To all female ATS members, who support the ways of the middle east.

reply to post by whatukno


No, my guess is that he/she is trying to drum up support for the war in Iraq and Afghanistan by trying to play to women on ATS. He/she seems to be trying to sell us on the idea that we should be over there spending trillions of dollars and sacrificing American, Iraqi and Afghan lives to try and bring feminism to that part of the world.

Apparently, our killing of Saddam, who was a religious moderate, and under whose regime women were being educated and treated fairly well, (if not by his sick and twisted sons) was somehow intended to help the women there. Much like our early support of the Taliban did.

Lets not forget, our "help" in those regions has been instrumental in creating the environment they have today, with religious extremism being so viable. Many of those countries were well on their way to becoming fully modern and relatively well educated countries with a respectable amount of gender equity before we started meddling in the first place.

One of the most extreme nations in terms of gender inequality, (Saudi Arabia) is directly under our protection.

The wars down there have nothing to do with human rights. Female or otherwise. This nation will support any regime that allows their friends in business to rape and pillage the resources of those nations. Our leaders could care less about what happens to the women, children, or men in those countries.

And I seriously doubt such an amateurish attempt to play the "womens rights" card in support of US warmongering is going to work on ATS.

reply to post by whatukno


Did you even read the post? Or get the point of the post? Women are being forced into slavery around this planet. I just wanted to address those that apperntly suport this. Though if I was to take your avatar as an indicator. I would assume you were a man. Do you believe that women are second class citizens? Or is it just based on the section of the world? Keep figting for your cause. I'll keep fighting you.

reply to post by dreamwalker74


While I agree women's rights in the Middle East are questionable I query your motive for the thread. Have you direct experiences of living in the Middle East?

reply to post by Illusionsaregrander


Jesus, are you serious? I am very against both wars. I am simply outraged that the countries who treat their women as slaves, litterally, could be supported by women who are not. This country is sick with a lack of empathy.

reply to post by Illusionsaregrander


That makes sense in a really twisted weird way.

The war sucks, people don't like it anymore, people don't want our troops over there anymore.

Our OP here want's this war, so he wants to drum up reasons for us to be in that war.

reply to post by LarryLove


I have had several friends, and several run-ins with the middle east. I could give a rat's a$$ about the wars. I am simply pointing out the fact that women are litterally treated worse than slaves in many countries around this planet, Primarily the middle-east. Yet, it is extremely rare to hear a female voice speaking out against it. Take my words for what they are. This is my primary problem with the region. Being a man, you should perhaps applaud me for my efforts, VS. tearing me down, out of suspicion, and in the long run, leaving the women of the middle-east to fend for themselves.

reply to post by dreamwalker74


Dear dreamwalker74

Here is a link to the web about the film

www.imdb.com...

Because of obvious insanity the character that George Clooney plays ends up falling in love with this terrible woman.

You want to support the Muslim male watch the film.

reply to post by dreamwalker74

Did you even read the post? Or get the point of the post? Women are being forced into slavery around this planet.

Yes they are, and not just in Muslim countries either.

I just wanted to address those that apperntly suport this.

Who would support that? Someone can support a person's right to believe any religion they want and not support what you are talking about.

Though if I was to take your avatar as an indicator. I would assume you were a man. Do you believe that women are second class citizens?

Yes I am a man, and for the record, I think that most everyone is equally worthless.

Or is it just based on the section of the world? Keep figting for your cause. I'll keep fighting you.

As your premise that this is just an Islamic flaw, and not a worldwide problem, Yes I do disagree with you.

I think I understand where the OP might be coming from.
I see who might be female posters here who seem to over look the treatment of females and children in other countries. They seem to imagine it doesn't exist when they post our freedoms and rights here in this country and that when non citizens and citizens of other beliefs (such as women and children as objects or less than) they posters go out of their way to defend their rights.
Trust me, if they spent some time in some other countries, they would have a change of mind and heart.

They choose to believe the words and blindly miss what goes on behind closed doors.
Do the people from some countries who come here to take what they can care about the women who support their rights? NOPE.
They could care less and would just as soon piss on their grave as they would anyone elses.

reply to post by dreamwalker74


My fellow women of the world I have no control over. The same way I have no control over the women in my own country. Not the lives they live, what they wear, or what religion they follow.

Some men get drunk and beat their wives nightly. And some women choose to be in such a situation. Should we wage wars over it?

I starred and flagged this thread, and am 100% behind women throughout the world being free from tyranny, and oppression and inequality, and all genders being free from religions merged with governments, instead of high standards of equality, freedom and human rights, with spiritual beliefs, if any, a private matter.

How to change things is another matter? I don't support war in any way shape or form. I would set up world wide, networks for rescuing all the women and children and any decent peaceful men who apply, so they could be relocated. I would put money into people not bankers pockets. And this would be widely known and propagated throughout all the areas.

And give people choices, so that they could leave. And have it down with the highest technology, perhaps some of the tr3bs and ufo technology they have. Perfect rescues.

If those men didn't get any women to abuse and control, I wonder how long it would take until they cleaned up their acts.

I've been asking under the stars for this for a long time.

Originally posted by dreamwalker74
reply to post by LostNemesis

 

Way to support your fellow women of the world.

I just wanted to say......


Supporting women is waging wars on them?

That's funny to me, that you feel this way.

Those who blame "religion" for this might also be discounting cultural factors and just plain insanity. It's not as if abuse of women is limited to a particular religion. It happens everyday all over the world. Even in the good ole USA.

There's a much saner, and far less inflamatory, discussion of this issue in this thread, specifically related to Afghanistan but with a lot of food for thought about this issue in general, and how to support these women without "waging war."

As for women who might choose to go there or marry a man from there, well that's their choice and they are responsible for their own informed choices, and having made that choice, the consequences too are theirs to live with.

P.S. Your thread title is pretty insulting but probably is derived or stems from a lack of perspective of the complex issues in the big picture.

reply to post by LostNemesis

Well said. And in fact, our intervention and judgment oftentimes makes things far worse.




[edit on 8/1/2010 by ~Lucidity]

reply to post by sweetliberty


Thank you, on the ball as usual.

Originally posted by dreamwalker74
reply to post by facelift

 

Because there is no gender indicator on this site, I can not actually say. Although reading a post the other day it was cleverly estimated that 20% of the ATS populatlion is female.

in all honesty if we take a poll from the ATS females, i think they may tell us that they don't feel (at least) half the guys' posts do not count.

on the other hand, if we take a poll from the ATS males, they may tell us that the womens' posts count twice as much as the other males do.

i've spent a few years living in muslim nations. there are things on many levels from different cultures i can find to dissagree with.

but, the truth may be (allegedly) that we share 99.7+% of the same dna, no matter what humanzee primate we are talking about.

i do feel, and have witnessed frustrations, the females have from various regions around the globe.


i once had the fortune of seeing a very interesting tv commercial in an arabic language, and in an arabic nation....

three women in their "appropriate garb" were facing the counter/sink in the kitchen. their backs were towards the camera, and they were laughing and giggling.

as the camera moved towards their right and panned in on the sink and counter, it became apparent it was a dishwashing soap commercial.

then the subtext came up in english:
"________ soap. it will make all your wives happier"


i thought that made a hell of a slogan. my first inclination was to laugh, and i am sorry for that, but i thought it was a bit funny.

i wish the best for everyone no matter their status.


i just wish people would treat my home town like it was the capital of the planet when they are in my home town, and i wish i knew how to treat their home town like it is the capital of the planet when i am in their home town.

seems like a fair enough goal.

i treat the town i'm in like the capital of earth.
you treat the town you are in like it is the capital of earth.
when you are in my town, treat it like it is the capital of earth.
when i am in your town, i will in turn treat it like it is the capital of earth.

diversity ... helps make us "unique", i think. but belonging and not being alone is also a gift.

those are some of my thoughts.

enjoy the discussion & ATS is fun,
et

I read many times the sentiment that "it's another culture/religion/country/etc. and who are we to judge?" I believe that in many cases, this is a convenient fall back so as not to have to truly face up to that which one refuses to take a close look at...

reply to post by whatukno


The point of this thread depends on who the author is. The subject of this thread is very important and pertains to the human condition and especially the lives of women and children throughout the world and all these things should already be remedied. Not today, way way way past yesterday!

Very good subject for awareness. Sooooo...... what was the point of your post?

[edit on 1-8-2010 by Unity_99]

reply to post by ~Lucidity


Never once supported war to solve this, and am still outraged by the lack of female retaliation in defence of other women. Especially in the countries where we have free speach. Such as the U.S.A.

Originally posted by State of Mind
Why don't these women rise against their oppressors? Why have they taken so much abuse over the centuries?

Another question, what kind of father, or brother, or cousin can kill kin who has been raped, in the name of "honor killing"? For Christs (or Allahs) sake, what happened to protecting and loving your family? It's madness.

They can't, they die, and their children. We need to provide safe passage and freedom and choice for all citizens of this world, and rescuing women and children from slavery and oppression, and all good men, should be number priority along with ending starvation.

I believe the OP is suggesting we women stop long enough to walk into the shoes of the oppressed.
I don't believe he is talking about women who "choose" to live their, but how they are treated and I feel the same mentality and culture exists with them when they are on our soil.

I do not think all are of that mindset but many are.

I believe if we walked a mile in the shoes of the oppressed, we would take more into consideration before taking a stand.