So, ATS, Pro-Life or Pro-Choice?

reply to post by TokiTheDestroyer

Originally posted by TokiTheDestroyer
I hope this is the right section to post this in, I was just curious as to where some of the other people on here stand and for what reason.

I myself am pro-choice, simply because I'm a man, and as a man I should have no say whatsoever about what a woman does to her body.

I'll anxiously be awaiting your replies.

::Edit to say::
Thank you, mods, for putting this in the correct section. ^_^

[edit on 9/7/10 by TokiTheDestroyer]

Would you stand by and let your mother or father be brutally murdered..sister brother..... its the same...instead of a baby that you don't know put someone you do in its place.... now would you have a say so?

My simple reply is that I am a man and therefore feel I have no right to impress my judgments upon somebody who has to deal with issues that I can have no understanding of.

I don't want a woman telling me if I can or cannot have, say, a vasectomy if I so choose, so I do not feel comfortable doing the reverse.

Originally posted by tspark
reply to post by TokiTheDestroyer

 

Would you stand by and let your mother or father be brutally murdered..sister brother..... its the same...instead of a baby that you don't know put someone you do in its place.... now would you have a say so?

Love these. Absolutely love these types of reasoning.

Would you stand by and let a tyrant like Hitler murder hundreds of thousands if not millions.

Instead of a baby that you don't know put someone you do in it's place.


[edit on 9/7/2010 by eNumbra]

reply to post by Hefficide


not comparable.... you have have to say tubes tied...hysterectomy....

an abortion is not an equivalent to a vasectomy...

Just think it through....

"ignorance of the law is no excuse..."

And this is a bigger LAw than any Man-made law.....

Before I state what position I am when it comes to this issue there needs to be some things stated:
This is an issue that has many valid points on both sides of the argument. And like all arguments where the fundamental rights of a person come into conflict, there will always heated debate on both sides. One one side, the side of those who are pro-choice, the ultimate question boils down to at what right does an individuals right to privacy cease to exist in the eyes of the law? What is the actual boundry and to what extent can such be equally applied in the eyes of the law across the board to affect everyone. One could argue, that to deny a woman the right to have an abortion, then you have stripped away the very right of privacy and privledge that exists between a doctor and a patient.
On the other side of the argument, the question of when life begins and at what point is a new life considered human. This too is a valid question, as it should be reflected that a fetus will grow and develop a into a human being and is it right or correct to end its life?
There are no easy answers or ones that are correct, as both points of view are correct and the laws often conflict on this aspect.
Not being a woman or a medical professional, I can not imagine the decision process that would lead to the ultimate decision on if and when an abortion should be considered. However, not being a woman, I do listen and have heard tales from women who were around before and during the Roe V. Wade decision as to ultimately how this fundamental landmark case changed the nature of society at large. Before that, when abortion was considered illegale, the number of botched abortions and back alley proceedures or those travelling to countries outside of the US for this proceedure, did happen. And the consequences of such were often irreversible.
Now after careful thought, I am pro-choice. I am that if nothing more than it is a private discussion and proceedure between a woman and her doctor. I would hate to see the country to back slide to a time when a woman who wanted such, would end up hurting themselves badly to not have a child. It is easy to state not to have a child and to take responsiblity, but the reality is, that not many are willing to take those steps. I have seen young women in my time who got reckless, and were no way ready for a child in their life, and at the same time those women who often regretted giving such up. I do believe that both sides of the argument needs to be presented in a tasteful and civil manor, where a woman is presented the facts of the proceedure and the consequences of her decision before she goes through with such.

reply to post by tspark


That made very little sense, but is every bit as valid as everyones else's statements...... I guess.

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


I understand your point, but doesn't that set up a slippery slope of defense for any murderer to pursue? It's only murder if the baby is "wanted"... and who's to actually say that the baby is "wanted"... one could mount a defense and drag bereaved family members through literal hell to prove the desire of the mother for the pregnancy.

I find it appalling that a pregnancy is argued as a non life, a nothing, a throwaway... a non- issue in legal terms. UNLESS it is wanted. Then it is deemed murder by the state prosecutors.
So human desire, a very volatile and subjective thing is at play, and the ONLY thing at play, in legality.

Don't you think that is a little crazy and backwards?
How can we tell women that they are not really carrying a life, that it is nothing to get rid of an "accident" or "mistake", then charge people with the murder of unborn children in tandem with the murder of their mothers?

That sends a huge mixed & hurtful message to the women lining up to get abortions.

How can that be reconciled?

Is it a life or isn't it? Seriously? Is the desire of the woman the only deciding factor here?

No wonder the pro life people and the pro choice people are at such odds when the law makers themselves can't even make up their minds.

reply to post by eNumbra



I would've went to war against hitler if i had been alive...


What type of comparison is that?

change to millions of babies..... better wouldn't you agree?

reply to post by tspark


I am not ignorant of the law - which says that abortion is legal.

As far as higher laws go, I am agnostic and tend to take many of those with a grain of salt. I've seen far too much damage done in the name of one God or the other to jump on that sort of bandwagon.

Just for the record though, I personally do not care for the idea of abortion. I just think that it's awfully hypocritical for men to think that they can impress these ideas upon women.

reply to post by TokiTheDestroyer


What are you talking about....would you allow a relative be killed?

easy question..... a simple question...

should i ask it slllllloooooooowwwwweeeerrr?

reply to post by TokiTheDestroyer


Pro-Choice.

However, it's not and never should be an easier choice. Should only used in cases of known illness, disease, rape and incest.

If you're a serial abortionists who is too dumb to use contraceptive measures, then you should not have the right to just get rid of the problem because you don't want to deal with the results of your behaviour.

Although there are other certain situations that would warrant the practice as well I assume. As a man, I don't feel as though I should have much of an opinion as it's not something that I would ever have to think about doing or going through.

There are certain things in this world that are gender specific, I believe abortion to be one of those.

~Keeper

reply to post by tspark


You made an emotional appeal on behalf of saving the lives of all babies by making abortion reprehensible by putting the faces of loved ones on those of the hypothetically aborted fetuses.




I did the same with the opposite intention. That is the comparison. If you want to be in favor of life, be for it without using lame emotional appeals.

[edit on 9/7/2010 by eNumbra]

reply to post by Hefficide



the ignorance of the Law comment was not asking if it legal or not... it's to tell you that you should get informed of things before the question is asked and the answer is required of you....

it actually doesn't take belief in a "Higher Power" to hold a baby just once to see that they are a human being...one so fragile....

Originally posted by tspark
reply to post by Hefficide

 

the ignorance of the Law comment was not asking if it legal or not... it's to tell you that you should get informed of things before the question is asked and the answer is required of you....

it actually doesn't take belief in a "Higher Power" to hold a baby just once to see that they are a human being...one so fragile....

Would you please enlighten me about what it is I am uninformed about? As far as I know I am possessed of all the relevant facts in the subject at hand.

And as for holding a baby, I have two children and do not need instruction upon the joys of parenthood or empathy towards an infant.

Originally posted by thegoodearth
I understand your point, but doesn't that set up a slippery slope of defense for any murderer to pursue? It's only murder if the baby is "wanted"... and who's to actually say that the baby is "wanted"... one could mount a defense and drag bereaved family members through literal hell to prove the desire of the mother for the pregnancy.

Yes, there are potential abuses and loopholes in every law. The claim of "temporary insanity", for example. It's not a perfect system, but it works well for the vast majority of situations.

Is the desire of the woman the only deciding factor here?

I'm afraid so. Since, as long as it's in her body, dependent on her for its very survival, she is the one to decide what's to be done with it.

Trust me, the majority of women who get abortions know that there is a "life" inside them.

Fact is, no one should be "arguing" this issue. Women who are against choice (pro-life) make their choice all the time. They CHOOSE to have their babies. They act like they are superior because they CHOOSE to have the baby. They still CHOOSE. They deny that choice to other women, though. It's THEIR choice. It's only other people's choices that they are against.

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


That comment echoes my sentiment quite well BH.

Well done.

~Keeper

Originally posted by tspark
....would you allow a relative be killed?

Is this relative living inside someone else and totally dependent on them for survival?

Pro-life

I value each and every human life, regardless of circumstances…

reply to post by eNumbra



i put the faces of loved ones on the Baby... because he said he had no say so in the way the woman did with her body.... but if you can identify with the Baby being a human being then you would find that you could find a voice to speak with...

I truly value life and feel that I am Pro-Life with some exceptions - those being if the mother or father have a drug addiction (I have seen babies born heroin dependant). Rape, incest and danger to the Mother's life to give birth. I believe these are valid reasons for abortion - so does that make me Pro-Choice?