The "Facts" of the bible and where we come from

Originally posted by metalholic
reply to post by wx4caster

 

cains wife is his sister...any more?

Right so how about you just post the exact quote from the bible that explains this then. See, this is how it should work. You see a question. You answer that question and then supply some supporting text from the bible to back up your answer. It is a really simple concept.

Originally posted by metalholic
reply to post by wx4caster

 

IV. And in the third week in the second jubilee 64-70 A.M.
she gave birth to Cain, and in the fourth she gave birth 71-77 A.M.
to Abel, and in the fifth she gave birth to her daughter 78-84 A.M.
’Âwân.

9. And Cain took ’Âwân his sister to be his wife and she bare him Enoch 3 at 190-196 A.M.
the close of the fourth jubilee. And in the first year of the first week of the fifth jubilee, houses were built 197 A.M.
on the earth, and Cain built a city, and called its name after the name of his son Enoch.

you were saying?

Where is this in the bible?

Originally posted by Y2KJMan
Cain's wife would have been either a sister, niece, or some other descendant of Adam and Eve's. Josephus said that the couple had 33 sons and 23 daughters if I remember correctly, it would most likely be out of these daughters Cain took a wife.

That reads an awful lot like just random guessing to me. What does it seem like to you?

Well, Genesis 1:24 discusses the creation of the animals, and Gen 1:27 is man. Considering the fact that so far it is chronologically ordered... it would behoove us to continue interpreting in that fashion.

Actually Genesis is anything but chronological thus my questions.

Genesis 2:18-19
And the Lord God said it is not good that man should be alone; I will make a help-meet for him. And out of the ground the Lord God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air, and brought them to Adam to see what he would call them.

According to that, the animals were created after Adam.

Eve was created from Adam's rib, therefore, Eve must have been created after Adam. Nothing else makes sense there.

Genesis 1:27
God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

This would suggest that they were created together, would it not?

The same thing he made fish out of.

So water or dirt?

Genesis 1:20
And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.

Genesis 2:19
And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air

Before man, as Gen 1:29 clearly states that plants covered the face of all the earth.

Gen 2 clearly states that no vegetation had risen until God created man.

Genesis 2:4-7
These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth ... And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the LORD God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground. But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground. And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground.

There never were multiple Gods, and there never will be. Thou shalt have no other Gods before me is illustrating and combating the fact that humans tend to "worship" things. Whether the thing be Michael Jordan a true to life basketball star, or this rock in the shape of a star, or Muphstalleh of the newly created religion Isckanism fresh from my mind.

Then what do you make of the following?

Genesis 1:26
And God said, let us make man in our image.

Genesis 3:22
And the Lord God said, Behold, then man is become as one of us, to know good and evil.

Genesis 11:7
Let us go down, and there confound their language.

Exodus 12:12
And against all the gods of Egypt I will execute judgment.

Exodus 15:11
Who is like unto thee, O LORD, among the gods?

Exodus 18:11
Now I know that the LORD is greater than all gods.

The other verses with the usage of us, should be attributed to the Trinity. Just because that Trinity had not been clearly defined at this point does not automatically mean that we can assume that it didn't exist.

How do you assume that it did? Where is the trinity explained as the answer in the bible?

When you are in first grade learning 1+1=2, that doesn't mean that calculus doesn't exist. You just havent been made aware of it yet.

Not even remotely the same thing. I am aware of the trinity, I just do not see where it is explained as the answer in the bible. I only see people guessing at things. I am more interested in how someone can claim something is 100% and then has to guess at what that truth is.

I am sorry for the lack of proof reading, and short answers. 3 kids + replies = rushed answers.

I appreciate any effort.

Originally posted by No King but Jesus
reply to post by evil incarnate

 

when I(get it) when I feel I need to I will otherwise these are understandable by a child with a 5th grade understanding of plain english-why do keep posting scriptures to make a point-yeah OK? and last but not least see if you can seems alot funner!

[edit on by No King but Jesus]

I am sorry NKBJ but your entire post is not understandable by 5th grade English standards so that can not be the answer.

Originally posted by metalholic
reply to post by wx4caster

 

book of jubilees i left the link earlier when op asked for source...see this is why you READ....if not you'll miss good stuff!

www.sacred-texts.com...

The "Book of Jubilees" is not the bible. It is a Jewish re-write, written around the 2nd century. It is as useful for answering bible questions as "Battlefield Earth."

Originally posted by mamabeth
reply to post by evil incarnate

 

Sorry,I did not threaten you!
I don't make it a habit to post on sunday!

Hope you can see how I might read it that way.

I will deal with you tomorrow.I am looking forward
to it.

I will deal with you later...have a nice evening!

Not that I took it as particularly hostile, just thought it was a friendly threat.

Originally posted by DieselCecil
OP makes some good points

I hope the op doesnt mind but id like to add a couple questions

I greatly encourage it.

Noah = 1 man on 1 boat inbreeding all the aminals in the world....com'on now.

and doesnt it bother any believers that god killed the first born as to punish the egyption people?? i guess thats the best way to make someone suffer...kill they children.

Nah, No child killing god for me...thanks

You touched on another one of my questions but seeing as how I got this far and no answers to the few I asked, I am not looking to overload the fundamentalists here. Feel free to do it yourself though.

Originally posted by Genesis322
reply to post by evil incarnate

 

I'll make a quick post with just a bit of information as I have to jet.

Do you know that the word used for "Adam" in Hebrew and Greek mean mankind?

Search a little, that will start you on your path of enlightenment.

So all of mankind had one wife and two sons? All of mankind bit from the apple? All of mankind had those conversations with God? God gave all of mankind a woman and animals because all of mankind was lonely?

[edit on 7/19/10 by evil incarnate]

Originally posted by Blue_Jay33

Originally posted by evil incarnate
Where did Cain's wife come from?
His Sister

Can you cite a source for that? Where does the bible state this fact?

Which came first, Adam or the animals and was Eve created at the same time or later?
Animals first, then Adam, then Eve but only after Adam named the animals.

But God gave Adam the animals because he was lonely.

What did God make the animals out of?
The bible doesn't specifically say, but I would say atomic particles of either matter or energy.

My bibles all do specifically state that they were made from the earth and then that they were made from that water.

When did the plants show up?
Before the animals

So it was plants, then animals, then Adam. Then Adam was lonely so God gave him animals and once Adam was there to till the soil, God gave him plants?

Were their multiple Gods at first?
No.

Why so many references to multiple gods?

I always thought that god made adam a wife before eve, called Lilith? Or so i have been told. Maybe she was cains wife?

Originally posted by No King but Jesus
reply to post by wx4caster

 

From the lips of children and infants you have ordained praise because of your enemies, to silence the foe and the avenger.-Ps8.2

"See that you do not look down on one of these little ones. For I tell you that their angels in heaven always see the face of my Father in heaven.
-Matt18.10

Multitudes, multitudes in the valley of decision! For the day of the LORD is near in the valley of decision.-Joel3.14

For the word of God is living and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.-Heb4.12

First you complain that anyone with 5th grade English can understand your quotes in a statement so far from English it was almost painful to read. Then you are told by more than one person that your random bible quotes do not even help anyone with anything. Why persist? I remember another member begging you to just assume they were too stupid to understand and needed you to at least explain how your quotes applied even a little in another thread. You still failed. Let me try the same. Assume I have a 3rd grade level of English and bible quotes confuse me anyway. Now that you know how simple I am, can you please attempt to add some of your own thoughts to these bible quotes. The reality is that I do not believe you understand most of the quotes you post or why you chose them. If you tried to expand on that, they might be interesting. At this point, they are simply getting you closer to ignore. As has been stated, we have access to bibles and can read quotes from it ourselves. What is not in any of my books is what people feel they learned from it and that is what I am far more interested in. Maybe you could save some time and simply state the verse and chapter and leave it at that.

Example.

Reply to any random poster
Mark 5:9

It will save you time and trouble as well as space that could be used by people with thoughts to express.

Originally posted by kiwitina948
The following link to another thread on this site may well answer all your questions on our origins. If you would like to take the time to read the whole set of papers (warning: it is quite lengthy) and just see how it 'sits' with you. Does the content of the Papers resonate with you as TRUTH or FICTION?

www.abovetopsecret.com...&addstar=1&on=4244747#pid4244747

Very interesting read nonetheless!!

Sure it is interesting and all but not even remotely related to this thread. I hate to sound rude but I thought I was pretty clear in the OP but apparently not.

I specifically addressed people that believe the bible is fact. There are enough of them on ATS that I knew I was addressing a real group of people.

If your answer is about how God is really an alien but you cannot find where the bible says that, then you want a different thread.

If your answer is about Jewish folklore written as a perversion of the bible late in history (Book of Jubilees) then you want a different thread.

If your answer is about the Terra Papers, then you want a different thread.

None of these things does anything to explain the "facts" that people believe the Bible is documentation of.

Thanks all the same. I have downloaded the entire pdf of the TPs but not read it all yet. It is a curious little treat but not at all related to answering questions specific to the bible.

Originally posted by jfj123
reply to post by evil incarnate

 

I can't give you much information except for noah's ark....it never happened.
The logistics make it impossible for many reasons. As example:
It would be impossible to build a wood ark big enough to fit 2 of all the animals in the world. Even if someone had the time and material, at a certain point, wood cannot be used because it will collapse on itself. Ever see a skyscraper made out of wood?

2 of every animal wouldn't allow for enough genetic variation for reproduction and continuation of the species.

etc....

I am all with you there but ATS has members such as NoturTypical that are more than happy to begin explaining how you just have the details all wrong. The problem is that he, and others, can never carry the story out to a logical end. I have seen nonsense about "kinds" of animals, not species. Apparently two coyotes on the Ark are why we have wolves and foxes today sans evolution of course. Aside from the number of animals taken aboard just to be repopulated, I have the question of animals needed to feed carnivores on a boat for over a year but I believe I saw that God made them hibernate.

Anyway, I have many questions about the Ark story and really I only have them because I know there are enough people here that believe it is a true story. I really want them to help me believe it as they do.

Originally posted by jaego
I always thought that god made adam a wife before eve, called Lilith? Or so i have been told. Maybe she was cains wife?

If I am not mistaken, Lilith is also from Jewish folklore. I know she is not in any of my bibles.

Well, if you are a believer, then just read the bible or study the bible. because the answers to all your questions are all in the bible.

Example; what was earlier, Adam or the animals ? Well the bible is indeed a bit confusion over here, because in Genesis 1 we read that god created animals and then he created man but in Genesis 2 we read that god first created man and then he created the animals because god saw that man was lonely.... after god created all the animals he saw that there wasen't a real helper for man so god put him to sleep and he created eve ...

Yes God sure knows how to confuse us over here

Originally posted by css1981
Well, if you are a believer, then just read the bible or study the bible. because the answers to all your questions are all in the bible.

If you are not a believer, then what? Just give up and not believe? I am sincerely trying to understand why people believe what they do. You are the second person to suggest that the bible is only true for those who believe it before they read it. Or are you just pointing that absurdity out?

Example; what was earlier, Adam or the animals ? Well the bible is indeed a bit confusion over here, because in Genesis 1 we read that god created animals and then he created man but in Genesis 2 we read that god first created man and then he created the animals because god saw that man was lonely.... after god created all the animals he saw that there wasen't a real helper for man so god put him to sleep and he created eve ...

Yes God sure knows how to confuse us over here

See my point? If you do not believe, this does not help.

Well, I have read most of the bible... but I don't believe everything...

I am not a christian, but I don't have anything against christianity

I think the bible is a beautifull book when you do believe in God and when you believe the bible is God's word and the one and only truth. To me the bible is also a beautifull book with a lot of beautifull stories inside... But I guess I am reading it from a different side of view..

These discussions are always interesting. They allow you to see certain people in a new light.

As a CHILD, there were a couple things in the bible that caused me to disregard it as junk.

1. God(s) saw that mankind was becoming too organized and building a temple that mankind thought would reach heaven. Apparently, this alarmed God (suspicious in itself that) and he said let us go down and confuse man by changing their language. So in essence, God is the cause of all this war and misunderstanding if you take the bible literally. No way around it.

2. Why leave certain books and chapters out. It's like reading a novel, no someones autobiography, but they've chosen to leave key chapters in their life out.

3. Does God really seem like a God or a god? You first must fathom what it would mean to be a God and stop humanizing him/she/it. We as people like to humanize everything. God is not a old man in the sky with a grey beard. The closest I can describe God is as a cloud. A cloud from which all moisture on Earth originates. We are the rain drops from that cloud. Everything in creation are raindrops from that cloud. A God doesn't have to "want us to do", "not want us to do", "like" or "dislike" anything! A God gets its way GUARANTEED! Otherwise it isn't a God but a god.

4. Where did the Devil/Satan, get the sack to think he could fight God and much less win. I'm talking about someone who has seen and been in God's presence. He KNOWS 100% that God created him by just speaking. He's seen God create the universe by speaking it into existence. How could you think you could combat something that powerful? You want to strike me to hurt me, and all I have to say is _____ you no longer exist! So no, the devil/Satan is a manmade adversary.

Folks lemme let you in on a secret. Yes God is real. But he is so unconcerned with what you think he is, that it isn't funny. The reason he's unconcerned is that he's infallible. You can't beat, get over on or disobey God.

Everything that happens is God's will. Since his will is everything. WE as mere fleshly PEOPLE have attempted to make logic of the world we perceive. We use "God's Will" as a way to control others. As a child my mother could tell me she didn't want me to do ____. I may still do it anyway. But if she told me "GOD" didn't want me doing _____. Now she was cooking. See how that works?

This was figured out a long time ago, by people who have always wished to control. Heck, take even The Book of Eli the movie. That man wanted the bible badly because he knew that proclaiming GOD wanted this or that he would face very little resistance.

Ladies and gentleman there are people on Earth who are cheating. There's a small group of people that know the TRUTH. Call them Illuminati, NWO, whatever you want. The leader of that society knows the truth about where we come from because he's getting help from the spiritual world. There has always been someone from this society that has the truth. They were given all these books of religion as a supreme weapon. Because nothing gets people fired up....like religion.

You want to know what Satan is? Satan is our love of this physical world. There are spirits lined up waiting to get their turn down here on this plane. Spirits don't get to experience the things we do and take for granted. They don't have cheeseburgers, and walks holding hands, and sex. They don't have the pain either. See when you are spiritual, you want to actually FEEL things we take for granted.

This is the great misunderstanding this world suffers from. The Devil/Satan is love of this physical world and not wanting to stay in the spiritual realm. When God "separated" heaven from Earth, the spiritual from the physical......he opened a can of worms!

reply to post by evil incarnate

Which came first, Adam or the animals and was Eve created at the same time or later?

What did God make the animals out of?

When did the plants show up?

Were their multiple Gods at first?

I'm gonna suggest that before you can tackle these questions and get even remotely viable answers, you must come to grips with the fact that mainstream translations and popular doctrinal stances do not equal what the original text says or even what it implies.

For example, in the language of the original text, in the noah story, the word "all" is not present. it was not all animals, in fact, if you read it carefully, it sounds like a representative sample from the sumerian king's barnyard and local environment. (seriously, 7 of this and 7 of that, in pairs, not pairs of every animal on the planet!). it coincides with the black sea flood timeline. the concept of all animals in pairs was added into the text via what i have come to refer to as translation bias and propagated via doctrinal stances.

so part of the inherent confusion is directly related to translation bias. Doctrinal stance (and translation bias) has assured that many do not realize that the opening passages of Genesis are not talking about a 6000 year old planet but rather a very old planet that has undergone "chaos" or "tohu" and is being re-terraformed, to include the inclusion of new species. the land isn't created but is already present. the water covering everything from the tohu, eventually recedes to reveal land.

the premise of the old testament passages is related almost exclusively to what bible scholars refer to as the human dispensation, so data about what happened prior to homo sapians, is seemingly not included, although is hinted at in rare spots through out the text. These concepts do not spring willingly from the pages, and only a person in search of the actual data, will be likely to find even a hint of it.

Therefore, you are arguing against already misleading doctrinal stances and incorrectly translated words. If you want to truly argue the points, you have to put the time in, otherwise, you're just spitting into the wind.

Originally posted by nophun

The Adam / eve / animals question is a classic because for some reason there is 2 different creation myths in Genesis.

EXACTLY.

The second story is where Adam comes first - the "Seven Days" story has animals preceding him:

Sixth day: God commands the land to bring forth living creatures (seventh command);[Gen 1:24–25] He makes wild beasts, livestock and reptiles. He then creates humanity in His "image" and "likeness" (eighth command).[Gen 1:26–28] They are told to "be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the earth, and subdue it." Humans and animals are given plants to eat. The totality of creation is described by God as "very good."

According to that one, Evolution can fit in quite nicely - so long as you understand that God wouldn't need to worry about "days."