Welcome to the Unpossible Future... The AGI Manhattan Project

reply to post by SaturnFX

Originally posted by SaturnFX
WE will be the AI...its not about creating a new lifeform...its about upgrading our body.
Will there be some wild AI? for sure...but we will always keep it in context of where we are...they will always have sticks to our guns so to speak.
all we do always ends up serving us...you think that when we create a superintelligence, 4 seconds later it wont be slapped into our system? heh...
The transhumanist thinking is not about creating a perfect robot, its about striving for evolving our species to the next step.

You are assuming that everyone will be playing by the rules. There will be rogues, there always are. And when you take the stick from the AI and order him back to his cage, don't be surprised to hear; "I'm sorry Dave, I can't do that."

reply to post by SaturnFX


I agree with you wholeheartedly. Evolution is and has been a natural process for millions of years before us. The only difference is that we are evolving ourselves. I don't know why that bothers people?

I disagree on one point: Humans are far smarter than the machines we build, because afterall they needed a human to build them. The human element will never be replaced by AI. Computers are only there to augment the things we are already capable of on our own. Computers just simply make performing various actions a lot faster than if done manually.

reply to post by IgnoranceIsntBlisss
you have done your home work, i gave you five stars, and

BRAVO!!!! your courage is beyond compression, for it is time this comes to light, the more that is come to the eye of others, we still have a chance to do what is right, for i for one do believe in the "last days" and we are in them, nothing is set in stone, we can change what our leaders want, the G8 G20 NWO, and the UN all have one thing in common, world power! they really do not care about the people of the earth, for why do think there is mass death, starvation, poverty, and infections like AIDS, H1N1, and others. they want this to go on, for if there is less to be controlled, then there is less to resist. and only the pure can be had, for if your on drugs, or with ailments, that need expensive treatments, then you are not productive, now on the other hand if your, say an other bill gates, then let there be no cap to cure/ care for you. just my thoughts, for you to see.

Originally posted by SaturnFX
Technology is the field equalizer...we are aware of the problems on earth because of progression of technology informing us and empowering the people...so who would be the ones that want the technology that is day by day waking people up to the corruption of the world...it is of course those whom thrive on secrecy. The more you talk about how the tech must be stopped, or we must abandon all our gadgets, the more you scream for the old system of hidden abuse and mass control to remain the norm.

Freedom through evolution.

False. With every technological progression comes the ability to further free or enslave humanity. The problem and solution does not reside in technology, rather in the philosophical domain you seem to think irrelevant. It's not merely the ability to communicate via technology which is stopping evils of the world, it's spiritual evolution. The level of technology is irrelevant.

If philosophical considerations doesn't trump the will to technologically progress, human beings are doomed.

Originally posted by IntelligenceGathering
wow could you spell it out more for us who you work for saturn 2.0, seriously.

I own my own business, if you need a website done, lemme know. As far as working for some spooky shadow government made of robots and slavemasters...meh, I worked at walmart once long long ago...close enough

we will evolve in our minds and hearts

People have been talking about spiritual evolution since the days of totems...show me one person whom has ever been shown to "transend" or even levitate...not stories, but concrete proof of such things and I may believe you...but what your saying is what has always been said...grow spiritually...

The joke is, there is no such thing...sure, you can grow in wisdom and knowledge, but by growing spiritually, you must first accept the physical in order to concentrate on the spiritual, and there is your flaw...you must create a duality of your existance before you then try to focus on the singular spiritual existance...
Your body, your physical material body is part of your spiritual experience, and adapting your body is a form of spiritual growth, be it through a tattoo, or a implant...same thing, and same trancendence.

Perfect example...chat to a old indian whom takes peyote to go on spiritual journeys...yep, a physical action and change to attain something greater. Many call these types of native americans as enlightened, not just some drug addict seeing nonsense...because not of the act, but as the context of why he is doing it.

Your context of self evolution is that it somehow diminishes yourself, yet you already particpate in it...simply by being on the computer you have artificual senses, from chatting with people across the world instantaniously, to having a world of knowledge easily accessed...whats the difference between it being outside of your body, and inside your body for maximum efficnency...its just matters of degrees your arguing...how close can you be in front of your moniter before it goes from a wonderful tool of knowledge and perspective to some demonic and diseased tool of self destruction...5 feet? 2 feet? implanted?....

reply to post by unityemissions


We have always been on track philosophically
When we learn of say, officals, being corrupt...we take action...historically this often involved dragging leaders through the street and beheading them...but information was slow and secretive back then, so it didn't happen as much as it should have been.

The peasents revolt all the time against those whom do wrongs...but they revolt when they know the numbers are on their side...technology simply facilitates spreading the information faster...from taking years of whispers and meetings in darkened alleys exchanging papers, to a minute by minute twitter or whatever else...the powers have lost their control over information and that is a good thing.

The desire for mankind to be free from tyranny and oppression has always been ripe, technology just allows the expediting of action behind the philosophy...and this is a case where it serves the masses more than the few oppressors.

The fax machine was instramental in the fall of the USSR, technological progress has been and always will be the bane of oppressors..

See North Korea for a real world example.

reply to post by SaturnFX


Your world view is terribly deluded by thinking that technological progression is anything other than neutral towards humanity. Objects are not subjects. Please don't confuse the two.

If we are not able to control the evils of this world under our current, globalized community structure and level of technological progression, why would you think that mere technology would give the people an upper hand? Can you not see that the ethical problems have already created abuses of technology which are used to enslave humanity?

The tech in itself is neutral, but superior tech in the hands of the few is not neutral at all. In warfare, the army with superior tech generally wins. Are we not in a state of war against the elte? Do they not possess superior tech?

Sure, we've got the capability to communicate across the globe in fractions of a second, but don't the elite have ways of curbing our ability to organize via these means of communication? Doesn't this new AI track all phone calls, and messages? As long as a secretive section is hellbent on classifying people as inferior, superior based on superficial discrimination, technology will be used with the intent and ability to be more harmful than beneficial. The tech is neutral, but it's our state of mind and intended use of the tech which makes it right or wrong.

[edit on 15-7-2010 by unityemissions]

reply to post by SaturnFX


you know : you are strange : you only use full logic when you want to impose your vision. You use the so called CO2 and green ideology, plus a fallacious vision of the energy need to impose your vision :

A question : how much energy use an african to recharge his human batteries though vegetal and water ?

but the ultimate technology : is biology : not robotic.

A robot consumption will never be as efficient as a muscle.

Globally you would think that a computorium would be more efficient than all human brain on earth ... yes : but not if it must use the same relationships with the reality : with robots.

So you want to loose control over the real world : do you ?

A (complex) nano robot : will never be as efficient as a bactery, a virus, etc.

www.kk.org...

the ultimate technology : is biology ...

"my little digital camera has FAR more ability than my eyes"

And what ?

Human eyes equivalent : is 10 M pixel in video at a higher frame rate + very fast latency ( you know something is here before your brain even sees it ) + wide angle vision + multiple focus

[edit on 15-7-2010 by psychederic]

Revelation 13:14-16 (New International Version)

14Because of the signs he was given power to do on behalf of the first beast, he deceived the inhabitants of the earth. He ordered them to set up an image in honor of the beast who was wounded by the sword and yet lived. 15He was given power to give breath to the image of the first beast, so that it could speak and cause all who refused to worship the image to be killed. 16He also forced everyone, small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on his right hand or on his forehead...

- Great Genius builds space stations and successful artificial
intelligence machine, transferring his consciousness to it.
Intelligent machines used to manage space stations. Occurs in 21st or
22nd centuries. I p289 (cIV-32)

www.initsimage.org...

memespore.sweb.cz...

The question is, whose AI are we talking about?

reply to post by IgnoranceIsntBlisss


Kudos to you for the very well put together thread OP, S&F.

The thing with threads about stuff like this is, is that people are sitting back in fear waiting to just wake up one day and everything be different. Well things aren't happening overnight (okay well some are, but I'm talking in general), the world is changing for the worse over long periods of time; eventually we will be at a point where we will look back and realize our mistakes were much larger than we thought.

The time to act was 10 years + but the bright side to all of this is that people are opening their minds to the reality of things, and we can take action now rather than wait to be implanted with a microchip.

There is so much civil unrest and with civil unrest comes civil war. There is only a certain tolerable level, and that level is much higher than most can tolerate at this time. For those who are able to tolerate this BS, well they more than likely do not have a clue what is happening to themselves or their loved ones, or their 'beloved country & world.'

It unfortunate to think I'm in my early twenties and I know that there will be nothing but more horrible things to come - including another world war - in my lifetime.

I keep sitting here thinking something is going to start at anytime, but I can't allow 'them' or anyone at all to make me feel that way. I need to keep pushing on with my full strength, although I admit my strength seems to be weakening...

I hope everyone takes a good look at this thread and others like it and realize what must be done.

reply to post by unityemissions


Yes, technology is neutral by nature
I am simply arguing that the people must strive for it.

Simply put, the technology discussed in this thread is and will be created...this will not have any other outcome than just that.

So, the question is, do you (society in general) want to reject it and leave it used in secrecy by the few, or demand it and have it open sourced for the people at the bottom end of the pyramid.

My stand is that we collectively insist on it, fight for it, fund it, and make it available to all, both king and slave.

As far as abuses in power go, that has always happened, that will always happen, and the only thing that checks abuses is equal grounding...in what we are discussing here, it is tech. it is evolution. The camera turned people into drones watching TV and being programmed...but it became affordable and put into cheap cell phones, and suddenly people started recording and putting out their own programming, countering the programmers to begin with. Technology in the hands of a few = bad thing...technology in the hands of the masses = good thing. its really as simple as that.

Rejecting technology only serves the few verses the many.

Originally posted by IgnoranceIsntBlisss

Originally posted by Scalded Frog
Extremely well thought out and presented.

Originally posted by Wally898
Thanks for the read.

Originally posted by superluminal11
You get 2 stars from me. WOW

Originally posted by libertine23
You're the man. I sure hope you're wrong about the world and it's people

yeah, i wanna add my props too. excellent work - this stuff is going on as we speak and none of it's being done for the benefit of "us" (the people, the masses..)

i am particularly concerned about the way google is taking over more and more - i started a thread about the danger of android apps a while back.

1984 and then some

oh, and s+f 2 u op

23

Originally posted by Kalki11
Revelation 13:14-16 (New International Version)

14Because of the signs he was given power to do on behalf of the first beast, he deceived the inhabitants of the earth. He ordered them to set up an image in honor of the beast who was wounded by the sword and yet lived. 15He was given power to give breath to the image of the first beast, so that it could speak and cause all who refused to worship the image to be killed. 16He also forced everyone, small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on his right hand or on his forehead...

Ooh, a biblical quote...how approprate.
Lets see what else pearls of wisdom the bible states

People who have flat noses, or is blind or lame, cannot go to an altar of God (Leviticus 21:17-18)

"For I am merciful, saith the Lord, and I will not keep anger forever." (Jeremiah 3:12)
"Ye have kindled a fire in mine anger, which shall burn forever." (Jeremiah 17:4)


"If I testify about myself, my testimony is not valid." (John 5:31)
"Jesus answered: Even if I testify on my own behalf, my testimony is valid." (John 8:14)

"And Jesus coming, spoke to them, saying: All power is given to me in heaven and in earth." (Matthew 28:18)
"the whole world is under control of the evil one." (1 John 5:19)

And Jesus said, "For judgement I am come into this world." (John 9:39)
"I came not to judge the world" (John 12:47)

"Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven." (Matthew 5:16)
"Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of them: otherwise ye have no reward of your Father which is in heaven." (Matthew 6:1)

"Jacob said, 'I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.'" (Genesis 32:30)
"No man hath seen God at any time." (John 1:18)

"And Jesus coming, spoke to them, saying: All power is given to me in heaven and in earth." (Matthew 28:18)
"the whole world is under control of the evil one." (1 John 5:19)

Lets keep silly books out of this particular topic...this is a thread on reality, not on bleep blarp and the merry men of magic cavemen, ktksbie

reply to post by SaturnFX


I do understand that I am being hypocritical by using a computer/internet, I wish it didn't have to be that way.

I also agree with your other statement, so let me rephrase. Perhaps utopia would be void of artificial intelligence instead of technology as a whole. It is very challenging to alter the course of something that has been on track for so long.

The only conclusion I see is to get the f**k of the computer
and start TALKING to your parents, friends and co-workers.
No more dicking around shy of what you think.

Are you free or not in this "demo" (neg)-"c" (collective)-"racy" (elitism)?

Stop with the keyboard comandos... talk person to person,
make the difference... dont start doing service to others
"when the bad time comes". Do today. Dont be shy to show
the lies of the MSM ways.

I bet most sleeping people only have 2 or 3 comebacks to anything
you say to them, before they come silent and at the mind border of
their prison cage. Bring them there often, they will see the lies.

RP

Originally posted by Buretto
The only way humans can be saved from this AGI is to stop using technology all together.

true. by allowing ourselves to be dependent on technology, we feed the advance of technology's use against us.

i personally look forward to a mega solar flare that kills it all dead, even if only for a while to make us realise what's important...

23

The problem and solution does not reside in technology, rather in the philosophical domain you seem to think irrelevant. It's not merely the ability to communicate via technology which is stopping evils of the world, it's spiritual evolution. The level of technology is irrelevant.

If philosophical considerations doesn't trump the will to technologically progress, human beings are doomed.

very well said, philosophy is everything

23

Originally posted by IgnoranceIsntBlisss
The reality is, by all definitions, here in the US we've been enveloped by corporate fascism, ...

and sometimes the taxes are hidden taxes supported and written by lawmakers who are subjugated and who are usurped by the will of lobbyists.

case and point??

car insurance.

i've averaged making $27,000 a year over 23 years of employment as either a firefighter in the military (USAF) or working for/with developmentally disabled skilled care children as a cna, emt, and habilitation aide.

i have never owned a vehicle that costs more than $14,000.
i have never had to make a claim.

i have paid more than $50,000 in manditory insurance scam due to laws.

out of 23 years of full time 60+ hour weeks of work, i have worked a minimum of 2 years of my entire life for the insurance i am required by law to pay.

2 years of my life & my manhours dedicated towards vehicle insurance alone. not a house, not food, not "taxes", not luxury, not spent on family or on friends, just vehicle insurance i've never used.


taxes are hidden.
how the money is spent is hidden.
how the money is made is hidden.
why the money is needed is hidden.
what the money is used for is hidden.


where did 2 years of wages end up after i paid mandatory vehicle insurance summing more than 3 times the value of my vehicles?


state farm,
you owe me a new car at some point, don't you?


lawmakers, make it so.


thanks,
et

That is by far the best post I have read in ATS. I've been scouring the internet trying to assemble a mental puzzle. In my 44 years on this planet (this time around) I've acquired a somewhat opaque view of "what's it all about". Sifting through the purposefull deceptions that have sprinkles of truth in them has been time consumming and daunting at times. Every so often you find another piece of the puzzle and eventually enough pieces are assembled and a grainy picture comes into view.

I believe the picture of mine / our reality just got brought into view through your efforts and analysis. There is a collective, controlling force comprised of unfathomably crafty, and powerful individuals who understand with perfect clarity how to use the unwitting efforts of the average man against himself and his non compliant bretheren. The goal of this collective is "total" control and once this complete control system is in place, there will no fear of reprisals.

This is happening, but that's not the shocking part. The most disturbing part is that otherwise good people are willingly, unknowingly fabricating the very chains that their masters will use to forever enslave them with.

All you can do is your part. Get out of The Matrix, stop feeding the beast. The food of the beast is tax dollars, anger, nationalism, political bickering, racism, fear, greed, etc (you know how we are controlled). Stop being a part of it. If they ask you to pick up a gun for them-----no!! If they ask you to spy on your brother------no!! Turn off the TV, never vote for an incumbent, NEVER!! Barter your services whenever possible, Stop drinking soda, turn off the shoot em up video games, plant a garden, read a history book. You get the picture.

Start with the man in the mirror, he's always the toughest to convince!!!!

Peace!!

Super post my friend. Very well researched. Your post reminded me of another one of our members posts and it think you might find it interesting. Military AI Supercomputer is very in depth like your post with tons of links though you look like you've done your home work.

Listen to what Speilburg is saying here. It is in regards to his movie A.I. I think it is a tell....


Again, awesome thread.

Peace