Is Yahweh really the prime creator?

Originally posted by Matteus
reply to post by pepsi78

 

I mean look the 7 archangEL : MichaEL, GabriEL, RaphaEL, UriEL, RaguEL, RemiEL and SaraqaEL
maybe the EL is like the tradmark here, the angels who are human protector

Yes from EL"yon" that sums it up in a way, if not very big coincidence.

Talking about names, funny you bring it up, but I noticed a patern in latin names, they all contain AN.
Of course latin names trace to the Roman Empire and Roman culture.
Almost all the names in latin has AN in them. Like roman names ROM-AN

Back to the EL definition let's not forget the most basic one ANgEL, it does end also with an EL and starts with AN. But this may be to the fact that EL in latin means HIM in english and does refere to the masculine, there for all the angles are masculine. AN stands as no angel has free will, or has it but it is not alowed free will. I will comment on this later. An is also from sumeri"AN" and from the first god of ancient sumer named AN so it gets really really connecting.

but the El as enlil seems to be different of El elyon..

It is weir that elyon sounds like el Lion or " he lion" and some say humans have been created b the lion people or feline races.....

There is no indication in any ancient culture of this, in Egypt for haps cats were seen as divine animals but that is about it. The spinx is a lion, but it's not depicted as a god ?

So maybe they are all imposters enki, enlil, yahweh anu etc......

but I read el elyon have been associated with yahweh too....

Well because Elyon is also asociated with the elohim, Elohim transltated means gods, as in many gods.
Yahweh is one of the elohim ? Notice the name "EL"ohim. All derivations do start with the EL from the Elyon name, means the most high god, the Elohim means gods.... children of the big EL ? Elyon ?

anu = from Sumerian *An = sky, heaven

It later got translated into "Anu" later in other cultures after sumerian. The name of the original sumerian god was "AN" then later anu in other cultures like babylon.

An is an anunaki there for the name. Here is an intresting fact AN in latin means year. Some where along the lines someone has stipulated that it means destiny.

Anyway I look forward to re opening this thread up for debate.

reply to post by Matteus


Well there are ways to grasp God compare to other dimensions.

If God is the infinite dimension all other dimensions must be different, because they can not be infinite.

If the infinite dimension wants to create a different dimension it can only be done one way. By a compression.

If you take a white sheet of paper and think that it represents the infinite dimension "God".

On this sheet of paper you want a dot to appear (a new dimension) smack in the middle.

If you look at the white sheet of paper you can't find any dot's to put in the middle, because the dot doesn't exist.

You can take a pen and create the dot. But then the white sheet of paper wouldn't be infinite or the creator. You would be.

But if you are the infinite white sheet of paper: how would you create the dot if you don't have a pen?

If you understand the idea. You will know that there are no other Gods but the infinite. The infinite dimension owns everything it creates.

Maybe I didn't understand the reasoning but here is mine using your way of illustrating it :

We human are dots so God the infinite can create dots and still be infinite.

Now my guess is God the most hight is what contains and sustains everything: matter and non matter, living thing and non living things.

The idea is what if God the infinite create a dot ( and it did because we are the dots, evidence it can create dots)....

and that very dot create another dot = another god ( finite and imperfect) creating humans ( finite and imperferct)

Following that reasoning and taking a look at old myth ( that may have have some truth) they say basically " The supreme god" create gods that create other things : one created the dragons and dinosaurs the others plants... etc

and one created the humans....

So if that is the case what is the identity of that god ?

Originally posted by Matteus

So if that is the case what is the identity of that god ?

edit on 17-4-2011 by Matteus because: (no reason given)

edit on 17-4-2011 by Matteus because: (no reason given)

edit on 17-4-2011 by Matteus because: (no reason given)

I don't know you have to read the myths. I hardly doubt thee God proclaimed anyone else as God(s) but him self.

The only possibility is that others have given them selves the title God without Gods consent, or humans have given the title to someone more superior than them selves. Like a great hunter or a skilled warrior this was very common in those times and even up to the Roman era.

Humans have had different Gods for almost everything there is.

I found some interesting arguments for pro and against,
Yahweh is sometimes refered to Elyon and sometimes Elyon is apart from Yahweh in a clear way a separate entity.

Argument for, an example:

Samuel 22:14 — "Yahweh thundered from heaven, the Most High [Elyon] uttered His voice."

This is apart, Yahweh and Elyon(the most high) are separate entities, Elyon(the most high) herd Yahweh voice.

Psalm 97:9 — "For you, Yahweh, are most high [Elyon] above all the earth."

This is clear refering to Yahweh as the most high above the earth, in this instance Yahweh is refered as to Elyon(the most high)

I noticed Elyon is not god's name, it just means most high god.

For example Yahweh is the most high above earth, refering to the fact that there are other gods below him and he is most high above the earth.

But then comes a text where there is another Elyon (most high) and Yahweh is refered as a child.



There are other clues that there were originally multiple gods, take Psalm 82 for example, where Yahweh stands in the council of the gods.

1. Psalm of Asaph. God stands in the council of the gods; he judges among the gods.
2. How long will you judge unjustly, and show preference to the wicked? Selah.
3. Judge the poor and the orphans; do righteousness to the afflicted and dispossessed.
4. Deliver the poor and oppressed; save them from the hand of the evil.
5. They do not know and they have no understanding; they walk about in darkness. All the foundations of the earth are shaken.
6. I said, “You are gods, and children of Elyon, every one of you.”
7. But you will die like mortals, and fall like one of the princes.
8. Rise up, O God, and judge the earth, for you have inherited all the nations.

So Elyon is not a god name, but means most high, in some cases Yahweh is most high above some other gods.
But there is another "most high", what we call the primordial creator. God, the creator.

The question then remains, if Yahweh is the Elyon (most high) above the earth, is he our creator ?
We see there is another Elyon even higher.

The text does refere to him as god of this planet, but that he "inherited" it
8. Rise up, O God, and judge the earth, for you have inherited all the nations.
So he is god on this planet, but is he the creator of the human kind.

Very very confusing...maybe these are just names to describe god, and Yahweh and Elyon are one and the same, maybe what we refere to Yahweh is the creator of man kind, there for our god , or maybe not.

One thing I'm sure of there is a god.

Apparently they are mortals

reply to post by Matteus

Check this text out.

When El Elyon gave to the nations their inheritance,
when he separated the sons of men,
he fixed the bounds of the peoples according to the number of the sons of God.
For Yahweh's portion is his people,
Jacob his allotted inheritance."

This is from the dead sea manuscripts.
So Elyon gave Yahweh his portion, the people of Israel.
In this case the most high I presume is not Yahweh.

I was thinking that none of the names are god's name, and that god may not have a name at all.
All these names present gods names in different forms, as Lord= Yahweh, or Elohim = Creator, or Elyon as most high. Maybe these terms were used to be applied to gods and any of this names can belong to any god. like showed in the case of Elyon.

I must still wonder and ask who is our creator, I'm sure there is one.

There is one creator.

Those gods who seem to be physical beings go by many names, the greek will call them zeus, cronus, poseidon and so on ...the romans will call them neptune lile for poseidon, saturn and so on...

The sumerian will call them anu ( uranus), enkin enlil and so on....
and the bible will call them the anakim or the nephilim.

The other cultures give them other names too.

Yes that s what I think too, maybe the true creator has no name even though you can give name to anything

reply to post by memyself


Sorry but i dont agree with your translation, as elohim & elohem mean 2 different things. The correct translation, which has a dual meaning is ‘goddess or offspring of the goddess‘ you may want to recheck your research on this. It is extremely refreshing however that you were willing to actually research this, & not simply take things on face value, so thumbs up for a post well done. You are correct that god is refered to in plural many times in bible, as they, them & such like. Ie: garden of eden, tower of babel, vision to abraham etc.. You are also right in that the bible also refered to other gods. If you want to go further with research may i suggest ‘sophia‘. This was the name of goddess, but certain men tried to remove her from history. They failed!

The name of the creator as given in the bible is ‘i am‘... Which makes me ponder about ”i think, therefore i am”...

The name of the creator as given in the bible is ‘i am‘... Which makes me ponder about ”i think, therefore i am”...