"We Muslims know the Ground Zero mosque is meant to be a deliberate provocation"

reply to post by sweetliberty


Hey, thanks.

All I am saying is can I please see one Islamic country building a Christian church, or welcoming Jesus into their community?

No, I cannot.

This is why I am warning you of a one-sided moving in - it is a well-known fact that countries which have lost wars then move in to the winning country.

So, what I am saying is - Islam keeps you out of their countries - keep them out of yours - alas - too late - and you, like Britain, are allowing them to move in and take over.

Originally posted by catwhoknows
OK, Muslims - here is a challenge.

Build a lot of Christian churches all over your lands.

That is exactly when I would build a mosque for you.

If you gonna revolve your society in regards to what other societies do, is just wrong.

If supposed Muslims nations doesn't allow Christians to live amongst them, are you gonna do the same>?

If suppose nations kill Christians, are you gonna kill Muslims living amongst you?

If supposed Muslim nations doesn't let Christians build Churches, are you gonna block the construction of Mosks>>?

That is idiotic the least, to copy the wrong choices of other people.

That is that

reply to post by catwhoknows


I see what you are saying and I hope we stay alert and aware to this too.
One the one hand, the mosque would be a symbol of victory to some, on the other hand it will be a symbol of diversity and tolerance, having the ability to see past the tragedy.

Personally I'm glad we are asking questions and being alert and aware, there is nothing wrong with that. What happened on September 11th, 2001 is nothing to sneeze at thats for sure.

Hopefully the Muslim American's will be patient and understanding. I feel it's not asking too much of them.
*correction*: I feel the majority of Muslim Americans are being patient and understanding. It's the other Americans who seem to be the one's full of crap and hatrid.


Thanks catwhoknows.

[edit on 12-8-2010 by sweetliberty]

Originally posted by catwhoknows
reply to post by sweetliberty

 

Hey, thanks.

All I am saying is can I please see one Islamic country building a Christian church, or welcoming Jesus into their community?

Why?

Why do you think any other country should be the way you want them to be? Should America become the way people in other countries think it should be?

This is why I am warning you of a one-sided moving in - it is a well-known fact that countries which have lost wars then move in to the winning country.

What war with America did Islam lose?

So, what I am saying is - Islam keeps you out of their countries - keep them out of yours - alas - too late - and you, like Britain, are allowing them to move in and take over.

What are they taking over?

Originally posted by sweetliberty

Originally posted by ~Lucidity
reply to post by MY2Commoncentsworth

 

You don't know him. You don't have to TRUST him. You don't MATTER. He doesn't have to answer to you because you say so. What a loon.

What matters is that the people in his community know and trust him. Civic and community leaders, religious leaders, the mayor and plenty of other people. The State Department trusts him. But hey yeah, you know better.

You probably can't even spell Manhattan

1. Demonize all you want.

2. Point your finger where you want.

3. Sit in the seat of the one who judges all you want.

4. Minimize where you want, maximize where you want too.

5. Turn your volume up and spend limitless hours proving your point.

6. Throw fits, call people names all you want.

7. The fact of the matter is you don't like it that this is more than a local issue.

8. Who are you to judge?

9. This is larger than you will admit to.

And yet again, sweetliberty derails a topic and takes it personal. No great shock here. Let me attempt to address this.

1. Where do I demonize anything? Examples please. I fight against demonization and racicalization of Americans and America and the people at war for your mind. If I'm demonizing them, good.

2. Where am I pointing fingers? At who? Examples. At the people at war for your minds, perhaps? The political opportunists and users? People willing to sacrifice our values and principles because they have an agenda or fall for it? If I want to point fingers at them I will. Sorry that annoys you.

3. Judging? Again...examples of me judging? Please don't confuse opinion and searching for facts or debate with "judging." And just what are you doing here? Judging perhaps?

4. Um...okay. Minimize or maximize what? This issue is larger than I will admit? What? Please see your own number 8.

5. Um...okay. Judging much? You stalking me? What are you saying here? lmao

5. Where have thrown "fits?" Called anyone a "name?" Examples please.

7. What I don't like is the damage this is doing and the preying on people's minds and the opportunists and the consequences this little campaign

And, yes, this center being in this community is a local issue. Doesn't matter if I "like it" or not. Or if you do.

8. Ummm. Reread what you wrote here and then ask yourself that question.

9. See your own number 4. And again, I fully realize how "large" this is.

You know, this is the umpteenth time you have done this random acccusations and perceptions thing. You get all scattershot and personal. And you can never cite a single examples or back it up.

I get the distinct sense that you're beating around some bush here and suspect I know exactly what that is. Too cowardly to say it?

Seriously? It's quite possible there's a severe reading comprehension problem here. That or you simply miss things. This is becoming very clear.

Check yourself. I will look forward to your examples. Then when I don't get them yet again? You're back on ignore. No great loss there.

Oh, and I can cite quite a few examples of you doing this exact thing. Here's one and there are many more screen shots of many, many others of yours that the mods removed.

Originally posted by ~Lucidity

Originally posted by sweetliberty
reply to post by ~Lucidity

 

You have about as many threads on here as NY has mosques, which is 90 plus mosques so why don't you allow us to discuss this, please go to your many homes Luc.

I'm sorry, but what does this have to do with the topic? My threads? My homes?

 

Anyway, can you enlighten us on the threat that is Cordoba or not? Per you contribution on page 1 of the topic.

[edit on 8/12/2010 by ~Lucidity]

reply to post by ~Lucidity


Heehee, no problem Luc. I must say you didn't quote everything I said though.
I will get back to you, rest assured, but know it will be in my own time since I have a life outside of ats and am not able to kick dead dogs.

You will be u2u'ed and if you see fit to post it, you have my approval.
Carry on please

sweetliberty

edit to add: I will still show proof regardless if you want it or not, that is your decision. You will not order me either way, sorry. And I wasn't beating around any bush, lol.



[edit on 12-8-2010 by sweetliberty]

Originally posted by sweetliberty
reply to post by ~Lucidity

 

Heehee, no problem Luc. I must say you didn't quote everything I said though.
I will get back to you, rest assured, but know it will be in my own time since I have a life outside of ats and am not able to kick dead dogs.

You will be u2u'ed and if you see fit to post it, you have my approval.
Carry on please

sweetliberty

And yet another veiled slam or two in your response. Well done.

I didn't quote the rest because there wasn't anything I was replying to there. I did not take a thing out of context in your off-topic, personal attack.

As for your examples? Don't bother. We both know there aren't any.

Welcome to ignore.


Back on topic, if the act of "fitna" that Raza and Fatah refer to means mischief making and is forbidden by the Qur'an, why would they assume the imam is doing this? Do they even know him? That's the thing about their statement that doesn't quite gel.

reply to post by oozyism

Originally posted by oozyism
Where ever MY2COMMON comes along, I expect hate, that is why he is in my ignore lists, I can't even see his posts, but can only see those who quoted him.

Ya right. So then how have you been able to follow me all over the board and post after me on other threads?......threads not even related to the moqsue issue.

You crack me up oozy, big time. By the way, what's a Mosk? Is it perfume?

Haters don't discuss, nor debate, they simply hate [full stop].

I certainly don't hate you oozy, you are a barrel of laughs.

[edit on 12-8-2010 by MY2Commoncentsworth]

reply to post by catwhoknows


It is a known fact that over 600 christian churches exists in Iran.

like i said,

build a 100mil happy community center mosque in the tribal area of pakistan!

let the iman tell them how nice we are!



let him preach the bridgebuilding stuff from there, where it will do the most good!

but i guess american muslims need this sort of thing more than plaino muslims in buttchomp nowheresville.

they can use the pool and hang in the restaurant and just lounge around.

sounds fab to me!

maybe i'll run tour busses around the 5 times a day for prayer?

hey people! check it out! get the camera's, take a pic with a real american muslim!

reply to post by ~Lucidity


The parallels in history are really quite amazing. In the Reichstag (German Parliament Building) fire in the 1930’s blamed on Jews and Communists the government of Germany was able as a result to get most Germans to become anti-Jewish and anti-Communist.

It wasn’t long before average Germans were willing to entertain actively persecuting Jews and Communists or to stand silent while those who were actively persecuting Jews and Communists did so.

History later displayed it was the Nazis themselves who burned the Reichstag and not the Jews and Communists.

Of course history didn’t unearth this until much later well after Germans whipped into frenzy by Nazi political manipulation and peer pressure had killed millions of Jews and communists.

Today with hardly exception we deplore Nazism and anti-Semitism and share a belief that it’s wrong to persecute a people for religious and ethnic reasons.

Or so many of us claim, yet the truth is right here in America these same dangerous Nazi like manipulations extolling people to hate, distrust and persecute an entire ethnicity and religion because of the untried and unproven alleged actions of a tiny few people who belong to that religion and ethnology has led far too many Americans that are now prepared to persecute, attempt to get others to persecute, and feel a ‘national’ and ‘religious’ obligation and pride in doing precisely what Nazi Thugs did 80 years ago.

Have we learned the lessons of World War II, the Holocaust, and our often tragically violent past?

It would appear not.

It’s rather funny that many people fear fascist government is developing in America and the people who do speak out against that the most (neoconservatives) are often the very same people who argue for persecuting others along unconstitutional religious and ethnic lines.

They know better, they tell us, just like the Nazi Leadership told the German people.

Today many people are split as to whether there is something intrinsically faulty with the German mindset that could have led them to do this, or whether it really is that easy to manipulate otherwise decent and caring people to become hateful monsters through the skilled use of propaganda and peer pressure.

I am here to tell you apparently it is that easy, because even Americans armed with the knowledge of what happened 80 years ago are still falling into that trap, where all of a sudden persecuting an entire religion and entire races of people becomes a virtue in their mind, and they extol it as a virtue to other Americans that they would like to join that club of bigots and haters.

These people will tell you ‘this is different’ the only thing different is it’s not the Jews this time but the Muslims.

It isn’t the Reichstag this time but the World Trade Centers.

It isn’t the Nazis this time but the neoconservatives and Zionists.

So what did we learn from the 60 million dead in World War II?

Evidently nothing.

What separates a too large percentage of Americans and Nazis? Evidently only an ocean because the tactics and the ideology are the same, rely on lies and half truth, and distortions to create an endless stream of propaganda, defame anyone unwilling to adopt a culture of hate, fear, and a unwillingness to persecute ‘enemies’ of the state, and push, push, push, for persecuting innocent men, women and children by stereotyping them all in slanderous and false ways.

I sometimes think a lot of people imagine this is not as gravely serious as it is, that it won’t work out the same as it has in the past. That the people doing the persecuting and lying won’t suffer for it as they have in the past. That history isn’t really being made by them and by all of us right now. That it will all catch up with them and us, and us all in the next life time.

I have written and warned people extensively on how religious texts will be used to divide them into an apocalyptic war as a means to create a one world government.

This really is what is happening right before our eyes, with many of the people neck deep in the provocation really imagining it isn’t what it is.

What it is, and it is the wholesale manipulation and transformation of a nation into a totalitarian society bent on uniting itself by selecting a designated common enemy to persecute.

The truth is that the Muslims many people are slandering in this thread are no different than the poor Jews who suffered the same in World War II.

The twisted and deliberately mistranslated words and quotes and actions of a few, and unproved allegations become enough to prompt people in mass to hate and persecute those innocents that are painted by a broad propaganda brush.

Anyone who wants to know how the Holocaust really happened need only look at America and to this Thread for the answers.



[edit on 12/8/10 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]

wrong thread dude,


holocaust has nothing to do with the topic.

Originally posted by fooks
wrong thread dude,


holocaust has nothing to do with the topic.

Clearly I have displayed it does, that the tie-ins and similarities are too many and too important and too real to ignore.

This is how the Holocaust started, and I could well imagine why the people promoting the politics of hate and fear would not want anyone pointing out the obvious and very real simialarities.

I am counting on the American people being more determined to stick to their constitutional principles than the Germans were, and not to allow themselves to be turned in mass into an unthinking easy to manipulate mob full of misplaced hate and murderous rage instilled in them by haters, and zealots looking for power and control and selling it as 'security'.

If you think this doesn't have anything to do with back then, and this is not happening again, you better grab a history book, and get some mirror time in friend.

Originally posted by fooks
wrong thread dude,


holocaust has nothing to do with the topic.

You might need a visual aide:

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/a4292f300386.jpg[/atsimg]

Above are German Children in 1938 reading a book called “Magic Mushroom” which explained to them all the bad things about the “Jews” why they shouldn’t be trusted, how they destroyed Germany’s economy, how they plotted against the German people, how they make and peddle pornography and dilute German Values, how they are enemies of the State.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/9f7bd2552e6e.jpg[/atsimg]

Above are Jewish children about the same age, separated from their parents, being deported to a labor camp because they are evil bankers and communists and porno pushing degenerates that have the ‘wrong’ values, they are kids too, just kids who had the misfortune of being born innocently onto the side suffering from persecution based on lies and distortions.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/794dec8365cd.jpg[/atsimg]

Above are Afghani Children displaced by war, care to gander a guess which one of these suffering little tikes flew the planes on 9-11. Perhaps you would like to pretend their parents dead from NATO bombing runs were involved?
That these rural deeply religious and simple people in Afghanistan were tied in with 19 alleged Saudi Arabian hijackers?

German Children, Jewish Children, Afghani Children all pawns and victims of the hateful and prejudiced biased infected minds of others.

All suffering in some way shape or form the twisted ideology of people who would rather murder and kill and dominate through might makes right, than find peace through a morally honest sincere dialogue.

You know people you can lie to yourselves. Good luck explaining those lies to the children affected by all this later.

They will know better, and as History proved to the Germans, history will ultimately hold ALL to account.

Not just the little innocent children who suffer the most for the ignorance of the 'mature and grownup."

[edit on 12/8/10 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

The parallels are alarmingly close, as are the methods. This is one of the levels I too see and am concerned with. The other is the actual tactics being used to influence opinion and garner support.

This is but one wedge issue, yet already we see it spreading in directions that we knew it would spread in as people grasp only what they want to hear of the issue and run with that.

On the surface, this is an emotional issue for many. But just look at the many tangential reasons are now coming out of the woodwork to throw in or garner support...it shows daily in the comments we hear and read everywhere. Religious jihadists. Islam is evil. Deport the Muslims. Anger. Rage. Protests against more mosques.

Never thinking about the impression this is giving off or seeing the unintended but predictable consequences. There's a lot of cognitive dissonance going on too, which just frustrates people more. The monster's been unleashed.

Maybe this is why very few attempt to answer the questions I and many others pose repeatedly. What do you want done? What do you want to happen? Where do you see this going? How do you see this ending? It must be too uncomfortable to correlate or think about.

So you're right...many people don't take this lesson from history, among others, and see the dangers. Maybe because they never learned them. Or maybe because they just don't care and can overlook things just as long as their little piece of the agenda gets satisfied.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
You might need a visual aid:

So what are you implying Proto? What is indicated by your sequence of snapshots?........that the United States is going to start marching Afghani children into the gas chambers?

If you hate the US so much, why don't you move to Afghanistan, or Iran, or Turkey?

lol, still don't mean squat to the thread topic.

nice try, tho.


i hate be a broken record like all the rest here but


build the $100mill, 13story, community happy mosque somewhere that it would do the most good!


why do americans need the bridge? lol, build it where they have a problem with americans!

doesn't that make more sense?! lol.

or they can build 100, $1mil mosques, probably same size with the monetary conversion!


or do you think americans have more of a problem with islam than islam has with americans.

yes, i say americans, not america.

Originally posted by MY2Commoncentsworth
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

 

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
You might need a visual aid:

So what are you implying Proto? What is indicated by your sequence of snapshots?........that the United States is going to start marching Afghani children into the gas chambers?

If you hate the US so much, why don't you move to Afghanistan, or Iran, or Turkey?

If you were unable to learn anything from the above posts, which you obviously haven’t, then you simply don’t want to learn.

I am not implying anything. I am stating facts.

The holocaust did not start with Gas Chambers, the holocaust started with turning the hearts and minds of the average German against the Jews.

Long before any Jew was deported there was the Crystal Night in which Synagogues and Jewish Shops had their windows smashed and were looted and burned.

What is it you want to close again? A Synagogue oops I mean a Mosque? Why because they belong to Judaism, oops I mean Islam?

Why because they burnt down the Reichstag oops I mean the World Trade Centers.

Why because the have Talmudic, oops I mean Sharia values?

Why because the Nazi Parliament oops I mean the U.S. Congress conducted an ‘official inquiry’ instead of a German Court, oops I mean an American Court of Law?

It’s not about not liking America friend, it’s about not understanding why some people choose bigotry, and hate, and want to persecute others, in the guise that this somehow makes them superior than the people they hate for allegedly being the same.

It’s about the children who ultimately suffer for the dysfunction of the adults, it’s about the quality of life that becomes diminished for us all when people are more prone to hate, than more prone to love.

I am not implying anything, I am coming right out and saying point blank if you want to hold an entire religion and race responsible for the unproven and untried actions of less than two dozen people then that makes people who think and act that way no different than Nazis.

Clear enough for you yet?

I know it is.

someone drop you on your head?

or were you in the american gas chamber too long.


let's talk about the here and now.

Originally posted by fooks
someone drop you on your head?

or were you in the american gas chamber too long.


let's talk about the here and now.

Here is what you do, get on the topic and realize the parallels are in fact topical and insightful or hit that alert key and good luck trying to get the staff to agree the posts are off topic.

The tie-ins to the propaganda campaign some are waging against Muslims are stark and myriad and should be looked at.

This is ATS where we deny ignorance and search for higher truths.

You might want to stick with Ask Yedda.

People need to know there are obvious conclusions that wholesale persecution leads to. Ask the blacks in the Deep South that are old enough to have lived in Pre-Civil Rights America, ask the Gays who are old enough to remember when they could expect to be taken out back and beaten for looking the wrong way or saying the wrong thing, ask the Jews who are old enough to have survived the early days, the middle days and the late days of Nazi Germany.

They will explain it to you, why is it you are afraid of the truth on this one.

That hating and persecuting an entire religion and race is identical to being a Nazi.