Do You Believe In Transsexualism?

Originally posted by SpectreDC
I believe there is masculinity and femininity but these are not unique to just one gender. It's a spectrum that's so diverse to even get into it right now would be just too much of a pain.

I agree with you 100% on this. I am a woman who is in touch with her masculine side. Interestingly, my husband is in touch with his feminine side, too, so we make a really good match.

reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas


Another outstanding post, SKL. So eloquent you are...

reply to post by eMachine


In regards to your comment about calling the individual what they wanted to be called, gender-wise, I agree, because ultimately it's their choice.

Not ours.

Some might call that person a freak.

I would not.

Sorry, with being on the receiving end of bullies, for half of my life I understand.

Does this mean I have a higher tolerance level?

It sure does.

It also means I gained patience with people.

Not sure if you introduced your thread earlier or not, eMachine, but I feel this is semi-relevant to the topic at hand, my apologies if you already did.

Transhumanist Postgenderism - Science Fiction or Science Future?

And as for your indoctrination through entering college?

Well, you're only indoctrinated, if you go in blind not knowing it will be tried.

It is a shame because I can see many PhD's behind you now with your current knowledge.

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


Something or other comes to mind about getting better with age.

But I sure had better not hear you say it.

Thank you very much.

[edit on 3-9-2010 by SpartanKingLeonidas]

Feel lke a woman/man, and who really cares but for you and you're sad family?
Keep that kind of bad luck to yourself and the rest of us don't wanna know.

reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas


No, I didn't link the thread, but I did link to the white paper on Postgenderism, because I did think it was relevant.

On the college thing, I'm flattered, but I don't really have any desire for a degree. I don't even have a clue what I would study! If people won't listen to my ideas as a high-school dropout, I don't really want to earn "credibility" so they will.

And just FYI, I totally think your "psychic" friend is BSing you. There's no way souls have a distinguishable sex before birth. (Disclaimer: this is my personal opinion, and I believe I've known enough self-proclaimed psychics to know they're all BSing! lol)

Originally posted by Death_Kron
Thoughts?

Why do you care how other people think? Why do you think other people care what YOU think?

Stop worrying about things that you will never fully understand, i.e., other people's thoughts and feelings.

Originally posted by eMachine
reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas

 

No, I didn't link the thread, but I did link to the white paper on Postgenderism, because I did think it was relevant.

On the college thing, I'm flattered, but I don't really have any desire for a degree. I don't even have a clue what I would study! If people won't listen to my ideas as a high-school dropout, I don't really want to earn "credibility" so they will.

And just FYI, I totally think your "psychic" friend is BSing you. There's no way souls have a distinguishable sex before birth. (Disclaimer: this is my personal opinion, and I believe I've known enough self-proclaimed psychics to know they're all BSing! lol)

Well, glad I posted your thread, I felt it was relevant enough for the discussion.

I understand about college.

I was trying for a degree in Business Administration/Criminal Justice Administration.

In the end, working four jobs, and college, even online, did not mix.

But you have a talent and a knack for thinking.

I see a college degree as an expensive receipt to hang on a wall.

Nothing else.

Go get your G.E.D. though.

I can see you passing that easily.

As for my "psychic" friend?

I never said I agreed with her on the gender of a soul.

As for BS'ing me?

I've caught all of her lies without ever calling her on them.

Posturing is one of many things she taught me.

I believe in Houdini's theories about psychic's.

Frauds.

Charlatans, con-men, and schemers.

But it takes a liar to catch a liar.

I do say self-proclaimed psychic in regards to her for a reason.

Because she told me she is a psychic.

No one else did.

I only listen to her so far as I can trust her.

With a grain of salt mixed in to keep myself honest to her practices.

There is something to what they do though to an extent.

If they are honorable about it without malice, without conning people out of money, without giving people false promises, without giving people false hope.

If they do those things they are predators.

Period.

Being "psychic" is nothing more than profiling based upon experience.

I was taught profiling as well as self-taught a lot of it and she even taught me some.

[edit on 3-9-2010 by SpartanKingLeonidas]

Originally posted by ThichHeaded
I believe in reincarnation.. So therefor I believe sometimes the lines get crosses in the subconscious mind to make this happen..

I believe this is the case for Transsexuals myself. Being a woman or a man another life sometimes carries over and bam. Your in the wrong body.

I also believe God is a hermaphrodite. Not that God is sexual, but has both the female and the make energy.

So my answer is yes. I believe you can be in the wrong body. It depends on if your soul is hung up on another life.

ok folks, heres is my reply to the OP, i have been hetrosexual my entire life, i still think im heterosexual

MY GIRLFRIEND OF 4 YEARS IS TRANSGENDERED!!

i fell in love with whats between her ears not between her legs

she is 100% female inside, outside shes 75% female

she was born in a mans body and has suffered her whole life till she decided to change

my family and friends adore her, i lost some friends when i hooked up with her............but then, maybe they werent real friends anyway

if i was gay, i would be attracted to men, she looks, talks, dresses, and acts like a woman

my girlfriend has allways known something was wrong,since she could remember, it wasnt till she was in her mid 20s that she decided to change and her family has dissowned her, they dont talk to her anymore and her mother told her when she was young that if she ever had a child that was gay, that the child would be better dead!!

well, she has a new family now and if this gay marriage thing would pass, i would marry her in a heartbeat!!

to the OP what dont you get?? you dont have to get anything,or understand it, you just have to respect it as something somebody has to change to feel NORMAL in there own eyes.....i dont get extream peircings or massive body covering tattoos, but i respect the people that do it and have them........if its what they want to do to themself then more power to them

be safe people

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
So, yes, I believe in transsexuals. Absolutely. I've known some and they were women in every sense of the word except for their genitals. Genitals alone do not make the gender.

Correct. Genitals alone don't make the gender. Genitals can be lost or mutilated but the person and mind remain, so genitals are only an extrinsic indicator of gender.

It's the XX or XY chromosomes that make a gender.

Some people feel that their mental state, their "id" you could say, defines their gender. By this logic, when a paranoid schizophrenic believes secret agents are searching for him then these fantasies must be real. Or when he sees pink elephants, they are real too... after all, he feels that they are real. And feeling is how we determine reality, right? *sarcasm*

Transsexualism should be treated like any other mental disorder: with therapy. We should no more pretend that the secret agents and pink elephants are real than we should pretend that a man is a woman or vice versa.

Originally posted by eMachine
reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas

 

No, I didn't link the thread, but I did link to the white paper on Postgenderism, because I did think it was relevant.

On the college thing, I'm flattered, but I don't really have any desire for a degree. I don't even have a clue what I would study! If people won't listen to my ideas as a high-school dropout, I don't really want to earn "credibility" so they will.

And just FYI, I totally think your "psychic" friend is BSing you. There's no way souls have a distinguishable sex before birth. (Disclaimer: this is my personal opinion, and I believe I've known enough self-proclaimed psychics to know they're all BSing! lol)

A college education in some practical subject (medicine, business, etc) is literally a deal-breaker between getting a good job or a McDonalds job.

I have two college degrees in subjects that are minimally interesting to me. My real passions can be explored in my own time, informally, because I don't need to prove vis-a-vis a diploma that I have mastered the subject.

(Grammar Nazis, I know what vis-a-vis means. Face to face. In this usage I mean that an individual must be put face-to-face with a sheet of paper in order to believe that I am educated on a subject.)

I believe it doesn't really matter what physical body you have, there is no need to change it if your mentality doesn't match it. Why would you care so much about appearances, is it really worth mutilating your natural body in an ultimately pointless and damaging fashion? Does your appearance really define who you are? People can try to make themselves look anyway they want, but in the end, it doesn't change who they really are.

It doesn't matter how much makeup a women wears, at the core her face remains the same. What is a transsexual really doing by changing their physical appearance...they are really saying that they are insecure with who they are, they think physical appearances and cliche personality traits will make people see them for who they really are...when in reality what they look like, and that stupid fake laugh mean nothing, at the core they are who they are.

They need to mutilate their body to show people who they really are...meaning they can't just naturally be the person they want to be at the core, and be secure with it, mutilation of the body is required...and I'm not religious if some were wondering, it's just some of the procedures they undertake are really horrific, and work towards damaging the body rather than doing any good for it, it's a superficial tactic to change who they are or how people see them.

[edit on 3/9/10 by CHA0S]

Interesting thread. I believe if someone is born and unhappy with who they are and in result, get a sex change operation, then yeah, they probably suffered transsexualism...which is fine and natural.

Many individuals change their appearance due to their unhappiness with how they look or who they are on the exterior.

Originally posted by CHA0S
I believe it doesn't really matter what physical body you have, there is no need to change it if your mentality doesn't match it. Why would you care so much about appearances, is it really worth mutilating your natural body in an ultimately pointless and damaging fashion? Does your appearance really define who you are? People can try to make themselves look anyway they want, but in the end, it doesn't change who they really are.

I think a transgendered person would disagree and this is why. Children before hormone change look very similar gender-wise in the face because the full force of adult hormones have not kicked in. When the male testosterone kicks in it mutates the face of the child. This is why a males features are not as fine the hormones does this to the bone structure. If you know you are a woman then you were mutated from your normal state into a grotesque version of who you feel you should have been.

The females feature from the estrogen stay natural. It is the male that makes the drastic change in the face.

Now as of the body it only takes high doses of estrogen and testosterone blockers to become very female like except for the face. The mammary glands in both male and females are able to produce milk and grow full from estrogen and a lack of testosterone.


It all depends on who's shoes you are standing in. we need a more empathetic world if we are all to understand each other.

Edit to add: Its just a biological mix-up in the mind of a transgendered person.

[edit on 3-9-2010 by LoneGunMan]

I don't have this issue so I have to take someones word who does. Either way it doesn't matter. If someone wants to appear and act as the opposite gender then thats their buisness not mine.
My opinion on what causes someone to do this is: some are wired that way, some do it to rebel, some do it for attention, and some just enjoy it. Either way it's their choice and no one else's.
I am not gay or transgendered so none of it makes sense to me. I also can't understand why people like to play golf I think it's boring and repetative, but I don't judge people who do. Transgederd does not interest me, I could care less if someone else does it nor would I feel that my understanding in the matter somehow justifies or condems it.
I have met people who havn't spoken to their families in years because they are gay or transgendered. I can't imagine how a mother or father could turn their back on their child because of this.
I also worked with a woman who's 13 yr old son came home from school one day wearing fake nails. All of his friends were female and were going to get these put on at the local salon. He wanted to fit in with his friends so he did it to. At the time I couldn't understand why she wasn't mad. When I asked her she said "does it make him less of a person". I went to this young mans wedding last year, he married a young lady and has a baby. He has a decent job and supports his family. He also openly crossdresses. If you ask him why he crossdresses he will simply tell you he enjoys it, he doesn't feel he was born the wrong gender nor is he atracted to people of the same gender.
I guess what I am trying to say is, you are not going to understand it you can't. All you can do is accept the person for who they are and let them live life the way they want.

I believe that if you were born a woman and you know you are a man...you are a man, no questions asked. And vice versa. It is not for you or me to understand, it is for the individuals who live in this situation. You know what you are and that is what matters right? Well, transgendered individuals know what they are, so who are you or I to say different.

reply to post by spaznational


I'm guessing you feel the same way about homosexuality?...I'm also gonna go out on a limb and say you are most likely a very religious person...am I right? What are you, catholic...christian...doesn't matter, I think you need therapy.

Originally posted by spaznational

It's the XX or XY chromosomes that make a gender.

Actually, approximately 3% of all human beings have abnormal chromosomal mosaics that do not conform to your rigid XX/XY only scenario. (XXX, XXY, XYY, X0, etc.) How do you propose they be "classified?"

I'd propose that rather than marginalize those who are different from you, you should, instead leave them alone to live their lives as they see fit.

content removed at member's request

Your lack of education on this topic becomes increasingly clear as one attempts to read your fallacy filled posts.

Just because you can't "get your head around it" doesn't make it any less real. You believe people can be born gay, but not transsexual? Yet studies done on brains CLEARLY illustrate a structural basis for transsexuality and not for homosexuality.

There is a difference between sex, gender role, and gender identity.

Gender identity is who one feels themself to be. It is not culturally influenced, it is inborn and cannot be changed with any amount of medication, hormones, electroshock therapy or anything else. This sense of identity isn't due to chromosomes or genitals, it is due to an area of the brian refered to as the BSTc. It is twice the size in men as it is in women, regardless of sexual orientation. In mtF's this area of the brain was shown to be female sized, not male sized, again, regardless of sexual orientation.

Sex is murky. It isn't black and white. You can't say it's based on JUST chromosomes because there are people born with XXX, XO, XXY, XYY, and other such "abnormal" genetic makeup. You can't say it's JUST based on parts because some people are born with a penis AND a vagina. You can't say it's JUST based on gonads because some (incredibly rare) people even have both tesiticular and ovarian tissues. Nevermind the fact that parts and gonads get removed due to injury, cancer, and other myriad reasons. So sex is determined by a myriad things.

Chromosomes, parts, gonads, gender identity (brain structure) AND hormones all together, not JUST one of them, determine sex. So you can't say an mtF isn't female because she doesn't have XX chromosomes unless you would also say a woman with Turner's Syndrome isn't a woman because she doesn't have XX chromosomes. You can't say an ftM isn't a man because he has no prostate unless you would also say a man who had his prostate removed due to cancer isn't a man. You can't say an mtF isn't a woman because she can't give birth unless you also say that an infertile woman isn't a woman.

Some people are lucky enough to have every aspect of their sex "in line" with each other and their gender identities (brain structure), others aren't so lucky. This is why hormones and parts are changed, and gonads are removed. Chromosomes cannot be changed, however, I have already illustrated why chromosomes ALONE cannot be used to define a person's sex, so it is irrelevant.

Gender role is the only thing that is culturally influenced. Those women spoken of (I realize not, by OP, but by another bigot later in the thread) who worked before women working was in fashion were violating their gender ROLES. This had nothing to do with their gender IDENTITY which is an utterly and completely separate issue. I know a transsexual who violates more gender roles after transition than she did before. She is a lesbian firefighter. So the argument that transsexuals are just "feminine men" or "masculine women" trying to fit in better is moot.

I must say I've lost respect for many here due to the many bigoted responses found in this post. (Hell, for 8 months before today I had respect enough to just lurk and not actually post. ) But at least there were some enlightened posts mixed in with them, and I most certainly agree with the one who compared you to a flat earther.

[edit on 4-9-2010 by the Gospel of Luke]

Wait til you wake up and you are really old.
No surgeon or clothing needed, you are just another person.
You look in the mirror and see just a bit of what you were, no one else sees it.
No one recognizes your gender or your unique traits, you are just another old person. No color, no genderr, no platform, because no one sees you.
Change you CAN believe in, if you make it !
Bless the inner spirit it is all some have. And it is good.
love is all you need.