Islam is the best DEMOCRACY (NOT Western Democracy)

Originally posted by Freeborn
reply to post by oozyism

 

What YOU meant and everyone else understands seems to be two completely different things.

An Islamic government would be a Theocracy.

That does not detract from the essence of the thread, which I suppose would be your belief that an Islamic Theocracy is more favourable than a Western style Democracy.

I will repeat:

1. When I say Democracy, in most people's head it means people having the right to choose.

The statement is self explanatory.

People choose to become Muslim.

I can't continue repeating myself.

Originally posted by Freeborn

Originally posted by Michael Cecil

Were it known that Mohammed was Elijah and John the Baptist 'raised from the dead' and that the Doctrine of "resurrection" is a Doctrine of 'Rebirth', the multi-billion dollar Judaeo-Christian religious establishment would be in quite serious danger.

I think it would be a hell of a blow to Islam as well, a religion that almost deifies Mohammned.

Any issues about democracy is a political matter.

Something most people seem to be missing, including the OP.

Of course it would threaten the multi-billion dollar interests of the Muslim religious establishment.

What is not widely known by Christians is that the Christian religious establishment is the "anti-Christ religious establishment" because it turns upside down the Teaching of Jesus that the "resurrection" is a Doctrine of 'Rebirth'.

What is not widely known by Muslims is that the Muslim religious establishment is the "dajjal religious establishment" because it ignores the Doctrine of "resurrection" as 'Rebirth', which was also taught by Mohammed.

That is the reason for the violence in the Middle East.

That and that the Jews have also turned the Torah and the Prophets upside down, while ignoring the Prophecies of Daniel.

Michael Cecil

reply to post by and14263


Sorry and14263 but the point still stands, hence you choose to become Muslim, that includes women.

If a woman believe the Islamic system is unjust, she doesn't need to become an Islamic citizen.

Originally posted by oozyism
reply to post by and14263

 

Sorry and14263 but the point still stands, hence you choose to become Muslim, that includes women.

If a woman believe the Islamic system is unjust, she doesn't need to become an Islamic citizen.

So then the woman has to opt out of democracy too... is that what you mean?

Originally posted by Freeborn
reply to post by woodwardjnr

 

The Book is much funnier.

I just wish they had the balls to do a version of Mohammeds life as well...that would be the funniest of all.

Oh but they can do it if they want.
But, maybe they are afraid.
No, not afraid of muslims, people have done many things worse than that against Islam.

But, maybe, unconsciously, they are AFRAID OF GOD.

Ever thought of that?

reply to post by and14263


Yes the women can leave Islam if they wish, it is their choice.

SECOND LINE, as the rules state.

reply to post by skajkingdom


Of course they are afraid.

Afraid of the backlash they would receive including fatwahs and all that nonsense.

Originally posted by oozyism
reply to post by and14263

 

Sorry and14263 but the point still stands, hence you choose to become Muslim, that includes women.

If a woman believe the Islamic system is unjust, she doesn't need to become an Islamic citizen.

Yes, and what about women in this muslim world, will they be free to wear what they want? Go where they want? Say what they want? Will they be free to become Doctors, Lawyers, ect?

reply to post by oozyism

But then that completely goes against democracy.

1) Democracy - all people are equal
Islam - it would seem women are less equal

2) Democracy - seems to be best for all
Islam - seems only to be perfect for a little over half the population (men), so if the woman doesn't like it she cannot vote her say she has to leave.

Your theory, in my tiny mind is 'totally bogus'.

reply to post by oozyism


Because I disagree with you I am a troll?

Because I pull you up on you using your own interpretation of the concept of 'democracy' I am a troll?

en.wikipedia.org...(Internet)

Everything I have posted has been relevant to the thread, that is not trolling.

You just seem unable to handle anyone who dares confront you or disagree with you.

Very tolerant I must say.

Originally posted by Chance321

Yes, and what about women in this muslim world, will they be free to wear what they want? Go where they want? Say what they want? Will they be free to become Doctors, Lawyers, ect?

Why do you circle out women.

Men AND Women, according to islam, should dress MODESTLY.

As in, do not provoke without any need.


Everyone, men AND women, can be doctors, lawyers, etc., within a reasonable framework - BEFORE WOLVES JUMP IN HERE: Reasonable Framework means, it is a biological fact that women cannot do some work men can, mainly due to physical/biological limitations (e.g. hard work).

reply to post by and14263


You have to elaborate more on equal, what do you mean by equal for all>?

At the end of the day, the equality comes within that decision making. Whether you agree Islam treats men and women different but equal or not, is up to you.

You can decide to become an Islamic citizen if you wish, that is the perfect Democracy.

IF you want to drift to the Women issue, whether men and women are equal, or what equality truly means, etc then sure, but you have to bring specific point for us to debate on.

Don't forget, a Democracy can choose to demean the status of men or women.

Some argue the men have less rights at current Western Democracies, but that is a whole different issue.

reply to post by and14263


Islam is the antithesis of Democracy.

Even our poor excuses for Democracy allow for acertain amount of freedom of will, thought and choice.

Islam is the submission to the whole belief system that is contained in The Koran.
Democracy has no place in Islam.

reply to post by Chance321


Restrictions exists both for men and women, don't isolate women.

Those are all in the Quran, those need their own threads, I'll make one soon, don't worry.

reply to post by oozyism

What a truly pointless debate.

I provided quotes in my previous posts of examples of how women are seen as less equal.

If we need to go further in depth about the meaning of the word 'equal' then we are very far from a democracy.

I'm sorry but I can't waste my time on this anymore. I'm beginning to think the thread was a bit of a joke to drum up some attention.

Have fun in here, you'll get some good debates from people.

Originally posted by skajkingdom

Originally posted by Chance321

Yes, and what about women in this muslim world, will they be free to wear what they want? Go where they want? Say what they want? Will they be free to become Doctors, Lawyers, ect?

Why do you circle out women.

Men AND Women, according to islam, should dress MODESTLY.

Because from what I've seem of islam they seem to treat women as if they are below men. And you didn't touch on the question on, are they free to speak their minds and go where they wish without being escorted. Also, I'm just curious, what's your definition of dress modestly for a woman? Is it the head to toe robes you see so many muslim women wear or what?

Originally posted by oozyism
reply to post by Chance321

 

Restrictions exists both for men and women, don't isolate women.

Those are all in the Quran, those need their own threads, I'll make one soon, don't worry.

Please don't. I have no intrest. From what I've seen an read, I have no intrest in converting willingly or unwillingly.
www.islam-watch.org...

Originally posted by Chance321

Because from what I've seem of islam they seem to treat women as if they are below men. And you didn't touch on the question on, are they free to speak their minds and go where they wish without being escorted. Also, I'm just curious, what's your definition of dress modestly for a woman? Is it the head to toe robes you see so many muslim women wear or what?

1. What do you mean by "speak their mind"?

2. Yes they can go where they wish. The Escort thing was primarily intended as a protection. You must understand that a woman running around ALONE in the 7th century was practically a gift on a plate for Slave Traders, Murderers, Rapists, etc.

3. Dress Code:

O CHILDREN of Adam! Indeed, We have bestowed upon you from on high [the knowledge of making] garments to cover your nakedness, and as a thing of beauty: but the garment of God-consciousness is the best of all. Herein lies a message from God, so that man might take it to heart. (Qur'an, 7:26)

And tell the believing women to lower their gaze and to be mindful of their chastity, and not to display their charms [in public] beyond what may [decently] be apparent thereof; [37] hence, let them draw their head-coverings* over their bosoms. (Qur'an, 24:31)

* - The noun khimar (of which khumur is the plural) denotes the head-covering customarily used by Arabian women before and after the advent of Islam. According to most of the classical commentators, it was worn in pre-Islamic times more or less as all ornament and was let down loosely over the wearer’s back; and since, in accordance with the fashion prevalent at the time, the upper part of a woman’s tunic had a wide opening in the front, her breasts cleavage were left bare. Hence, the injunction to cover the bosom by means of a khimar, (a term so familiar to the contemporaries of the Prophet) does not necessarily relate to the use of a khimar as such but is, rather, meant to make it clear that a woman’s breasts are not included in the concept of "what may decently be apparent" of her body and should not, therefore, be displayed.

I'm noticing an increasing number of non-sequiturs being posted lately!

Religion as politics has been tried repeatedly throughout the course of human history they have almost always resulted in dictatorship and tyranny. This is called a "THEOCRACY" and is is NOT at all a Democracy. The reason is quite simple, the majority DO NOT get to choose the tenets of the religion that rules the Theocracy - their only choice is to either participate or not participate - IF they're lucky!