"We Muslims know the Ground Zero mosque is meant to be a deliberate provocation"

reply to post by intrepid

Originally posted by intrepid
Whoa, sorta puts things in a different perspective, doesn't it.

I disagree. Like I said, he says one thing to one group, then turns around and says something different to the other.

Some of his close supporters are saying that he does this so he can negotiate with the Radicals in the Middle East.

You can't negotiate with terrorists. If anyone should know this, it should be him, no?

I don't trust this guy, he hasn't given me the slightest indication of why I should.......Even his close supporters have to be pressured and asked a half a dozen times before they will answer a simple question with a straight answer.

edited to add.....

In 2009, Rauf took up this theme again, writing: “Religious freedom is at the core of Islam.”

Religious freedom is not at the core of Islam in a theocracy,.....which is their endgame, by their own admissions.

[edit on 11-8-2010 by MY2Commoncentsworth]

reply to post by MY2Commoncentsworth


You don't know him. You don't have to TRUST him. You don't MATTER. He doesn't have to answer to you because you say so. What a loon.

What matters is that the people in his community know and trust him. Civic and community leaders, religious leaders, the mayor and plenty of other people. The State Department trusts him. But hey yeah, you know better. You probably can't even spell Manhattan

When they revert to name calling and insults, don't even bother to reply.

If that's all they have, they don't have a leg to stand on, and we are wasting our time by responding.

edited to add....check out Hannity tonight, you will see a deer caught in the headlights.

[edit on 11-8-2010 by MY2Commoncentsworth]

blind faith
trust

yeah look how well those have worked out for some.....

the blind faith in presidents,religious,celebrities,sportsman

granted these names have no relevance in this thread but heres a list of blind faith and trust individuals put into others....

bill clinton
gwb
michael jackson
oj simpson
any pedophile priest
tiger woods
etc..........the list goes on

even mr bradley manning who took an oath to honor and defend his country people trusted and had faith in

even bendict arnold was a trusted name and people had faith in

even japan was trusted and people had faith in.

the rosenbergs were trusted and people had faith in.

even mr osama bin laden was a trusted name to america at one time and the us had faith in him

even mr saddam hussein was a trusted name in american and had faith in him

lucidity is right we dont matter and i hope we never find out who was right and wrong here in this thread......

but someday we may find out........i honestly hope we never do

[edit on 11-8-2010 by neo96]

Originally posted by Equinox99
I thought many people here supported the constitutional rights of EVERYONE in the country. Why is it that many people only cry when the government is intruding on their constitutional right, yet you don't mind that this will invade their rights.

Kind of ironic isn't it?

Well yeah lol. See this is really the way it works. Most of the right only care about The Constitution when they may have to pay more taxes, when they may have to register their firearm, and when they think they can force everyone into a lifestyle that meets their approval.

Beyond those conditions they only care about it when they have something to gain from it. Which oddly enough they walk around acting like their stuff doesn't stink. Sadly they like to call themselves Christian, yet balk when asked to help those less fortunate than them, refuse to practice any type of forgiveness or tolerance, think it is ok to run around the world decimating other nations into oblivion with little to no reason.

The Republican Party actively recruits these people under the guise of family values, yet they have none. How can you be the "Christian Party" when you do everything the absolute opposite of what a Christians values should be. Show no concern for the lower classes problems, continually defend the top 2% of the population. Love to throw stones at those living an alternative lifestyle, yet when the facts come up they themselves have made marriage a joke stare at you blankly.

reply to post by MY2Commoncentsworth


See? This is why one needs to read and think. Not think and read into sources things that aren't there. Your source was pro-USA. He even said that "WE" Americans are responsible for provocation against the Muslim world. He's right. Many non-Muslim Americans admit the same. Why should we discount it when he says it? Because he's a Muslim?

A real American could care less what anyone outside this country views this mosque as. A real American would know the truth, that we embrace diversity it is what has made us a global powerhouse. A real American would welcome this mosque and visit it, and actually interact with the people inside it. A real American would find a way to start building bridges.

The terrorists love to use the "US is at war with Islam and will not rest until it is destroyed" as an recruiting statement and by protesting this all you are doing is proving it is true. So what if its a few blocks from the Trade Center? It is long past time to quit picking at those wounds and using them as an excuse for every intolerant inexcusable thing we do.

The price of a free society is security is exploitable. The terrorists have conned this country into acting against its own moral fiber. To abandoned the things we hold dearest. No amount of security will ever stop the lone determined gunman ever, it may delay it but it will never ever prevent it.

Let them build it and then use it, engage the occupants. That is what an American would do.

Originally posted by ken10
It seems to me that Islam is being vilified a lot lately, Are we sure this is not a set up to turn the Christian world against Islam.?

Its clearly a provocation...........But set up by WHO ?

No, I don't think the World Health Organization is behind this.

Perhaps some in the U.N., but not WHO

reply to post by Mikey Sly


That's funny as hell man.

Jovi, that is the finest post I have seen here in memory. Well said.

reply to post by intrepid

Originally posted by intrepid
See? This is why one needs to read and think. Not think and read into sources things that aren't there. Your source was pro-USA. He even said that "WE" Americans are responsible for provocation against the Muslim world. He's right. Many non-Muslim Americans admit the same. Why should we discount it when he says it? Because he's a Muslim?

I still disagree. I Believe that I have stated my concerns. I do not believe that America has intentionally provoked any nation in recent history.

Sure, some of our policies have caused turmoil in the past, especially in the Middle East and in Viet Nam and Cambodia. But we are a nation that tries hard to learn from, and correct those mistakes.

We're not perfect by a damn sight, but no nation is. I like to think of us as the best of the worst.

The same people who believe that we intentionally provoked the Muslim World, are the same ones who still hate George Bush. But they support Barrack Obama, even though he continues the policies of Bush when he clearly could have disengaged. These people are political partisans who have blinded themselves to the truth.

I have a general distrust of Government when it comes to domestic issues. The $13 trillion debt is high on my list, as well as the progressive takeover of the Democratic party, the continued erosion of our civil rights, the flood of illegals streaming across our southern border, and the fact that less than 50% of the population is now paying federal income taxes to support the rest of the populace while government continues to massively expand.

It's unsustainable.

Originally posted by ~Lucidity
reply to post by MY2Commoncentsworth

 

You don't know him. You don't have to TRUST him. You don't MATTER. He doesn't have to answer to you because you say so. What a loon.

What matters is that the people in his community know and trust him. Civic and community leaders, religious leaders, the mayor and plenty of other people. The State Department trusts him. But hey yeah, you know better.

You probably can't even spell Manhattan

Demonize all you want. Point your finger where you want. Sit in the seat of the one who judges all you want. Minimize where you want, maximize where you want too. Turn your volume up and spend limitless hours proving your point. Throw fits, call people names all you want. The fact of the matter is you don't like it that this is more than a local issue. Who are you to judge? This is larger than you will admit to.
The fact of the matter is without understanding, love and patience and communication, no one can heal even in the slightest with all the finger pointing and judgmental self righteous, Im right and you're wrong, their wrong, he's wrong, she's wrong naggers who are more of the problem then the solution.

Guys ... it's actually quite simple politics ..

Reason the American politicians ok'ed the building of a mosque in ground zero is to:

1) Portray a good image of upholding freedom of religion in this great country of ours .. this will pacify some percentage of the population ... and they will not have broken any constitutional laws by allowing it ..

2) To make sure the blood of Americans keeps boiling at 100 degrees celsius with anger and hatred for muslims ... this is essential for support .. they still have many wars to wage on the muslim world .. for this they will need continued support from the rest of the population ...

Whoever came up with this one has to be a master mind ..
real politics at play here fellas ... hats off to whoever thought this one up ...

reply to post by legalizeit


I hope it's not "hatrid and anger" for Muslims, I don't think it's hatrid for Muslims, just extremists. We have those here, even on ats, lol, (extremists).
I would think more that it's proof many need to talk about this. Even now, people are trying to shut people up who don't understand and who are in pain.

I wouldn't be surprised if the government creates something to distract the people, a crisis or something.

Originally posted by MY2Commoncentsworth
Sure, some of our policies have caused turmoil in the past, especially in the Middle East and in Viet Nam and Cambodia. But we are a nation that tries hard to learn from, and correct those mistakes.

Are you up on current events? Learned from Viet Nam? Ask a Viet Nam vet about the fronts in Afghanistan and Iraq. He'll set you straight.

The same people who believe that we intentionally provoked the Muslim World, are the same ones who still hate George Bush. But they support Barrack Obama, even though he continues the policies of Bush when he clearly could have disengaged. These people are political partisans who have blinded themselves to the truth.

Oh don't even go there. That partisan crap doesn't play in this thread.

reply to post by sweetliberty


thats what michelles trip to spain was but it didnt work

reply to post by legalizeit

Originally posted by legalizeit
Whoever came up with this one has to be a master mind ..
real politics at play here fellas ... hats off to whoever thought this one up ...

Try, Osama Bin Ladin, and Al Queda.

[edit on 11-8-2010 by MY2Commoncentsworth]

reply to post by intrepid

Originally posted by intrepid
Are you up on current events? Learned from Viet Nam? Ask a Viet Nam vet about the fronts in Afghanistan and Iraq. He'll set you straight.

I don't know how you would know any Viet Nam vets living in Canada. Maybe some old draft dodgers are still hanging out up there, I don't know.

Oh don't even go there. That partisan crap doesn't play in this thread.

It's easy to cop out like that. Partisan politics is at the root of this problem.

Originally posted by MY2Commoncentsworth
reply to post by legalizeit

 

Originally posted by legalizeit
Whoever came up with this one has to be a master mind ..
real politics at play here fellas ... hats off to whoever thought this one up ...

Try, Osama Bin Ladin, and Al Queda.

[edit on 11-8-2010 by MY2Commoncentsworth]

Nope ... you got it all wrong ... Al Queda and OBL are insignificant in all this .. scape goats .. used to scare weak minded people and little kids ... it's the biggest mind f*&^& since religion ... OBL has just been made out to be a poster boy for the now house hold term 'terrorism' .. these guys don't even have toilet paper to wipe their own a**&S .. yet alone plan such things ... think about it ..
Its all politics brother .. mixed with a game of chess ...

Originally posted by sweetliberty
reply to post by legalizeit

 

I hope it's not "hatrid and anger" for Muslims, I don't think it's hatrid for Muslims, just extremists. We have those here, even on ats, lol, (extremists).
I would think more that it's proof many need to talk about this. Even now, people are trying to shut people up who don't understand and who are in pain.

I wouldn't be surprised if the government creates something to distract the people, a crisis or something.

I see your point and would like to agree with it in principle .. however, the reality on the ground is that laws are made for common folk ... not the powerful ..
At our level, yes .. we can make that distinction that only extremists are targeted with hatred and anger ... but to achieve their goals, the big boys club makes no distinction ..
Just look at what is happening in Iraq and Afghanistan .. everyone is between the cross-hairs .. fair and square .. anyone moves .. and the trigger is pulled ...
Thats how an overall objective is attained ...politically that is ...
And sorry to say ... no amount of talking on threads or TV will solve anything .. because laws never apply to the decision makers ...
how ironic right ..?

reply to post by legalizeit

Originally posted by legalizeit
Nope ... you got it all wrong ... Al Queda and OBL are insignificant in all this .. scape goats .. used to scare weak minded people and little kids ... it's the biggest mind f*&^& since religion ... OBL has just been made out to be a poster boy for the now house hold term 'terrorism' .. these guys don't even have toilet paper to wipe their own a**&S .. yet alone plan such things ... think about it ..
Its all politics brother .. mixed with a game of chess ...

And who would want to scare people and Why? I don't believe that God is a mind ...k. Bin Laden is the poster boy for terrorism, and he makes a good avatar too.

And he has plenty of toilet paper, since he comes from one of the richest families in Saudi, and he was educated in the West.

So what's the endgame?