Is Yahweh really the prime creator?

Now I remember a story form India that I wish to tell here.

In a village was a pandit (a learned man) who always said about nearly everything: "It is only an illusion!" One day the villagers got fed up with that, threw him in the well and shouted down to him: "This is also an illusion!" Then they went away...

Originally posted by memyself

I feel a lack of consideration for those who suffer. It is so easy to theorize up on the cloud where you don't hear the screams from below.

Ah, I see... You perceive me as on some cloud far far from the suffering of others. Sorry my Brother, but you have this so very wrong.

I was molested repeatedly as a child, which I eventually grew past.
I was repeatedly beat and tormented as a child for I was scrawny and had a lazy eye. This too I grew past.
I then joined the United States Marine Corps where I was exposed to all manner of sufferings of others. I served for 14 years. I helped alleviate suffering where I could, and opened eyes of those who would listen.
I left the Marine Corps because my body couldn't take it anymore. For disability I receive a whopping $123.00 for breaking my body down over 14 years. No medical, No problem, I grew past it.
Since leaving the Corps I have given up everything I owned helping others through these difficult times. My greatest achievement here was taking a homeless man and his boy off the streets. The man now has a job, has reunited with his ex who left him for his alcoholism, and the state is no longer riding his ass for having a kid on the street. I left him the last of my belongings to set up a house hold for his family.
I now live with my father, in the basement, where I sleep on the floor. I work where I can to bring in money which I give to my father to make ends meet. I am wanted by the law because I smoke weed to deal with the pain from serving my country. I have reunited my own family since I returned home, they had seperated over trivial issues.

I practice what I preach, I love all, and I have made a difference in the lives of many. I only seek to do the same for everyone I meet. It is admittedly difficult to do over the internet, but I try, for the audience is larger here.

I do the do, my Brother, not sit on a cloud and pontificate. I am embarrassed that I had to reveal all this, but hope it opens your eyes to who I AM.

With Love,

Your Brother

[edit on 3-9-2010 by IAMIAM]

[edit on 3-9-2010 by IAMIAM]

[edit on 3-9-2010 by IAMIAM]

reply to post by IAMIAM


Dear Brother, I apologize for having misjudged you.

There are at least three common attitudes in the world concerning people who suffer:
1. Why t.h. should I care? Get away from me!
2. If they have chosen to suffer, let them have it. It is their problem. Their time will come. I prefer to look up to the sky and take care of my own blessing. (A kind of escapism from realities in this world.)
3. They have chosen it through their past actions and it is their karma, and this is the recoil. It is regrettable, but they are having a lesson and I shouldn’t interfere. (An attitude not rare in Central and East-Asian cultures, where people avoid to “interfere with the karma” of others.)

4. But I want to say: Even if 3. is true, it is our duty to help and do what we can to alleviate suffering. Even if the one who suffers is going through a lesson, it will be enough with what he/she already had, and to that the person gets another lesson: a lesson of love, experiencing the love he/she didn’t understand to give to others before (mostly in past lives). The person experiences being cared for and about, and learns to do so him/her-self for the future. And if we don’t help where we can, we may ourselves instead acquire own negative karma (from the “act of omission”).

It appeared to me that your posts were to some degree of the nature 2. above and now I understand that your attitude humbly and quietly is more of the kind 4., and that you are a great soul who has developed much in this life, which I honestly respect you for. Yet I think that the issue we discuss here is an important one that has been avoided in the past. Few have dared to take this basic issue of the main religions up for discussion from this aspect: that religions have degenerated to be tools for power and control and cause more harm and suffering than good - and that what we really need is a true and honest new religion at the roots of the hearts of people. This religion is LOVE, indiscriminate love, making no difference at all between people only because of their creed, color, culture, social level or what have you. And that this LOVE is LIVED and not just a theory. This is what the real Christ taught us through his messenger Yeshua (Jesus), a message that has been twisted and distorted by the Churches and made into another tool for power, in His place establishing a fake Christ for us.

And that we even love those who do harm to us in the sense of "Father, forgive them, because thy don't know what they are doing!"

It is certainly time that eyes are opened for this issue and that it is openly discussed, and that we cast off the yoke of false gods and teachers, some of whom even dare to teach love without practicing it… or teach love only for those who live and think as they do, but not for all the others (or even hatred for the others).

So, my Brother, I conclude with my wishes of LOVE and LIGHT! Don’t be embarrassed for what you have revealed, it honors you! I believe that you live more love than I so far have been able to...


[edit on 4-9-2010 by memyself]

[edit on 4-9-2010 by memyself]

I wish to add a general consideration of this discussion. As someone has stated above, it tends to drift off to side issues. There even is a “technique” sometimes used in discussions to focus on side issues and deviate the scope away from the central issue, out in the periphery, to have it finish in a “dead end lane”. We will not play that game here. Whatever certain theories may object, texts like the apocryphic ones of Christian Gnostics – which apparently became suppressed and regrettably to some extent destroyed, since they came too close to a truth we should not know – are a valuable source of information. According to them, an entity (called Yaldabaoth by the Gnostics and as the description in the texts goes obviously more or less identical to JHWH) arose to be the lord of a dark region – and that region will be where he was cast out and hidden, albeit not to the others who are in the same region, a region we are in ourselves. How that happened is a question we should ask Sophia and higher entities, if we can, and that we here can only speculate about.

Actually it is rather he and we who are hidden - or hiding, in the sense that we have lost knowledge and scope of what is higher, above that region. Those above can look down in the dark region from their levels, but we cannot look up from within it.


[edit on 4-9-2010 by memyself]

[edit on 4-9-2010 by memyself]

------------------------------------. |
.... + Supreme Father of Light... |
=======================... |
| + Supreme God of Heaven... |..|
| + 7 God of Heaven ............. |..|
| + 7 Goddess of heaven ........ |..|
| + 7 Archangels of heaven.... |..|
..............(Above/Heaven)..........|
-------------------------------------- |..|
| + Jesus Christ the King of Earth. |..| + King of Darkness
-------------------------------------- |..| + 7 Archangel of Darkness
............ (Bottom/Earth)........... |
| + 7 God of Earth or land..... |.. |
| + 7 Goddess of Earth.......... |.. |
| + 7 Archangelom of Earth...|.. |
|.... + Supreme God of Earth....|.. |
============================

The Name of God is Secret is sacred only those who called by God and chosen can call his name. His name is so powerful
it can kill you or you will be punish call without baptized by them. We can call the name of Jesus because we baptized in
the name of Jesus Christ.

reply to post by memyself


brilliant ! love it. Thank you, will save.
Reminds me of the story of the student who kept getting hit with a stick each day when he went to learn the truth of life from the guru. I disremember the exact details, but he basically said
"I came to learn the truth of life and each day you hit me with a stick and I am tired of it." and the guy says something like "You have learned, go your way."

Regarding the "Y" word, I no longer use it as it is on the 120 page report of criminal terms. Be ware.

Re: Headmaster

I can see, that you have moved your pulpit from your church and have put it up here.

Personally I consider your sermon off-topic. If it demonstrates anything at all, it's the endless missionary obsession of fundamentalists.

reply to post by memyself


Just to make sure we are on the same page. I would like to know what kind of entity "Yaldabaoth and Sophia" really are?

How would you picture them?

I have read a lot about this and seen a lot of programs with different authors,to what i call a alternative religion.

I dont think we are on the same page or speak the same language when it comes to describing what these entities are.

I have tried to describe with images what Yaldabaoth must be. If Yaldabaoth always was and always is. Yaldabaoth must be the infinite dimension which holds everything. My image to describe the infinite was with a totally black image.

-Do you disagree that Yaldabaoth Thee God of everything can not be this dark infinite dimension?

- If Yaldabaoth is one entity, one body/dimension. Sophia must be a different one. Don't you agree?

- How would Yaldabaoth create Sophia?


Yaldabaoth could not have created Sophia by just a thought alone. How would you describe the process, and how could Sophia have a separate awareness, and create on her own? She wouldn't have a dimension to create in.

Can you help me understand all this please, because i am just as interested in this topic as you are, Its a fascinating myth. Though it might seam like i am disagreeing. You have to understand that i use a different approach to figure this out.









[edit on 27.06.08 by spy66]

Re: spy66

I'm aware, that your post was directed to memyself and my present comment represents only my own perspective (for what it's worth). I'm not speaking on anybody's behalf.

The validity of the concept of Sophia is as hard to demonstrate as any other non-mundane phenomenon, especially if we use mundane methodology. Guess many people would call it 'spiritual', and as such deductive logic or empirical science are practically useless.

Mainly we only have experiences to use as evidence, but what with the psychology of human perception and mankind's almost obsessive need to fabricate premature conclusions, I think the safest bet is to just think, that there is a feminine aspect to universal creation, sometimes called the 'mother goddess', and sometimes having 'local' names like Kuan Yin, Sophia etc.

Mary, mother of Jesus, has sometimes a similar function in certain parts of christianity, but for doctrinal reasons Pauline 'christianity' has put her in an inferior position.

I myself believe, that I for a period experienced such a cosmic or trans-cosmic feminine energy. But don't take my word for it, I have no missionary or prophetic attitudes around this.

What's sometimes called the 'archonts' (the group of entities Yaldabaoth belongs to), is said to be a kind of offspring of Sophia, but descending deeper towards the physical aspects of cosmic existence. As with Sophia, a hard-science approach is impossible so far, but the experienced evidence of them is slightly more extensive than with Sophia. These guys turn up everywhere and anytime, and you don't even need to be disposed towards religion to experience them. Even staunch atheists can, and have percieved them.

The ideas of Sophia and archonts are typical of gnosticism, but then gnosticism isn't/wasn't completely homogenous. If you're very interested, take a look at John L. Lash "MetaHistory". He presents one scholarly brilliant and very readable version of the Sophia myth. I disagree with some of his conclusions, but will nonetheless recommend him as a supplement to this excellent thread.

Validating such ideas as the one presented on this thread, CAN be done with help of inductive reasoning. But it's dangerous ground, as is demonstrated by how various fanatics arrive at imbecile nonsense by misusing it.

Mymeself has already touched on the process of creation at thoughtlevel, but in any case, I believe he can explain it better than me.



[edit on 4-9-2010 by bogomil]

reply to post by bogomil


Its ok for you to replay as well. The more information i get the better it is for me to add things up. And reply with more questions


There is one thing you mentioned that should make this myth provable in a scientific way one way or another.

You mentioned something about these entities appearing spontaneously out of nowhere. In other words taking a physical form so that we can observe them. I have never seen one, so i have no idea of what shape or form they usually take. I have only read myths about it.

But if they take a physical form/shape of some kind. Not a holographic image but a physical one. They must use energy from our observable dimension. And the entity must compress the energy within our dimension into a shape that we can observe. How they are able to do that is what i am trying to figure out.

To be able to do something like this "appear" out of nowhere and become a specific physical form over a period of time. You have to be everything that exists. There is no way a lower God of entity can compress energy at any given location and time without a external force to push on him.

Personally i dont think a Godly entity has appeared physically, it can only be a myth. But what i do believe is that a entity with Awareness can tap into our awareness through the energy fields that are. The Godly entity can tap directly into our mind and put thoughts and probably images into our heads. That means the energy fields that surround us work like a communication and a learning device. We use this energy field in much the same way with Radio frequencies.







[edit on 27.06.08 by spy66]

Re: spy66

Thanks for your answer.

I was shortly tempted to embark on an ego-inspired short selfbiography, but let it stay with, that I after 45 years on a search for 'reality' have seen some pretty weird things. Either I'm delusional/megalomaniac or I really have had periods of enhanced perception.

I really don't care, what I believe it is, or what others believe it is. My method for establishing credibility is through comparative analysis of experiences from all over the world. And also including a theoretical aspect, e.g. from science and not too hysterically-doctrinal ideologies.

Sorry about this digression., and to the point.

I don't think, that I concerning my own experiences mentioned physical manifestations (though it has happened once in my case). In a moment I will return to your rather good example of radio-waves, but first I will present a few general observations on anomalous experiences (and here I'm not totally excluding the possibility of physical 'aliens' or physical indigenous entities from our planet. I'm just referring to the non-corporeal entities mostly observed).

One of the most common aspects of anomalous entities is that they seem to be electromagnetic. Electric equipment goes haywire, compasses swing and electronic gadgets suddenly get a life of their own. Voices coming from TVs and radios etc.

So these entities are most likely energy fields, as you suggested. I would add, electromagnetic fields. Now it's not common knowledge, that 'matter' as we experience it, really isn't MATTER, but interaction between the outer electron shells in atoms, and as such most of our senses are indirectly a question of electromagnetism (gravity is one exception). But as vision is the sense most directly associated with electromagnetism, it's the easiest way of experiencing electromagnetic entities.

These entities CAN, with some difficulties, switch to the areas of (what's called) matter, but it apparantly takes so much energy to do this transformation, that they usually avoid it. I have 'heard' in the good old-fashioned sense (not telepathically or through electronic equipment), and I have touched (a small animal). But that was exceptions.

I can only repeat: I'm not proposing any conclusions on this, but a comparison to other experientees can possibly form a pattern.

As you said, it's like radiowaves, and there's both the sending and recieveing end of it. Advanced individuals amongst electromagnetic entities can send quite well for longer periods. Others can keep it up for a few minutes. Humans, on the other hand, have the recieving end, which can be tuned into the extra 'dimensions' memyself talked about earlier. Sometimes cutting off our standard 3 'dimensions' and operating solely on the 2 'above'. More seldom having all 5 'dimensions' active at the same time.

This electromagnetic field isn't the private property of 'godly' beings, but it certainly has been used as if it is. Many of these electromagnetic entities pose as 'gods' for predatory purposes of their own.

Sorry if anyone considers this post as off-topic. But it's directly related to the archon aspect of some gnostic arguments; in a contemporary jargon.

reply to post by spy66


Hello,
I think that bogomil has already given some good answers.
And he already pointed out: Sophia created Yaldabaoth and not the other way around.

I think that we should try to be aware of a multidimensional cosmos, however difficult it is.

If cosmos is, say (just as an example) 9-dimensional and we can perceive only three dimensions - how would that be?

reply to post by CestLaVie


Thanks!
New to me: Which of the "Y" words we have used here? And how come on a criminal record?

Is the word maybe abused in a totally different context?

Re: memyself

thanks for your kind words. I was a bit worried about appearing as hijacking the thread. If I show later tendencies of that, I will be grateful for hints from you of it.

The multiple-dimensional universe model is hard to approach. After years of wrestling with it, I've come to an uneasy balance with myself, but to explain it......

Repeating myself somewhat, I think it's an overall question of 1/ on one hand exploring relative 'realities' up and down a scale of 'visibility'/'understandability' and 2/ relevant perspective.

It's bad enough to find correct 'vision'/'understanding' AND proper perspectives. We also have to make both facets match.

E.g. science is a rather good perspective on the 'matter' world, lousy on trans-mundane existence. Inverted CAN the same by said of some 'spiritual' perspectives (and some are just manure, which I believe to be a housebroken word).

Originally posted by memyself
reply to post by spy66

 

Hello,
I think that bogomil has already given some good answers.
And he already pointed out: Sophia created Yaldabaoth and not the other way around.

I think that we should try to be aware of a multidimensional cosmos, however difficult it is.

If cosmos is, say (just as an example) 9-dimensional and we can perceive only three dimensions - how would that be?

I will answer your question first because its the easiest one.

We can observe two separate dimensions with our eyes. We can observe the wast volume of space which the 4th elements exist within. And we can observe the 4th dimension if.... it is dense enough and large/small enough to distinguish it self from the volume of space surrounding it.

NB. I call one of the dimension for a wast volume because it is infinite. What is within this infinite dimension are all the 4th until you pic a specific dimension within the infinite dimension to study. It is the elements within the infinite that has different dimensions.

----------------

When it comes to who created who. It really doesn't matter. They are just Names. But what they are dimensionally does matter. Because it determines if they are true Gods or not.

If Sophia is the true God of everything she must have a specific dimension that only she can have. No other God can be the dimension that she is. If Sophia created Yaldabaoth she must have created him/it by a compression. Because what ever she creates can only be of her and within her. That is what a dimension will tell you. But the dimension he/it is built up of will not be the same dimension of energy as she is of.

If she compressed her own dimension to create Yaldabaoth he/it would start out very small like a seed and expand. In other words he/it would grow within her dimension. Like a mother who is pregnant. But what differs Sophia from a human mother is that Sophia can not cast out/give birth like a human female can. There is no other dimension for her to deliver Yaldabaoth to.

Does this add up?







[edit on 27.06.08 by spy66]

Originally posted by headmaster
The Name of God is Secret is sacred only those who called by God and chosen can call his name. His name is so powerful
it can kill you or you will be punish call without baptized by them. We can call the name of Jesus because we baptized in
the name of Jesus Christ.

Greetings my Brother,

You have painted a beautiful hierarchy in your post. I must ask however, do you really need so many intermediaries between yourself and God?

God created everything from himself did he not? If you agree to this basic truth, then surely you can see that he resides in everything. Is the head of a pin as much the realm of heaven as the stars? Is the divine intelligence but the source of the spark which resides in all of us to perceive it? Another fundamental truth, that once you see, will make intermediaries unnecessary.

The name of God is not secret my Brother. God is beyond a name. If you Name it, you limit it, thereby making it inferior to yourself. The power of the name of God is that, once you Named it, you have put yourself above it. That is how it kills you. You place yourself away from God. It is a spiritual death, a distancing from the truth. Jesus Christ, was himself baptised. Was he baptised in his own name? Of course not, he was baptised to his Father, our Father, the unnamable God. Is Jesus not the Son of God? Of course he was. And, So I AM the Son of God, and so are you THE Son of God.

"The" denotes our uniqueness. "Son of God" reveals the source of our existence.

We are all called by God my Brother. Even the Atheist!

Does the Atheist not do the will of God by revealing how great his creation is?

We all do Gods will. Unfortunately, our own ego bids us to presume we know the will of God better than our Brother. So, we judge their actions, according to our own perceived will of God. My perception is that the Will of God is to Love. I perceive this because all I see in this creation is Love. Each and every person I have met has demonstrated this truth to the best of their ability. Those who have harmed me, have only demonstrated how powerful Love is. For even in their injury, they were not able to take it from me. I loved them still.

I won't judge your actions Brother. I won't judge your hierarchy of existence as you presented it. You must need it for you to share it. I do ask that you elaborate further on it, that I may understand your position better.

With love,

Your Brother

[edit on 4-9-2010 by IAMIAM]

Originally posted by memyself
So, my Brother, I conclude with my wishes of LOVE and LIGHT! Don’t be embarrassed for what you have revealed, it honors you! I believe that you live more love than I so far have been able to.
[edit on 4-9-2010 by memyself]

Thank you for your many kind words Brother. I am neither above you nor below you, but right here with you. My life has only presented me with different opportunities to love than yours has, and you have loved to the best of your ability, at every given moment. So have all regardless of all.

Your Brother.

reply to post by spy66


We can observe three dimensions with our eyes (and other organs of perception). As a consequence, our mind and thinking are three-dimensional and it is really hard for them to grasp concepts of more than three dimensions. And there will no doubt be more than four, but the fourth is the maximum we can grasp A LITTLE BIT of, if we consider it as time, but it is more than time. However, 5, 6 and more dimensions we fail to grasp with our minds, but we can do it in mathematics. The sum of all dimensions there are (and we don't know how many) will be the “infinite dimension”.

There is nothing in the Gnostic texts that says that Sophia is the true God. She is a lower-level emanation of Barbelo, who is His creative power, considered feminine. Sophia isn’t the Creation, she is in the Creation. Yet she, too, created. Compression or not – who knows how? And where does it say she cannot “cast out” what arises in her? She is in some of the dimensions, but not all, because that is where the Creator God is. So why shouldn’t Yaldabaoth also be in some of the dimensions, but not all, and separate from her?

I think that this discussion goes around in circles and rather leads nowhere than anywhere…

reply to post by bogomil


Thank you. I like your way of explaining, its more in the same view i use to explain my own work.

I to have had some unexplainable things happen to me. But they where not physical but more internal within my own awareness.

I used to be a Combat Diver until 2004. The reason i choose to quite is what is so strange. I used to be very good at being a combat diver, I was very determined and loved the action that the job presented occasionally. And i would do anything for my country and government. You wont become or make it if you dont have these goals "its hard as hell".

But in 2001 something started to happen to my awareness. These questions kept on appearing in my mind. The questions that kept on turning up more and more, was:

"Do you think it is right to kill a man just because a politician tells you its the right thing to do".

It was not the only question that kept on popping up more and more frequently. But it was like i had to make a choice. I tired to ignore it all but it got more and more intense. Until i made my choice.

I told my self "No" its not the right thing to do. I have no right to kill anyone based on politics.

After i had made the choice. A more physical change happened. I lost the will to stay in my job as a soldier.

When i told my superiors about why i wanted to quite. All hell broke lose.


This experiance is what has lead me to try and find answers. I have no idea of how or where i got these questions from. Because up to a point i loved what i was doing. And i was hoping i would be sent to Afghanistan to fight the Taliban. I was watching the news and practically praying for it to happen. And than suddenly this happens!!!

The God debate ... what is fact and fiction...

Fiction: God is a creator.
Fact: Man has neither talked, or come into any distance with the creator.
Fact: The Bible has been re writte and interpreted diffrently 1000x
Fact: The Bible has been trnaslated.. not exactly 100% accurate, if anchient cultures were alive they would be confused of our side of THEIR story
Fiction: Humans know everything
Fact: There are Trillions x Trillions of planets in the universe, among A LOT of those planets are civilizations which have their own perspective on the creator and they are wondering jsut like you who the "Real" God is.

the thing is who cares!? seriosuly, you have your own life. Life is a GIFT!!! Just enjoy your gift in 3D form while you can. stop worrying about "whos the real God, or right religion". Religion is conspiracy like it or not. i understand yes, people go to churches and religious organizations to find somthing that will help out their life, or they are born into a religion and it becomes all they know. The thing is what people dont know is who they really are and what they are doing here. thats the conspiracy they lose they're selves in religion and forget who they are. To this day people just think they know everythign there is to know... WE DONT KNOW S- -T lool

God is not the creator, people who want to use the bible or their silly religions to PROVE something they havent seen before or know 100% abuot .. you need to get out of your belief system and live your life. Your rules, your happiness. thats all that really matters, treat your spirit/Soul with Love and Happiness and dont listen to what people think about it.

the one lesson people need to learn is that WE DONT KNOW ANYTHING! we are on a tiny Rock among KTRILLLIONS! flying through infinity of darkness around a star which is also among trillllions. so seriously people from a universal perspective WTF do we know ? my answer is notta, all we know is whats on this planet, we dont even know our Galaxy which again is among trillions. so you want to talk about the creator and God? well the debate will go longer the the universe itself

So my msg is just Live life with happiness and looots of Love