Revelation: The Beast from the Sea- a World State

reply to post by DISRAELI


Here is the Coronation Chair for the Queen of England, once thought to hold the Stone of Destiny, Jacobs Pillowstone - a chunk of green moldivite brought (not to be confused with dropped out of the sky) from Sirus??? (reminiscent of the kryptonite -that would subdue Superman) Some say it was the Holy Grail rather than (or in addition to) the Chalice.....Could these be the four horsemen or beasts envisioned? Perhaps the 7 heads are 7 Nations....

I watched as the Lamb opened the first of the seven seals. Then I heard one of the seven living creatures say in a voice like thunder, "Come and see." I looked, and there before me was a white horse! Its rider held a bow, and he was given a crown, and he rode out as a conqueror bent on Conquest.

revelations 6:1-2



[edit on 21-7-2010 by rusethorcain]

reply to post by rusethorcain

Thank you for that contribution.
When you say "seven nations", do you mean seven successive nations? I think I gave a couple of good reasons why they would be in succession rather then simultaneous. On that understanding- yes, why not?

On the subject of the 4 Horsemen, I've already done a couple of threads.
4 Horsemen-why?
This one tried to explain why they would be sent.

4 Horsemen
This one was examining what the experience would look like.

I was arguing that they would come together to bring a major world-catastrophe.

The four beasts in Revelation ch4-6 represent the power of God, so if the coronation chair has anything to do with that, it represents the power of God. But as far as I can tell from your picture, the beasts under the coronation chair are all lions. The four beasts in Revelation are different, so they don't match.

PS- In my theory, I identified the crowned "first horseman" with "plague".






[edit on 21-7-2010 by DISRAELI]

reply to post by DISRAELI


I will check out your threads. I did think of the difference in the beasts. These are lions but the Queen is heavily steeped in associations with Illuminati and the occult. Were you building such a chair you might divert a little from the description straight out of revelations so as not to reveal your allegiances...it is significant. Can't really say why it struck me.
I am thinking now the laying of the cornerstone at 132 and Riverside Drive in NYC. Supposedly there lies the Stone of Destiny, placed by Masterbuilder Roerich. Leaders came from all over the world. Was this a significant early "Illuminati" meeting in the US in 1929.
I don't think either Roerich, or the Queen, or the Illuminati per se even began with "bad" intentions...(modifications of DNA aside) they are after world peace through world domination. One could question their integrity and methods, but not the goal.

World peace is the goal of the I AM, Creator also I think but without the strings attached - put there by the Illuminati and powerful rulers of the Earth such as past US Presidents (maybe this one too, who knows ? they imagine this is for the best) and the Queen. The Queen is the leader of the pack from what I understand about the Illuminati - Moravian and Rothschild blood. Dark Light- closely associated with incarnations of Lucifer and Pinar.

They hold some esoteric knowledge that has been concealed and it is about to be revealed - in spite of their attempts to secret it.

I know it sounds crazy...I am perhaps under medicated ...but to me, no crazier than revelations.

From the first link...

Anyway, the gist of the message, either way, is that God is expressing his jealousy for his people by expressing his anger against, taking action against, the oppressors of his people.

Yes this may be what revelations is about. This may be happening again.
Perhaps the four different colors of the horses represent 4 different "races" (varieties or flavors) of mankind on the Earth, red, white, yellow, black.

reply to post by rusethorcain

Thank you for that contribution.

I've seen theories that the Royal Family is high up amongst the Illuminati- and for that matter, I've seen the suggestion that Prince Charles himself is the Beast of Revelation.

But I get the impression that ideas of that kind tend to originate outside Britain- it's very difficult for English-born people to take them seriously. This is partly because we're too familiar with these people- they're just cosy members of the family. Whereas outsiders, like Americans, are more likely to see them as exotic beings.

When the Queen went to speak at the UN recently, it was mainly the Americans etc who were speculating about what dramatic messages she might announce to the world, and the Britons who were saying "It's just a social event- she'll give a few platitudes about world peace and then go home again." And who was proved right?

Perhaps there is more going on behind the scenes. But I suspect that people over-estimate their power.

Originally posted by rusethorcain

Yes this may be what revelations is about. This may be happening again.
Perhaps the four different colors of the horses represent 4 different "races" (varieties or flavors) of mankind on the Earth, red, white, yellow, black.

I must admit that I didn't even attempt a theory on what the colours represented. Different theories are around, but they're all very speculative.
So I just said something like- different-coloured horses in Zechariah, different-coloured horses in Revelation, that shows they're the same kind of horses- and left it at that. The field is open.

please go to this thread...the vid in this thread explains all of this perfectly. how the EU is preparing for the antichrist....one of the best vids ive seen on this subject and everything the EU is doing lines up perfectly with prophecy.

NWO - Seat of Satan - Revived Roman Empire
www.abovetopsecret.com...



[edit on 21-7-2010 by Funkydung]

Originally posted by Funkydung
please go to this thread...the vid in this thread explains all of this perfectly.

NWO - Seat of Satan - Revived Roman Empire
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Thank you for that contribution.
Yes, I saw that thread when you originally put it up.
I even posted on it, and attached a link to my own explanation of the "Seat of Satan".
But does that video incorporate a point which I think is very important, viz. that the reign of the Beast does not come until after the great world-catastrophe of ch6?

reply to post by DISRAELI

To recapitulate a point which may be topical;
That the rise of the Beast, in my interpretation of these chapters, comes out of (by means of the world's recovery from) the great crisis of the world implied in the "Four Horsemen" episode of ch6

I am now adding a link to my more recent thread on the first chapter of Revelation, which sets the tone for the entire book;

Fear Not

ah this is one of my favorite topics.

ok the first beast in revelations is the roman catholic church. as it reigned supreme from the time a pope was given the his complete power in 538 A.D. until the pope pius iv was captured in 1798, which fulfilled the time a time and half a time prophecy by daniel as a day in prophecy equals a year on earth. 360 x 3.5 = 1260 1798 - 538 = 1260

the second beast that is as a lamb was signifying the US because it was a nation that started as a lamb, as it was seeking to get away from the oppression of the church, but will eventually be the worst of the worst. as it has become in our modern day and age.

so the "false prophet" is the roman catholic church, for it has put itself in place of God on earth, and the beast and final world power in the last times is the US.


for more proof the roman catholic church at one time uprooted (or destroyed) three of the ten horns of itself because three (Heruli, Vandals, and Ostrogoths) did not agree with the path the church was taking.

the beast would also think to change the times and dates. which is why it adopted the Gregorian calendar rather than the jewish calendar of 360 days and change the sabbath worship to pagan SUNday worship.

The US has ruled over the rule with an iron fist as has never been accomplished before and is a mixture of many supreme powers that has come before it.

i dont understand how anyone can deny the bible when it prophesied America and the corruption of the Roman Catholic Church far before it ever happened.

Originally posted by stuncrazy
ok the first beast in revelations is the roman catholic church.

the second beast that is as a lamb was signifying the US .

so the "false prophet" is the roman catholic church, for it has put itself in place of God on earth,

I think you need to take another look at my arguments that the "first Beast" is not only a world-power, but a world-power which hasn't come into existence yet. This is because it does not arrive until after the "Four Horsemen", which have not happened yet.

Secondly, I have done a separate thread on the "second Beast", in which I argue that it represents an individual, who would be the leader of the world-state represented by the first Beast. The "lamb" image relates to his role as an imitator of Christ-who is, of course, the Lamb.
This argument is outlined in the attached thread;
Great Leader and Antichrist

Finally, I need to observe that your third point I've quoted is at odds with the first two, because Revelation indicates the second Beast as the "false prophet". It is the second Beast's job, in ch13, to make the world worship the first Beast. That doesn't really work as a description of the relationship between the Catholic Church and the US. Where do you see the US putting to death anyone who refuses to worship the Catholic Church?

the four horseman are not and will not be people but rather circumstances. war famine plague and death. all of which are running rampant in our modern day and age, and have been for at least the last 2000 years. the four horseman are only permissions given to Lucifer by God.

by my understanding we are in chpt 13 of rev. the holding back of the winds so that the chosen can be sealed.

the book of revelation has been coming true since the resurrection of Christ.

as for the second beast being an individual... well it can't be, for nowhere in the bible has a beast represented a single person, but always a governing power.

all prophesies follow the same rules and regulations and cannot be taken literal. with that being said the first beast is also signified by the "whore of babylon" and a woman in prophesy always signified a church. for the church of God is the bride.

so we know one thing of the first beast that comes out of the sea(sea signifies people) and that is that it will be a church. it will be a church that proclaims to either do one of two things. one be a church of the one true God, or two will claim to be God itself. both of which the catholic church does. we also know that it will be the great persecutor of the chosen. simple research will also prove this statement about the catholic church.

the whore also wore scarlet and drink from a golden cup of blasphemy. priests often wear scarlet robes and drink from a golden cup during "the Eucharist". the catholic church proclaims salvation through works. (absolutely erroneous statement) they proclaim you cannot go to heaven unless you confess your sins to a priest and receive the Eucharist every week, as well as many other regulations it states you must do to go to heaven.

the catholic church ,more so now than ever, teaches the road to salvation is through Mary, which we all know that there is no way but through Yeshua himself. it also teaches the praying to saints. completely breaking the third commandment of worshiping wooden images. you are also not supposed to make images of things in heaven and worship them. which makes the crucifix an abomination to God. Yeshua is in heaven.

i could go on and on and on about all the things the catholic church does to offend God, but i'll let you have the fun of doing that research.

Originally posted by stuncrazy
as for the second beast being an individual... well it can't be....

the first beast is also signified by the "whore of babylon" ....

so we know one thing of the first beast that comes out of the sea(sea signifies people) and that is that it will be a church...

On the identification of these three characters, the first Beast, the second Beast, and the Harlot;

First point; Since the first Beast comes "out of the sea", it's clearly modelled on the beasts of the vision of Daniel ch7, which also come out of the sea. So our understanding of it needs to be determined by our understanding of the Daniel beasts. The beasts in the Daniel vision are secular, domineering kingdoms- usually identified as Babylon, Medo-Persia, Alexander's empire, and Rome. So it makes sense to understand the first Beast of Revelation as a secular, domineering, kingdom- the "world-state" of the thread title.

Second point; If you're going to identify the Roman Catholic Church as the Harlot of Babylon, this makes it impossible to identify that church with the first Beast, because the Harlot and the first Beast are two entirely different things. This is very clear from the way they are related in ch17
In the first place, the Harlot at the beginning of ch17 is resting upon the seven-headed Beast, the first Beast. That, in itself, makes it clear that there's a distinction between them.
In the second place, the same Beast at the end of the chapter is making war upon the Harlot, trying to destroy her. If the Beast is trying to destroy the Harlot, how can they be the same thing?
It is quite impossible for the Catholic Church to be both the Harlot and the Beast, if they're going to be at war with each other. One or the other, if you like, but not both.

Third point; The relationship between the first Beast and the second Beast makes more sense if you understand the second Beast as an individual than it does with any other interpretation.
In the "Great leader" thread (I've already given you the link) I suggested that the second Beast relates to the first Beast as an emperor relates to an empire, and I used the analogy of Adolf Hitler and the Third Reich.

If you plug those values into the narrative of ch13, what do you get?
"Adolf Hitler exercised all the authority of the Reich in the presence of the Reich"- Yes, that makes sense.
"Adolf Hitler caused people to worship the Reich"- Yes, that makes sense.
"Adolf Hitler put people to death if they did not worship"- Yes, that's one way of putting it.

Now try using your interpretations instead- what happens?
"The USA exercises the authority of the Catholic Church in the Church's presence"- not really happening, is it?
"The USA causes people to worship the Catholic Church"- not really happening, is it?
"The USA puts people to death if they do not worship the Catholic Church"- not really happening, is it?
So your interpretation doesn't actually match what is happening in the descriptions of ch13.

The hostile "prince" described at the end of Daniel is clearly an individual.
The "man of sin" mentioned in 2 Thessalonians is clearly an individual.
This is the person frequently called "the Antichrist", although Revelation doesn't use that term.
Surely this individual is going to be mentioned somewhere in Revelation? If so, where is he?
The obvious solution is that he is represented by the "second Beast" exercising power in the second half of ch13

reply to post by DISRAELI

It is quite impossible for the Catholic Church to be both the Harlot and the Beast, if they're going to be at war with each other.

Not if you believe the church has been infiltrated by the freemasons. This website has a pretty interesting theory.

www.thepopeinred.com...

Personally I'm not willing to trust either side. The catholic church and the freemasons want us to believe one is plotting against the other. Which is the true 'brotherhood'? The ones that never make it to the top of the hierarchy of either institutions if I must say. The original unholy trinity consisted of a Roman Caesar, a Jewish governer and a Arabic King. Hard to say which one is the dragon, false prophet and beast but the pattern is still consistent with today.

reply to post by iamnot


Even on your theory, the Catholic Church can only be one of the two "sides".

I still rather like the formula I've expressed before, as far as the application to John's time is concerned;
Harlot-= Rome the city
First Beast = Rome the empire
Second Beast = the Emperor.
It then becomes a question of finding the right way to apply that formula when interpreting Revelation for the later church.

ill give you this to chew on and tell me what you think.



first the vatican sits on seven hills.


second you are correct in drawing the connection between dan 7 and the first beast of revelations. it is my humble oppinion that the horn on the fourth beast is the birth of the whore of babylon. i believe the fourth beast of danielle and the first beast of rev. are the same, so the first beast must be rome which gave the power to the roman catholic church, and in saying so it is as though rome still rules to this day. (which would be how the whore rides the beast). and as posted in the following thread all roads lead to roam our current system is modeled after rome. people have begun to worship the way of life in america to the extent that if you speak against it you are hated even to the point of becoming a martyr.

thirdly all presidents swear to serve god. the roman catholic church has placed itself on earth as god and thus the president serves the pope. we can all agree that the pope is a very political figure whether or not it is in the limelight. people listen to the pope, and if you don't listen to the pope it can be (maybe not as much in todays day and age as the world is drifting from God) political suicide.

i'll discuss the second beast in the link provided.

sorry i kind of jumped around when writing this so if i need to clarify my point any further please let me know

Originally posted by stuncrazy
thirdly all presidents swear to serve god. the roman catholic church has placed itself on earth as god and thus the president serves the pope.

I assume you got this line of argument out of "All roads lead to Rome".
The idea that the word "God" means "the pope" in legal documents is the kind of absurd, nonsensical, and invalid argument which might come up on that thread.
It has no historical, legal, or rational validity. Somebody has made it up, out of nothing.
The meaning of the word "God" is precisely what the person using the word thinks it means.
The people who wrote the Presidential oath did not think that the word "God" meant the Pope (they were Protestants).
Therefore the word in that oath does not mean the "Pope".
The Presidents swear to serve God, and they mean what the word "God" usually means.

Originally posted by stuncrazy
ill give you this to chew on and tell me what you think.
first the vatican sits on seven hills.
the horn on the fourth beast is the birth of the whore of babylon. i believe the fourth beast of danielle and the first beast of rev. are the same,

My response to all questions on the Harlot of Babylon, and the relationship between Babylon and Rome, is contained in the attached threads;

Harlot Babylon; "The Other Woman"

Harlot Babylon; "Mother of Abominations"

Seven kings and an eighth

Harlot Babylon; "Twinned with Rome"

Harlot Babylon; "Drunk with the blood of the Saints"

reply to post by DISRAELI


I appreciate your in depth commentary regarding the beast. I actually found this by typing something into Google and decided to join because I too have been researching and studying the end time prophecy(ies)

I know the beast is evidently something carnal/man with his institutions etc.., just like what you've described. ]

However, time and again as I study the Bible regarding the harlot/mystery babylon, I keep coming back to the notion that "she" is a spiritual entity, perhaps religious, or even ancient paganism having "crept into" what WAS suppose to be the true and pure religion. I can go into greater detail, but first I just wanted to get this out there and hopefully read your view of it.

Thanks so much!