Why the west should fear muslims

reply to post by ollncasino


Economical? Are you talking about currency?
Or the second translation.
www.merriam-webster.com...

reply to post by ollncasino


While I do not agree with the position that you have consistently taken on the one subject you gravitate to here on ATS, I do want to commend you upon the depth of your knowledge of this subject and to the unerring consistency of your posts.

You display a level of professionalism not often seen here and I, for one, do appreciate that.



[edit on 8/25/10 by Hefficide]

reply to post by ollncasino


I am often amazed with others who can qoute line by line and verses from religious text. Their memory astound me. But my amazement ends when that is all they could do to expound the teachings, for which the verses were intended much more for.

Their intelligence ends with pure regurgitation of lines, worse than a computer that processes codes, at least the computer combines other codes to formulate the data upon the screen to display understanding so that the user may form his opinions.

But alas ollncasino, you are no computer processor nor one who understood what those lines meant except to find your own agenda that you continually spout here, no different from the religious radicals from every religion.

If uncheck, it will only lead to violence, and that being an uncivilised human that you had shown yourself to be, only natural.


Every religion seeks to protects its faithfuls. And religion had come in times fo sufferings an pains. which our ancestor mankind seeks for solace and believed that perhaps a higher being exists, which accounted for the wonders of the world, but corrupted by the deeds of evil men whom they witnessed.

And very often, that piteous call was answered, through epiphanies and profound mass witnessed miracles recorded in history which NO MAN can deny. Our Creator, with many names and comprehensions of the level of the intelligence of that society at that time, answered and showed the path.

Being taught and comforted, our different ancestors then decided not to mix with those who offered no solutions but only pain and suffering. NOT BEING FRIENDS with non-believers is not a social phenomon only associated with Muslims. It is similar with ALL religions and even Buddhism, which is only a way of life.

For none wish for further pain and sufferings and lead down the wrong path. ALL of us humans are brothers and sisters by divine Creation, and has the same Creator, with the same message all along to move back upon the same guided path.

But here you are, just like a snake oil salesman peddling your wares, to misdirect mankind upon the wide road of hate to achieve your agenda, or whatever deluded superiority you presumed to possess.

People of your kind are far worse than atheists, because atheists honest and forthrightly boldly made their claims, and too had been following the path laid down, hurt and harm no one. which ultimately will lead him to know our Creator in His time, and not at anyone else's pleasure.

But your kind insidiously spread hate and diversion amongst us brothers and sisters. Mercy be upon you, my brother by divine Creation.

Originally posted by babloyi
Oh dear. You copy-paste a wall of text from some anti-Islam site, and then I am required to go through each one of them to show how it is faulty?

Seriously?

The univesity of Leeds,
The official website of Ahmadiyya Muslim Community &
The centre for Muslim Jewish Engagement

are anti-Muslim websites?

Go figure.

Lets take a look at one of your accusations

Originally posted by babloyi
58:14-15, for example, isn't even talking about non-muslims.

This page provides 20 translations. Here is the first 4.

Generally Accepted Translations of the Meaning

Muhammad Asad ART THOU NOT aware of those who would be friends with people whom God has condemned? They are neither of you [O believers] nor of those [who utterly reject the truth]: and so they swear to a falsehood the while they know [it to be false].

M. M. Pickthall Hast thou not seen those who take for friends a folk with whom Allah is wroth? They are neither of you nor of them, and they swear a false oath knowingly.

Shakir Have you not seen those who befriend a people with whom Allah is wroth? They are neither of you nor of them, and they swear falsely while they know.

Yusuf Ali Turnest thou not thy attention to those who turn (in friendship) to such as have the Wrath of Allah upon them? They are neither of you nor of them, and they swear to falsehood knowingly.

www.islamawakened.com...

It is blindling obvious that Allah is talking about unbelievers (if you aren't sure, read the whole chapter).

You are big on accusations and poor on evidence.

I have merely presented the word of Allah (may he be praised) as his humble servant.

After all, isn't the word of Allah eternal?





[edit on 25-8-2010 by ollncasino]

Originally posted by ollncasino

After all, isn't the word of Allah eternal?

The word of Allah, the Alimighty with many names, our Creator, are eternal, but certainly not the words of flawed men.

Comprehend the differences before you next post, or you are nothing but one with a radicalised agenda to fulfill here. Second line.

reply to post by ollncasino

I seriously doubt you got this from "The univesity of Leeds, The official website of Ahmadiyya Muslim Community & The centre for Muslim Jewish Engagement ".

And yes, I suggest you read the entire chapter (or at least the from verse 7) for understanding that 58:14-15 ISN'T talking about non-muslims. It is talking about the group of people among the muslims who claimed to be muslim, yet entered "secret councils" where they plotted "iniquity and hostility" against the other muslims.

Originally posted by Hefficide
While I do not agree with the position that you have consistently taken on the one subject you gravitate to here on ATS, I do want to commend you upon the depth of your knowledge of this subject and to the unerring consistency of your posts.

You display a level of professionalism not often seen here and I, for one, do appreciate that.

It is easy on this site to get drawn into making accusations without any proof.

It is a conspiracy site after all.

On the other hand, while most Muslims are harmless enough, it is alarming the amount of information put out about the Koran by posters on line that is quite clearly factually incorrect.

I have to wonder whether some people are merely mistaken or if they have an agenda.

I suspect many have an agenda.

Others have never read the Koran but assume it is a holy book that advocates peace.

It is anything but, which is unfortunate because a small minority of Muslims actually read it properly and do what they are instructed to do - Jihad.

In Islamic doctrine, the Koran is the eternal word of god.

Allah repeats the call for Jihad many times- in fact it is a religious duty that is only excusable if you are too old or sick.

The founder of Islam, Mohammed took this Jihad duty very seriously. He was personally involved in 28 Jihads and planned a total of almost 80.

Even the best Muslim apolgist has to admit that the founder of Islam was directly responsible for killing hundreds of people. The true figure is almost certainly much, much higher.

Originally posted by babloyi
I seriously doubt you got this from "The univesity of Leeds, The official website of Ahmadiyya Muslim Community & The centre for Muslim Jewish Engagement ".

What gives?

The original quotes were extracts/summaries of the attributed verses.

There was no duplicity.

[edit on 25-8-2010 by ollncasino]

Originally posted by SeekerofTruth101
The word of Allah, the Alimighty with many names, our Creator, are eternal, but certainly not the words of flawed men.

Comprehend the differences before you next post, or you are nothing but one with a radicalised agenda to fulfill here. Second line.

I have quoted numerous reputable translations of the Koran.

I am sorry if the eternal word of Allah, translated into English by Muslim scholars, upsets you.

Originally posted by ollncasino
What gives?

The original quotes were extracts/summaries of the attributed verses.

There was no duplicity.

I didn't say there was any duplicity. What I originally said was "You copy-paste a wall of text from some anti-Islam site, and then I am required to go through each one of them..". Perhaps it could be said that you were practising duplicity in that you didn't SAY that you had got it from another source, but then again, you didn't say you didn't, so I made no mention of that.

Are you saying that you DIDN'T get that list of "extracts/summaries" from an anti-islam site? Because then that would make this much more duplicitous- meaning you intentionally twisted the meaning of several verses to conform to your view, which is opposite to what the original verses meant.

[edit on 25-8-2010 by babloyi]

reply to post by ollncasino


You comprehend nothing but hold fast to your stubborn views of radicalism in a time of necessary peace.

I know not where you get source material for your misguided interpretations of the Koran. The good prophet Muhammad was only a bookish man, but transformed into a warrior and had many wars against the disbelievers - 2 legged animals who had destroyed our Creator's innocent creations mercilessly in the turbulant era of the 7th Century.

Those were the only ones whom had been killed for their crimes against innocent humans. Our Creator is not deaf and the cries from the innocents harmed had rung loud and clear, and something needs to be done. Instead of wiping off entire civilisations off the map, a mortal was task to perform the task to bring a significant portion of mankind in the middle east back on the guided path.

Those who were willing to give up such inhumanity against innocents were spared. Jews were largely left untouched as they too were brothers of the book, so too were true christians of the gospels.

The words of Allah were meant specifically for that dangerous era that was the 7th Century. Today, in this modern century HIs eternal words led to better comprehensions of the guided path and is even adopted into secular constitutions in many nations.

No more are we living in the 7th century nor should we as we must progress, or His blessings and opening up of our minds would have been a waste.

As there was a time for wars in the era that the good prophet lived, so too was there a time for peace.

And today, we live in peace, closer, more integrated and with better comprehension of TPTB that had ruled mankind for centuries, made aware of their tactics, and would have to be very careful of being exploited and divided by false messages to incite hate and fear leading to murder and wars, just as our brothers of the muslim faith had been mislead after the good prophet Muhammad left Earth, and vicious 2 legged beasts stole the message and exploited M.E. humanity until 1911 when the Caliphate was finally destroyed by Divine mercy.


[edit on 25-8-2010 by SeekerofTruth101]

Originally posted by shamus78
Hey

You are a religious bigot and have no purpose here on ATS. The same could be said for any religion.

Deny Ignorance indeed.

Cheers
Shane

Prove the thread opener wrong,
he has just said what's the reality. Maybe you should try to learn more about muslims before calling him a "religious bigot".

Deny Ignorance indeed, by looking at the reality, not ideals, by opposing religious ignorance, not by supporting it.

Originally posted by ollncasino


It is easy on this site to get drawn into making accusations without any proof.

Sure is...while contemplating that perhaps you might consider debating the issues on thier merits rather than casting bigoted aspersions...

Originally posted by ollncasino

Perhaps the answer is that some European countries have up to 10% Muslim populations.

Are many of these 'liberals', in fact, 'wolves in sheep's clothing'?

[edit on 20-8-2010 by ollncasino]

Originally posted by ollncasino
Who are the Muslim apologists on the board?

Its almost as if they had an ulterior motive to pretend they were standing up for freedom.

Perhaps they are a few of the millions of Muslims educated by Europe that wish to bite the hand that feeds them?


[edit on 20-8-2010 by ollncasino]

Originally posted by ollncasino

I have noticed that the majority of apologists for Islam appear to have never actually read any of Islam's teachings.

If they did, perhaps they would change their tune?

Still, perhaps not. Many apologists for Islam are simply Muslims.

Of course, on line, they prefer to pretend to be 'concerned' liberals, but they have their own, obvious agenda.

Originally posted by ollncasino
A Jew attacking Christ but defending Militant Islam, who feints ignorance of the Koran...

Are you really just another Muslim, pretending to be something you aren't?

Originally posted by ollncasino

You are just another Muslim.

Good try though Mr. 'Jew'.

Perhaps, next time, you could try pretending to be Batman?

Originally posted by ollncasino

Yet another wolf in sheep's clothing?

The 'concerned' Liberal mask is wearing a bit thin, so now we have a non religious poster, affiliated to a jewfish website attacking Jesus (as if I care) claiming to be ignorant about the Koran while producing links and quotes from the Koran as quick as a flash.

Something is a bit fishy.

Originally posted by ollncasino


That's the thing. A large proprtion of these outraged 'Liberals' are actually Muslims.

Originally posted by Romantic_Rebel
reply to post by ollncasino

 

Do you agree it's pointless to be critical of others religion? What is your belief in life? How would you find it if I criticized the way you live? Tell me!

I don't think it's pointless whatsoever, the soooner we get people to think about what they believe, to believe in evidence...the sooner our civilisation can unite for a common goal, progression, science and truth enabling us to live together in harmony.

Unfortunately, the religious want to spread their diseased beliefs across the west, so we spend less time thinking and more time praying. Well no, i'm waking up people, serious people with intelligence or at least common sense.

Allah repeats the call for Jihad many times- in fact it is a religious duty that is only excusable if you are too old or sick.

The founder of Islam, Mohammed took this Jihad duty very seriously. He was personally involved in 28 Jihads and planned a total of almost 80.

Even the best Muslim apolgist has to admit that the founder of Islam was directly responsible for killing hundreds of people. The true figure is almost certainly much, much higher.

Note that neither of the two recent Muslim posters have contested the factual accuracy of my above statement.

They appear not to want to open up that particular can of worms.

They know that I will have a field day using their own Koran and the Hadiths to illustrate the killing carried out by Muhammad in his many Jihads.

All we have is this justification:

Originally posted by SeekerofTruth101
Those were the only ones whom had been killed for their crimes against innocent humans. Our Creator is not deaf and the cries from the innocents harmed had rung loud and clear, and something needs to be done. Instead of wiping off entire civilisations off the map, a mortal was task to perform the task to bring a significant portion of mankind in the middle east back on the guided path.

OK. Let's look at a selection of what I can prove

(1) Mohammed besieged a tribe of Jews in Medina, and then, after they had surrendered, beheaded the 800 male Jews of that tribe. The women and children were sold into slavery. One of the girls, who had the pleasure of seeing the husband she had recently married being murdered by Mohammed's men, had the pleasure of spending the first night of her new life as a slave in Mohammed's bed.

(2) Muhammad also authorised the murder of a number of poets (male & female) who had mocked him. One poet was a mother sleeping with her young children. The Muslim assassin had to move a child aside before thrusting his dagger into her chest. Another victim was a male poet who was, according to Muslim sources, over 100 years old. Mohammed then absolved the Islamic murderers of any wrong doing.

(3) Muhammad ordered people to be burnt in their houses for not coming to prayer.

(4) He was also an accomplished caravan raider and a man who had the propensity to execute prisoners who had been political opponents in the past. One such man had fallen foul of Muhammad when Muhammad was in his early days due to being a better story teller than Muhammad,. "Who will look after my young daughter?" cried the man, moments before he was executed. Muhammad then cursed him.

(5) The Koran is full of quotes of Muhammad ordering Muslims to wage holy war on non Muslims. The passages urging violent Jihad date from when he was stronger - his time in Medina and after he had attacked and taken Mecca.

Muhammad's tolerant messages date from when he was weak, when he was a minor preacher in Mecca before he was invited to move to Medina. No matter when they date from, the intolerant preaching greatly out numbers the tolerant teaching.


In light of the character and the message of Muhammad as relayed by the Koran and Hadiths, Jihadists of today are both following the spirit and the letter of Muhammad's teachings.

Luckily, the vast majority of Muslims do not. However, with any significant group of moderate Muslims, there appears always to be an extreme minority who do follow both the spirit and the letter of Muhammad's teachings.

While all Muslims must take a literal interpretation of the Koran, most don't know or don't care what the Koran says.

Some Muslims, usually young males, however do take a hard-line approach and follow the Wahhabism/Salafism school of Islam that demands that we all live out life in accordance with 7th century Islam. Almost all Muslim terrorists come from this Wahhabism/Salafism school of Islam.

Since 1973, the Saudi government has spent $87 billion to promote Wahhabism in the United States, Africa, Southeast Asia and Europe.

According to official Saudi information, Saudi funds have been used to build and maintain over 1,500 mosques, 202 colleges 210 Islamic Centers wholly or partly financed by Saudi Arabia and almost 2,000 schools for educating Muslim children in non-Islamic countries in Europe, North and South America, Australia and Asia.

www.jfednepa.org...

Allegations have been made that the funding for the Ground Zero Mosque is coming from Wahhabism sources.





[edit on 25-8-2010 by ollncasino]

Originally posted by maybereal11
Sure is...while contemplating that perhaps you might consider debating the issues on thier merits rather than casting bigoted aspersions...

So you recon that the poster who had an embedded link to a jewish site at the bottom of his posts and was attacking Christianity but defending Militant Islam and who feinted ignorance of the Koran but could produce Koranic quotes in a flash to illustrate his point was straight up?

Originally posted by ollncasino
A large proprtion of these outraged 'Liberals' are actually Muslims.

I think that would be a fair statement.

reply to post by ollncasino

Hahah...I almost didn't pick up on it, but maybereal is right! It is hilarious how you are throwing around "liberal" and "muslim" as if they were insults. And then you are "accusing" people left and right of being...some sort of undercover muslims? What is this, the new Red Scare?


I wasn't aware I had to respond to every post of yours (I assume I am one of the "two recent muslim posters"? Although I can't tell who the other is), especially ones that didn't address me. You certainly didn't respond to all my points. So what is the situation on that now? Did you copy that list of "extract/summaries" from some website, or research and create it yourself? What do you say about some of the very obvious inconsistencies and inaccuracies in that list (notwithstanding the fact that you contest SOME of them, but you cannot say ALL of them are correct)?

Certainly, Muhammad probably killed many people during the battles that occurred. I didn't deny this. That these battles occurred, I don't deny either. As I have mentioned before, Muhammad was both the religious and political leader of his people (unlike Jesus, who he is often negatively compared to, but much like Moses and Abraham). There were many instances when he had to defend his people from total annihilation.

But again you provide a huge list (which I again suspect is copy-pasted from somewhere). Am I expected to go through each of them to show how the conclusion is wrong?

It isn't a matter of "tolerant passages being fewer than intolerant ones". I've never heard anyone who follows a manual thinking "This manual mentions 50 times that I should press buttons, but only once that I should turn a dial. Therefore turning the dial is irrelevant". All the rules apply to all portions of the Quran and to all the muslims who must follow them.

[edit on 26-8-2010 by babloyi]

The problem is an issue of mindset.

Adding fuel to the fire... Literally:

www.liveleak.com...

70 Schoolgirls And Teachers Poisoned In Kabul

Dozens of schoolgirls and teachers were sickened Wednesday by poison gas in Afghanistan, medical and government officials said.

The latest incident, this one at a high school, is the ninth such case involving the poisoning of schoolgirls, said Asif Nang, spokesman for the nation's education ministry.
Dr. Kabir Amiri said 59 students and 14 teachers were brought to the hospital, and were faring better.

"We don't have good equipment to verify the kind of gas that they were poisoned with, but we have taken their blood tests to send to Turkmenistan for verifying the type of gas" that was used, Amiri said.

Many Afghan girls were not allowed to attend school during the Taliban's rule from 1996 to 2001. Girls' schools began reopening after the Islamist regime was toppled. The United Nations children's agency, UNICEF, estimates that 2 million Afghan girls attend school these days.

But female educational facilities, students and teachers have come under vicious attack as the insurgency has strengthened and spread from Taliban strongholds in the southern provinces of Kandahar and Helmand.

A report compiled last year by the humanitarian agency CARE documented 670 education-related attacks in 2008, including murder and arson. Much of the violence in what CARE called an "alarming trend" occurred at girls' schools.

Everyone says that The Holy Qur'an is a book of peace, and it does not preach hate and violence.

Definitely so, its just a book after all, but it doesn’t change the fact that Muslims deliberately murder westerners because of what they BELIEVE from that book.

I believe the hate has spread to far through the Muslim community, the window to solving the problem peacefully has closed.

reply to post by ollncasino


Do you know what "Jihad" really means? Jihad is the "struggle" of ones self against his own sinful nature. It's been bastardized by extremists and the unthinking into what most now think it's about a war of some physical type. That's not what jihad means.