Do you believe the Roswell official explanation?

The "believers" keep missing the point about the Air Force revealing details of projects that happened years after 1947.

They were trying to provide support for the claim that some of the Roswell witnesses were confusing later events with the initial 1947 event. Confusing them with strange projects and military accidents that occurred near Roswell and may have been remember by certain witnesses.

Do I believe the Roswell official story? To which official story do you refer? There have been several retractions and addition that each make up their own official stories, as others in this thread have pointed out.

Do I believe it to be a secret project that accidentally came down over a field in Roswell, which is the consistency in most of the “Official Stories”? Yes, I do believe it was a secret project, but I do not believe it was a just a balloon. I have thought a craft of some type for a long time, but with no large chunks of mass being reported, it just does not add up. Because of the redirection of the “Official Story” over the years, it is really hard to know what actually was responsible for the debris field.

Even though the changing of the “Official Story”, muddies the waters of investigation into the actual goings on at Roswell, I do not think that is the major intent, the major intent I believe is to help keep the Alien/UFO sector alive with buzz, in order to help explain away black project aerial tests. Unfortunately for researchers into the Roswell debris field it makes it harder do drudge through the muck to find the truth.

reply to post by AlienCarnage


Good synopsis

And with that I'm out of this thread. Thanks and you all carry on.....

If it was a "secret project" of some technology from 1947 then why is it still a secret technology?

If that was the case we must not have made much progress since, but quite the contrary we have made HUGE leaps since. So that being said it does not jive with how the declassification of past technology's like stealth have been revealed. Usually it takes 10-20 years tops to reach the mainstream. This iswhy i do not see it being a black project. Then the witnesses to top it off. TPTB really have tried to make this go away for a 60 yo technology? Meh I dont think so.

Beings from another place is not that unbelievable imho

[edit on 31-8-2010 by theMegaladon]

reply to post by theMegaladon

TPTB really have tried to make this go away for a 60 yo technology?

Actually they have done the opposite of “make it go away “. What makes you believe they want to make this event go away, what better way to test top secret aircraft then to test them and have them reported as UFOs? It is a great cover up story with hardly any effort on their part other than once in a while come up with another bogus story as to what really happened. It creates plausible deniability, which is the way in which the military and the government, in the US at least, work.

The reason I don’t buy the alien craft is because there were no huge chunks of debris found, there was another crash site, but that one is another story also covered in a shroud of the same lies for the same reasons; that will keep us from ever learning about truth about it as well.

I have found a very interesting site about Roswell and what really happened there.
It was written by the now retired Colonel Philip Corso. His book is called "The day after Roswell"

www.bibliotecapleyades.net...
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here are all of the chapters.

The 1995 USAF report, all 1000 pages available here, does say that the Roswell debris went to Wright-Patterson AFB. That's an interesting point I'm not sure everyone is aware of.

The sudden emergence of the titanium industry within a little more than a year of the crash out of thin air is certainly curious. There are good reasons to think Roswell was an alien crash, but I can't say it's proved.

The way I see it, there are three possibilities....(as it is a fact that SOMETHING was recovered and the debris flown to at least Ft. Worth and Wright Field).

1) Project Mogul, just as the Air Force explanation states.
2) Some other, still unidentified craft of terrestrial origin, that is still a secret.
3) An alien craft

So, then we look at the evidence for/against each.

1) Witnesses describe a military cordon, and retrieval effort, and there are flights of the debris to the top foreign technology bases of the time. Seems odd, for something made of balsa wood and foil paper, and balloons. Not to mention, more odd that intelligence officers wouldn't have easily seen this. No previous (or later) Mogul flight had such actions taken. It was "off the shelf" parts...only the mission was classifed. They were often left in the desert to rot. Why the recovery effort if Mogul? (also, the bit about the "bodies" from Project High Dive....this project was 5 years AFTER the event....the Air Force would have done better to not even address it).

2) What terrestrial craft would STILL be secret over 50 years later? If a test craft, surely this would have been the official explanation over Mogul. Any test craft of that time would now be beyond obsolete. This explanation simply doesn't wash.

3) The official press release from the base was that they had recovered a flying disc. This is in sharp contrast to a Mogul recovery, even considering the RAWIN target reflector (which is far from "disc" like).... This explanation fits all of the behaviors of the military. The downside, is the witnesses are recounting an event decades ago (and some have even been outright out to make a buck).

There's evidence for both 1 and 3, but taken as a whole, for me personally, the evidence leans more towards 3, as the military's actions in 1 simply don't fit with the Mogul explanation.

EDIT: Corso. One must realize that even at Corso's own admission, his accounts of Roswell are second-hand at best. He only claims first-hand knowledge of handling the debris, and that it was explained to him as the origin (and that's a pretty grand claim). So, any of his retelling of the actual events must be taken as such...

an interesting debate here.....

www.debate.org...

Originally posted by mikelee
I have always wondered on both sides, what if? What if it really was some type of military testing/equipment falling to earth or, an actual alien craft with occupants? In my opinion, there is more evidence that takes one down the road of UFOs & aliens than the warm fuzzy confident feeling one gets when you just know the truth is what you just heard or read. My opinion though so who knows....

Do you believe that an alien craft crashed with it's occupants at Roswell?

Or,

Do you believe the official Air Force report?

Either way is cool and there shouldn't be any snipes or crap like that going on. I have just always wondered how many believe. In their own way.

I do not accept that an alien craft or any craft crashed near Roswell and there certainly were no occupants.

I do not accept the official Air Force report.

What I do accept is that what was found by "Mac" Brazel was debris from a secret project aimed at detecting Russian nuclear tests. There is more evidence for that scenario than for any concocted story about UFOs and bodies regardless of who says what. Every author pushing a UFO crash is just in it for the money and fame.

Since I began researching this a number of years ago I've come to believe that our forays into things atomic attracted ETL attention. Consider that Roswell, NM. is very near the Army Air Corps base from which the Enola Gay was dispatched on it's way to Japan. I have played "government" in the past, and have no doubts whatsoever with regards to their willingness and ability to obsuscate the truth. The debris in Mac Brazell's pasture may not have been that of an alien craft, but I am certain it was no weather balloon.

dagu2, open-minded and paranoid, believes that nothing is impossible

Do I believe the Military story?

I believe that Mac Brazel and family were terrorized by the U.S. military over an object(s) that he discovered, and that the site of the event was closer to Corona, NM -- possibly between Corona and Socorro.

Near the beginning of 1994, I walked some of that country and attempted to make contact with the surviving family....... they were, naturally, uninterested.

I don't know if aliens were aboard the craft, nor if it was in fact an alien craft, however I believe that something crashed or otherwise came down that the Military and U.S. government didn't know how to deal with, that was unknown to them as well.

Cutting to the chase, yes...... I am convinced there is a greater probability that something nonTerran happened there than a secret Military project.

reply to post by IgnoreTheFacts

I couldn't agree more. The sheer amount of things that clearly don't add up that one has to overlook in order to believe what they want to believe gives me great pause.

I finally agree with you on something ITF.

I don't think Roswell is a good case. I speculate what happened was that Project Mogul crashed. It was top secret at the time and they needed a cover story. The whole story of saucers and alien bodies did a great job of covering up Mogul for decades and has thrown ufology into chaos. With all the saucer sensation around 1947, someone thought they saw a saucer go down and it was initially reported that way. Obviously project Mogul was a pretty big deal. It was a huge object that would have left tons of debris and been very foreign looking to your average person then and now. I guarantee that no high level colonels were out there picking up debris. It was some of the younger staff and perhaps they started a joke/rumor of picking up alien wreckage and bodies.

I wouldn't put my money on Roswell.

I'm with the skeptical side for numerous reasons.

First off, if we assume (as it is widely) that the craft is alien, then that means it has to travel to our planet from somewhere. That requires some "bone" to whatever craft the aliens are using. Yet it manages to crash here, and even better, in a country that has good reason to lie to keep its secret military projects. Don't forget that the craft reported obviously has been seen (or others of its kind) flying all around the world seemingly without problems. Of course, it could have happened, but I find it un-believable.

Second, I find it contradicting that the material that was tested couldn't be scratched, yet debris were found over a very large area. The material was apparently very tough but light, yet no one has produced any of it? None of the numerous witnesses ever kept the tiniest piece? Or copied the symbols on the "I beam"? It certainly doesn't seem incredible to them. Incredible material, sure, but alien?

Thirdly, why the late reporting? It took almost 40 years to document any of it, and all we have are witness reports after-the-fact. We all know that memories can be shaky after some time. None seem to have been interested in telling the story just 10 years after the incident? And as long as they don't have proof, they can talk all they want about aliens and saucers, why bother "silencing" them?

Furthermore, there seems to be strong connections with the intelligence community when it comes to physical spacecraft and alien bodies, and reading some books, it doesn't seem too hard to get dates and biographies of everyone involved. Think about it; we almost know everything about the aliens except what they eat and how they recreate. If we even take the Majestic 12 documents to mind, it seems that just days after the crash the military has established that the alien craft does indeed "fly", that is, it has been categorized the same as airplanes. It seems they knew even how the aliens themselves thought when they built their craft...

Now, was it a balloon or something like it? Maybe. But as Jacques Vallee pointed out in Revelations; what would a trooper stationed at a nuclear missiles base do if he saw a flying saucer approach? Would he still follow orders? What if he saw a religious apparition? Would he shoot at his own belief? Maybe Roswell was indeed such a secret psychological test. Because what would you do if you found an unknown object? Reveal to the world your country's defenses, or would you stay loyal? How long would it take for you to do that? Would you be offered something from the enemies of your country? And so on.

I don't believe the Project Mogul explanation.

While there doesn't appear to be any direct evidence of a UFO crash, there is evidence the government is not telling the truth about its latest and final explanation. The fact that they are still lying about it raises a lot of red flags. What operation would be so secret that its secret today? Even if it were some other kind of advanced experimental government aircraft it would have been declassified by now. There are a number of holes in the Air Force's latest explanation. Also if Project Mogul was declassified in the 1970s, why didn't the Air Force say something back then? UFO researchers had been pressing for the military to explain what happened in Roswell all throughout the 1980s and you would think that they would have responded immediately since Project Mogul was already declassified. Instead the government stuck with the common weather balloon story. Mogul balloons crashed all the time and they even had an address on them to let civilians know where to return them. Project Mogul was a secret operation but the balloon material was not top secret. So why did the Army block off the area in 1947 over something that was suppose to be common? Then there is the Ramey Memo which is seen in a 1947 photo that talks about a "disk" and its "aviators" being forward to Ft Worth. Flight records showed that major top generals flew to Roswell around July 7th or 8th of 1947. Why would a common Mogul balloon that crashed all the time lead to top generals flying to Roswell shortly after the object crashed? Why was this "mogul debris" treated so special that it had to be flown to Ft Worth, TX with MULTIPLE planes with military personnel guarding it? What was so different about this "Mogul Balloon" crash case? When you look at the circumstances surrounding this crash event, a Mogul Balloon crashing makes no sense at all. Furthermore Major Jesse Marcel could identify a balloon even if its a balloon from a top secret mission. But major Marcel and others said the material was not from a balloon.

The Air Force explanation for the bodies were crash dummies. But crash dummies weren't dropped until 1953. When that was brought to their attention, The Air Force then responded by saying people with fading memories got two separate events mixed up...oh give me a break. Are you telling me ALL those witnesses had fading memories and got two events from separate times mixed up? I believe in the old saying where there is smoke there is fire and folks, we have a forest fire here.

I don't believe any aliens or alien craft was ever recovered. I believe most of the official report. They did not release all info but there was nothing extra-terrestial involved.

Read First....Nuclear Scientist talks about nuclear reactions creating super heavy stable elements used in space travel.


Bob Lazar story not only confirms zecharia sitchin but It might indirectly confirm story about U.S. Nuclear Scientist killed in Washington State.
It was posted yesterday regarding his death as suicide, However if you want to make scientific knowledge public, you might find yourself in a black box. U.S. Nuclear Scientist was killed by government agents in Washington State because he figured how to make super heavy stable elements through nuclear reaction such as.element 115. Back in 1947 near Roswell New Mexico, ETs monitoring nuclear testing for presence of super heavy elements. ETs were probably wondering if we put 2+2 together and figured out how to use nuclear reactions to create super heavy elements for space travel...Always take this info with grain salt, however, it might contain some disturbing facts about our government.

I've been watching documents and reading about the Roswell case since I was just a kid. I even wrote a report about it in middleschool. At first I was a hardcore believer in it all, but over the years, I guess I've become wiser, or more skeptical, or maybe the government's 'disinfo' got to me. I used to be amazed by the sensational claims of paper-thin metal that can't be dented with a sledgehammer or burned, metal no thicker than the foil wrapping around a Hershey's bar that will 'magically' unfold and can't be burned, and of course the (in)famous i-beams with 'hieroglyphics". But eventually I heard the skeptic's side. I heard the claims of project Mogul and the claims of exaggerations on the parts of the witnesses (I remember one document I watched said that Mac's initial description of the debris did support a Mogul balloon. It was said that the rancher initially described finding sticks, a shiny foil and dark plastic/rubber material. Whether this is true or not, I'm not sure. I've never seen the source). In some documents I've seen Jesse Marcel Jr. talk about the debris as if it were really something totally out of this world, and in others I've seen him say that he didn't see any of the alleged amazing properties of the debris and say that it didn't really look like anything that amazing, apart from the i-beams.

The Roswell Incident is right up there with Bigfoot and the moon landing hoax for me. Half the time I believe in it, the rest of the time I don't. It all comes down to those original claims about the debris. I have a hard time believing that an alien craft capable of traversing the galaxy would so easily crash and be blown to pieces (especially one that was supposed to be made of such indestructible material). I find it even more unlikely that two UFOs would actually collide (as some claim). At the same time, I would like to believe that our military officers weren't that oblivious or prone to overreaction.Announcing that the US military had recovered a crashed Flying Saucer, which was assumed to be an alien spacecraft, would have strategical advantages. Not only would it allow for a coverup of whatever real project crashed, but it would also be an amazing source of intimidation. If every other country in the world thinks you just got your hands on super-advanced alien tech, they're probably going to be reluctant to mess with you.

So I guess that, personally, I believe the Roswell incident may have been a mixture of both sides. I like to think that maybe, just maybe, an alien craft did come down. Perhaps an explosion occurred on board, blowing out part of the craft, raining some debris down on the ranch. The injured craft eventually makes a crash landing near San Augustine.It was reported that a large storm had blown through the previous night. Perhaps this storm blew the wreckage of a previously-downed Mogul balloon onto the ranch, so the debris field was actually a mixture of Mogul scrap and some pieces of an actual UFO. That's what I like to believe, anyway. Whether it's true or not, I don't know and probably never will. If Mogul isn't the real explanation, the government will never come out and say what it really was. They already lied once, but they were able to use the "Well, it was in the past and it was really necessary to cover it up" excuse, but now that they've come out in more recent times with a "final" explanation, they won't be able to admit that they lied again.

reply to post by Charizard


My opinion varies between total belief, total disbelief, and everything in the middle. I obviously believe something occurred in Roswell, something the military didn't want leaking out. I think we can confidently say the military lied and changed their story a number of times. I want to believe the first statement release by the PIO was the truth. It was unadulterated at that time. It was an expulsory statement. The common sense in me says, "Yeah, a probe probably crashed, no bodies, just hardware." To me, in my little part of the world, this is the most plausible explanation. Maybe it was probing the nuclear facilities at the 509? We have had a lot of sightings around nuclear ballistic facilities in the 50's & 60's.

I definitely do not believe it was a weather balloon. I don't believe it was part of Project Mogul either. So if it wasn't either of those, and it wasn't alien, what could have been top secret that it is still a secret today. It doesn't make sense. One conclusion might be that it was something secret, and of this world, not extrterrestrial. Maybe because the military lied so much and screwed it up so much and caused so much embarrassment, maybe they just want to forget it?

There is a lot of objective evidence that something crashed. We know that. We know that the officers involved with Roswell went on to have very successful careers, placed in very important and impressive positions. We know officers working on foreign technologies at Wright Field were involved. So, was it the Russians or Aliens?

reply to post by mikelee


I believe that NASA lost their kite and someone freaked out a little.