All of you against drug decriminalization have the blood of 28,000 people on your hands

I want to thank everyone with their truthfull accounts that can be very private but extremly eye opening for people who are closed in and who do not have a clue.

Thank you to the paramedic, people confirming that legality issues stem far deeper than just the old school idea that marijuanna kills and you grow hair on the back of your hands.

and changetheworld what can i say

people need to hear them words out loud and clear.

I should record them, take my soundsystem to the parliment and play them non-stop projecting the words all over their building

Hey lets talk about the big one people.
That little green plant ATS does not like to talk about.
I don't care what any of you bible thumping red necks think, or what you have seen in your life.
MARIJUANA does not ruin lives. Well with the exception of those arrested for it.
Around where I live, I would imagine like 1 in 3 adults indulge the plant, most daily.
Come on people!
How many of you growing up, found out your parents or someone else parents smoked a little reefer? You were shocked right?
Because people like my self, Go day to day enjoying a plant, that is one of the most remarkable natural phenomenon's on the planet.
To all those directly against.
Next time you have the flu, or a really bad head ache, take a puff or two. It will help trust me.
I use, so what? Shoot me? Oh I know some of you would like to.
Im going to leave with this statement.
ANY OF YOU WHO LOBBY AGAINST DRUGS, SHOULD NEVER TOUCH A DRINK, CIGARETTE, ADVIL, MORPHENE AND ANYTHING ELSE MIND ALTERING OR PAIN RELIEVING.
FOR YOU HATE DRUGS!!!!
and you can't hate farm animals and own a pig, if you get what i mean.

I just about a week ago buried a good friend. A guy I knew for about 15 years.

He was murdered because some greedy bastard, with no education or care for life wanted to steal his marijuana.

Originally posted by tribaltrip
Hey lets talk about the big one people.
That little green plant ATS does not like to talk about.
I don't care what any of you bible thumping red necks think, or what you have seen in your life.
MARIJUANA does not ruin lives. Well with the exception of those arrested for it.
Around where I live, I would imagine like 1 in 3 adults indulge the plant, most daily.
Come on people!
How many of you growing up, found out your parents or someone else parents smoked a little reefer? You were shocked right?
Because people like my self, Go day to day enjoying a plant, that is one of the most remarkable natural phenomenon's on the planet.
To all those directly against.
Next time you have the flu, or a really bad head ache, take a puff or two. It will help trust me.
I use, so what? Shoot me? Oh I know some of you would like to.
Im going to leave with this statement.
ANY OF YOU WHO LOBBY AGAINST DRUGS, SHOULD NEVER TOUCH A DRINK, CIGARETTE, ADVIL, MORPHENE AND ANYTHING ELSE MIND ALTERING OR PAIN RELIEVING.
FOR YOU HATE DRUGS!!!!
and you can't hate farm animals and own a pig, if you get what i mean.

I'm loving this.

If it is bible bashing people that have a problem with it, im going to blow your mind!!
One summers enjoying a herbal relief with a strict greek orthodox priest, he summed it up quite well i think
"its god plant, for us to use as we wish"

i see a couple of stupid answers. wouldn't even vote to legalize pot? that's funny, because it's going to happen. california is going to legalize and tax marijuana for consenting adults to use, and they are gonna make millions if not billions in tax revenue. the other states which are hurting financially are going to see this and soon follow suit. to sit there and say i'll never vote to legalize drugs is hilarious to me. if you feel so strongly about drugs why don't you seem to care about the pharm companies who flood our streets with dangerous prescription drugs. how about the alcohol companies who push booze on us constantly. are you saying marijuana is worse than alcohol? if you think so you are probably retarded, maybe functionally retarded but still nonetheless devoid of all rational thought in your small disease ridden brain. it is a fact that prohibition doesn't work. it is a fact that it only benefits the criminal elements of society. if you are for drug prohibition, you are against our rights as free citizens of the united states. when it comes down to it the federal government has absolutely no business saying what i can and cannot do in my home. it is NONE OF THEIR BUSINESS. the federal government needs to stop meddling in our lives.

[edit on 5-8-2010 by 2weird2live2rare2die]

I know this following link is a little dated (1994) I believe it still is pretty accurate. The chart is from the Aug 2, 1994 New York Times article "Is Nicotine Addictive? It Depends on Whose Criteria You Use."




Each substance was ranked between 0 and 6 in dependence, withdrawal, tolerance, reinforcement, and intoxication. Reinforcement meant the ability for the substance to get users to take it again and again.
To give you an idea of how marijuana ranked, it ranked below the addictive qualities of caffeine. It only ranked higher than caffeine in intoxication and reinforcement in which it got a 2.
Alcohol on the other hand, took a 6 in withdrawal symptoms and intoxication. This gives us a fairly solid idea on where marijuana stands in terms of being addicting. Much of it is a mind over matter thing when it comes to a person becoming addicted to marijuana. The person using marijuana does not feel the heavy withdrawal symptoms when abstaining from use; it is much more a self control issue than a drug drawing you back into its' clutches.

Addictive Properties of Popular Drugs

reply to post by ThaLoccster


People get killed for money, but having money is not illegal. (sorry, not to downplay the death of your friend, I am sorry for your loss)

This group is made of of LAW ENFORCEMENT who want to end the prohibition:

Law Enforcement Against Prohibition

1. LEAP does not promote the use of drugs and is deeply concerned about the extent of drug abuse worldwide. LEAP is also deeply concerned with the destructive impact of violent drug gangs and cartels everywhere in the world. Neither problem is remedied by the current policy of drug prohibition. Indeed, drug abuse and gang violence flourish in a drug prohibition environment, just as they did during alcohol prohibition.

I think this is a very responsible way to go about this. Supporting the legalization of drugs does not mean you think everyone should use it. It is a personal choice and for some people, it might be a stupid one and, yes, they can abuse it. But society is already dealing with the side effects of illegalization ON TOP OF having to deal with the addiction and drug-related crime. The latter two will ALWAYS be present whether drugs are illegal or not.

reply to post by fizliz


Exactly. Marijuana addiction is psychological (mind) rather than physiological (body). There is a big difference. Many users of marijuana may crave it if they have not had it but it is more of a want to get high not a need to get high. There mind is just saying "hey, I'd like to be high" whereas with other drugs and even alcohol, their body is saying "I NEED to get high or I'm going to have some bad times".

Marijuana users don't get nausea, DT's, vomiting, shaking, chills, and hallucinations, when they discontinue use. Edit to add: in fact, marijuana can alleviate all of these symptoms!


[edit on 5-8-2010 by nunya13]

(Totally wrong interpretation, sorry)

[edit on 5-8-2010 by gandhi]

Reply to post by Vitchilo

shame on you for you judgmental lack of knowledge. there are more factors involved than your emotional and frankly stupid OP. how about- if you ever had a good thought about the CIA you should be circumcised since they rule the world's drug trade.........US made enough opium money to build DC and to fund the Revo War.........this country was built on drugs- quit weeping and do something about your feelings. therapy would be my suggestion........but don't take any pills they offer you!


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

Originally posted by nunya13
This group is made of of LAW ENFORCEMENT who want to end the prohibition:

Law Enforcement Against Prohibition

1. LEAP does not promote the use of drugs and is deeply concerned about the extent of drug abuse worldwide. LEAP is also deeply concerned with the destructive impact of violent drug gangs and cartels everywhere in the world. Neither problem is remedied by the current policy of drug prohibition. Indeed, drug abuse and gang violence flourish in a drug prohibition environment, just as they did during alcohol prohibition.

I think this is a very responsible way to go about this. Supporting the legalization of drugs does not mean you think everyone should use it. It is a personal choice and for some people, it might be a stupid one and, yes, they can abuse it. But society is already dealing with the side effects of illegalization ON TOP OF having to deal with the addiction and drug-related crime. The latter two will ALWAYS be present whether drugs are illegal or not.

Great post.

Many police officers are against prohibition because they know it creates violence and does not help any drug problems.

reply to post by Vitchilo


I don't have a problem with decriminalization as long as they put the money they spend now into treatment programs.

I do have a problem with how you presented this. The old guilt trip ploy is not reasonable by any stretch.

I can't help but wonder if you have ignored the deaths due to drug abuse, the marriages and families destroyed and the toll on society? Drug addicts don't work, they cant. They use every entitlement the system has to offer, at a far larger scale than other segments of the population.

Drugs and Alcohol almost always play a role in spouse abuse and child abuse. They also play a role in crime in general. Even if legal, they will still be expensive and the same people will still be stealing to support their habits.

If your going to use the guilt card and place blame you can't ignore those things. You are also assuming that organized crime will suddenly become law abiding citizens and not simply find other criminal activities to engage in.

Don't you think this topic has been beat to death? Same conversation over and over and over again?

Me, I was smart enough to quit those things young, many years ago. However more than a few of my friends died as a direct result of drugs. Five I can think of off the top of my head. They committed slow suicide. Nobody else caused their deaths but themselves. If I add the people I know who's marriages and careers were ruined, I run out of fingers and toes.

What is going on in Mexico is far deeper than drugs. Drugs just happens to be money generator. What is happening there is that people who would normally be in prison in most Western societies, are running free and in charge of things. That only happens when a people allow it to happen. It's self inflicted. If the majority of people in Mexico stood up to the corruption, it would cease to exist.

Mexico tries to play the same disingenuous game your playing by blaming it all on American users. If no drugs existed, the bad guys would still be the same.


Never using drugs=Smart
Using drugs=Stupid

That bit of math never changes and will always be true.

reply to post by Blaine91555


I tend to agree with your post, but with what metric would they be expensive?

Many of them can be produced for like 1$ per dose. Some a fraction of this, the most expensive ones maybe 5$

And i talk about retail price, after tax.

I see a real need for drug education. It seems many think that alcohol is less harmful than pot. Yes, oppressing the harmless drug user has put more than blood on the hands of the good people who have made these archaic laws. Just think the the families who have had to endure a loved one being locked up and having his or her life ruined by the goverment. Much more harm has come from this silly war than all the overdoses ever.

Originally posted by Blaine91555
Never using drugs=Smart
Using drugs=Stupid

I'm sorry but this is too simple.

Everything is a drug.

People can be addicted to television or even exercising.

People can abuse salt, sugar, or even caffeine.

The problem is not any particular substance or activity but the mental issue that creates dependence and over use.

The solution to these issues is education, treatment, and information.

Originally posted by Blanca Rose
reply to post by Vitchilo

 

Nope, not a believer.

It depends what drugs you are talking about.

I have known people who have had drug addictions for years. A couple of them offed themselves because of it. Are you counting them in your tally?

While people themselves make lousy descisions, to become addicts, that cost their own lives, if it wasn't made available, by way of drug lords, to begin with, they might have never made the choice to succumb.

Legalization might be approved by some people, not by me, and what I have seen and witnessed.

I will never go for the leagalization of any drug, and that includes, pot.

No way.............never!~

You actually make the case for decriminalization. I know it is terrible what addiction does to people however the fact that they do it DESPITE LAWS criminalizing it show how ineffective the laws are. Criminalizing it makes it highly profitable for drug lords thereby providing insentive to increasing the production and distribution of it. Just Like Prohibition facilitated the mafia. Al Capone actually thanked the us government for passing the Halstead act and giving them the opportunity to become so rich and powerful.

decriminalization would take the profit out of it and make it less available. Heroin and coc aine used to be available at the local drug store back in the 20's. We had addicts then too but not near the amount per capita as we do now since it has all been criminalized and there are huge profits in it. If Peter pothead can grow it in the back yard or Carl Cokehead can buy for 5 or ten an ounce like in Peru there is no incentive to smuggle it in and all the mayhem that goes along with it.

Addicts will be addicts regardless of the laws. Laws against it have never made it unavailable they always make it more prevalent by making it highly profitable. decriminalizing will not have any effect on the number of addicts As Amsterdam and other places have proven it actually make the number go down.

Lastly it is now ten years into the 21st century why are we still arresting and persecuting people for plants they grow or substances they choose to put in thier bodies? For god sake we are arresting and jailing people for a certain type of plant they are growing in their backyard??? How ridiculous is that? If that helped the amount of addicts would have gone down by now but it has steadily increased since drug prohibition has been in acted.

If people are not harming anyone then there is no crime. If they harm someone then there is a crime it doesn't matter if they are under the influence of drugs or not. What they put into thier own body is thier business not yours and mine. Now go have a glass of wine and relax... Oh wait that is a drug too but it's legal...

Originally posted by Blanca Rose
reply to post by Tayesin

 

I hope so, because if drugs are legalized and I am inconvenienced or in an accident because they are, I will be infuriated!

One can only imagine the additional costs that insurance will tack on, if even pot is legalized.

People would like to see these things decriminalized, and so, but don't look at the whole picture.

You can bet insurance rates will go up, if decriminilzation is ever allowed.

Again you illustrate the illusion that criminalization prevents you from being inconvenienced because it supposedly prevents someone from using drugs that might be the reason you are inconvenienced. Well I got news for you DRUGS ARE LEGAL starting with alcohol and hundreds probably thousands of over the counter and prescription drugs. So will you not complain if a drunk driver inconveniences you because that drug is legal? My wife was rear ended by a grandmother on about ten different prescription LEGAL DRUGS so how did drug laws help her out?

And of course criminalization is irrelevant in stopping some addicts from inconveniencing you. Hence the illusion that decriminalization would suddenly change things in that area.

The only drugs that are illegal are those that don't make big profits for the politically connected drug companies. But the blow back is they are highly profitable for the drug Lords and cartels who are not afraid to use violence to protect thier markets.


[edit on 5-8-2010 by hawkiye]

Originally posted by endisnighe
There is NO crime if there is no VICTIM.

Debate over.

Morals cannot be legislated against.

EXACTLY!

If you INFRINGE on another's right to Life, Liberty and Property, THAT is a CRIME.

again, EXACTLY.

Show of hands, do you believe your body is your own? Or is it the government's property? If you believe it is yours, you cannot be for criminalization of a substance. Otherwise you are saying that society or government owns your body.

i own both my body and my soul and am willing to be accountable for same, and hold no other souls accountable or responsible in any way, shape, or form, from now until the end of my soul.

end of statement.

Originally posted by Blaine91555

Never using drugs=Smart
Using drugs=Stupid

That bit of math never changes and will always be true.

So my disabled sister is stupid for using drugs to prolong her miserable life.

So my father is stupid for using drugs to control his diabetes.

So my grandmother is stupid for using drugs to control her blood pressure.

Drugs are drugs are drugs. Now THAT math will never change and always be true.

[edit on 5-8-2010 by hotbakedtater]