The Filesharing Conspiracy

As usual your post said absolutely nothing, not a surprise. I'm not telling you who I am, or what exactly I do, I'm not whining, but I see others who have a cause for concern. So just because I'm not under pressure doesn't mean I shouldn't say anything. I've quoted the only thing you said worth discussing.

Originally posted by v3_exceedAgain, you miss the merits of those sites and claim they enable thieves.

I missed the merits of those sites, what merits do they have exactly? They enable people to steal, that is it. The donations go to the site itself, not to the people who created the stuff they have on the site. Get it now? Probably not.

Go torrent Idiocracy, you might learn something, hell you're probably in it.

Originally posted by DGFenrir

Originally posted by NoHierarchy
Piracy is actually GOOD for the poor/common man who simply cannot AFFORD to spend money on music, books, and other creations of culture.

If they can't afford then they don't get to use it. Nobody is forcing people to download music or movies illegaly. If you don't have the money for that kind of entertainment then you gotta entertain yourself on your own.

Why do the pirates always sound like they are being forced to download software illegaly? Is there some shady guy behind them with a gun pointed at them saying: "Download it or else..!"??

[edit on 27/6/2010 by DGFenrir]

LOL, you just dont get it!!

this is the freaking conspiracy: people dont have access to information because they dont have enough money to access it, so they get dumber, pissed off, easy to control, among other things

if everybody had money to buy a computer, access to the internet, softwares, access to tv, access to music, access to movies, access to books, access to games, access to specialized megazine, access to trainning materials, access to courses, access to ...

the world would be a better place with people smarter

that 95% of the world population dont have the money to access all those features I just wrote







[edit on 27/6/10 by Faiol]

Originally posted by SaturnFX
Again..anyone whom is for piracy...please list all the things you give away for free instead of working to make rent.

Communism is great until it effects your stuff, aye?

I agree somewhat with what you're saying but you might be 10 years too late in saying it. The new generation is way beyond the point of worrying about it.

Originally posted by Unium

'' Always pay for music that you want ; but here's a radio and some cassette tapes/ CD's in case you want to record them ''

Isn't that stealing ? Is recording a song on the radio a form of copyright infrigement, as i haven't paid for it ?

'' It's illegal to download movies and films, but here's a Television and some VHS tapes/DVD's in case you might want to re-watch them ''

Yep, thats the Conspiracy idea. "Stealing is illegal, but hey, we`ll make it really easy for you to do so"

Nice examples

Originally posted by Faiol
this is the freaking conspiracy: people dont have access to information because they dont have enough money to access it, so they get dumber, pissed off, easy to control, among other things

Could you please elaborate on that? People don't need to access those 1000's MP3 files or 100's of movies. Money is not the problem here. People just don't know how to entertain themself without the virtual world.

You don't need to access all of those thing you named. There are other ways for you to entertain yourself. Music, movies and video games are not a necessity. And besides, nowadays there are plenty of alternatives for the paid content. You can legally listen to most music on Youtube, the artists themself or their publishers, upload videos with their music there. The youtube ads provide their income there. There are free video games. Sure the paid games are better but that's the reason you have to pay for them. The same with your computers operating system. Can't afford Windows? Use Linux instead. You can't play 99,99% of video games on it but if you want to then you have to cough up some cash.

[edit on 27/6/2010 by DGFenrir]

Originally posted by Goathief
People just like yourself are to blame for the closure of that shop by not buying enough when you can steal it elsewhere. If a shop opened near you selling Hard Dance, would you delete ALL the files you have downloaded and buy the music on CD/Vinyl from there? No, you wouldn't.

Small, independet shops get closed down because of Internet shops. Simple as that, online shopping is the future.
I haven't been to a record store or a big electronic store like Saturn (german store chain) in years. Everything i buy, i buy online, be it Amazon, merchandise shops, ebay or whatever. Why?
Because:
- You get what you want, i don't know how many times i went into stores searching for a music record. I remember one time, where i wanted to buy a new album, i had to fight through 5 stores, until i found it.
- It's cheaper. Way cheaper, if you think about how much money you may spend to get to such an store and then have to pay the prices...I don't know how much money i saved on Amazon, it was a lot and since they have the Marketplace, where other sellers sell their products, it's just awesome. For example i bought Allman Brothers - At Filmore East in the Deluxe Edition completely new for just 5€, Amazon themself wanted 25,99€

Two good reasons. Yeah, it may be bad for smaller shops, but they got destroyed years ago from big chains. Internet is just the next step.


As for piracy: Quality stuff will always sell. There's a reason why Pink Floyd's Dark Side of the Moon after 37 years on the market, still sells around 1 million copies every year. There must be a reason why other classic album still sell like crazy. Despite all the "i can download it" thinking.
Some people even buy great albums two or three times on different formats or in remastered form.
Same with movies, same with books, same with games.

What doesn't sell or quickly fade away is all the cheap # they (labels) try to sell. Record labels spend millions to produce and promote cheap artists who aren't even musicians. Maybe some teens buy it, the album comes into the charts for a week and disappears because the music is just bad. Then the label will cry around that piracy is bad and the reason for the failure of the record. Really? Does anyone really believe this? If so, then why there are albums who sell even today the big numbers?

Same with movies. You always hear how fast you can see a movie online for free, while it is still running in theatres. If so, then why was Avatar such a big hit? Why has Toy Story 3 made already over 326 millions in just a week worldwide?

Same with Games, why was GTA 4 such a big success for Rockstar, when it was the most downloaded game 2008? How can that be, that when 4 million people illegaly downloaded that game, it also made 500 million dollars in first week revenue?

I'm not saying that all of that was quality stuff (Avatar certainly wasn't) but it prooves that even in the "dark age of piracy" you can make millions upon millions of dollars.

And then you have to think about, why those companies that produce the stuff don't make much money. They throw their money out of the window and cry. They spend lots of money for the wages of their managers, for the "stars", to fight piracy (which wasn't a success, despite the industries spend hundreds of millions of dollars) and so on. And of course because they only see their "new stars", which mostly suck and therefore don't sell.

Piracy in some form can be good. Without downloading music and movies i certainly wouldn't have bought nearly 1000 CDs and over 400 DVDs, because some of the stuff is rather unknown, won't get played on radio or promoted in any form.
Of course it's not good if somebody only downloads and never buys or download and sell the stuff, but you'll never beat those problems. People copied and sold copies all the time. They did it in the 60's, in the 70's and every other decade and it hasn't changed: You lose audio quality if you record a vinly onto a cassette and you lose quality if you rip a CD into MP3.

Prices are another factor, why games maybe really cheap today, i just look at DVDs. For example, when they released the Seasons of the original Star Trek Series they wanted 100€ for one season. 100€! All other TV series on DVD get sold for 20-30€ or even cheaper.
Same with the Star Trek Movies, they released them as Collector Editions and wanted 24,95€ for one movie at the same time you could get the older releases (no Bonus Material, but who cares?) for just 5,99. What would you buy? I bought of course the older releases.

Originally posted by subject x

If/when it becomes impossible to make any money from mass-produced "art", the only recourse will be to go back to the roots-live performances.

Many of the popular "artists" today, and even more in the future if things continue as they are, probably can't do it live. No copy/paste, no 57 takes to get it right, no creative editing to turn a turd into something marketable.

The people who can get up in front of people and create/entertain will be in demand.
Live music, live theater, even story tellers will make a comeback, because no-one will want to waste their time recording, filming, or writing books when there's no money to be made.

At least, that's what I hope will happen...

You might be right. Stuff that cant be offered over a computer screen - namely a persons energy and presence and live performance - will be valued again as people grow tired of copy and pasta.

Very interesting point.

reply to post by DGFenrir


man I dont have the time now to explain

to be quick, read again, I edited my other post

INTERNET PIRACY is not just about entertainment, thats your mistake, thinking that everything avaliable in the internet is just some teen movie or songs

people need access to information as general to become smarter, softwares to help their learning process, books, training courses ... if they dont have the money to do it, they should have the right to access anyway

its amazing that in your head, you just think piracy as a way to entertain, instead of a necessity to improve your capabilities as a human being, worker ... whatever

how can you expect people to buy books and all those things available in the piracy world, if they dont have enough money to pay for their freaking basic needs

[edit on 27/6/10 by Faiol]

So you'd rather have poor people spend their money on entertainment or food? this will mean that most poor people will chose the obvious of the two, food.

I am all for supporting the artists, actors and musicians but I can't afford to infest in them ALL, let's say I want to see a movie, I can buy it for 20 bucks and be dissapointed, I can rent it, like it and not own it unless I fork another 20 bucks for a movie I have already seen OR I could download it, like it so much I buy it on DVD...

Recently I downloaded the game Spore to try it out, since it was a illegitimate copy I didn't have access to online services and since I like it so much guess what, I bought it! and the 2 expansions.

Downloading is also alot more convenient, free downloading allows you not to have to hassle with payment screens and such.

Look at another aspect of the exploitation of people using software, millions are hooked on the game World of Warcraft, paying monthly subscriptions, buying expansions and spending who knows how much on merchandise.

The mass media is making a killing off of us, being able to afford riches we can only dream of and now that a few people are downloading illegally

Originally posted by rival

Here's how I want you to look at file sharing, if you believe that it's okay
to share files that you have purchased.

Imagine going to a show by a local band who is selling CD's during
their show. The price for their CD is five dollars. But, after the show an
~entrepreneur~ is in the parking lot selling duplicate CD's for two dollars.
His argument--I bought and paid for it. It's mine--I can sell it, copy it,
give it away for free, or sell copies if I want to---IT'S MINE.

How about an accurate analogy? Imagine you have gone to a concert. After the live show the band is selling cd's for 5$ each. There is a limited supply of the physical media, and a long line up (inconvenience to acquire, or maybe you couldn't get tickets at all) So you brave the line up and by the time you get to the front, their sold out.

Out in the parking lot, there is a machine that lets you plug into it with your usb drive and obtain a dubious copy for FREE..true you might also get a virus, might be a really crappy copy, you don't know but it's free.

Nobody is making HUGE $$ off of piracy in your analogy one person is benefiting financially, but on the internet each person can choose to buy or try or go to their local HMV and get a copy..if its in stock.

If your going to present a slanted side of things, try and present it accurately.

..Ex

Originally posted by Skyfloating
Yep, thats the Conspiracy idea. "Stealing is illegal, but hey, we`ll make it really easy for you to do so"

Nice examples

I don't know how it is in other countries, but in Germany we have a thing called "GEMA", a performance rights organisation. I guess you can compare them to the RIAA.
Everytime you bought audio cassettes, video cassettes or magnetic bands, GEMA received something of the money and shared that with the record/movie companies and so on. So it was "okay" because whatever you did with those tapes, the companies got money.

They also tried it with CD-Rs years ago when they released those "CD-R for Audio", they were more expensive, because of the GEMA charge. Nobody bought them of course.
But that was a reason, why in Germany nobody ever said anything if you recorded stuff from radio or TV and if you copied a commercial album or movie, nobody said anything because "through copying you lose quality" so it was ok.
In Germany we had a law that was now ruled out, that said, you can copy a bought music album (or movie) and make 7 copies to give them out to friends. A really weird rule if you think about.

Excellent post Skyfloating!

I, like many others, have downloaded many things opposed to paying for it. But, I do agree with you entirely. As a musician myself, I can see the need for people to stop stealing and actually purchase certain products. The younger me would not spend a dime on anything really. I'd simply download it if I can. However, I've grown up and see things in a slightly different light! I pay for what I can afford to pay for! So, yes, I still download a few things online for no cost. Some, being free by the manufacturer, and others are stolen.

From the conspiracy side of things...I'm not sure if there is one. But, the idea isn't as far-fetched as some would consider it to be. Let's just say that I won't be surprised if what you proposed was in fact the case!

When it comes to literature...I absolutely hate to read anything from a computer screen...especially books. I purchase all my books! I've got many books on philosophy, health, self-defense, history...all in pdf format and have had them for years...and haven't ever finished one of these books! I can't bring myself to read to such an extent from a screen. I purchase many books from amazon, and ofcourse, you have the option of the downloading a kindle version(soft copy), which is a lot cheaper and saves on shipping as well...but, I still prefer paperback(hard copy) and will continue to purchase this way!

But that's only because there is an unwritten law amongst video gamers. A universal understanding that most follow. And that is: that if a game is good, you buy it after you pirate!

Its nice when a culture or motto of Integrity develops without it having to be enforced by law. Humans being good for the sake of good.

Originally posted by TylerKing
Exactly. All of the starving artists would love to give their work away for free but we don't live in la-la land (or on everyone else's taxes) like so many of the posters on here do. Filesharing art and literature is honestly just as evil, it's stealing from the poor, and the gee-whiz please donate crap doesn't work in the real world.

dude...am i taking crazy pills? or are you just not listening to anyone but yourself? one more time:
IT WORKS, I DO IT FOR A LIVING. I GIVE MY MUSIC AWAY FOR FREE EVERY SINGLE DAY.
to ADD to that, its not like i live in my mothers basement either. i live in seattle and have an apartment, pay my bills and taxes just like everyone else, and i dont need a McJob to make ends meet. its not about just asking for a freaking hand-out, its creating a product worth buying, while acknowledging that:
1. an mp3 or .avi is not worth anything.
2. for promotional purposes, having your music or any art available for free is INSANELY awesome.
3. every artist has to work for free until they establish themselves.
the problem is a lot of artists are lazy. trying to make a living without putting money into getting a vinyl pressed or having great artwork and a great recording, booking a show-room to showcase your photos that you developed yourself, or time into booking a tour and live on the road for months at a time is NOT THAT ATTRACTIVE to most people when it gets down to actually DOING it.
anybody who has MP3'S as their only product dont deserve my money as much as someone who has a vinyl and t-shirts. the only artists that this would "hurt" are artists who dont have anything worth buying, probably have a job to support what they see as a hobby, and dont really "need" my support. putting intellectual property on the internet and expecting to make a living off a computer file is bad business at best and retardation at worst. you are over-simplifying the situation to the point that your arguments are one-sided and dont make any sense to somebody like me who is actually living in the world you pretend to know about.
edit: added a sentence

[edit on 27-6-2010 by mooseinhisglory]

reply to post by Faiol


And how large percent of pirates are the ones who are trying to educate themself by dowloading an educational ebook or a lecture?? Even for them there are free alternatives.
I'm pretty sure that over 99% of illegal downloads are mp3, movies and video games that are used for entertainment purposes.

Originally posted by Skyfloating

But that's only because there is an unwritten law amongst video gamers. A universal understanding that most follow. And that is: that if a game is good, you buy it after you pirate!

Its nice when a culture or motto of Integrity develops without it having to be enforced by law. Humans being good for the sake of good.

We, gamers, pay for good games because we want to support the developer.

[edit on 27/6/2010 by DGFenrir]

reply to post by awake_and_aware


Ive looked into "Venus Project" and similar models for Utopia. The problem with them is that people would have to agree to those realities and laws on a mass-scale without being forced to agree on them. I love Venus Projects architectural vision though.

In a true capitalistic society, it is the consumers who decide how the market will work and what it will bear. For instance, if people start buying cows for whatever reason, then the dairy-farm industry as we know it would be over, that is of course unless they change to meet the new trend. One way to do this, is to breed the dairy cows being sold. If they can't compete, then they have no place in the market to begin with.

If society as a whole changes, the market needs to change with it and any industry that doesn't change to meet society, probably won't and shouldn't last. It is the market that needs to change to meet society, not the other way around. When it is the other way around and society is forced to conform to the market, you no longer have freedom and capitalism turns into fascism.

It is the artists who need to conform to the market, not the market conforming to the artists. If artists can't change to meet the demand of the market and society as whole, then the market should be able to deal whatever fateful blow that it chooses. Maybe this means the end of professional musicians. Maybe this means that the sale of recorded media will no longer exist and the musicians will have to live off of income from concerts or not succeed at all. Maybe not. What I do know, is that you can't allow the market to dictate the changes of society. If society really demands creative expression through the sale of intellectual property, then the market would change to reflect that demand.

I would have to agree that if artists aren't able to perform their given talents professionally, it would be a great loss to society, however an even greater loss would be that of freedom. Societies change, sometimes for the better and sometimes for the worse but we need to keep our eye on the lowest common denominator... freedom, because once freedom is lost, then nothing else really matters anyway. If artists stopped creating their wonderful works, then I have a sneaky suspicion that the market would change accordingly, most likely through through the sale of their work. A free market will always correct itself.

In a true capitalistic free market, it is society who steers the market, not the other way around. If the people are free to direct the market, then it will always correct itself to reflect the demands of the people.

In our current society, we do not have a free market, though politicians like to use that buzz word as if it was the reality of our current situation. In this day in age, our government allows the market to dictate to society. This is not freedom and never will be. Freedom will never be realized through such a system. We have been indoctrinated to believe that we are free with our current market but we are not and this is why it's so easy to "play along" and form our opinions of what's right or wrong, based on our current markets. If you break everything down to its simplest form, it makes it easier to form an educated opinion on what's right or wrong in regards to our market, what it will bear and to which direction it should move.

--airspoon

Originally posted by mooseinhisglory

Originally posted by TylerKing
Exactly. All of the starving artists would love to give their work away for free but we don't live in la-la land (or on everyone else's taxes) like so many of the posters on here do. Filesharing art and literature is honestly just as evil, it's stealing from the poor, and the gee-whiz please donate crap doesn't work in the real world.

dude...am i taking crazy pills? or are you just not listening to anyone but yourself? one more time:
IT WORKS, I DO IT FOR A LIVING. I GIVE MY MUSIC AWAY FOR FREE EVERY SINGLE DAY.
to ADD to that, its not like i live in my mothers basement either. i live in seattle and have an apartment, pay my bills and taxes just like everyone else, and i dont need a McJob to make ends meet. its not about just asking for a freaking hand-out, its creating a product worth buying, while acknowledging that:
1. an mp3 or .avi is not worth anything.
2. for promotional purposes, having your music or any art available for free is INSANELY awesome.
3. every artist has to work for free until they establish themselves.
the problem is a lot of artists are lazy. trying to make a living without putting money into getting a vinyl pressed or having great artwork and a great recording, booking a show-room to showcase your photos that you developed yourself, or time into booking a tour and live on the road for months at a time is NOT THAT ATTRACTIVE to most people when it gets down to actually DOING it.
anybody who has MP3'S as their only product dont deserve my money as much as someone who has a vinyl and t-shirts. putting intellectual property on the internet and expecting to make a living off a computer file is bad business at best and retardation at worst. you are over-simplifying the situation to the point that your arguments are one-sided and dont make any sense to somebody like me who is actually living in the world you pretend to know about.

Maybe you'd better actually read my posts. I'm not a musician, I work in the art field, there is a difference. Writers don't have concerts, artists like me don't sell things at a bar, so don't act like an expert. Now go do some reading and quit promoting your crummy music. My work goes to stores AND on the net, but the net for me and people like myself is a dead end because of thieves and those who defend them like you. As I said before this isn't affecting me, it does to people I know and maybe me in the future if digital becomes standard over paper, and books and libraries become a memory. Everything I've ever done has been torrented I'm just lucky enough to be able to get around it, and I promote as much as I can. I work every day, all day, so lazy isn't a way I'd describe myself.

reply to post by amrith777

It's absolutely sad how Metallica treats their fans. You're right, Lars has forgotten.

reply to post by LordBucket

I would like to ask you some questions. If you don't mind could you tell me what you do for a living. If you don't work what is your means of support? Are you doing something you love like musicians or songwriter do?