The Filesharing Conspiracy

You know what I say? "You can't put a price on art."

1. There seems to be a big disconnect between the average consumer and the record/movie moguls. Why should studio execs, movie stars, etc. make 25 million dollars a pop When the average Joe is living at close to poverty level. I feel that if these moguls bring their overinflated egos and talents down to Earth, lowering the cost of movies, music, etc. that more people would be inclined to make a purchase.

2. With the increasingly incessant amount of "garbage" media out there, I can't blame people for "trying things out" before they dole out their hard-earned cash on a physical purchase. My ideology is that if you like something enough, buy it.

3. Like it or not, illegal downloading is the best form of advertisement. Whether you agree with the end result or not is a different story however.

As for the conspiracy angle, it seems like a like of work to go through, but stranger things have happened...

I think the piracy thing is merely a result of the crooked laws surrounding property in general.

Why do DeBeers own the diamond mines?

How does one gain ownership like that?

I mean, most people on earth are poor or working class and work full time just to have a roof and some food on the table, while a few, the Owners, hoard billions in bank accounts, and their wealth has cycled through the same circles for millennia.

Can we truly blame a poor kid who has to flip burgers for 6 bucks an hour for downloading the latest 50Cent record?

The kid has grown up in a world that revolves around money, the tool of the Owners to hoard their property, since food rots when hoarded, but metal coins don't.

It is indeed sad that creativity suffers from piracy, but imo a lot more suffering is generated by the laws governing private property.

Your musician buddy needs to pay rent/mortgage... but why?

Because his home is 'owned' by the bank, which 'owns' thousands more like his.

Why is that not considered Theft though?

IMO, that needs to be resolved before we can even dream about solutions to the problem of starving artists due to piracy.

reply to post by Unium


Recording something for your own use isn't illegal but sharing that recording/copy is.

I am one who downloads everything.

it started with music, when half my cds I bought wouldn't play in my cd player because of some protection bullcrap they put on it and i needed a newer cd player to read it....i was mad. all my downloaded stuff worked prefectly tho. I had to download some stuff I already owned to play on my cd player.

then movies. first they used to just advertise other movies, which is fine I do want to see what else is coming out, now im seeing cars and other crap. I can't even figure out if ill have time to go to the movies anymore because who knows when the real movie might start and end?

Also dvds now-a-days you can't skip anything at the start... If I don't want to watch it and I paid for it why can't I skip it? I feel as if im being punished for buying it. so again problem solved, I download it, movie plays right away, a hour and a half movie only takes a hour and a half to watch, im happy.

for example....


I still buy cds from artist I want to support, but honestly their efforts to stop downloading are what caused me to do it. that and the stupid unskipable stuff. And does anyone think photoshop CS5 extended is worth $999?

another point, the delay in which stuff is released, I had CS5 almost 3 months before it got announced it existed.... then there was more wait time before its release. downloaded movies are coming out before their release to theater. so I have to wait to pay for it.

yes it bad for the movie and software industry but downloading offers so much more for free.... will these industries collapse, i could see it in a distant future. but I feel like their being their own worst enemy right now.

I do want to add I pay for netflix, streaming is much easier than downloading, library of thousands of movies, suggestions for movies I might like based on my rating of other movies. see something that downloading doesn't offer, so i pay for it. onlyt thing they need to change is make it so I can stream newer movies, they still only mail-in new movies.

[edit on 27-6-2010 by ohhwataloser]

Originally posted by Conspiracy PianistIMO, that needs to be resolved before we can even dream about solutions to the problem of starving artists due to piracy.

Exactly. All of the starving artists would love to give their work away for free but we don't live in la-la land (or on everyone else's taxes) like so many of the posters on here do. Filesharing art and literature is honestly just as evil, it's stealing from the poor, and the gee-whiz please donate crap doesn't work in the real world.

The final thought from the share crowd seems to be this: "We're miserable and lacking talent or imagination, give me your hard work for free so you can be as miserable as I am. But don't worry this crummy McJob I have has plenty of open positions so we can fight the power together. The power of course is you, the artist, not the people actually running things."

reply to post by illusion987


This is what Star Trek calls a replicator.

If this were to come in to existence on a mass scale, the implications would be world changing. It would shift the balance of power from the few to the many or all of the people. This would make every thing free so the hole money system would be worthless, banks would be rendered useless, Governments would fall, no meed to grow food, and you would be able to dematerialize all of it so there would be no wast. It would change the way we live and breath forever.

Yes in a way we are doing it right now with the internet, is it a way of thing to come could be, but would they let it come to pass, the few at the top would Kill to stop such a device from ever coming into existence.

Anything is possible on this world and so it still could happen.

I would like that freedom I wounder how many here would like it to.

Originally posted by Skyfloating
reply to post by Oozii

 

Ive also found that it it feels very different to go purchase stuff and does do something for ones self-worth and maybe even the appreciation of the product. Some interesting psychological phenomena going on there.

This was a really good , well written thread. It's also one of those things that almost everybody does it or has done it, except this time it actually effects our fellow people.

It's a perfect time for the people to come up with a way for this all to work and for musicians to make the money they deserve.

The record labels are not in control any more and they hate it....so they try to gain as much back as possible in other ways. But once the internet took off and the ways of sharing got going, it was only a matter of time before this happened....

They probably knew but instead of doing anything to prepare for it, they just waited for it to happen and hoped complaining about it would work...

They could have doubled their profits by working with the people, but instead they lost half by working against the people....


The next 5-10 years will be interesting....

I find myself kind of in this situation a bit. I make music, but have yet to release anything, but have enough now where I could release a few cds worth of material..of varies genres...

I'm definitely going to be giving some of it away for free....and probably some of the better songs too...But that is the trade off for getting my name out their versus making money initially.

But the thing is.....there is a ton of money to be made performing live....But I've never done that and since I make all my music on my computer and with a midi keyboard it would be awkward for me to perform live...I mean I know people who do it, and do it real well, but I don't think I'm quite at that level yet..

So I'm not even sure How I would make any money....I'm thinking of just selling a bunch of my cd's for $5.00 each.....

Any body can afford that, and unlike a lot of artists who only put out a small portion of all the songs written, I would be putting out almost every song I've made...

That way, if I did aquire any fans, at least they would have access to all the songs I've ever made, and for a reasonably cheap price...

The overhead cost would be low because I'm not singed and would basically have to copywright the sogns on my cd = about $ 35.00

And find a company to go through for releasing my cd,...

The cost would be far less, and the profit would be a much larger percentage than I would ever get at a bigger record label.

Now while I can't put 500,000 - 1,000,000 $ into advertising, I can put my own time and effort into self promoting via the internet which has Millions of people on it all day every day.

It' not ideal and I won't make a ton of money, but I will have complete control over which music I put out and how much I release...

I mean I could release 4-5 cds a year if I wanted to. You can't get that with a main stream artist...

And the longer I make music, the better I'll get, the better the quality will be.


Great topic
peace

I totally agree with your point about the friend in Europe and netflix. Once netflix starting putting good TV shows and a ton of movies on their watch instantly plan, I pretty much quit downloading most things. I pay 9 bucks a month, to watch what I want, when I want. How hard is that to accomplish?

Why would I want to pay 50-150 bucks a month to watch something when they want to show it? Sure I don't keep up to date on the latest shows, but I really have no desire to. I watch an entire series or season at my own pace. Same with movies.

Books, I will never download. Also will never own an e-reader, I love the touch and smell of a book to much.

I agree that companies need to get on the ball with good distribution methods. For example game companies. I can buy the game at the store for 60 bucks, or I can download it for 60 bucks. Why would I pay the same price and not be able to touch it? I'll keep my physical copy thank you.

I am loving that more TV networks and stations are streaming their shows on their websites. It really helps those of us without cable or satellite. I look forward to the day when that replaces these outdated methods of delivery.

I used to be all for free access until I began making money as a photographer. Then I saw one of my photos being used for promoting a business without my consent. They refused to give me credit or pay me, but they did remove the picture without lawyers getting involved.

People deserve to get paid for their work, or as the OP stated they might just quit doing it.

Originally posted by DJM8507
This is a very well written piece!
I personally feel that we are headed towards a society where the pursuit of bettering ourselves, and humanity will be pinnacle. Where people will research, write, and pursue art out of the love for it and its benefits to everyone. [edit on 27-6-2010 by DJM8507]

That would be great.
But too bad all those who could contribute such works will be too busy working a regular job to support their lives that they will have no time for creative endeavors, or will be unable to financially support their arts and pay the bills.
This is the whole idea behind this thread.

Here is the wisdom summed up:
Illegal filesharing ensures starving artist will surely starve or simply quit being artist.

reply to post by ohhwataloser


If you don't like that long intro then rip the movie from the disc. Takes less time than downloading.
Don't like the price of Photoshop? Use GIMP. Nobody is forcing you to use Photoshop.

[edit on 27/6/2010 by DGFenrir]

Great Thread, excellent topic.

I am a university student going through music school. I am well aware of the future of teh music industry, i plan on teaching and performing in restaurants. The recording industry is collapsing.

First all the first posts about the psychology of the new generation are bang on. We have grown believing that everything should be free, as if its a right. This is a terrible mentality. I have downloaded many things, as have most people. I do feel that the music industry in particular is run terribly.

Celine Dion has the best deal in the music industry today. She makes $1 of off every record sale. For each album which sells for about $15 off of her hard work, she makes $1... Most musicians with a mainstream record deal make about 50 cents. That is criminal, and that is the accepted view.

Believe me, any musician would be greatly appreciative if you downloaded their music, and sent them $5 bucks, because they would be making 500% - 1000% profit.

The music industry will likely collapse.

www.contactmusic.com...

This is coming from a man who promoted the pay what you want technique off of radioheads website.

the reality is, filesharing will go away, when technology collapses and computers become obsolete, until then, filesharing will stay.

a solution to this is going to be the pay what you want technique, and maybe a union torrent program where a monthly fee in implemented, and the revenue is dispersed based on the amount of downloads.

The fact that the filesharing movement has gone along realitively unintereupted should raise cuase for concern. i mean you had metallica vs napster in the early 1990s... but has anything else really happened since then... some research should be done into this.

great thread.

I'm not sure that the problem here, still, is file-sharing or piracy...

The problem is STILL that too many people can't make a decent living in our society. That's an entirely DIFFERENT problem from piracy.

Piracy is actually GOOD for the poor/common man who simply cannot AFFORD to spend money on music, books, and other creations of culture.

And to say that creativity has decreased since file-sharing became big is totally false. The opening up of the world of art, blogs, music, etc. has created a very fertile ground for creations of all sorts and the sharing of them. If anything piracy separates those who are SERIOUS about an art and those who simply want to make a living off of it.

I mean, if somebody likes to write books or make music, sure, making money off it would be fantastic, but it's still a luxury. The real artist doesn't mind starving if he/she is doing what they want. The most joy should come from appreciation of your creations and not necessarily in the form of money. I agree that artists should get reimbursed for their works, however, the current system isn't working and we must work to foster a new system that is independently managed. We are in a rough transition period of mass file-sharing, and I think if we all promote proper ethics we can still donate money to artists (on a more Democratic basis than the record companies will allow) and pay for their LIVE shows while also not wasting half a paycheck on a couple albums/books...

Originally posted by b0sanac
I admit I have done my share of music downloading, however there is a just cause(I know I know, the new mentality)but bear with me. The reason I downloaded music I because the music that I listened to is not available virtually anywhere in the whole of Sydney as far as I am aware.

Stop right there and think about the following for a second;

There used to be an old independent CD shop that sold the genre of music but it has since closed down

Have you got it yet? Shall I spell it out for you?

People just like yourself are to blame for the closure of that shop by not buying enough when you can steal it elsewhere. If a shop opened near you selling Hard Dance, would you delete ALL the files you have downloaded and buy the music on CD/Vinyl from there? No, you wouldn't.

How do I know this? Every single professional Hard Dance artist I know either has music available to purchase for direct download and/or worldwide shipping, be it from their own website or a legitimate third party retailer. What is your excuse for all that music you pirated? You couldn't buy it due to your location?...

All lies.

By the way, when I refer to artists "I know", I mean that in the literal sense because I was (now hesitant to use present tense these days due to the lack of income from music) one. In fact, you might well have some of my hard work in your collection right now!

Originally posted by TylerKing

Is this a joke? Where exactly do these donations go, to the people they enable users to steal from? Because I haven't gotten a single check from either one of those sites.

You have obviously missed the point. Which comes as no surprise because so far all you have contributed to the thread is whining. I haven't heard anything that you claim to have produced, or that you feel would have been worthy of being purchased. Just a lot of, "poor me my stuff was on a torrent site." If your stuff was in fact on a torrent site. Again, you miss the merits of those sites and claim they enable thieves.

See from what I've read here, you sound exactly like the people that produce 3rd and 4th rate movies, and then complain when people don't rave about your stuff. Well the Blair Witch project was a fluke, and not a tutorial on how to do cinematography. Now maybe your a musician, like so many talentless people strumming away on sidewalk markets. I wouldn't throw change at those people, much less buy what they claim is music.

So if your expecting a cheque, you might first try to have a reason to deserve it and not just whine about what you claim was taken from you. If your stuff is worth watching/listening to then you will indeed find a following on the internet and make some money. If what you produce is anything like your attitude it's no wonder no one wants to pay you.

..Ex

Originally posted by Goathief

Originally posted by b0sanac
I admit I have done my share of music downloading, however there is a just cause(I know I know, the new mentality)but bear with me. The reason I downloaded music I because the music that I listened to is not available virtually anywhere in the whole of Sydney as far as I am aware.

Stop right there and think about the following for a second;

There used to be an old independent CD shop that sold the genre of music but it has since closed down

Have you got it yet? Shall I spell it out for you?

People just like yourself are to blame for the closure of that shop by not buying enough when you can steal it elsewhere. If a shop opened near you selling Hard Dance, would you delete ALL the files you have downloaded and buy the music on CD/Vinyl from there? No, you wouldn't.

How do I know this? Every single professional Hard Dance artist I know either has music available to purchase for direct download and/or worldwide shipping, be it from their own website or a legitimate third party retailer. What is your excuse for all that music you pirated? You couldn't buy it due to your location?...

All lies.

By the way, when I refer to artists "I know", I mean that in the literal sense because I was (now hesitant to use present tense these days due to the lack of income from music) one. In fact, you might well have some of my hard work in your collection right now!

I'm a drum n' bass producer myself... and though there IS part of my mind that gets pissed at somebody who pirates my music, MOST of my brain knows they aren't trying to screw me over or steal my works for their own profit, I know that people download music because they enjoy it. And honestly... I'd rather have 1000 people enjoying my music for free and givin me a round of applause than 100 people who paid a fee for it.

PS- Any chance you'll let on your artist alias? I'm curious to know who you are now

[edit on 27-6-2010 by NoHierarchy]

Originally posted by NoHierarchy
Piracy is actually GOOD for the poor/common man who simply cannot AFFORD to spend money on music, books, and other creations of culture.

If they can't afford then they don't get to use it. Nobody is forcing people to download music or movies illegaly. If you don't have the money for that kind of entertainment then you gotta entertain yourself on your own.

Why do the pirates always sound like they are being forced to download software illegaly? Is there some shady guy behind them with a gun pointed at them saying: "Download it or else..!"??

Originally posted by illusion987
Is this illegal? This is exactly what you are doing on your computer when you download a file or software.

Copyright

[edit on 27/6/2010 by DGFenrir]

lol, you are assuming that most people have the money to pay for all their access to information

since people dont have the money to pay for it, they shouldnt be obligated to pay for this basic need

if all the $ in the world were well distributed among people, so, yeah, piracy would be something bad, but since all the money belongs to 1% of the people in this planet, you cant judge somebody for getting information thought illegal ways


its easy to judge if you have all the money in the world, I would like to know what would you do if you didnt have the money to buy all those books you need

Here's how I want you to look at file sharing, if you believe that it's okay
to share files that you have purchased.

Imagine going to a show by a local band who is selling CD's during
their show. The price for their CD is five dollars. But, after the show an
~entrepreneur~ is in the parking lot selling duplicate CD's for two dollars.
His argument--I bought and paid for it. It's mine--I can sell it, copy it,
give it away for free, or sell copies if I want to---IT'S MINE.

BS! It's not yours. You are a thief. You are stealing a source of revenue
that the artist uses to sustain himself while producing the art you love.

I hate that record companies and corporations get rich on the backs of
artists, but at least they provide the artist a service--they take care
of the business details so the artist can concentrate on the art.

You are no better than a thief if you file share. I see no difference
between the person who steals intellectual property, and the person
who breaks-and-enters and steals a guitar.

What file sharing does is steal revenue from creative people.

Keep it up, and continue to think of it as an innocent crime, and the
local band you really like suffers. The innovative software designer suffers,
and eventually the quality of all intellectual property suffers.

reply to post by Faiol


Basic need? WTF?!? You don't need to listen mp3s, watch that movie on your PC or play that video game.