Revelation: The Beast from the Sea- a World State

reply to post by Maymunah

Thank you for those comments.

I found the Harlot to be a very complex creature.
Apart from the threads mentioned in the post just above yours, which relate her to the political power, to the appeal of idolatry, and to the infidelity of God's own people, there's also a more recent thread which touches on a possible connection with human sin;
Babylon's Wake

Originally posted by IamBoon
No, I just heard this before and you did put some new stuff in . By the way doesn't this whole pre-destination act kinda screw up free-will>? I myself DO find revelation interesting and you put together a VERY well thought out post. I am sorry if I seem ignorant of that fact.



I wanted to know who was the whore ? The beast is ridden by her and it seems to me that she is drunk on excess , delusion , and corruption. Can you help me on that?

The woman represents a church so all you have to do is figure out which church killed her people when they did not fall in line and which church is decked out in purple and eed with a golden cup covered in jewels full pf her filthy abominations . The city of seven hills is her home.

reply to post by Godsontoo

I think you may be oversimplifying here. The Harlot of Babylon is a very complicated lady, so she needs to be discussed with a lot of caution.
My response to all questions on the Harlot of Babylon, and the relationship between Babylon and Rome, is contained in the attached threads;

Harlot Babylon; "The Other Woman"

Harlot Babylon; "Mother of Abominations"

Seven kings and an eighth

Harlot Babylon; "Twinned with Rome"

Harlot Babylon; "Drunk with the blood of the Saints"

There is now an Index, covering all these Revelation threads, at this location;

Index of Revelation threads

This thread is numbered as #25 in the "order of chapters" list and Biblical reference index.

Originally posted by DISRAELI
... Daniel ch7, which is the place where Daniel sees four great beasts coming up out of the sea. These are always understood to represent four kingdoms, and we can identify most of them with reasonable certainty.

It seems that modern scholars are tending to arrange the four beasts of Daniel ch7 in a different way, viz.;
1 Babylon
2 The Medes
3 The Persians
4 Alexander

To anyone who knows history, this division makes no sense at all. The Medes and the Persians were hardly separate eras in ancient history, any more than “the English empire” and “the Scottish empire” are separate eras in European history. Once there was a Persian dynasty on the throne of the Medes, they went together. Whereas there was nothing particularly “double” and “one leg higher than the other” about the Median empire on its own.

As for the third beast, the rapid movement and four-fold division are a better fit for Alexander’s empire than for the Persians. In any case, the animal with similar features in the supplementary vision of ch8 is explicitly identified as “the king of Greece”, so that really ought to settle the matter.

However, I can understand what’s motivating this modern arrangement. One of the products of the goat is a “little horn”, which scholars want to identify, quite reasonably, with the infamous Antiochus Epiphanes. The fourth beast in ch7 also produces a “little horn”, so scholars jump to the conclusion that this is another reference to Antiochus Epiphanes (which would make the fourth beast Alexander). That reasoning evades the possibility, which seems to provide a more straightforward interpretation, that Daniel is contemplating a second “little horn”, in the more distant future. That “second horn” would be modelled on the infamous king, but not the same person.

Just to clarify;
Nothing in the OP is intended to suggest any particular prophetic significance in the year 2012 or the date 21/12/2012

S&F and thank you for bringing this older thread back to the front page as I hadn't seen it.

I had my own interpretation of Revelation and it is similar to yours although the powers aren't political but religious.

Check the thread in my signature

reply to post by anoncoholic

Thank you.
This was one of a series covering Revelation as a whole, and the rest can be found indexed on
Revelation;Project Complete

- 13 is JESUS, Chapter 13 in the Revelation was written against Jesus. FRIDAY 13TH is JESUS
12 APOSTLES, THE 13TH WAS JESUS

- 666 = XXX = +++ = FATHER, SON, HOLY SPIRIT =HOLY TRINITY = JESUS
- 666 = Friday the 6th day of the week, THE DAY JESUS WAS CRUCIFIED
666 = 6 FOOT UNDER
666 = There are 6 weeks of lent prior to EASTER
666 = 6th letter of the aplhabet is F = FRIDAY = Friday 13th = JESUS
666 = Revelations ,The Father- 6th Seal
Son - 6th Trumpet
Holy spirit- 6th Bowl
666= Revelation 13.5 "The beast was allowed to make proud claims which were insulting to God
and it was permitted to have authority for Forty two months" = 42 months = 3.5 years,
Jesus started to preach at the age of 30 and was crucified at the age of 33 and half years
= 3.5 years = 42 months

666= The second book of Esdras , the Fifth Vision of the EAGLE-
Most scholars date the the Eagle Vision during 69- 96 AD.
" the second night Ihad a dream. I saw an eagle coming up out of the sea.
It had twelve wings and three heads. All three heads was a sleep,
even the middle one, which was larger then the other two"
= EAGLE = JESUS AS SATAN

reply to post by DISRAELI


My response to the claims made about the year 2012 was that I could see no prophetic significance in the date.
This position seems to have been vindicated.

reply to post by IamBoon


Apologies to respond to such an old post, but (in some senses, it would seem), before a near-death experience about a year ago, I thought very similarly. But a lot of study of a surprising array of information led me to a new outlook on the subject of free will.
Preface: this may sound heated brother or sister, but its directed inward as much as outward, I'm certain you understand the philosophies behind that concept.

We totally do that free will; the Universe/the Spirit/Pistis-Sophia WHATEVER you call it/her/him has a plan, however, and your will kinda has nothing to do with that. Here's a new thought: maybe we are allowed to have will, and sometimes our will goes along with God's plans and sometimes our will just totally #s it up! At that point I believe we are presented Endless chances to get back to that plan. Kind of nice, I think.

Something (for myself and everyone; maybe Myself-Everyone?) to dwell on; just to think, not to convert intentionally or any other hidden agenda. Just think about trying Endless Gratefulness and observe your lifepath changing.

We, humans, (here's a point I bet we all agree on), are sometimes #ty little creatures who to nothing but beg from their gods and God as well, doing kinda sorta #ing NOTHING in return, not even a simple THOUGHT like "oh thanks I was hungry" when finding an apple in your handbag (seriously,the experiences rang from something "mundane" like that to me being so grateful to the Universe/Spirit during sex that i had a physical and spiritual orgasm (dare I say, rapture, ecstasy/agony---it felt indescribable but simultaneously like a good punch to the belly) without ANY physical contact. Curious note is my husband was physically achieving ecstasy at that exact moment).
Just a strangely revealing experience I've had very recently.

reply to post by DISRAELI


The BEAST From The Sea...
(The 'beast' is an individual, human...)
(The 'sea' can have a 2 fold meaning)



we all know that the Dutch, the Netherlands creates their own additional Land by reclaiming dry space from the Sea

so, the Book of Revelation fact given us about the 'Beast/Man' is that 'he' comes from the Sea...
now we know that this 'beast' will not be a reincarnated Atlantian,
because both the Revelation & Daniel Apocalypse Books say this Beast is Unique
and only reveals himself for the final 3 1/2 years of great tribulation


so the reasonable conclusion is that this man=Beast that comes-from-the-Sea, must reasonably come from a Land that was reclaimed from the Sea (waters)... the Netherlands or Luxemburg, Denmark countries



Now as to the end-times person... my bet is that this man-become-Beast is one of the Founders of the Bilderberg Group


see this link:

..."Dutch Prince Bernhard, Bilderberg founder ‘was member of Nazi party’

March 9, 2010 in News
Prince Bernhard and his daughter Queen Beatrix Photo: REX FEATURES



By Bruno Waterfield
telegraph.co.uk
March 5, 2010

“Bernhard, a secret history” has revealed that the prince was a member of the German Nazi party until 1934, three years before he married Princess Juliana, the future queen of the Netherlands.

also note that this man was one of the co-founders of the elitist Bilderberg Group


So we have the region where the 'beast' ascends out of the Sea (netherlands)
a small group or party aids the 'Beast' to global prominence (the Bilderberg Group]
a possible candidate 'Prince Bernhard. or possibly even Rockefeller for 'Beast" == AKA MABUS













Origins - articles which explain how and why the Bilderberg ...www.bilderberg.org...

Bilderberg from the beginning has been administered by a small core group,
constituted since 1956 as a steering committee, consisting of a permanent chair.....

Origins of the Bilderberg meetings
[This site campaigns for a press conference at all Bilderberg venues - and a declaration from the steering committee that any consensus reached must be in our public, not their private interest]

A rare photograph of the first Bilderberg meeting in 1954Creator and chairman of the Bilderbergers was a card carrying member of Hitler's SS and repeatedly lied when asked if he was a Nazi party member as a student (separate page all about Prince Bernhard of the Netherlands)

reply to post by St Udio

I don't think this Beast is an individual.
I think this Beast is a political state.
It is clearly modelled on the beasts which rise from the sea in Daniel ch7, and the beasts in Daniel ch7 are political states.

a reply to: DISRAELI

I find it fortuitous that I found this thread. (Thanks to another thread of yours I was reading) I wanted to know what your beliefs were on the topic, and see they match what I am thinking perfectly.

The only thing I think here, is that you need to remember something. First, that the timeline is very slow. It actually has to be for things to be as they were in the days of Noah, for people to marry and be giving in marriage, and not to realize, even so-called Christians who are not among the elect yet know the bible, will not realize the hour is upon them.

If it was quick, only a dense person would not realize what was happening, especially people who know what the bible says. So it's much slower a time frame than anyone imagines. God says "short" yet He is Himself eternal, so short is not so short in our estimation of time.

People can tolerate many things, when given the time to adjust to them. When you slap them over the head all at once, they don't acclimate to the new ways. This is what makes things like creeping communism more dangerous, people don't realize they are living under it until its too late to change it.

I believe the same can be said about the tribulation. It is a much longer period of time, until its too late. When things become unavoidably obvious, it will be too late to stop it, and nearly all events that lead up to it, in my estimation, are basically the fault of human kind.

nvm

originally posted by: Kitana
First, that the timeline is very slow. It actually has to be for things to be as they were in the days of Noah, for people to marry and be giving in marriage, and not to realize, even so-called Christians who are not among the elect yet know the bible, will not realize the hour is upon them.

In fact I think the message of the "days of Noah" warning is that the event would be sudden and instantaneous, as well as being unexpected, interrupting normal life so quickly that nobody would have time to react. It should be related to Paul's "in the twinkling of an eye".

I believe the same can be said about the tribulation. It is a much longer period of time, until its too late. When things become unavoidably obvious, it will be too late to stop it, and nearly all events that lead up to it, in my estimation, are basically the fault of human kind.

The tribulation is a different matter, because it precedes the final event that Jesus was talking about.
In Revelation, at least, it means the persecution of the church. When God's people are suffering wholesale oppression, that is the tribulation. So we can say that the tribulation has arrived when we see that happening.

Was it "the futility of date-setting" which prompted you to look for this one?

a reply to: DISRAELI

Yes, because I agree. We cannot set dates.

originally posted by: Kitana
The Beast rises up out of the "sea" meaning, the sea of peoples around the Mediterranean from a biblical standpoint.

"The waters represent peoples" comes from a single remark in ch17, but I prefer to focus on the point that "the sea" symbolises the place where evil originates. That is why God says at the end "there will be no more sea". This symbolism derives from the idea that the sea is one of the surviving portions of the "abyss of waters" which God organised in the beginning.

If I am correct here, the beast is rising right now, and the harlot is riding it as we speak. We are witness to this right now. Which puts us, at this moment, right here in Revelation. I could be wrong, as only time will tell. But I believe we are living now in the beginning of this event.

I'm not sure if you've had time to reallise that I did a whole series of threads going through Revelation
Revelation; Project complete
In terms of "where we are", my analysis went like this;
The Four Horsemen of ch6 are different aspects of a catastrophic experience for the world, which comes first.
Then is then a pause, covered by ch7.
My theory is that the Beast rises to power during this pause. It is driving the recovery process, which is what makes it so popular.
THEN comes the rest of Revelation, involving the persecution of the church and God's reaction to the persecution (beginning with the trumpets and ending with the return of Christ and the new Jerusalem).
If the Four Horsemen are what I think they are, then we haven't seen them yet. So most of the rest of Revelation must still be in our future as well.

a reply to: DISRAELI

Quick question, do you believe that the book of revelation deal with the entire church age (ie: from Jesus onward)? From beginning to end.

a reply to: Kitana
No, because it is not meant to be a prophetic history.
It is about a time of persecution, and the church's need to remain faithful under persecution, and God's promise to defend them.
I think it gets a partial fulfilment through the Roman persecution, which was the original motive for writing, and a more complete fulfilment when the church is being persecuted before the return of Christ.
I see the interval between the two persecutions as the "thousand years" when Satan (the persecuting power) has been imprisoned.