You don't mutilate your daughters - why do you mutilate your sons ? (Discussion concerning human se

reply to post by Son of Will

But you're COMPLETELY missing the point here. Both acts are sexual mutilation, and neither are "minor surgery" as you so bizarrely stated it. It's TORTURE - there is no sedative or anesthetic provided. The act itself is sheer evil.[/ex]

Very wise post.............yes it is a savage torture. Without concent. Everyone should be from birth on in control of their bodies.

edit on 18-9-2010 by ofhumandescent because: (no reason given)

Just read it...

"wherever you find genital mutilation, you're going to find that men are superior to women, society is very warlike, children are frequently beaten or otherwise abused, there's a 'father' god, strict code of morality, women are killed for premarital sex..........."

"where you find women have a low status, you will find circumcision..male &/or female.... ( i'll spare the details... ) when you find a society like that they're always very warlike, men have a much higher status than women, women live basically slave lives, harems are common, polygamy is common - which means women are having sex with men they don't really 'dig' but they're being forced into it & insult sensitivity is very high, you can get killed for insulting one another."

"on the other hand, wherever you find the absence of genital mutilation you generally find men & women are equal, there's hardly any wars, sometimes there are no wars at all, rape is unknown usually, like in the trobriand islands, the Zuni indians can only remember ONE murder in their entire history, and they only remember that because they're an oral culture & oral cultures remember things longer than literate cultures.

The ONE murder in Zuni history happened over 300 years ago and the Zuni's are STILL ashamed of it and STILL to this day don't know why it happened....

whereas the patrist culture of the united states as a whole I think we have one murder every 7 minutes if I remember the statistics correctly, and I think we have one rape every 3 minutes. And of course, we have plenty of genital mutilation, although its only practised on women by people of Arabian decent it's practised on the whole male population by doctors who assure us the procedure is scientifically necessary...

no scientific justification for circumcision has ever been published that made any sense whatsoever.

but the thing that Mayo (?) addresses, is that the doctors HEAR the babies SCREAMING in agony... but it doesn't register on them...why?

because they have patrist armoured values, they've shut down their own emotions so they can't recognise anyone else's emotions, an infant screaming is just one of the side effects of 'normal' procedure, just like slapping them on the backside right after their born...

Isn't that a great way to enter to human race!?"

Transcript of a talk given by Robert Anton Wilson at the Disinformation seminars.

Source:www.abovetopsecret.com...

My 2 cent follows - those that favour circumcisition AND vaccines over nothing, based on information spoon fed to them by their doctors & broader society, rather than doing exstensive research themselves, etc

are both dellusional and cruel & haven't a leg to stand on. More so, ignorance on the subject would be born from lazyness, nothing more. Its pathetic really, I don't have kids, and don't plan for a long time if at all, but I SEEM to have done more research into this topic just out of general interest than most of the parent out there have.

-B.M

reply to post by Son of Will


I dont believe in doing this to baby boys either, as explained in my posts, the first two were, one for good reasons, and with consultation because I don't follow traditions and feel nature knows best, the second due to my husband overriding me while I was too weak to argue, but they both got it when I heard the procedure being carried out, both my husband and the doctor who lied after it. I have 5 boys, 3 of them are uncircumsized,my choice. I was agonized over the procedures carried out on the first two, my first one was a rare case of the cap not working and he had to be circumsized twice, the second time the old fashioned way.

I think teenagers and adults, who recieve proper pain relief, are far more qualified in deciding this for themselves, not infants.

Female and male procedures are completely different however. They don't even compare.

I completely agree with the OP. It's absolutely disgusting that when a boy is born they want to remove certain body parts because of their brainwashed beliefs and is very comparable to mutilation of girls in other cultures (to a certain extent). I would be furious if someone had modified me from what nature intended.

It's just as hygienic if proper hygiene is practiced.

It's far more sensitive and fun in all realms of sexual activity.

I feel sorry for men who don't know any different. Sure they have no problem feeling pleasure, but it's not as good as it could have been.

The African tribe that stretches their bottom lip with clay disks thinks they are aesthetically pleasing and women that do not do it will usually not marry. It is the same with Americans, they do it just because everyone else around them does to so they want to fit in. After all we do not want to be the odd man out do we now.

I, as a male, can assuredly say.....I am glad that I was circumsized, it makes my fireman look bigger and not like a turtle wearing a turtle-neck sweater. I know that would turn girls on and all, all that extra flapping skin with unsanitary residue of a heavy days work encapsulated in a fleshy pouch of manhood, but, I am still glad that I was circumsized because I just feel cleaner and look bigger.I think GOD approves as well. Thats what I hear.

Originally posted by ofhumandescent
reply to post by Son of Will

 

But you're COMPLETELY missing the point here. Both acts are sexual mutilation, and neither are "minor surgery" as you so bizarrely stated it. It's TORTURE - there is no sedative or anesthetic provided. The act itself is sheer evil.[/ex]

Very wise post.............yes it is a savage torture. Without concent. Everyone should be from birth on in control of their bodies.

edit on 18-9-2010 by ofhumandescent because: (no reason given)

I am a guy, so I can just say it...........you're a girl and you don't know what you're talking about. I was circumsized and I don't remember it and it hasn't affected me in anyway. Actually, I am glad it was done. I makes my fireman look bigger, and it's more sanitary. A girl who is dropping knowledge about a penis LOL, I have heard it all now.It does come with consent....of the parents.

reply to post by nixie_nox

You have no memories before learning to speak.

Thats not true. i have 3 distinct memories that could have only happened between the age of 7months & about 14months. 1 involves an injury to my hand, which narrows it down to approx 8-9 months. The others are more sketchy, but I remember the wallpaper, curtains & the wooden bars of my cot. My mum has confirmed that we lived in a place like I describe whilst my dad took a contract overseas so they could afford to buy a house. All my other childhood memories are from that house.

Just to let you know... the Clitoris and the head of the penis are anatomically similar. The foreskin would be compared to the clitoral hood. When a sex change is performed either direction, the clitoris is used to make the head of the penis and vise versa. They are both erectile tissue. Foreskin is not erectile tissue.
simple.wikipedia.org...

I've also debated the reasons for circumcision, compared to female genital mutilation. They are not the same. FGM has zero medical benefits, male circumcision, has medical benefits.

What are the benefits of circumcision?
A decreased risk of urinary tract infections.
A reduced risk of sexually transmitted diseases in men.
Protection against penile cancer and a reduced risk of cervical cancer in female sex partners.
Prevention of balanitis (inflammation of the glans) and balanoposthitis (inflammation of the glans and foreskin).
Prevention of phimosis (the inability to retract the foreskin) and paraphimosis (the inability to return the foreskin to its original location).

Circumcision also makes it easier to keep the end of the penis clean.

Seems reasonable to me.

Harm None
Peace

I chose not to circumcise my son because the procedure removes 1/2 of the erogenous tissue. If some removed 1/2 of the erotogenic nerve endings on my stuff, I'd be really ticked.

If we didnt need our skins we would have evolved it out. Im whole and proud, and clean.

Originally posted by amazed
I've also debated the reasons for circumcision, compared to female genital mutilation. They are not the same. FGM has zero medical benefits, male circumcision, has medical benefits.

What are the benefits of circumcision?
A decreased risk of urinary tract infections.
A reduced risk of sexually transmitted diseases in men.
Protection against penile cancer and a reduced risk of cervical cancer in female sex partners.
Prevention of balanitis (inflammation of the glans) and balanoposthitis (inflammation of the glans and foreskin).
Prevention of phimosis (the inability to retract the foreskin) and paraphimosis (the inability to return the foreskin to its original location).

Circumcision also makes it easier to keep the end of the penis clean.

Seems reasonable to me.

Harm None
Peace

1) In countries where female circumcision is allowed, they have a similar laundry list of medical benefits defending it.

2) Should we start lobbing off our infant girls breast buds at birth, now that breast cancer is a scourge? What is the incidence of breast cancer compared to penile cancer, something like 5-1?

It should be up to the father, he knows whats best for his son.

Well who knows?

It doesn't make a whole hell of a difference to me now...

I guess people are free to decide

reply to post by nagabonar

personally i think it is disgusting to imagine that some urine would stay within the foreskin of my penis, every time i take a pee..so i definitely feel more hygienic

What, you feel more hygienic than something you've never experienced? Hmmm... Sounds like a purely psychological reaction to me.
When you finish urinating, what do you do with the drop thats left hanging on the end of your glans? I'd imagine you just shake it off, right? Do you then always wash with soap & water, to get rid of that last tiny bit that clings to the skin? Or do you only do so when you are about to bring your member into contact with another person?
Myself, like many a bloke I suspect, I keep it clean enough that it never smells bad: ie wash frequently. If I'm about to have sex, I'll give it a good wash again, just to be sure.
I'm uncut, so after I pee, I retract my foreskin a little & shake that last drop off... Just the same.
Of course, there is another issue to consider here, which is that a healthy person's urine ought not to have anything in it that could promote infection, in fact, just the opposite. Still, if you think its more hygienic for that tiny residue, after shaking the drips, to end up soaking into your pants, rather than doing its job of preventing bacterial growth, as evolution has equipped us, who am I to gainsay you?

Originally posted by Blarneystoner
It's hardly mutilation.

Many of the benefits include:

~ Prevents Penile Cancer. Virtually eliminates the risk
~ Helps prevent Urinary tract infections
~ Lowers risk of contracting STDs.
~ More Hygienic

I'd like to know why YOU think circumcision prevents and/or lowers the risk of said possible problems? I honest don't see how foreskin could increase the risk of STD's -- it makes no sense, think about it. How does circumcision virtually eliminate the risk of penile cancer?

One Love,
Fangula

reply to post by brutalsun


The clitoris is equivalent to the whole member, its a little penis. It is what is urinated out of and orgasm as well. And they take huge chunks of flesh, which we're not going into detail. It would be like cutting off your member, and partial castration as well. Period. The end result is this. Many males have always survived circumscision. Far less girls do. All males still funciton and orgasm. No girls do. Using anothers body like that for your own pleasure is another definition of what I call RAPE, on top of mutlilation beyond what is done to boys and gross abuse, and injustice and sexual slavery of girls. The two will never compare. Learn physiology. If you read that in a report, that scientist deserves to be fired and disbanded from whatever orgs he belongs to, for its a blatant lie..

I really have no personal opinion about circumcision (especially since I'm not a man, so I can't comment from that perspective anyway) but I do know of a man who suffered from a medical condition that was made a whole lot worse due to the fact that he was uncircumcised. This man had a genetic condition that caused tumors to grow in his testicles. The tumors themselves weren't cancerous but they were made up of tissue that would eventually turn cancerous, so he had to have his testicles removed. The doctor who did the surgery botched it and the man's penis kept getting infected and the foreskin was a main reason why the infections continued to recur.

After some time his penis began to shrivel up and grow lots of scar tissue due to the infections and eventually it had to be amputated. During the surgery (with a different doctor of course!) to remove the penis the man also opted to have cosmetic surgery to take on a female appearance since he basically figured he had no choice at that point. He also legally became a woman after that. It wasn't quite as hard as it sounds (with him opting to becoming female) because the disease that he had had begun slowly feminizing him ever since he had hit puberty, and he had grown breasts by the time he was 21 or so. The tumors were discovered when he was in his late 20's.

Granted this is a rare and shocking medical case and really has no bearing on whether or not a healthy man is circumcised or not, but still in his case the presence of the foreskin was very detrimental.

I like my cut penis. It looks good and feels healthier. No worry about bacterial problems and I don't have to worry about cleaning the folds. It looks nicer than uncut. Yuk. However, I may miss the sensitivity, but I would not know being cut. But I like my wiener.

As for women, I find that clipping the you know what; way too extreme. I feel sorry for the women whom endure such a procedure.