Do You Believe In Transsexualism?

Originally posted by InfaRedMan
I don't quite understand... You're female misogynist? Do you have hatred and hostility towards females? Do you feel like a guy - or do you loath yourself in some way? You certainly don't look like a tomboy (if that's you in your avatar). Quite the contrary!

Yes, I am. Yes, I do (atleast stereotypical femininity and those who believe in it). No, I don't think I do, but I cannot claim to know what a guy "feels like" - yes, I do, in many ways. And... thanks? I've never really been into sports or anything, but I've always wanted to learn martial arts, is that tomboy-ish?

It's tough trying to fit into labeled boxes. If you can find one that defines me, please let me know.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
That all depends on your point of view. What is a woman? If the answer is a human with a vagina, then all people with vaginas are women. If the answer is all humans that are BORN with a vagina, then your statement is true. To me, being a woman isn't about sex organs. It's about how I FEEL.

If it's not too much to ask of BH, I would love to know what being a woman feels like. Or if any other woman reading this thread would like to share their feelings on this, I would greatly appreciate it. Thanks in advance!

Originally posted by eMachine
If what Benevolent Heretic says above is true, I may actually BE what you call transsexual, because I do not FEEL like other women seem to.

You shouldn't feel like other women. Do you feel like a woman? Simple question. It's going to be different for each person. To me, feeling like a woman is something I really can't explain, as I said in my first post. I KNOW that I am a woman, though. And I don't have to look at my sex organs to verify that.




[edit on 9/3/2010 by Benevolent Heretic]

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


So I have to dye my hair, wear make-up, shave my legs, put on a short skirt and try to attract men in order to feel like a woman? No wonder I don't feel feminine. That's one big marketing stereotype. Looks like everyone else in our culture is buying it tho.

Edited to add:

I guess what makes me different is wanting to be treated like a Human Being.

[edit on 9/3/2010 by eMachine]

reply to post by eMachine


Oh, Lord! I was just adding that video to provide a little lightheartedness. I don't wear makeup or any of that stuff.

Can you answer my question? Do YOU feel like a woman? Or do you feel like a man.

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


I feel like a human being. I don't know how it feels to be a "woman" or a "man", I only know how it feels to be ME. I know I'm female, but if as you say my genitalia doesn't count for anything, I simply do not know.

reply to post by eMachine


So, maybe you don't feel strongly like a man or a woman. Some people do, though. I feel STRONGLY like I am a woman. If I felt this way and had a penis and chest hair, I can see how I might want them removed so my body would better match what I feel.

If you can't understand that, then there's nothing more I can say.

[edit on 9/3/2010 by Benevolent Heretic]

Personally I believe our minds and our bodies did not evolve at the same time. What I mean is that, before we were "conscious" beings aware of reality like we are now, we were like any other animal. But with our minds as they are we have, to a degree, evolved past our current hardware.

I guess you could call me a pansexual. I believe there is masculinity and femininity but these are not unique to just one gender. It's a spectrum that's so diverse to even get into it right now would be just too much of a pain.

With that said, as far as the spectrum goes, I'm straight. But I'll say this; if a person is post-op I wouldn't really give a #.

[edit on 3-9-2010 by SpectreDC]

Originally posted by eMachine
reply to post by Benevolent Heretic

 

I feel like a human being. I don't know how it feels to be a "woman" or a "man", I only know how it feels to be ME. I know I'm female, but if as you say my genitalia doesn't count for anything, I simply do not know.

Hate to say this - but you sound like a Text Book.

Are you in college studying some kind of philosophy or social awareness or psychology?

Can't think of any other reason someone would be so PC on this subject.

There's been quite a bit of scientific research done in this area. For example, transgendered people seem to have the "brain type" (pardon my insufficient scientific vocabulary) of the gender with which they identified:

Regardless of sexual orientation, men had almost twice as many somatostatin neurons as women (P < 0.006). The number of neurons in the BSTc of male-to-female transsexuals was similar to that of the females (P = 0.83). In contrast, the neuron number of a female-to-male transsexual was found to be in the male range. Hormone treatment or sex hormone level variations in adulthood did not seem to have influenced BSTc neuron numbers. The present findings of somatostatin neuronal sex differences in the BSTc and its sex reversal in the transsexual brain clearly support the paradigm that in transsexuals sexual differentiation of the brain and genitals may go into opposite directions and point to a neurobiological basis of gender identity disorder.
source

And I didn't read through all the thread so I don't know if this has been mentioned, but occasionally there are XX Males and XY Females.

Gender has as much to do with what's going on in your brain and your chromosomes as it does with what's between your legs. These people aren't confused or insane, they just are who and what they are and that's fine with me.



TheAssoc.

reply to post by Annee


No, I'm not in college, I'm not even a highschool graduate actually. And this is probably the first time ever in my life I've been accused of political correctness.

I'm just being honest. I honestly think this issue is one of our social philosophy, and it would not be an issue at all if we didn't have "gender norm" stereotypes and if we did not make people feel like they have to fit under a label and meet all of the label's criteria.

The way I'm looking at it, that would be alot more reasonable in the long run than these sorts of scientific experiments.

But hey, if people want to volunteer to be guinea pigs I'm certainly not going to stop them, or even tell them they shouldn't. I'm saying that, as a society, I hope we evolve to look at this "gender identity" issue differently.

I believe in it. And thus, I support people's right to become transsexual. Even though I'm a man, sometimes I feel like i'm more of a female soul, but i'd never go tranny as I don't mind being male.

On the other hand, I probably wouldn't be with a trans-woman. It's just too weird to me. But I would accept them as a woman.

reply to post by Death_Kron


When you see the torment that Transsexuals go through in their lifes. Its effect on their immediate families, spouses, children, work colleagues etc, not even to mention the operations and treatments to align their body image with that of their imagined gender ..... i can`t believe they are putting it on .

We may have difficulty empathising with their plight as it seems so counter-intuitive , its near impossible to image what they are going through .

Our difficulty/distress imagining what the realities of a sex change would be like , is mirrored by their distress contemplating a life trapped in the wrong body.

That said, i do think that the next 50 years may reveal a neurological basis for this phenomenon .

I have a question. What sex would you consider a person who has breasts and a vagina, but is genetically male and therefore can't become pregnant and lacks a uterus and has internal testes? They would look and act and for all purposes be like a woman, might even be beautiful, but technically, they would be male.

btw this is called AIS.

[edit on 3-9-2010 by 19872012]

I think that the most important thing is :

We do not and can not think someone else's thoughts. Period !

The human brain creates each individuals reality, and this makes being gay, straight, transsexual, Bi-sexual and so on a very real reality.

We can not and should not forbid others to be happy, only because us "normal"people think it is dirty, immoral, a choice or a lie. This is just hypocrite.

We should mind our own business ! As long as nobody gets hurt in the process, get your head around it ! Leave them in peace

Originally posted by eMachine

I'm just being honest. I honestly think this issue is one of our social philosophy, and it would not be an issue at all if we didn't have "gender norm" stereotypes and if we did not make people feel like they have to fit under a label and meet all of the label's criteria.

That whole paragraph sounds very PC to me. Like something you'd read in a human philosophy textbook.

Maybe you should consider college.

reply to post by 19872012


The case of Caster Semenya, the South African runner would be an example.

Caster Semenya and the issue of gender ambiguity

At the 1996 Olympics Games in Atlanta, eight female athletes were determined to have XY chromosomes and were not allowed to compete, The Los Angeles Times reports, adding that further studies showed that they were physiologically female even though their genes said they were male, and they were reinstated. The Times article includes several examples of how genetics and gender don't always match.

Scientific American

L.A Times link

About one in 4,500 babies show ambiguous genitalia at birth, such as a clitoris that looks like a penis, or vice versa,

link

[edit on 3-9-2010 by UmbraSumus]

reply to post by Death_Kron


Do I believe in trans-sexualism?

Well, an interesting question, indeed.

I have pondered this before but quite in the way you have described it.

Nor with your self-expressed beliefs.

But from a curiosity as right-wing Christian who saw homosexuality as a sin.

Notice, I said saw, past tense, not currently believing that.

I was blind but now I see as the saying goes.

Child Gender Identity


I am no expert and my beliefs are my own but the above video might answer some questions.

Having studied Greek, both the language, during high school where I was homeshooled, and as well the Ancient Greek's and warfare it did change my mind.

From having grown in my lifetime with knowledge I understand the only "sin" of homosexuality, and lesbianism, is because God said "be fruitful".

As in carry on your race.

Sodom and Gomorrah : You Probably Have No Clue What "God" Really Meant...

Do I believe someone could be born into the wrong gender?

Frankly, I am almost shocked I could say yes, saying it here for the first time.

Between learning Greek for homeschool and Christianity, and through that learning more of context, content, and intent of language, as well as various other prospects, and as well having a friend who is a self-proclaimed "psychic", I have come to learn many things in my time on Earth.

My friend, the self-proclaimed psychic, does believe this, very much.

She as well believes in past lives.

I am skeptical of past lives although she is the one who told me I was Leonidas.

In a past life.

Our bodies are nothing but a vessel for our soul to ride around in like a car.

With a driver.

This being said, between past lives, the soul being a driver, in your physical, corporeal being, the fleshy body with masculine and or feminine gendered being my friend believes our souls are already male or female.

Prior to inhabiting our bodies.

I am uncertain as to where and or how I want to believe on that.

Do not mistake my uncertainty with anything but being undecided though.

However, speaking of trans-sexualism, and sex-changes, I will say while it is definitely a potential for happening, in my estimation, not all bodies are so easily transformed, if you will, into the other gender, male or female.

Since you referenced a car and as did I this is where I will counter your claim.

With respect.

Not all cars, just as not all bodies, have the same framework.

The basics between bones and metal welded together is very similar if you will.

We all have ligaments, musculature, and tendons holding our bodies together.

Including skin.

All of this works in tandem with our hormones, circulatory system, and involuntary systems like our heart, brain, and nervous systems which only function as a means to pump fluids, direct actions, and sift data.

This is much like a car has a frame, welds, and wiring as basics, and add the engine, transmission, steering components, and then fluids, electronics, gauges, you name it with our vehicles in this modern day and age.

So, that having been said, not all bodies can support, nor being transferred to another gender, in my belief, because of my knowledge of logistics.

Imagine if you will a 500 pound male linebacker trying to cross over to female.

And you get my drift.

One ugly as Hell female.

Sorry if there are any 500 pound ex-linebackers out there who have had gender reassignment surgery, my meaning was not to offend, but to give a visual.

Yes, hormones, surgery, and implants can do a lot, but not the impossible.

Cost comes into play, emotions come into play, familial acceptance, work.

You name it.

I say this because I had a friend who had gender reassignment surgery.

We lost touch eventually.

This was a man who went to being a woman.

Needless to say I was shocked when "she" told me via IM.

I was not crass or idiotic nor judging.

I did eventually come to understand why "she" did not tell me at first.

It was after all an online friendship and not one which would ever go farther.

As well, with all of this, I have heard about, and read about babies being born with both genders, what is called a hermaprodite, and where a doctor made a crass and uncounciled decision, and either cut the penis off or sewed up the vagina, deciding the sex of the baby without discussing it with the parents often because the doctor made their choice.

I understand the complexities of this discussion because of knowing psychology, the roles of males and females throughout history, the changing of those roles over time, and as well my discussion with my friend.

Feel free to agree, disagree, and or agree to disagree with me.

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by eMachine

I'm just being honest. I honestly think this issue is one of our social philosophy, and it would not be an issue at all if we didn't have "gender norm" stereotypes and if we did not make people feel like they have to fit under a label and meet all of the label's criteria.

That whole paragraph sounds very PC to me. Like something you'd read in a human philosophy textbook.

Maybe you should consider college.

I agree with Annee, eMachine, you should consider college.

I know for a fact that you're smart.

That's one of the many reasons I respect you.

Personally, gender-conditioning is one of the biggest problems with society, period.

Meaning boys learning war, Cowboys and Indians, Cops and Robbers.

Just as much as girls learning housewife, dress and match, and Barbie and Ken.

[edit on 3-9-2010 by SpartanKingLeonidas]

Originally posted by 19872012
I have a question. What sex would you consider a person who has breasts and a vagina, but is genetically male and therefore can't become pregnant and lacks a uterus and has internal testes? They would look and act and for all purposes be like a woman, might even be beautiful, but technically, they would be male.

btw this is called AIS.

I would respect them as a human being and call them what they wanted to be called. There's one woman whose videos I found online quite a while ago, but I can't find them on YouTube anymore, she may have removed them. Anyway, she is intersex and autistic. I found her videos while looking up autistic adults.

Her name is Nena and it seems she's a college professor. She also seems to host this forum called "The Vault". Here is something she wrote: What does Intersex mean?

ARE INTERSEX VARIATIONS COMMON?

Yes! Under current criteria used today, intersex births are relatively common at about 1/2000. Simply put, this means that for every 2000 live births, 1,999 of them will fit within the medical establishment's criteria for defining male and female, while 1 of those births will not. Thus, based upon current population estimates, there are approximately 3,400,000 intersex individuals worldwide.

I wish I could find her videos, she's really fascinating.

Originally posted by SpartanKingLeonidas
I agree with Annee, eMachine, you should consider college.

I know for a fact that you're smart.

Thanks SKL, but I would rather not be indoctrinated.

[edit on 9/3/2010 by eMachine]

I don't really care anymore if it's genetic, or social, or a choice.

If that's how they want to live their life, so be it.

So, my answer to the question posed in the OP, is yes, I do believe in it. Some people have decided to live like this, even when quite a lot of society are against them. I don't believe many of them are just rebels without a cause, I believe most are quite sincere.

They never cause me any problems. I don't have any weird dogmatic beliefs that would cause me to hate them, so live and let live.