G20 protest violence escalates in Toronto

Originally posted by Blaine91555
reply to post by NoHierarchy

 

So that is why they destroy innocent peoples property? That is why they loot and steal? That is why they light fires and throw rocks and bricks? To get even with the poor guy who owns a Coffee Shop or an evil Bookstore owner? Get real.

If they gain access to the people they claim to be protesting against, what is their plan? To kill them?

I don't like phony violent people and never have.

Perhaps you should study the real thing. People like Martin Luther King or Ghandi? People who changed things, who made a difference.

The F Bomb means nothing to me. I'm not a child.

Who says the property destroyed is owned by INNOCENT people? Who says they go to loot and steal?? And who CARES if a chain-market is stolen from? They light fires and throw bricks to RESIST police brutality!! Do you not see how that can be effective? Because it IS! I'm fairly sure from your statements that you don't know much about protest, civil disobedience, and direct action. It actually can be very effective, and at the LEAST allows people to resist with some dignity and fight.

Listen, I'm not saying that ALL violence is justified, there are a LOT of idiots running around not knowing what they're doing. I can't speak for every one of them because THEY'RE ALL DIFFERENT INDIVIDUALS. However, to marginalize an entire protest or range of resistance tactics simply because you disagree with a few minor actions is just foolish and short-sighted.

Martin Luther King and Gandhi were fantastic and there is ABSOLUTELY something to be learned from them. However, you must realize that the only reason they got what they wanted was BECAUSE they engaged in civil disobedience (regardless of whether it was violent or not). They broke unjust laws in MASSIVE NUMBERS in order to send a message and the cops/government/businesses STILL beat the crap out of them, imprisoned them, and stripped them of their rights and dignity. But you must remember, if there wasn't SOME kind of potential or threat of violence BEHIND the non-violence, then TPTB would have easily just IGNORED them. One of the main reasons the British backed out of India was because Gandhi had INSANE amounts of people behind him, all united, even Hindus and Muslims STOPPED FIGHTING to focus their energies on the British!! Imagine how scared that must have made them, because if they DIDN'T give in to the demands of Gandhi and the Indian peoples, they would have faced MASSIVE backlash that wouldn't have been containable.

Non-violence is 90% of the resistance and is absolutely necessary to promote positive, constructive change in society. However we MUST NOT take other tools off the table, ESPECIALLY when the need for serious self-defense or effective resistance/demonstration is needed.

As for the f-bomb, I bleeped it to begin with... but regardless I think swearing is just as legitimate a conversational habit as anything else if used appropriately. Like for instance, when somebody is p***ed off! There ya go... it just fits sometimes, and it is used to exhibit strong emotion (which I was feeling). And like the quote goes, "I don't trust a man who doesn't swear."

How come every G20 there is chaos and violence. I understand that the people of the world are tired of super powers. Why not fight their country instead. What is the mindset?

Im going to keep puting this up till it gets noticed, its serious stuff! they cauth 3 Cops Posing As "Violent" Protesters!

Originally posted by Izarith
reply to post by NoHierarchy

 

You are absolutely f*ing WRONG.

About what?

Anarchists wear masks in order to hide their identities from POLICE and SURVEILLANCE. For you to deny that extensive surveillance isn't conducted (and unfairly/unconstitutionally) on protesters demonstrates your willful ignorance. The only people that the masks piss off are the cops, and THAT'S GOOD.

When did I say that wearing a mask was Not to hide identity?

I clearly said in my post that a guy with a mask on could be anyone, Plants don't want to get detected just like anarchist don't. Thats a no brainer and the purpose of a mask.

And I'll have you know that one of my heroes is Noam Chomsky the anarchist....But you don't see him wearing a mask hooting and hollering while braking Bank windows, inciting the police and giving them cause to bash peaceful peoples heads in...do you?

Wiki

And just to let you geniuses know Banks have this thing called property damage insurance. They sit Back and laugh while you guys bust their stuff up because they don't even have to pay for the repairs and the anti-protest propaganda with you groups right on the TV screen come free of charge.

I mean for the love of God just think about it....The have corporate plants that emulate what you guys do...should that not be a clear as day sign that you guys are doing something wrong?

Go back to the drawing board because what you guys do does nothing but hurt the cause.

Well yeah, that absolutely is a problem with wearing a mask, anybody can hide themselves within it. However... even people without masks can be cops in disguise... all they must do is take off the uniform and don civilian clothing. So to blame the masks for infiltration is bunk logic. It's a very simple and reasonable tactic in order to avoid being rounded up by police surveillance nets.

Good, one of your heroes SHOULD be Noam Chomsky . The guy really is a genius... it's like nobody can even TOUCH him on the issues, which is why we conveniently never see him on the mainstream media.

You don't see Chomsky out throwing molotovs because he's old, man, hah. He also is doing his part as a scholar, author, and teacher to educate people. And from what I've heard of him, he SUPPORTS resistance movements, both violent and non-violent. Like I said, if cops wanna bash peaceful peoples' heads in, they'll MAKE UP an excuse (as they have before). Plenty of peaceful protests have been attacked by cops in a multitude of ways, and I just think it's ridiculous that we target the people who are FIGHTING BACK instead of focusing on the cops as the violent aggressors (which they typically are).

Just the fact that the banks have to pay property insurance is a hit against their wallet. Of course, yeah it may be a drop in the bucket, perhaps it isn't. BUT they still must react to the costs of doing business the way they do, and good!

And like I said, the Anarchists are your ALLIES. They do not hurt the cause, the media hurts the cause, why don't you spend your time yelling at them instead of fellow protesters?? When Anarchists decide to target something, there is a reason, when cops infiltrate and lead people astray so that they can be prosecuted/beaten is TERRIBLY WRONG, but that doesn't mean they're one in the same. Far from it...

reply to post by DCDAVECLARKE


I just want to let you know that the You Tube video is false. The images of the police dressed as protesters are from Montreal. Not Toronto..... But it would like it to be implied and for no one to check out the facts....

www.cbc.ca...

[edit on 27-6-2010 by worlds_away]

Originally posted by Izarith
reply to post by NoHierarchy

 

So you show your true colors as a fascist...

There is nothing wrong with Fascism, nor Communism, nor Capitalism, nor socialism.

Look at Japan, Japan is the most Fascist countries in the world today, but it cares about it's people so it works.

Look at South Korea, it's definitely one of the most Capitalist countries in the words, but it cares about it's people so it works.

Look at Chile, that one of the world most poorest countries in the world, but it's streets and buildings are 100% more perfect and beautiful that those of New York city. Because That country cares about it's people.

Poland was a great communist country, and many lived in peace after the Russians left. because at one time that country cared about it's people.

But anarchist feed off of the axis of government just Like Cops that bash people's heads in feed of of yours. Uneducated violent Anarchist and tyrannical Governments are like symbiotic soul mates. You need each other and would shrivel up and die with out one another.

Realise that.

You serious, man?

I'm not saying some governments aren't better than others, because some are, regardless of their preferred system. But Jesus, man... these countries are FAR from perfect. There is PLENTY wrong with the systems we have in place. Governments, centralized markets, and the adoption of totalitarian agriculture has created TERRIBLE results for the rights of people and the health of ecosystems. We're facing collapses right now and Japan, South Korea, Chile, and even the Scandinavian countries won't save us from that. Of course, there is something to be learned from governments/markets that actually take CARE of their people, and those methods absolutely SHOULD be adopted if possible. But if we are to have sober and realistic eyes on the long-term then we cannot continue civilization in most of its current forms.

Anarchists don't FEED off of government... perhaps RESISTANCE does. But Anarchists have PLENTY of constructive, beautiful, autonomous, and independent practices/behaviors both ideal and in-practice that have been inhibited and even SHUT DOWN by the establishment. Not to mention, you're using WAY to broad of a brush to paint Anarchists as useless without government. That is a TOTAL oxymoron when you know that Anarchists are calling for the absence of government and a better system in its place. Until that happens, the struggle continues.

Originally posted by Izarith

Originally posted by SoulofBlack

Originally posted by Blaine91555
reply to post by NoHierarchy

 

So that is why they destroy innocent peoples property? That is why they loot and steal? That is why they light fires and throw rocks and bricks? To get even with the poor guy who owns a Coffee Shop or an evil Bookstore owner? Get real.

If they gain access to the people they claim to be protesting against, what is their plan? To kill them?

I don't like phony violent people and never have.

Perhaps you should study the real thing. People like Martin Luther King or Ghandi? People who changed things, who made a difference.

The F Bomb means nothing to me. I'm not a child.

Many in the civil rights era were heard because they had violence toward those who put them down, the most prominent being the black panther party. The list of riots demonstrate that violence results in a more radical change more quickly, whether it be for the best of the country or the worst.

there is a big difference between what the black Panthers, Hoffa and the Teamsters did and what some punk Kids busting windows acomplish.

You may be against "punk kids" but Anarchists are made up of MANY kinds of people. And there is a LONG and EXTREMELY BENEFICIAL history of Anarchists fighting for peoples/workers rights and the protection of the environment. I don't think you realize how key Anarchists have been behind the scenes in some of the greatest victories of the past century or two...

reply to post by DCDAVECLARKE

Quite aware of that my friend. It happened in 2007 in Montebello where police officers infiltrated the crowd to incite violence. My opinion tends right now to side with this theory for the "Black Bloc". Police instigators. When they disappeared and took off their black uniforms it was probably to put their riot gear on and join with the police force.

Just my opinion and I certainly am not always correct.

Originally posted by Izarith

Originally posted by Illusionsaregrander

Originally posted by Izarith

there is a big difference between what the black Panthers, Hoffa and the Teamsters did and what some punk Kids busting windows acomplish.

What would you say that difference is?

Seriously, I am curious as to what you feel makes one form of rioting more effective? Legitimate? I am not even clear how you think they differ qualitatively.

The Black Panthers got the Black community more respect and the government felt the need to create crack coc aine to stop that moment.

If you can not see the difference between the black panthers and the Bloods and the crips they later became, I am at a loss for words.

The Hoffa And teamsters movement got the working man 20 to 40 buck an hour. Cops would not give a teamster a tick in America because of the Respect the movement caused in America for the betterment of the worker and his rights.

If you can not see the difference between Hoffa and the Teamsters and some idiot punk kids wearing masks, I am at a loss for words.

If you can not see the difference between the violence of the American revolution and the violence of Somalian drug lords, I am at a loss for words.

The difference is Organized fighting for the betterment of a mans life and his ability to prosper as it's goal.

Punk anarchist kids burning cars and busting insured windows for three days and then running home to their parents house and getting drunk and dying their hair green to commemorate their weekend extravaganza at the expense of a life time of freedoms lost is not the same thing.

If you can not see that, I am at a loss for words.

[edit on 27-6-2010 by Izarith]

Sounds like you haven't heard of a little thing called COINTELPRO. If you do your research, a lot of black empowerment groups and community groups were INFILTRATED by the government/CIA and purposely fractured, destroyed, and corrupted TOWARDS drugs and gangs. It can be argued that the presence of these gangs, drug problems, and extreme poverty is the result of racist policies by the government to prevent strong black communities from developing. It sounds ridiculous, but that's what we're dealing with. I can't IMAGINE why the government would want to do that in their RIGHT mind, but they did, and it was based on a WRONG minded way of abusing their power to stamp out races and lifestyles they didn't approve of.

Which brings me to my next point- when you whine about SOME Anarchists getting drunk and dying their hair to celebrate a protest, then THAT IS A LIFESTYLE JUDGEMENT. It's not valid whatsoever when arguing the real facts. And the majority of Anarchists DONT dye their hair. You're just spouting off ridiculous generalizations and marginalizations of Anarchists as a bunch of "punk kids gettin drunk breaking stuff and up to NOOOO GOOD" but those are misinformed stereo-types and prejudices. Looks like the propaganda has worked on you...

And who even brought up Somalian drug lords?? What of the Zapatistas? What of the indigenous movement in Latin America? What of the Spanish Revolution? What of the rights movements of the early 20th century (which was heavily influenced by Anarchists)? What of the MYRIAD of resistance movements around the world who are GETTING THINGS DONE and resisting tyrannical entities actively and sticking their necks out for what they believe in?? These "kids" actually CARE about what's going on in the world and THAT ALONE deserves a pat on the back. Would you rather they "peacefully" soup up their car, get stoned every day, and make the rounds at strip-malls and fast food joints till they turn 30?? Christ, man... can you EVER be approving of the young? Speaking of the American Revolution, it was VIOLENT and much of it was started by TEENAGERS and men in their 20's!!! So, what's the problem here?

Originally posted by Ironclad
reply to post by tothetenthpower

 

I'll protest to save the environment, or anything to do with damage done to our earth... But I never got why ppl protest the Wealth of others...

The super ritch are treated as the enemy..., why?

I'm not ritch, in fact I'm nearly penniless, but if I were to win $100m tomorrow or come up with some new product that made me a multi-Billionaire, would I then be considered an enemy?

Isn't capitalism all about giving anyone with the injinuity the chance to become wealthy? So if someone earns their wealth, why are they picked on by those too dumb or lazy to go do it for themselves?

Is it because they don't share their wealth? Why should they? They earned it, so why give any of it to someone who dosen't deserve it?

Can anyone here point out to me why its wrong to become wealthy?

I'm with you on protecting the environment... I think that is probably the MOST IMPORTANT issue we face. However, to argue that there is no class-war going on (and STARTED by the rich against the poor) is misinformed...

Check out the thread I recently started on wealth:

Do the rich DESERVE their money?
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Thought I would post some pictures that are mostly of the violent protesters.

Some of them are quite good.... the pictures.
www.thestar.ca...

reply to post by DCDAVECLARKE


Dude, you're watching videos on youtube.

I was there. Believe me, I saw who started the violence, they were not police officers. Much too young to even be in the police force.

I don't like when police abuse their power either, I'm just stating facts, the truth of what happened.

[edit on 27-6-2010 by Zstugome]

The stupid hoodlums who used the "Black Bloc" tactic are a bunch of pansies. They got everyone in trouble! They ruined it for the people going to protest today as well as yesterday.

Police aren't playing around today, they don't want a repeat of yesterday. Toronto is starting to look like Pittsburgh during the last G8/G20.

I say if you protest show who are. Don't be a coward.

Originally posted by Flatwoods
My impression of these protesters has always been that they are a bunch of spoiled little turds with trust funds who don't have to worry about ever having a real job. This is what they do when school is out because they want to look, and feel, important.

As I said, that's my first impression, although I must admit I've never been very well informed on this issue. So there it is - before you besiege my username with angry posts, I freely admit beforehand that I could be wrong on this. I doubt it though, and this is how I honestly feel about it.

I've always had a deep suspicion that there are those in society who over-idealize the activists of yesteryear, and seek to embody that style of political righteousness. The problem is that there are so few worthy causes left. Because of this dilemma, they have created a few new ones such as climate change, genetically modified food, and this whole G20 business.

That's too bad, because I would love to have fresh, out-of-season strawberries and ultra low cholesterol eggs. I probably would too, if it weren't for these bums.

haha! Spoiled little brats with TRUST FUNDS?!?

You OBVIOUSLY don't know many Anarchists do you??

Originally posted by NoHierarchy

And who even brought up Somalian drug lords?? What of the Zapatistas? What of the indigenous movement in Latin America? What of the Spanish Revolution? What of the rights movements of the early 20th century (which was heavily influenced by Anarchists)? What of the MYRIAD of resistance movements around the world who are GETTING THINGS DONE and resisting tyrannical entities actively and sticking their necks out for what they believe in?? These "kids" actually CARE about what's going on in the world and THAT ALONE deserves a pat on the back. Would you rather they "peacefully" soup up their car, get stoned every day, and make the rounds at strip-malls and fast food joints till they turn 30?? Christ, man... can you EVER be approving of the young? Speaking of the American Revolution, it was VIOLENT and much of it was started by TEENAGERS and men in their 20's!!! So, what's the problem here?

Here's a great example of the point I'm trying to make. I DON'T WANT A VIOLENT REVOLUTION TO TAKE PLACE!! Most folks don't want that kind of thing either. Put put it bluntly, such a revolution would be a very, very bad thing. You think things are bad now? Compare living condition in the US and Canada to those in almost any third world country. We have it better than anyone. The very capitalism these punks are screaming against is what most developing nations are trying desperately to establish, in order to raise their standard of living. I'm sorry, but for me, this childish longing for anarchy has always seemed like a symptom of an over-indulgent, elitist counter-culture.

[edit on 27-6-2010 by Flatwoods]

Originally posted by worlds_away
reply to post by DCDAVECLARKE

 

I just want to let you know that the You Tube video is false. The images of the police dressed as protesters are from Montreal. Not Toronto..... But it would like it to be implied and for no one to check out the facts....

www.cbc.ca...

[edit on 27-6-2010 by worlds_away]

I hear ya, but if they did it 2007?, you can bet your fanny they will do it in 2010

Originally posted by NoHierarchy

haha! Spoiled little brats with TRUST FUNDS?!?

You OBVIOUSLY don't know many Anarchists do you??

Actually, I don't. The only pro-anarchy people I ever knew were the metal-head pot smokers in my high school who liked to scrawl anarchy signs on public property because they thought it was cool. I'm just saying this has always been my impression of anarchists, because it seems a lot of them are college students who do this in their off-time. If I'm wrong, then convince me.



[edit on 27-6-2010 by Flatwoods]

reply to post by DCDAVECLARKE


Um, your YouTube video is false. Plain and simple. Find some sources for what you are trying to prove. Some REAL sources.

Originally posted by FarmerGeneral
reply to post by DCDAVECLARKE

 

Quite aware of that my friend. It happened in 2007 in Montebello where police officers infiltrated the crowd to incite violence. My opinion tends right now to side with this theory for the "Black Bloc". Police instigators. When they disappeared and took off their black uniforms it was probably to put their riot gear on and join with the police force.

Just my opinion and I certainly am not always correct.

I hear ya, but if they did it 2007?, you can bet your fanny they will do it in 2010