Told by police that being outside at night is probable cause to pull me over and question/weapons ch

Cops must have a reasonable suspicion that a person is involved in some criminal act before they can detain us. Period. Being out at night is NOT, repeat NOT cause to believe a crime is afoot.

Unless there are other factors, such as fleeing upon seeing the cop, or a furtive gesture such as throwing something away, then the cop cannot legally stop and question a citizen.

Cops of course lie, and say that they can do anything they want, but all it takes is a lawyer to pursue a complaint. Cops should be treated as the enemy, and regarded as deserving constant watching. If a cop stops you, by al means carry a paper and pen or camera cell phone...or at least a voice activated tape recorder, which in a pocket can provide evidence of the cops lie and abuses.

If you are stopped for doing nothing but exercizing your rights, then give your name and identity, and then clam up and ask if you are being detained...if the cop says NO leave and file a complaint later for the illegal stop. If he detains you in an effort to insist on interrogating you, simply refuse and remain silent except to ask if you are being detained. The cops will either arrest you falsely and face the consequences or let you go.

Most times they will go away, aware that you know your rights and likley have a lawyer waiting to sue...that scares a cop like nothing else...the thought of standing in a court and facing a jury or judge, being sued, is something cops hate. YOU MUST file complaints anytime a cop crosses the line and interferes with your rights, and if it is serious enough to upset you then file a lawsuit. Many times they will settle rather than face the court and you will win.

In this day and age we should all be filming and recording as many cops as possible and suing any that give us any reason to do so.

After reading the posts, this is what I would do if I were you, before you proceed on a course of action that you may or may not be prepared for.
The first thing that you would want to know is what is the crime index for the area that you are living in. This is public information, the police and insurance companies can provide such for you.
Now then I would double check on all of the laws of the state, county and city, to ensure you are following all of the laws.
Now if the police stops you, cooperate, do not get nasty or rude. Ask them if there is anything wrong. If they want to see your ID, give it to them. If they ask you any questions then politely state the following: I am invoking my right to remain silent and request that an attorny be present before I answer any and all questions you may ask. I will cooperate with your requests, but do not consent to any searches of myself or any packages that I am carrying.
Then remain quiet and say nothing. By stating that it puts this into a new level that the cops will either have to arrange to have you arrested, and therefore prove that you are guilty of a crime or will have to let you go. If they write you a ticket, review it, if it does not check out with the law, then go to court and offer a counter suit against the police department. Sometimes the most peaceful communities have a high crime rate and thus the police have to stop and talk to everyone. Also watch the area as well, see if the police are stopping everyone as well or not at all. If they are not stopping everyone, then you start to have proof that they could be acting in a manor that is possibly discriminatory in nature.

I suggest you carry copies of the online document stating that is is legal to ride the bike on the sidewalk in your area. Be sure to use a good legal source. Show this to the cops next time they tell you they stopped you for riding on the sidewalk. If they arrest you for talking back to them or disobeying the order not to ride on the sidewalk, then you can take them to court and the cleaners.

LEO are far from understanding the law to the degree of a real law professional , ie an Attorney at Law.

Their simple minded perception of the law only works to their advantage in order to make more arrests which translates inevitably to more dollars in their paycheck. Unfortunately.

So point one is to not to simply believe their "interpretation" of the law because they are armed.

They are not law professionals. But hired gunmen only to enforce laws dictated upon Free Americans used primarily to generate revenue.

They bank on our ignorance,

The key is knowledge of the law.

This is the only way in which we can protect and maintain our Constitutional Rights and Freedoms is to be vigilant in our understanding of the UCC or Uniform Commercial Code of Law.

And the one word which empowers them if your allow them is called "Jurisdiction".

They in essence have no Jurisdiction over you for....

For since you are NOT operating a commercial vehicle, under commercial purposes, you have the right to travel freely. Hence , why a Drivers License is not necessary to travel foot or by bicycle.
YET.

This is the basis of what Jean Paul was referring to in the questions pertaining to detention/detainment.
Thumbs Up Jean Paul !!


Let Us Deny Ignorance, for Knowledge is Power.





[edit on 4-8-2010 by nh_ee]

[edit on 4-8-2010 by nh_ee]

Originally posted by Jean Paul Zodeaux
Is the same Boondock writing this, that I have come to know and love?

aaaahhhhh
ain't that sweet

Jean I didn't know you cared
about me that much

and btw, I'm not being sarcastic

reply to post by sremmos


I want to believe you but can't since you offer no proof. Perhaps next time you can carry a video camera and record the cops saying that to you and post it. Considering you were asked three times in a week makes it seem you are prone to cops.

Originally posted by dawnstar
keep riding your bike, when they stop you, strike up a conversation with them, mention that you usually ride you bike to the store after you get out of work at that time....
eventually, they might get so that they see ya, know ya, know what you are doing, and well.....leave ya alone.....

That's what i did when i used to walk my dog, when i got off work at 2am. After a couple of weeks I was on a first name basis with a few of them and they would ask if all was well in the neighborhood.

Originally posted by richierich
In this day and age we should all be filming and recording as many cops as possible and suing any that give us any reason to do so.

I do agree with this
however, one gentleman just got convicted
for video-taping an officer who stopped him
and may face up to 16 yrs in prison for
posting it on youtube.

www.time.com...

reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux


Change legal behavior? Didn't they teach you about wearing dark colors at nite? That in and of itself is a safety issue. Ever have some jerk riding a bike at nite wearing dark colors pass in front of you? I sense a little something amiss w/the op's story.

Originally posted by nh_ee
in order to make more arrests which translates inevitably to
more dollars in their paycheck. Unfortunately.

this is a fallacy !!!
cops DO NOT get bonuses for more arrests.
At least the ones I know in NC do not.

Are there bad cops out there ??? Sure as with any profession.
But to stereotype them all based on
an assumption that money is an incentive
to harass people is pure biased non-sense.

Originally posted by boondock-saint

Originally posted by richierich
In this day and age we should all be filming and recording as many cops as possible and suing any that give us any reason to do so.

I do agree with this
however, one gentleman just got convicted
for video-taping an officer who stopped him
and may face up to 16 yrs in prison for
posting it on youtube.

www.time.com...

You did not read the article thoroughly....he has NOT been convicted. it is a charge, and will be thrown out, either at the first level or on appeal. Cops have NO expectations of privacy while acting in public and they are misapplying the law, as usual. it does NOT mean anyone will be convicted or get any time.

I predict that the charge will be dismissed at trial, and the ACLU will never sit back and allow someone to get a felony conviction for merely doing the same thing cops do all day long....they have recorders and cameras and no qualms about filming us....and there is NO provision under the law that makes cops a special class with special rights to do what we cannot.

All this is is a case of cops fighting tooth and nail to protect their ability to lie, coerce, intimidate, assault or kill under color of law without being documented. Any cop that resists being recorded and filmed while on duty is guilty and has something to hide...they obviously want to be able to operate without witnesses, and only criminals think that way, whether or not they carry a badge.

There has never been a major conviction for simply filming or recording a cop in public....the expectation of privacy is the key...and cops cannot expect privacy while out on the streets..and to want it is the sure sign of a bad deal and trouble afoot...cops who hate cameras and audio recording are devious, criminally oriented abusers of the law and public, who want NO PROOF of their crimes.

ALL citizens should carry cameras and record cops as much as possible, and challenge the dirty devils to try and stop ytou...then SUE THE SCUM in Federal court for violating your rights. Cops are underhanded, egotistical bullies who of course want the rules to favor them, as all innate cowards do.

I just wanted to say that I walk at night on a fairly regular basis. I work nights so being out at 2 am is fairly normal for me. I usually walk my dogs about 3 times a week late at night, its just way too hot to do it here in Arizona when I wake up.

I have only ever had the police even talk to me one time, and that was because there was someone lighting off some sort of firework that they were looking for, they wanted to know if I had heard it and if it sounded like a gunshot or fireworks and if I knew which direction it was coming from. I told them it was definitely not a gunshot as I saw the pyrotechnics, the general direction I saw them in and they went on their way. This was at about 1 am on a weekday.

I actually would have no problem with a cop coming up to me when I was out late at night, as it is a little odd. So long as they're polite and just come and talk to you, whats wrong with that? Now, if they come up to you and ask for ID right away, that I have a problem with and I would not show it to them unless they had a good reason for it other than being out late at night.

reply to post by richierich

ur right he was charged
not convicted. I read it wrong. sorry

I say we get rid of cops altogether. I can protect myself with my guns. Don't need anyone else doing that for me, and think they're so superior just because they possess the same weapons.

Originally posted by Crimson_King
reply to post by sremmos

 

I want to believe you but can't since you offer no proof. Perhaps next time you can carry a video camera and record the cops saying that to you and post it. Considering you were asked three times in a week makes it seem you are prone to cops.

Honorable discharge from the Marines.
No criminal record whatsoever.
White.
Early 20s.
Riding a bike at 10 pm on a private community lake (not gated) where biking on the sidewalk is constant day and night except after the lake's curfew. I have NEVER seen someone get pulled over for riding their bicycle on the sidewalk, let alone on the lake where you are encouraged to do it.

All three times I got pulled over I was not cited or otherwise penalized anything but my time and dignity.

I will take pictures and show you guys where I got pulled over and next time I get pulled over I will video record it. I am confident it will happen again since it's already happened so much in such a short period.

I have called the non emergency police line and gotten the number to my mayor, assistant of the mayor, and the city manager.

The non emergency line said they would have a deputy contact me, I am waiting for the call.

I don't expect people to believe me on an online forum without proof. I've stated that all the officers were very polite (not abusive beyond the act of actually stopping me, questioning/ID/weapons checking me. I am trying to fix this regardless of whether or not I am believed, though from my experience I am very surprised that only a few others have had this problem.

I feel like I am more of a target to police because I am in a worse state of poverty than most people (transportation is a bicycle instead of a car). I don't believe that it is humane to have to be wealthy enough to buy a car in order to get messed with by police less often.

reply to post by Pimpish


Two years ago before my town became a "City" I could say the same thing.

Boondock Saints, know that I respect your view even though I disagree with it. Thanks for your contributions to the thread, you have presented something other than what I wanted to hear and I can only grow from it. I still disagree with you, of course.

Anyway maybe when this deputy calls me and I explain that it seems like the officers patrolling my area are unfamiliar with bicycle laws and making stops on their flawed understanding of those laws they will have a meeting about it. It's entirely possible that these cops used to patrol the big city in my county before my town became a city (we use that city's sheriff as our local police, so the police that patrolled when we were a town are gone and have been replaced. I think this is a big part of the issue is that they are used to patrolling ghetto streets in bad areas of that bigger city.

Originally posted by sremmos
reply to post by boondock-saint

 

Can you explain, Boondock Saint? I was not committing any road violations whatsoever, was up to code as far as bicycles go and was riding home with bags of food at a reasonable speed in a well lit area on a sidewalk that was not the public road sidewalk, but instead, private property of the lake that I was riding by as I got pulled over (it is a separate sidewalk closer to the lake, and it was not past the lakes curfew).

Unless you are suggesting that I should actually believe my rights can be 'suspended' when I am pulled over, which I don't think you are.

If you live by a lake in California you are in one of the rich areas.
Poor folks ride bikes at 10pm.
And how do you expect the cops to catch the bad guys without profiling?
Should they be equally suspicious of an 85 year old lady driving a Bentley as you? That would be stupid.
Profiling is a POLITICALLY INCORRECT term for thinking.
The real problem is TOO MANY LAWS against "victimless crimes" which create crimes that really dont exist.

Bad laws make Bad Legal Theory.

Originally posted by np6888
I say we get rid of cops altogether. I can protect myself with my guns. Don't need anyone else doing that for me, and think they're so superior just because they possess the same weapons.

If we legalized drugs,gambling and prostitution we could get rid of 3/4 of the prison industrial complex,cops,judges,prosecutors,etc.

Here's the best advice I can give you:

Don't ask for advice about the police on a conspiracy site. That's like asking for a medical diagnosis here. You're just asking for trouble. After a quick read through of this thread, about half of the suggestions will do nothing but cause you more grief and you need to ask yourself if it's really worth it.

You want to know why they keep stopping you at night while you're coming home with groceries? Call the police station and ask them just be nice about it. For all you know there's been a few break-ins lately and the suspect rides a bike.

Just got a call from a deputy and we talked and this was said:

"I did some research before going ahead and calling you and I couldn't find anything about riding your bicycle on the sidewalk being illegal except for if you lay it down in the sidewalk and obstruct traffic on the sidewalk."

and

"I wouldn't worry about it"

also told me that "I ride my bike a lot too and honestly if I'm out past ten I use the sidewalk, if someone actually ever tries to ticket for you tell them that you were riding on the sidewalk because you don't want to get hit by a car."

This deputy agreed with me, told me that he wasn't 100% that it was legal but said he could find nothing in the penal code to suggest it was and that he does it too.

Anyway, I'm hoping it gets mentioned at the water cooler and then the cops will not pull me over any more, haha.