Why the west should fear muslims

Originally posted by fapython

Originally posted by oozyism
reply to post by Acharya

 

So what does all this seperation, segregation, and hate between the West and the muslims lead to? It *will* lead to violence, where the muslims will attempt to take control of government. mark my words, and beware!

You are saying we should fear Muslims, do you fear me?

Do you want to fear me? Why? Because the TV says so? Have you ever met me?

1. You have generalized all Muslims in to one category.
2. You have painted the world from a very narrow viewpoint.
3. You are saying Muslims have lower IQ than Westerners. Now you are suggesting Muslims are not human lol or naturally stupid, or genetically stupid.
4. You are suggesting Westerners should fight Muslims before they take over?? (I think you are all talks, you go kill the first Muslim and let the fight begin).
5. ... Bla Bla Bla

[edit on 16-8-2010 by oozyism]

I have a question for you that i would like you to answer as honestly as possible.

When your Muslim brothers rise up and try to enforce a world wide Islamic caliphate, which side will you be on? On the side of your adoptive country and its values? or on the side of your Muslim brothers ?

That was just a great comment that I actually said "WOW!" out lound
The question is simple ut has profound implications; what is more important? Your religion or your country?

[edit on 16-8-2010 by Acharya]

Originally posted by cyberfenix
Just a thought that's been in the back of my mind for sometime. If, and I emphasize the word if, a person is of a particular faith, and a country exists that is "run" by this particular faith, would it not be more logical to want to live there? Personally I would not wish to move to a Muslim country as it is not a belief system I share. I definately wouldn't move there and speak ill against the country and the culture. I guess the question I've always had is, why would people move to a "Western"culture if that culture is not something that is supported by their beliefs? If it is due to problems with the government, shouldn't the religion (read here God) help out a little? If someone moves to the beach and complains to me about the sand, I'm going to be offended, regardless of that persons belief in the afterlife. If anything, it shows me that the persons faith has taught them nothing.

A valid point. Pakistani immigrants in Norway have holliday houses in Pakistan, but they choose not to live there, but still is Norwegians are a horrible sinfull bunch

as Stormdancer pointed out all you PC folks crack me up. you would be the first infidels to be beheaded in the middle east... and right before they do it, you can wonder why its happening to you when you could have swore islam is a peaceful religion.

for all of us who live in the real world, we'll be the ones fighting the religious war for you... not a religious war we chose but one that was thrusted in our face and allowed to marinate and grow under the auspices of hussien obama, nancy pelosi and all the others who endorse this peaceful religion and want the victory mosque built at ground zero.

I knew a muslim family who was very well educated, and who i thought was assimilated and glad to live in this country and take advantage of all it had to offer. i was shocked to find they were glad 9-11 occurred and expressed pure joy over this. it made me want to puke and i never talked to them again.

my biggest problem with muslims is that the so called moderates don't rein in the so called radicals. its because the moderates, deep down support the radicals.

no you can't generalize and say all moderates, but its enough of a trend to be worrisome and cause to be vigilant.

if this victory mosque gets built in NY it will be like pouring salt on a still open wound. but i'm sure the PC guys here like shane will be all for it

[edit on 16-8-2010 by insideNSA]

Originally posted by redhead57
I understand the concerns of the OP, if this was going on in the US we would be raging too.

What I find most interesting in this is how free he is to express his opinion. Hmm, in a nation where freedom of speech is paramount

Thank you

Originally posted by redhead57
Political Correctness shames anyone who has a negative view of minorities.

Islam is the world 2. largest religion counting 1.5 billion people, how is that a minority? 1 of 4 people on Earth is a muslim, its not a minority. So why does so many people threat it as it is?

Originally posted by JohnPhoenix


Not all Muslims are going to believe everything the Koran says just like all Christians do not believe everything the Bible says.

Muslims stick together and vote together when in foreign countries. Europe knows that now. America will know in a decade what India, Afganistan and all those middle east countries have been fighting about.

Originally posted by Acharya

Originally posted by SinkingSun
I am from Switzerland and know just how it is. The weird thing is, it seems like some conspiracy how Muslim immigrants are so openly welcomed in such a large quantity when everyone knows it is causing tons of social and political problems, not to mention the raised rates of crime.

One problem in Norway is that we are governed by socialists; at the base of the socialist philosophy is that everyone is born with the same potential, and that any quantifiable difference is only due to the environment the person lives in. This unproven political philosophy causes the socialists to try to re-educate or re-program immigrants and criminals. When it fails they tell themselves that "we must do something wrong" and they build luxary prisons, creates even more lenient laws, and provides even more benefits, because surely it must be the method that is wrong and not the philosophy.

So do you live in Norway?
It's just off putting, that you have an american sport dog as your banner.
Also your location is blank, so I'm not sure where you're at.

How arrogant of them to think that 5-10 years of integration attempts from a bunch of socialists can remove the indoctrination and programming of a 1,500 year old religion.

Ahem, please.
It may appear that way,
but Islam did give rise to Science,
and held on to Greek Philosophy during the roman dark ages,
even made the first mailing systems.

The current interpretation,
is merely a Suicide Memetic-Virus.

A person can be aware of Arabian history,
and consciously choose to hold different values.

A religion that if you leave will mean death or being shunned by your closest family, friends, and your entire social network.

Well the Illuminati has similarities,
based on the Svali materials,
though they are more secretive.


Anyhow memetic reprogramming,
can be accomplished.
We are all turing machines.

The host bodies that have hard wired brains,
may desire to commit suicide in battle,
we can allow them to satisfy their desire,
in a manner that is safe for us.

Such as entities with self-defence capacity,
they are peaceful to any that are peaceful to them,
but if they get attacked, they can fight back.
Remember you can be such an entity.
You have the Ability to Secure your Life.

Can have solid bodies assist we with you,
in mutual protection.

[edit on 16-8-2010 by lowki]

Originally posted by babloyi
reply to post by Patriotgal

 

Originally posted by Patriotgal
reply to post by Acharya

 

Gotta suppport you, here!!! ISLAM, is OPENLY, a violent religion. The koran (yea, i deliberatly spelled it, the way AMERICANS spelled it, before PC!!), PLAINLY says, "lying to "outsiders", is fine". ANYTHING, to get their way, established- then- Sharia Law. Ask ANY Spainard, how THAT went??? Convert, or the sword?? YOUR choice. Sure- christianity, did that- 800 years ago! NOT TODAY!
GET REAL.
GET YOUR HEAD, OUT of your REAR.
Accept reality- NOT P.C.!
Hey, Mohammad- bite me!!!

My, my, my. How very uninformed you are of Islam and the "Koran" (it seriously makes not the slightest difference how you spell it, it isn't even an english word). Tell me, WHERE does it 'PLAINLY says, "lying to "outsiders", is fine"'? Because I'm calling you out on that piece of misinformation.

The principle of Al-Takeyya

The Arabic word, "Takeyya", means "to prevent," or guard against. The principle of Al Takeyya conveys the understanding that Muslims are permitted to lie as a preventive measure against anticipated harm to one's self or fellow Muslims. This principle gives Muslims the liberty to lie under circumstances that they perceive as life threatening. They can even deny the faith, if they do not mean it in their hearts. Al-Takeyya is based on the following Quranic verse:

"Let not the believers Take for friends or helpers Unbelievers rather than believers: if any do that, in nothing will there be help from Allah: except by way of precaution (prevention), that ye may Guard yourselves from them (prevent them from harming you.) But Allah cautions you (To remember) Himself; for the final goal is to Allah." Surah 3: 28

Unfortunately, when dealing with Muslims, one must keep in mind that Muslims can communicate something with apparent sincerity, when in reality they may have just the opposite agenda in their hearts. Bluntly stated, Islam permits Muslims to lie anytime that they perceive that their own well-being, or that of Islam, is threatened

Source: Lying in Islam




[edit on 16-8-2010 by Acharya]

[edit on 16-8-2010 by Acharya]

[edit on 16-8-2010 by Acharya]

Originally posted by Acharya

Unfortunately, when dealing with Muslims, one must keep in mind that Muslims can communicate something with apparent sincerity, when in reality they may have just the opposite agenda in their hearts. Bluntly stated, Islam permits Muslims to lie anytime that they perceive that their own well-being, or that of Islam, is threatened

Source: Lying in Islam

Wow you know, I think that's a pretty good rule of self-preservation.

Say whatever you need to say,
to live another day.
Can say something new,
tomorrow.

The fact that there is an ongoing clash between Islam, and essentially the rest of the world is well established. Everywhere Islam goes, it creates problems.

At the same time, Muslim birth rates are the highest in the world, and they are busy having children that they can not support. This makes a bad situation worse.

North Africa and the Middle East both have large young populations that are continuing to grow, yet live in worsening poverty, in regions that don't have the agricultural or industrial capabilities to support their growing populations.

The young people of N Africa and the Middle East are growing up in a world were they must face a life of poverty, where thing are going to continue to get far worse, or find a way to immigrate to some other place were there is far more opportunity.

This is why Europe is going to continue to see increased pressure for immigration from these countries.

This bodes nothing but ill for European nations, as the growing problems with Islam continue to rise in Europe.

Why should Europeans be forced into lower standards of living because Muslims refuse to practice birth control?

I hate to think of the starving children, but I see no reason to put the future of my children at risk because people in third world nations are having children they can't support. It has been well documented that charity only makes these situations worse in third world nations. Immigration is even a more horrible solution.

If you want to help the third world, start supporting programs that preach about the horrors of overpopulation, and pass out bucket loads of condoms and other birth control devices.

Europe would be foolish not to adopt strict immigration policies, and to start deporting those who continue to be a problem, and refuse to adopt to the culture of the host country.

Either people in the first world nations start to adapt strong policies to protect their culture, or they are going to create a situation where their children and grandchildren are going to be living in the conditions of third world poverty, with no place to go to find opportunity.

Originally posted by Acharya
Its sad that the muslims wont integrate with western society, but the fault is their own. Countless western countries has tried to integrate them but their religion forbids it, the result is immigrant crime etc. The west has threated them kindly, but we get angry people wanting more, and hating us in return. It is not the west that has done them wrong, they have bitten the hand that welcomed and fed them when they were in need, and now we should throw them out of our house for good back into the ruins they came from.

You are talking about all Muslims?? Because it seems to me that you are describing what appears to be the average teenager.

You cannot judge an entire religion or group of human society based on the actions of their (adolescent, angry, hormone raging, easily manipulated) young men. If we would then America would not look so pretty either!!

The real danger must be recognized and that is how easily manipulatable these young men can be for people with more extreme ideas...

Peace

Originally posted by operation mindcrime

Originally posted by Acharya
Its sad that the muslims wont integrate with western society, but the fault is their own. Countless western countries has tried to integrate them but their religion forbids it, the result is immigrant crime etc. The west has threated them kindly, but we get angry people wanting more, and hating us in return. It is not the west that has done them wrong, they have bitten the hand that welcomed and fed them when they were in need, and now we should throw them out of our house for good back into the ruins they came from.

You are talking about all Muslims?? Because it seems to me that you are describing what appears to be the average teenager.

You cannot judge an entire religion or group of human society based on the actions of their (adolescent, angry, hormone raging, easily manipulated) young men. If we would then America would not look so pretty either!!

The real danger must be recognized and that is how easily manipulatable these young men can be for people with more extreme ideas...

Peace

To me the problem seems to be in integrating a large muslim immigrant population into a western country.

Originally posted by operation mindcrime

Originally posted by Acharya
Its sad that the muslims wont integrate with western society, but the fault is their own. Countless western countries has tried to integrate them but their religion forbids it, the result is immigrant crime etc. The west has threated them kindly, but we get angry people wanting more, and hating us in return.

Er they don't want more,
they just want less of you.

They might tell you that they want more,
because that's what you want to hear.

It is not the west that has done them wrong, they have bitten the hand that welcomed and fed them when they were in need, and now we should throw them out of our house for good back into the ruins they came from.

Chances are they wont want to leave.
This is an invasion for all intents and purposes.
I'm surprised you haven't yet sensed that.

Islam invades countries in a well defined manner,
it is described in the "what the west needs to know about islam" video.
First they infiltrate and pretend to live by the local rules,
and when they are strong they crush the locals that don't convert.

Though it seems like they aren't trying to convert people,
their main interest is Islamic Suicide Paradise.

You are talking about all Muslims?? Because it seems to me that you are describing what appears to be the average teenager.

I haven't seen "average teenagers" committing murder and rape as they please.
Well perhaps in Russia, but there they do it to their own kind.
Typically in the name of Capitalism and Debt Collection.

You cannot judge an entire religion or group of human society based on the actions of their (adolescent, angry, hormone raging, easily manipulated) young men.
If we would then America would not look so pretty either!!

America is a pretty ugly place.
At least if you watch any American mass media.
Like the Templars predicted 900 years ago:

Templar Prediction 1100AD
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Will gold be in the blood
Who looks at the sky, there are dollars
Whoever steps into the temple, where traders meet
The lenders will be money changers and usurers.
But the fire will smolder
Each city will be a Sodom and Gomorrah

operation mindcrime
The real danger must be recognized and that is how easily manipulatable these young men can be for people with more extreme ideas...

Manipulated by the Islamic Suicide Paradise meme-virus?

Yes, indeed, we have our own Suicide Viruses in Canada,
the Conservatives claimed "one joint kills",
so kids now play the "choking game" instead,
which means children can actually die of asphyxiation.

The "choking-game" is a Memetic Suicide Virus,
that you may be familiar with.
Emo is a western Suicide Subculture,
where people slash their wrists,
and do depressing things,
a Suicidal Memesphere.

If we really want to alleviate Islamic Suicide Paradise,
we can practice with Emo Choking Game first.
Such as setting up Memetic rehabilitation,
where people experience beneficial memes,
like forest gardening, and intentional communities ic.org...


[edit on 16-8-2010 by lowki]

reply to post by fapython

I have a question for you that i would like you to answer as honestly as possible.

When your Muslim brothers rise up and try to enforce a world wide Islamic caliphate, which side will you be on? On the side of your adoptive country and its values? or on the side of your Muslim brothers ?

Sorry mate, unlike you I don't see the world as black and white.

If by Muslim brothers you are talking about Saudi US puppet kings, then surely I will be the first one in line fighting against them.

I don't agree with cultural Islam, which is fed by the West to destroy Islam's name.

Who's side will I take? Depends doesn't it

Who's side did I take when the US invaded Iraq? Did I go fight against the US in Iraq>?

Didn't Iraq used to be a puppet is well? Ohh hell, US was soooo happy with Saddam when he was killing Kurds and Shiits, but when he cut the strings of the puppet master the US came and took him out.


Ohhh Jeez, yup, some still believe the world is black and white lol


My question is still at large, why do you fear me? Do you know me?

How ignorant, it's not the religion here, it's the education...educate a chistian, a muslim, a buddhist to be violent for their religion, they will so..ALL of them. Religion to begin with is man made, as is ignorant violence man made, it's all up here *points at your head*. I know a lot of muslims, they are all very peaceful, and I have to say, have a much wider view of life than a lot of christians, it's all down to how you were brought up. You may have been brought up to hate people by their 'lable'. Strip everyone down naked, take away their wealth, their upbringing, their religion, everything...there'll be nothing left but a lot of equal human beings.

"Why the west should fear muslims"

Well, I tell you that muslims shouldn't fear the west when they run across such an idiotic title like this. Not calling you an idiot, but certainly calling your title quite idiot.

Why the west should fear razor blades, Why the west should fear bio agriculture, Why the west should fear cotton candy, Why the west should fear fear...

Every sentence you use has to have the word fear in it. Is it an issue? Can't you live your life normally like other countries in the west? I mean, I don't see spanish people afraid of terrorism, and they have terrorists in Spain. I don't see the french afraid of the, nor the Portuguese, nor Brazilians, nor Norwegians, nor ad nauseam... again: YOU are the only western country afraid of terrorism (and you're right, it happened fast and hard), so don't spread your hatred to other countires as well, informed and intelligent people won't EVER buy that. Nice effort and rethorics, though.

I am new in the post area of ATS but I have been reading ATS for a while, specially for the nailing posts on secret societies and the exposure of our goverments.

What I dont understand is how people haven't found teh connection between all the what you are saying here and what the media wants you to believe.

Before, the Chinese were the bad guys, then the Russians and now! The Muslims. To be more specific, Arab Muslims and sorry if I am going to offend anyone but the United States IS the Mecca of hatred media. Wow guys, you do a very VERY good job.

Let me tell you a simple fact:

6,697,254,041 - 2008
Source: World Bank, World Development Indicators
www.google.com/publicdata

"1.2 to 1.57 billion Muslims populate the world, or about 25% of an estimated 2010 world population of 6.8 billion[1] with 80% in Asia (20% in the Middle East ) and 20% of Muslims living in North Africa.[2][3][4][5] Muslims in non-Asian countries account for a minority of total Muslim populations and they are mostly of Asian origin; from South Asia, Central Asia and Middle-east. Also more than half of the Muslim population of the world including those from Pakistan, India, Bangladesh, Indonesia and some from Central Asia(Afghanistan) are Hindu converts. Almost all of them were converted by heavy preaching and service; and not by force."

en.wikipedia.org...

I mean, that IS A LOT OF PEOPLE.


How can you condemn a HUGE amount of people and put them in one little box with a big simple label on it? TERRORISTS

My husband is a Muslim from a Muslim convert family which are very veyr white caucasian people from Irish descendence, half of it South-African and HIGHLY Jewish (ironicaly) They are extraordinary people and yes they are Muslim. I am a Catholic married to a Muslim man, who:

- Does not have any sense of Jihad
- Does not disrespect women
- Does not want to have more than 4 wives
- He does not even pray or have any sense of extremism with him!

The Quran is FACT that is one of the most important and interesting books. If you have four fingers of forehead and open it with a wide-open mind, you will think so.

The Quran talks about the formation of the Fetus, talks about the formation of seas, rivers and mountains, taks about the atmosphere. THis book that was written a very long time ago talked about things that were disconvered this same century like DNA.

and if you are an Atheist, I also have a friend who is an Atheist and I get along with him very well. He also has read teh Quran, the Bible, the Torah just to expand his knowledge. Do what he did, take it as a pintch of salt. Whatever works for you, take it and what not, ditch.

After 9/11 my sister in law was walking with her children in here, the UK and she was STONED by some Chavs calling her terrorist. They also keyed her car and her house was graffiti. Do you think this is fair?

DO YOU THINK THAT BECAUSE OLF THE ACTIONS OF OTHERS (which are an incredible small amount of people), EVERYONE SHOULD BE PUNISHED?

Then! We should send a missile to America straight to the country that has created so much misery in the world. Destroyed all resources in the 3rd World so you can get a freaking shirt at Wallmart for $2!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

and How can you blame them? These extremist do not know better because they have been BRAINWASHED. Their families have been killed and they have nothing to lose! (if this terrorism b.s its actually true)


ANOTHER THING. I dont know where you get the IQ fact fron that is PURELY BS to tell you news in history. Europe would have NOT been Europe without the Arabs and Moors. This is were the so calle Renassance was from! They made the first libraries and universities rich with Mathematics, Astronomy, Art, Architecture and philosophies. They had an amazing economical system that did not screwd up anyone. Their system on taxes were the best! and what about Al-Andalus!? The BIGGEST AND MOST SUCCESSFUL EMPIRE IN THE WORLD!


[edit on 16-8-2010 by tolerantolerance]

[edit on 16-8-2010 by tolerantolerance]

reply to post by Acharya

It is interesting how the poster went from "The koran ... PLAINLY says, "lying to "outsiders", is fine" ANYTHING, to get their way, established- then- Sharia Law" to "according to the Quran it is okay to pretend you are not a muslim if your life is in danger". Where does it say that they are permitted to lie when the "well-being of Islam is threatened"?


I find it so hilarious that this thread has gone on for over 20 pages, with you basically saying "Yeah, muslims are worth less than us, they shouldn't be allowed to come over here". And also ranting against "socialists".




[edit on 17-8-2010 by babloyi]

more than one sorry... one wife.. lol

Originally posted by atlguy

Originally posted by Acharya

Why do you say I have not read the Quran?

Some quotes from the Quran that advocates seperation, violence, and war:

You really don't want to start on this track. I can tit-for-tat you with Bible verses that eclipse those from the Qur'an.

Really? From the New Testament? Or lets say from Jesus? There is a reason there is a New Testament. Jesus never spoke violence, he spoke forgiveness and turning the other cheek. I'm sorry the Catholic church bastardized it for a while. The Old Testament is pre-Christ. Did you know that? The point is Mohamed turned violent and didn't leave any door open for Islam to become peaceful. Jesus challenged the Jewish establishment and for that he was crucified. Remember the women caught in adultry. They wanted to stone her, he said let the man without sin cast the first stone. Nobody but Jesus could cast the stone. He said go and sin no more. He violated the law and rewrote it. Mohamed was a killer and was responsible for the murder of thousands. Jesus forgave. Big difference my friend. You think you hate Jesus but it's really man kind you have. Man is responsible for the blood shed, not Jesus. Mohamed was a sick person. He married little girls, and murdered many. If you read the Quran you would know this. But you haven't. I know you haven't because if you did you would not defend it. Nothing good can come from a book written by a person as evil as Muhamed. The religion of Islam in the modern day world is all the proof I need

reply to post by Acharya


I guess I am guilty of seeing things through the eyes of my country. Here they are the minority but not in the world at large. I am still steamed about the mosque at ground zero so that is where that comment came from.

Thanks for clarifying. It also does concern me that everywhere they are immigrating to is having huge problems. I have seen some scary things going on in England.

I was told this is an old Arab proverb.

Don't let the camel get his nose in the tent or soon he will be in the tent and you outside. Hmmm.