fused skin back is terribly painful for the baby.

There is no difference in teaching a male to keep himself clean than there is in teaching a female. I taught my son very well - and he even wipes after he urinates, as does my spouse. He keeps himself cleaner, and his clothes, as well.

Why wouldn't he? Women do. Could you imagine being with a woman that just "shakes it twice"?

YUCK

reply to post by Death_KronI'll tell you what surprised me most in this thread (because I know a few Americans so I already knew circumcision is common over there) was when someone suggested that an adult man might choose to get cut because his spouse prefered it that way!
I mean just... just... seriously... just WTF?
If I found that a woman's genitals were shaped in some way I found objectionable &, let's have it right, there is a great deal more variety, not that I have yet discovered anything that I dont like, just some are prettier than others, but if I did, why in the name of all that rocks would I marry her?

reply to post by ofhumandescent


I honestly didn't know that circumcision was that common! Like I mentioned previously, I've only known one male to be circumcised however in your case you only know or have encountered one that wasn't; strange indeed!

Going back to the original points made in the OP, I don't think parents should have the right to give "permission" to circumcise their kids. As others have mentioned, it should be a choice that the individual makes when they are of an age to understand it...

I remember MS-DOS well I also used to own a laptop running Window's 3.1 for Workgroups back in the day, happy times!

reply to post by Bunken Drum


Exactly!

I'd expect that many on here would disagree with your post but I'm with you all the way, if my partner didn't like my genitals then that's her problem; not mine.

I certainly wouldn't even entertain the idea of changing my body because someone didn't like it, that's their problem and if they were opposed to a certain feature of my anatomy (whatever that may be) that much then why on Earth would they enter a relationship with me?

Originally posted by vaevictis
How about a botched circumcision? I know a person (in his 20s), because of what happened he was raised as a girl...and he is not happy about that for many different reasons now that he knows it.

You have hit on an extremely excellent point in this, and I was going to bring it up, so I am grateful that you did.

There were an extreme amount of "botched" circumcisions when the laser knife was developed and then used for this practice. I know of one hospital in particular in Georgia where the practice was banned for a time because so many boys had to undergo sex re-assignment surgery because of this.

All those baby boys were turned into girls over what? An outdated religous practice that shows *no benefit* according to my doctor.

I would have been mortified had it been my child. Not to mention what that child will have to face at maturity and beyond. Dear heavens, can you imagine having to deal with that?!


well.blogs.nytimes.com...

The slide portrays a precipitous drop in circumcision, to just 32.5 percent in 2009 from 56 percent in 2006. The numbers are based on calculations made by SDI Health, a company in Plymouth Meeting, Pa., that analyzes health care data; they do not include procedures outside hospitals (like most Jewish ritual circumcisions) or not reimbursed by insurance.

Good thing it looks like people are slowly waking up to the damage this terrible cult-like ritual can cause!

“Word has gotten out that it’s not necessary, it’s harmful and it’s painful,” said Georganne Chapin, executive director of Intact America, a nonprofit organization based in Tarrytown, N.Y.

Several state Medicaid programs stopped covering circumcision after the academy issued its current policy in 1999, and Dr. Brady said that may be one reason fewer parents opt for the procedure.

reply to post by ofhumandescent



I have been circumcized, and it was when i was 7.. So i know that i felt little pain, to reduce the chance of having cancer because of the extra skin. According to studies, that has been showed, is that it is more benificial than harm to get circumcized...

And furthermore for the women...
similarly girls can also be circumcized too, but not the way that some people do to their girls in africa, like removing the part where you get satisfaction. I myself am happy that i was circumcized, and im a muslim..

Now to the children who gets circumsized when they are very little, i think its much more better to perform circumcisission on them than in later years. Because when they are evolving, they have a better understanding of what hurts and what does not hurt, and it gets more intense when they know that it will really hurt..