Told by police that being outside at night is probable cause to pull me over and question/weapons ch

Originally posted by sremmos
I have been pulled over three times in the past week by my local police department for riding my bicycle to the gas station after I finish work (usually after 10 pm).

Someone you know has "informed" the police that you are conducting illegal activities. That's how it works. They aren't random stops.

But as for your rights, they are on some very shaky ground and if they "detain" you without due reason, there is grounds for a civil suit against the department. Talk to a lawyer.

Dude, go to Hertzville Tasie-Oh Dooughnuts, and try to bribe.

Don't be the next fold of dough.

Seriously, a gift card from the Particular scenic doughnut shop might be interpreted as a "bribe", but then again, it might not.

Good luck too you.

Everyone knows that cops are after the fact. They always have been. Their presence has never prevented crime. If they arrive before the fact then it's you their after, period. To even converse with police at any time for any reason is pure stupidity. Don't talk to police. Zip it . Make them do their job, but i guess if you want to be helpful, then go ahead and talk to them. See where it lands you. I guarantee you get that nice little orange jumpsuit. Mister
www.youtube.com...

Originally posted by Mister1k
Everyone knows that cops are after the fact. They always have been. Their presence has never prevented crime. If they arrive before the fact then it's you their after, period. To even converse with police at any time for any reason is pure stupidity. Don't talk to police. Zip it . Make them do their job, but i guess if you want to be helpful, then go ahead and talk to them. See where it lands you. I guarantee you get that nice little orange jumpsuit. Mister
www.youtube.com...

I've spoken to police plenty of times and they've been very friendly.

I've also been stopped when walking home at night or jogging and asked where I'm going, and I've had some of my film confiscated when I was recording at the train station.

Some are jerks, some aren't. I've found its best just to be friendly regardless. Police react to those who are uncomfortble around them or have an obivous aversion to them - normally by assuming they're hiding something. It's just their way.

You CANNOT be compelled to provide evidence against yourself, EVER.

The ONLY thing you have to do when confronted by a LEO is give your name. Period. Could compelling a citizen to provide a Driver's license or some other form of ID be considered compelling a person to provide evidence? I have not been able to find anything to suggest it, but I believe this to be true.

You have no moral, or lawful reason to provide a LEO with anything but your name.

see Watts v Indiana Justice Jackson

When confronted by a LEO, I will provide my name and no further information for now on. It is my duty as an informed citizen. If a police officer wants to threaten you with some charge, have the moral fortitude to stand behind your convictions. If a LEO wants to charge you with a crime, so be it. If they act under color of law, you can sue them personally. You can sue the department if they have policy that makes the LEOs act under the color of law. Know your rights as citizens, you are NOT a serf.

I am going to repost a video that someone earlier posted. VERY INFORMATIVE.

Remember, in a court of law, if evidence is presented and the evidence is not challenged, the evidence is accepted as the truth. Same goes when talking with a LEO.

Anything you say and do CAN and WILL be used against you in a court of law. PERIOD.

JPZ nails it again. Way to go!

reply to post by endisnighe


I think the cops in your town should just give you a regular daily beat down on the basis of "for good of the community".

But joking aside, your approach may be technically correct. But the A-hole you are screwing with has a gun and a tazer and a helluva lot more backup than you can deal with.

[edit on 8/5/2010 by whatukno]

reply to post by whatukno


No, do not screw with them, only state that you cannot by reasons laid out by such people as supreme court justice Robert Jackson, it behooves me to remain silent.

Watch that video posted. Both a law professor and a LEO back up my assertions. It is never good to talk to a LEO without assistance of council, PERIOD.

So, anytime an officer of the color of law engages me, I will give them my name and then ask for assistance of council. Nothing more nothing less.

It is my right as a citizen of the Republic of Wisconsin, in the unincorporated united States of America. I am not a corporation, I am not a person, I am a human being. A flesh and blood human with inalienable rights to be free of encumbrances foisted upon me, by a corporation gone wild.

reply to post by endisnighe


Actually that is right, if questioned by the police you do have the absolute right to council.

And the cops can hold you for what is it, 48 hours without charge?

Just saying, you can be a dick, or, you can be polite. Be a dick, they hold you for 48 hours while your lawyer drains your bank account. Or, be polite, deal with the cops for whatever bull crap reason for 15 minutes before they let you go.

Gee, what would I choose? 48 hours in a jail cell, my lawyer getting paid for nothing, or 15 minutes of routine questioning, knowing I have done nothing wrong.

Originally posted by pirhanna

Someone you know has "informed" the police that you are conducting illegal activities. That's how it works. They aren't random stops.

Seems unlikely.
Random stops in certain areas occur quite often.

I doubt they would stake this guys house out and follow him around over a simple accusation unless it was something major, and why make him aware of their efforts by randomly stopping and searching him on more than one occasion?

What's more likely is that they are more concerned about that particular area and those that frequent it. Although it may be wrong and unnecessary I bet it really isn't personal.

This has happened to me before during my "night walks" through the city.

I was told that I was stopped and questioned for exhibiting "suspicious behavior".

By that they meant walking around certain areas of the city at night.

- Lee

Some of you guys just dont get it. Contrary to what you think you can do when stopped by Law Enforcement, you really do need to learn how the law is applied. What happens on the street by Law Enforcement, and what happens in court are 2 completely seperate areas. Law Enforcement does not work for the Judicial branch. Our sole purpose is to protect society.

Refusing to give information outright can land you in trouble. If we are asking you questions without handcuffing or mirandizing you, chances are its a followup to something else.

If you are "detained" and the officer begins to ask you guilt seeking questions, you need to be Mirandized. It is entirely possible to make an arrest, charge and convict without ever mirandizing someone. Custody + guilt seeking questions = Miranda.


You guys can cite all the court cases you want. In the end, pointing this out to an Officer will most likely do absolutely no good.

Again, I urge some of you to excersize common sense and quit with the conspiracy that the entire system is out to get you. But hey, if you really want to go down the road you guys constantly describe, all I can say s you better have a good lawyer.

reply to post by Xcathdra

Again, I urge some of you to excersize common sense and quit with the conspiracy that the entire system is out to get you. But hey, if you really want to go down the road you guys constantly describe, all I can say s you better have a good lawyer.

I would urge you to exercise common sense as well, and if you detain someone simply because you have some vague suspicion that person is up to no good, this is not probable cause, and you are not "protecting society" by doing such a thing, you are simply satisfying your own suspicions and using a badge and a gun to do it.

Ignorance of the law is no excuse, and as more people wake up to that fact and begin learning the law, more people will come to know the jurisdictional boundaries of a police officer, and those boundaries clearly exist. If you think it is prudent to keep going down the road of assuming you have the authority to obstruct justice and illegally detain people simply to satisfy your own bias, all I can say is you better have a good lawyer.

Where do some of you guys live?

What's wrong with taking 2 minutes to cooperate so the officer can move on to concentrate on something more important? I happen to like living in an area where the police will be proactive. I've been stopped a time or three, and it was always a short and polite exchange. I've never known an officer who was out harassing innocents just for sport, which is why I asked the above question.

I'd prefer they do the occasional spot check for security rather than sit at the corner 24 hour coffee shop and wait for a call.

When you change the way you look at things, the things you look at change.

I'm not prejudging, I'm just frankly surprised that this many people go into every encounter with law enforcement as adversarial. I must be really lucky to live where I do.

Yop even in Canada... they always do the same think.. just to scare the population deprive them from there right... i got kick in the head once.

I talk to Psychic Deductives that try and raize the Dead. Seriously, it's no scam. They get the vibes, and dancy.

There I's (Eyes) tell more than THEY'LL ever state: For the Record

Originally posted by Pinke

Originally posted by Mister1k
Everyone knows that cops are after the fact. They always have been. Their presence has never prevented crime. If they arrive before the fact then it's you their after, period. To even converse with police at any time for any reason is pure stupidity. Don't talk to police. Zip it . Make them do their job, but i guess if you want to be helpful, then go ahead and talk to them. See where it lands you. I guarantee you get that nice little orange jumpsuit. Mister
www.youtube.com...

I've spoken to police plenty of times and they've been very friendly.

I've also been stopped when walking home at night or jogging and asked where I'm going, and I've had some of my film confiscated when I was recording at the train station.

Some are jerks, some aren't. I've found its best just to be friendly regardless. Police react to those who are uncomfortble around them or have an obivous aversion to them - normally by assuming they're hiding something. It's just their way.

don't be worried about just being stopped

In North Korea your Basically not allowed to go outside at night



you will soon be questioned "Papers Please" its only a Matter of time !

well thank god for the Patriot Act , Right ? oops I mean the McCarren Act Update AKA.. The Internal Security Act of 1950
Basically the Wording Communist is replaced with Terrorist

Soon when they will consider that your a possible Terrorist suspect they will throw you in a place that is much like in the movie Called Punishment Park.. (1971) in which this movie is based on the McCarren Act in Full Swing
Punishment Park






Papers please 1-2



The Real ID ACT
Your Papers, Please: What the Real ID Act Means for New York
www.youtube.com...

so is this a Reality ? a Deny Ignorance kind of thing ?

but where i live looks can be deceiving , Amass boarder patrols & State Trooper checkpoints constant police stops at night Especially Quota Week , just a little over 100 miles from where im from Vermont , The Government threats of a land take over on a Farm for Home land Security even tho Canada is not even a threat! not like Mexico

here are some source of the Vermont Farm take Over
NPR
Vermont Farm Takes On Border Fight With U.S.
www.npr.org...

AgWeek
US backs off plan to take Vermont farm for border port
www.agweek.com...

Vermont Public Radio
www.vpr.net...

Is Homeland Security Scare (Terrorist) is the new Red Scare...

When i see this Happening as i never seen This in the 80s or 90s
and more now then ever it kinda hard to not believe in some Independent
Conspiracy Medias News ,websites when the same stuff they say as you seen as a reality in your County



[edit on 5-8-2010 by Wolfenz]

[edit on 5-8-2010 by Wolfenz]

To the people saying they're just doing their job, I'll just leave this here.. What you do with it is up to you..

I still think dude is sugar coating, for later reference. Out there up to no good, and WILL make another bad move; and, continue to resist.

Whereupon, force will be used.

It's obvious he atleast whines, possibly for a reason.

reply to post by sremmos


It is not illegal for the police to do that.



More crime at night=more stops at night.

Bet you dont get stopped riding to the store in daylight do you.

Look at it from the police point of view.

They have to prevent crimes, so they are active during the best time to do this.

If they were fishermen, you would expect then to be out on the water when the fish are biting.

Originally posted by Jean Paul Zodeaux
reply to post by Xcathdra

 

Again, I urge some of you to excersize common sense and quit with the conspiracy that the entire system is out to get you. But hey, if you really want to go down the road you guys constantly describe, all I can say s you better have a good lawyer.

I would urge you to exercise common sense as well, and if you detain someone simply because you have some vague suspicion that person is up to no good, this is not probable cause, and you are not "protecting society" by doing such a thing, you are simply satisfying your own suspicions and using a badge and a gun to do it.

Ignorance of the law is no excuse, and as more people wake up to that fact and begin learning the law, more people will come to know the jurisdictional boundaries of a police officer, and those boundaries clearly exist. If you think it is prudent to keep going down the road of assuming you have the authority to obstruct justice and illegally detain people simply to satisfy your own bias, all I can say is you better have a good lawyer.

Ignorance of how the system works is a problem. I dont have to have probable cause to stop someone. Check the following:

Reasonable Suspicion
Probable Cause


If I am patrolling a neighborhood in my city where we have had a lot of break ins at night, and I come cross a suspicious vehicle I have grounds in my state to stop the vehicle and check on it. The articulation is a suspicous vehilce in a high crime area that is not pulling into any house to park. Did they break the law for me to stop them - Nope.

If you can clarify Jurisidictional boundries also - That can be taken several different ways so I am not sure how you are interpreting that. In most states, Officers can take action outside of their jurisdiction if a Crime is comitted in their presence. In my state, with my certification, I have arrest authority state wide. I jsut have to submit my P.C. statement to the P.A. in whatever jurisdiction I am in.

Are there officers out there who abuse their authority? There sure is, as with any profession you are bound to have people who should not be in that job. As far as your statment about getting a lawyer for stopping someone without probable cause, I would suggest you learn the differences between Probable cause and reasonable suspicion.

With this being said, and as I have posted in other topics, I have no issue with people holding Law Enforcement accountable. Just excersize common sense, actually take some time to learn how the law works, and how its is applied by the Executive and how it is resolved by the Judicial branch.

Please excersize common sense.

Originally posted by vasaga
To the people saying they're just doing their job, I'll just leave this here.. What you do with it is up to you..

Ughh.. While I appriciate the sentiment of the video, I take exception to it. Law Enforcement Officers take an oath to protect and preserve the constitution of the United States, as well as the Constituion of the State they work in.

I am not cmoing for anyone, whether it be communist, capiatalist or what have you.

Here is a thought though, so take it for what it is worth. People need to stop complaining abuut what the Police do. We do not make any laws, we just enforce the ones that "you" have elected to represent your intrests have created. If you do not like a particular law, then take part in the process and have the law changed.

Only you have the ability to effect change with our Government here in the US. Get out and Vote - quit being apathetic followed up with thigs will never change, so why try. Complaining with no action taken is nothing more than complaining - Do something about it. The majority of the cities, counties and state governments, as well as the Federal Government have process in place for citizens to create bills / laws with a sponsor.

"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed people can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has."
-- Margaret Mead


[edit on 6-8-2010 by Xcathdra]