So my Iraq/Afghan war veteran good friend just killed himself.....

I don't think it's voodoo or chemicals.. It's just facing the "truth".
They are forced to see people dieing,etc. and it's really hard for their mind.

Simple as that, for me.
Sorry for you friend, may he RIP.

PTSD is a real thing, but people that act like the soldiers aren't being used as lab rats and chemical sponges are ignorant fools.

reply to post by dominicus


Trust me, just seeing the death, losing friends and comrades. Being scared for your life and not showing it, holding it all in, not letting them see you sweat and even worse killing other human beings for any reason is more than enough to drive someone to serious mental illness.

If you have friends who went to combat, saw combat, killed or witnessed death or loss of friends there is probably a ticking time bomb in there that if not dealt with will eventually come to light.

Not all will kill themselves, no one will react the same way but I guarantee you not one of those soldiers who have experienced the above will ever be the person they were before they left.

All military people who are involved in any of the above should have counseling for a long time for free even when they don't show the need.

It is the hidden expense of war. Whats worse is nearly none of them will admit to needing help or even know they have a problem that can be helped. They are afraid of reprisal from the military and for good reason. We become good at hiding.

Originally posted by alaskan
PTSD is a real thing, but people that act like the soldiers aren't being used as lab rats and chemical sponges are ignorant fools.

Of course they are. They always have been given untested drugs to allow them to withstand desert heat and not eat or sleep for days. Soldiers aren't cared about, they are just a tool. Used and thrown away.

My dad was in the Gulf War and he actually has official statements or paperwork that says the Army was testing experimental weapons while the troops were in the close vicinity. Not too long ago my dad saw one of his old friends from his unit and he had damage to his nervous system and had uncontrolable shaking.

I am so sorry to hear that we have lost another veteran to what was likely PTSD, and the general pain of having served in a war.

I am so sorry that you lost a childhood friend.

I am just so very sorry about it all.

Blessings to you in your time of grief, and blessings to his family as well.

Suicide is a very sad way of leaving...

Really sorry to hear this.

God works in mysterious ways.


What I really think is, there is no way for us to really know, or understand,

except if you're a soldier who kills innocent people.

He is a casualty of war, because in his head war was still going on.

And I'd like to think, whoever kills , hurts , terrorises , or steals innocent

people , will suffer greatly , I wish it would be a rule of life.

With no disrespect....Karma's a bitch hein ?

Jesus, Mary and Joseph, the ignorance I read on this board is just mindbloggling.

First of all, sorry about your friend. That has to be rough for all involved.

Second, have any of you rocket scientist heard of anything called, "Survivor's guilt"? Just part and parcel of the whole PTSD gig. Guy goes to war, makes it thru without being killed or wounded, then sits around thinking, "why me?"

This isn't anything new. It's not because of Iraq, A-stan, or George Bush. It's happened to all vets in all wars, regardless of their country. Some guys work thru it, some guys can't. It sucks, but I think that they are finally starting to understand that vets might need some help when they get back. It ain't perfect, but it's better than nothing.

And for all of you that responded with things like, "It's because he was killing women and children" or "karma's a bitch". How about spending some time in the Beaten Zone and then come here running your suck. And before you respond, google what a "beaten zone" is, because I'm willing to bet you don't have a single clue.

Run along and draw fire.

Originally posted by signal2noise

And for all of you that responded with things like, "It's because he was killing women and children" or "karma's a bitch". How about spending some time in the Beaten Zone and then come here running your suck. And before you respond, google what a "beaten zone" is, because I'm willing to bet you don't have a single clue.

Run along and draw fire.

The thing is that I'm intelligent enough to not participate in a war.

reply to post by SLAYER69


Wow, talk about a grave reality, that is some perspective. It is sad these stats are representative of the new century, shouldn't the number's be going down as civilization evolves and better themselves. I guess that's a pipe dream in the midst of multiple wars, a tanking economy and leaders that put profits before people.

Here's some similar info:

The Pentagon officially announced the released MHAT-V on March 6, posting a “redacted” edition online at the Army Medicine website. As for the report itself, a grim graph at the opening of the section on suicides tells the story:


Since MHAT-IV the Pentagon has learned more about the circumstances of many of what are termed “in theater” suicides–that is, suicides among troops in Iraq. As might be expected it is the middle months of a deployment that are the most dangerous as the following graph shows.


A graph in the report shows the relationship between deployment length and mental health.


This chart is based on fifteen month cycle, but what of the soldier who is on his or her third or fourth tour of duty in Iraq? Another chart answers that question.

www.wsws.org...

I hope enough resources reach our veterans, HERE IS A SITE FOR DONATIONS - returningveterans.org... 503-933-4996

Peace and blessings


[edit on 27-6-2010 by speculativeoptimist]

I just got back and where do any of you get that we are over there killing innocent people? Hell, we were not even allowed to kill those who we all knew needed killing! The obama rules of engagement are so stupid it gets us killed!! I seen it first hand.
When you’re gone for months at a time working at whatever for 12-14 hours and day and dealing with any and everything coming home is hard. After you get shot at perform the impossible and then you have to hear so-called normal people problems like most of you here have its plays with you mind. Do any of you realize how stupid and insignificant one of YOUR hard day sounds after coming home from a combat zone? Or how you still get upset from a driving incident sounds or that YOU had a hard day where you had stress?
Returning vets have a few problems adjusting when they get back but for reasons most don’t understand. Give them some space and watch for signs that it maybe something more, call their command and have them intervene.
But I’m sorry for your loss, we have no business being in the middle east if we are not there to fight to win.

Originally posted by The_Zomar
The thing is that I'm intelligent enough to not participate in a war.

Intelligent?

Then why are you posting on this thread, since you have no idea about what's going on in Iraq or A-stan, or life in the military in general?

Slayer is right; run along and play with your Xbox. Big people are talking.

How incredibly sad, I'm so sorry to hear your news, sincere sympathies to yourself, family and friends. x

Already during this war there has been so many, and we all know there will be more.

PTSD is an interesting subject, when the mind becomes traumatized it has great difficulty passing signals between the hemispheres of the brain, which is why the experiences cannot be processed, and people tend to get caught in the never ending loop which continually plays round in their minds.

New therapies are emerging...eye movements can help the signals across the brain, looking left and right in times of re-living the trauma can help with this.

The problem isn't living with a memory, it is the mind not being able to process it.

There are many people in the psyche field really wanting to help. Lots of organisation's are starting to help these folk, if there is anyone out there, now or needs help in the future, I urge you....as a last chance to give it a try.

I lost someone too and it is incredibly tragic to watch someone destroy themselves.

much love,

O
xx

Some people are just ill, Christ will raise those on the last day.

reply to post by speculativeoptimist


I just read the article . . .

As many as 18 veterans of American wars take their own lives in the United States every day—more than 6,500 per year. Vietnam veteran advocates have estimated that suicide ultimately killed more of the soldiers who fought in that conflict than the actual war itself. The same trend is now surfacing among the veterans of Afghanistan and Iraq.

What a frightening and sad statistic.

Originally posted by oxford
What a frightening and sad statistic.

You're right. It is a sad statistic.

I wonder how much stems from the civilian population screaming at them that they are "tools", "murderers" and "Nazis", and they don't have any idea what vets go thru when deployed?

(edited my crappy spelling)

[edit on 27-6-2010 by signal2noise]

I'm so sorry for your loss.

It's no consolation at all to know you, your friend, and the family he's left behind are not alone. It's a sad consequence of war we've seen in recent history since WWI, and probably even before, though it wasn't so focused on. It's had many names, but at its root, I guess it stems from inner conflict and conscience.

There's probably a lot of validity in what you are thinking. Exposure to things like depleted uranium and vaccines we don't know the contents of isn't a good thing. There are many, many stories of vets from the Middle East getting sick, very sick and even dying. The military might acknowledge now, through the efforts of some, that yes, something happened over there, but they'll never cop to exactly what.

War never ends for the participants and victims on either side.

Whether it becomes mental and physical suffering or manifests as hate and resentment. They live with the consequences forever, and so by they way do their families. It effects us all for generations.

The military does provide assistance for those returning from war who are having issues dealing with what they've been through. From my friends and family who have been there, I've heard that some branches are better than others at identifying and focusing on it. But people in pain do not always get the help they need. Sometimes it takes too long. Sometimes they just don't want to deal with it and choose silent suffering. Many drink or take drugs to excess. To dull the memories, I guess.

If you have friends who have been to war, watch for the signs. They're available online. And encourage them to seek help...from the military or somewhere. Again, sorry for your loss.

Peace.

I really don't think the insensitive comments help, these people have enough to deal with, without their own countrymen turning on them. Its the politicians that send them.

Most of the serving folks I've met don't support this war themselves, they don't come out and say it, but most are like...is this worth it?

I can't reconcile it in my own mind still because I can't understand 'why' they flew those planes into the towers that day. But that is a whole other story eh.

reply to post by dominicus


I am sorry to hear about the loss of your friend, and one of our soldiers. I hope he has found the peace in death that he could not find while in life.

Have you considered the psychological approach to this tragedy? Just because you say your friend had children to care for, an ex-wife around, and a support group of local friends and family does not mean that it was enough to make him reconsider his intended actions.

Depression, of all kinds, is a horrible condition. You have to be privy to it to fully understand the impact it has on your psychological condition. Even with family, and friends, and support groups, and check-ins from those concerned who love you, the mentality can still overcome you.

I speak from experience.

So before you try to use the death of a valiant soldier as a soap-box for paranoia, consider your actions. This was your friend, since childhood. A man who went to war and saw some of the worst of the worst things out there right now.

Would he want his memory to be attached to the belief that Islamic terrorists living in the Middle East are using Voodoo curses? Especially since Islam and Voudun are completely different religious philosophies.

Would he want people to think it had to be some government experiment conducted on him? Considering such would take the blame off of the real culprit: the lack of compassion our world has for psychological disorders and those who suffer from them.

Worst of all, would your friend want to be the "spirit" spearheading a charge against vaccinations that might well have saved his life numerous times before he took it himself? Would you want someone using you to spearhead a campaign against something that has saved YOUR life?

This was a soldier, one of the world's great defenders. Let's honor his memory for what he did, and use his example to spearhead campaigns towards understanding what really caused this. Not to feed paranoia.

~ Wandering Scribe

reply to post by dominicus

Man, that's really sad. I feel sorry for his children especially.

I think/know that some Vets suffer depression over the loss of fellow soldiers. Some of their best buddies died right next to them. Those memories last forever. They feel guilty that they lived instead of their buddies.

Divorce is traumatic especially with children involved. The USA is in shambles and getting worse every day. Add the memories of war and the joy of living is gone.

My condolences.