G20 protest violence escalates in Toronto

Originally posted by Blaine91555

Agent Provocateurs

quebec police admit going undercover at montebello protests ('tube video)

G20 police 'used undercover men to incite crowds'


so there you have it straight from the MSM's mouth and no amount of smileys will change that these are fact. there's even a thread on ATS: www.abovetopsecret.com...

was actually hard to miss, with 78 flags.

anyway, we don't know exactly what happened, but i'd be especially weary if claims were exaggerated and only police hardware got destroyed, because that way, civil lawsuits wouldn't need to emerge when it all remains behind the blue line.

wouldn't have been the first time, but i presume it's easier to blame it on people who 'belong in the dump

Originally posted by sheepslayer247
reply to post by OuttaTime

 

I do not agree with a violent solution to anything.....but if it was going to happen, I believe that it would have to happen just the way you described. A complete organized militarization of the people.

Lets pretend that this took place, the people met the police with equal force on the streets. Would we be interested in a dialogue with tptb, if they were willing, before a clash took place on the streets? Or if it has come to a citizen militarization, do they just take it over?

I guess what I'm asking is do you believe that our Govt's would fold under the threat of an organized, armed citizen force? Also, would the organizers of the overthrow, most likely of military origins, not use this opportunity to seize power? Either way, you have the threat of a military coup.

That's hard to say. The elitists are notorious for not casting the first volley. They always create the incident and fuel it but they don't throw the first punch. They're a defensive/agressive bunch. That way they can always cite that 'they started it' approach to the problems they create. As far as an American civilian military, they would not allow it, which is just another facet of opression. While an agressive 'revolution' would pull both sides into a huge conflict, it is not desirable to either side. We don't want dead people, and they don't want non-taxpayers. It's like a fight at the schoolyard. 2 teens may be going at it, and as soon as the big hulking 'quiet guy' gets close, the whole fight changes perspective.
But as I queried in my first post, how far are we willing to go to defend our freedoms? It may not be a favorable option, but it would indeed turn the tides of inevitability. Just like the protests going on now, the blackboots primary function is an ominous show of force. If they were met with that exact opposition....
They are playing a massive game of poker here with lives and countries at stake. Now in the final bidding, who is bluffing and who is holding the full house?

It really blows my mind that some people who WERE NOT THERE seem to know what went down.

They seem to know that the group of people that broke away from the peaceful protesters were “agent provocateurs”, instead of mostly pissed off youth hell bent on causing destruction. If they were really agents then where are the people who you want to stand up for you?

Oh yeah! They were the peaceful protesters that had been planning their protests for months with the help of the police. With the full cooperation of the police and the citizens of Canada.

A group of people hell bent on destruction hid inside these crowds and within 5 minutes of the march broke away and started their mission. Which was violence at any cost. Some of these people even smashed the windows of small business. Ummm ok, anarchists?

Some people on here like to have it both ways. They like to believe that there are regular people who will stand up for your rights and protest, yeah!! and some people here have even condoned violence!! But then those same people will tell you the ones committing the violence are agent provocateurs.

And yes, there were police from all over Canada helping in Toronto. Police from Montreal, Edmonton, the OPP and I think Vancouver, and from probably other places as well.

It blows my mind....

Originally posted by Zstugome
Okay guys, I was down in the middle of it all for awhile, watching what was going on. This had nothing to do with protesting NWO or even the G20/G8. It was simply a time for kids who hate cops to do there thing in the cover of the crowd.

I was there! I saw what happened, a lot of juggalos and the like, screaming die pigs, it wasn't about anything other than causing the police force as much damage as possible.

Most of the violence was done by people who have no idea about any of these issues. It was just a time to 'stick it to the pigs' for getting their weed confiscated some other night.

I asked some guy throwing rocks, he had no idea what the g8/g20 was, no idea about any of the issues. He saw it on tv and wanted to go out and raise some hell. That's all it was.

The posters on here are very deluded, I was there, I saw it all.

[edit on 27-6-2010 by Zstugome]

So shocking. You do realize, of course, that plenty of people here won't believe what you say - that there's just no way that riotors can be in the wrong, what with all those mean, nasty rich people visiting their city. It's all staged by the NWO or something like that(notice my sarcasm).

reply to post by Flatwoods


You want to know why he won't be believed? Because he failed utterly to comprehend WHY the youth had to raise hell.

Is it because of weeds? Are you alluding or DARE to allege ALL our youths are fixed on weed?

Why? Ask yourself, Why??? When they could have had done better things to spend an afternoon, being young with raging hormones and so much to enjoy and do.

Just look at the state of our world today. Recessions, unemployment, curtailing of freedoms, incompetent and unrepentant rulers dictating our world and had destroyed the hopes and dreams of our young, reducing them to slaves.

They had enough and their frustrations show, even if they may not yet be matured enough to be as articulate as our conman masters who had been lying and decieving mankind for centuries if not decades!

Do I condone violence? No. Do I condone showing your anger without harming others/ lives? I am only human and know for show what happens when a person say enough is enough!

Originally posted by SeekerofTruth101
reply to post by Flatwoods

 

You want to know why he won't be believed? Because he failed utterly to comprehend WHY the youth had to raise hell.

Is it because of weeds? Are you alluding or DARE to allege ALL our youths are fixed on weed?

Why? Ask yourself, Why??? When they could have had done better things to spend an afternoon, being young with raging hormones and so much to enjoy and do.

Just look at the state of our world today. Recessions, unemployment, curtailing of freedoms, incompetent and unrepentant rulers dictating our world and had destroyed the hopes and dreams of our young, reducing them to slaves.

They had enough and their frustrations show, even if they may not yet be matured enough to be as articulate as our conman masters who had been lying and decieving mankind for centuries if not decades!

Do I condone violence? No. Do I condone showing your anger without harming others/ lives? I am only human and know for show what happens when a person say enough is enough!

In Canada? I mean sometimes it is bad, and some places are always worse than others. From what I’ve seen of Canada my whole life, no one holds you down but yourself.

I am not a slave, my hopes and dreams are not destroyed. And why? I am the only one that can destroy my hopes and dreams and I refuse to let that happen.

My fellow youth that resort to destruction have let themselves be taken down and have let their hopes and dreams be destroyed. They have let someone else win.

reply to post by DISRAELI
It is better than nothing at all. Even if violence is not the way, they are at least passionate about something. All those that don't care, don't want to believe, etc., what a shock it will be for them when the world comes crashing down. I expect it, and I'm sure many out there do. There is nothing anyone can do to stop it. So live each day to the fullest, don't believe the BS you see on TV, that way when the worst comes, at least you will be at peace and not taken off guard and panicing (it will be to late when the blind finally see and understand - they won't have time to appreciate the real treasures in life - children, family, friends, the beautiful plants, trees, animals, insects, sky, stars, the simplest of pleasures).

reply to post by worlds_away


You wanna know why you refused to believed that your humanly hopes and dreams had been destroyed?

It's because you still believe in the BS about 'meritocracy'. It's one huge big lie! Look at the Corporations today. How big is the place at the top? It only fits one.

Does that mean others who cannot reach that exalted position are lazy, stupid, etc, unworthy of meritorcracy? NO!

Look at the huge numbers of graduates toiling away flipping burgers. Are they lazy, stupid, etc? Nope. They had NO OPPORTUNITY, no matter how good they are, for places at the top are limited.

Worse if you are not one of the cronies' son or daughter, the old boys network, to get you up and ahead, which only the super-rich offsprings gets, and a few commoners too just to show the illusion of fair play

You may be the best, but in reality, does that mean others are lousy if they do not sit in your position? Is a century sprint runner who is 2nd a lousy runner compared to the first. when in reality, he is much better than many others in this aspect of athletic field?

My point is - Meritocracy DOES NOT guarantee you a fair and level field to move up. Rather, it is OPPORTUNITIES that will help, and for that to happen, opportunities have to be created. But it is not happening today when the super rich are hoarding up their wealth.

So go on, dream on. May you not be crushed by reality in the end and look longingly at the rocks lying on the ground and at the glass facade your bank that is thumbing you down.

3 cops dressed as demostrators get whats coming to them! go to 3-20 to see the story....

Originally posted by Xcouncil=wisdom
reply to post by NoHierarchy

 

I respect that you are informed and taking and active role in trying to make change.

I do have a problem with your claiming damaging another persons property can be a good thing? Could you please expound on this a little...you come accross as a very intelligent person, I just can't seem to wrap my mind around this veiwpoint as reasonable though.

I'm not being a hater here...I would like a little insight.
Thanks

edit to conceal my ignorance

[edit on 26-6-2010 by Xcouncil=wisdom]

The thing most people don't understand is that Anarchists are typically very TARGETED in what they vandalize. Though I'm sure it's happened (and to the anger of protesters and other Anarchists alike), Anarchists are NOT likely to touch a local, mom n' pop shop. The targets include the most corrupt multi-national corporate chains, banks, and at times government buildings I'm sure. This isn't the end-all-be-all of protest or resistance, but it does its part to demonstrate the legitimate rage towards the establishment and the lack of care about the rights of such 'evil' organizations. I too am concerned that the stress/cleanup will affect the local workers and cleanup/maintenance workers, however, I'm sure the destruction also spurns economic spending FOR such services (if we wanna get all disaster-capitalist about it). The bottom line though is a message, and regardless of its level of aggression and legality, it's a much stronger message than holding a sign amongst a sea of people holding signs. And I feel, in times such as these, where these corporations, banks, and government entities are getting away with TERRIBLE ENDLESS evils against people, communities, and the environment, that people SHOULD be out in the streets raising hell until TPTB stop playing games and start behaving THEMselves.

Desperate times call for desperate measures, and I'm sure everyone (especially on ATS) can agree, these are quite desperate times with serious systemic problems needing to be fixed ASAP.

Originally posted by SeekerofTruth101
reply to post by worlds_away

 

You wanna know why you refused to believed that your humanly hopes and dreams had been destroyed?

It's because you still believe in the BS about 'meritocracy'. It's one huge big lie! Look at the Corporations today. How big is the place at the top? It only fits one.

Does that mean others who cannot reach that exalted position are lazy, stupid, etc, unworthy of meritorcracy? NO!

Look at the huge numbers of graduates toiling away flipping burgers. Are they lazy, stupid, etc? Nope. They had NO OPPORTUNITY, no matter how good they are, for places at the top are limited.

Worse if you are not one of the cronies' son or daughter, the old boys network, to get you up and ahead, which only the super-rich offsprings gets, and a few commoners too just to show the illusion of fair play

You may be the best, but in reality, does that mean others are lousy if they do not sit in your position? Is a century sprint runner who is 2nd a lousy runner compared to the first. when in reality, he is much better than many others in this aspect of athletic field?

My point is - Meritocracy DOES NOT guarantee you a fair and level field to move up. Rather, it is OPPORTUNITIES that will help, and for that to happen, opportunities have to be created. But it is not happening today when the super rich are hoarding up their wealth.

So go on, dream on. May you not be crushed by reality in the end and look longingly at the rocks lying on the ground and at the glass facade your bank that is thumbing you down.

Being at the top (especially of a corporation) is not what I equate with success. So sorry. I will not try to bring them down, I don’t want their job so I’m not gonna try and take it from them. I find happiness elsewhere.

I work hard to be successful at the things that bring me joy: my family, my hobbies, my life, among others things. I will not let people tell me how life is run, especially my life. If I believe there are no opportunities for me there will be none.

Hell, I never said I was best. I try not to think of best or worst, since everyone has different opinions on what is best and worst.

If you think you are at the bottom, you are - in your mind, not in anyone else’s. They are too busy worrying about themselves.

[edit on 27-6-2010 by worlds_away]

It's shocking that young adults have absolutely no idea of the issues going on in the country, or around the world.

I had one of my co workers say to me yesterday "what's with all the news coverage in Toronto?, and what's happening there and who are the G8 and G20".

I've also had a friend say that they weren't aware that there was an oil spill going on in the Gulf, and were surprised that this happened.

It's these sort of sheep that let the Governments and bankers of the world get away with what they do.

Both the friend and my co worker were able to tell me who won the NBA championship and the Stanley Cup, the fact that it was one year to the day since Michael Jackson died, the name of the Survivor winner and the American Idol winner, and the latest scores from the World Cup. Glad they got their priorities right.

[edit on 27-6-2010 by babybunnies]

reply to post by worlds_away


So too are delusions in your mind. Like you said, its your life, not mine to run it for you. Enjoy your enslavement and support of your masters whom are only stripping you bare with each silence and show of support to them.

Peace.

Originally posted by SeekerofTruth101
reply to post by worlds_away

 

So too are delusions in your mind. Like you said, its your life, not mine to run it for you. Enjoy your enslavement and support of your masters whom are only stripping you bare with each silence and show of support to them.

Peace.

Because I stand up for myself you think I am standing up for “my masters”. Who would these “masters” be? And please tell me, how am I enslaved?

I wouldn’t mind if you gave specific answers.

[edit on 27-6-2010 by worlds_away]

Originally posted by vox2442

Originally posted by NoHierarchy
Personally I am TOTALLY WITH these protesters who are making the government and corporate goons shake in their fascist booties. In the resistance, EVERYONE has their part to play, and for other protesters to reject Anarchists is a huge mistake. They are allies and they are some of the most intelligent, informed, and EFFECTIVE protesters out there. Maintain focus on the REAL enemies...

Yeah, shaking in their boots. Sure.

A Starbucks franchise got a window smashed. Starbucks doesn't care. Its a window. The only thing that act accomplishes is making life difficult for the regular people who work in the store.

Spray painting "bomb the banks" on a wall will cost the bank a millionth of a percent of their annual profits to clean off. Really think that the board of directors of a bank is going to lose sleep over that - especially when you consider that the almost complete majority of protestors and demonstrators keeps their money in A BANK?

The only thing the anarchists accomplish these days is ensuring that huge amounts of cash will be spent on security. Furthermore, the reasons for any protest that turns violent can be conveniently ignored by the media in favour of footage of burning police cars. Further to that, the average Jane and Joe will be discouraged from protesting because of the risks of being caught up in violence.

No one is shaking in their boots. The cops love the Anarchists. They justify the massive amounts of overtime and bonus pay they get for demonstrations like this. The Multinationals love the Anarchists. They keep people from looking too closely.

So you don't think the delegates at G20 aren't at least a littttle bit scared of these protests?? I mean they're calling for possible EVACUATION of them... how is that not fear based? I don't even think any of these protesters would actually try to HURT them... I just think even holding the meetings hostage (not the people) and DEMANDING to be heard and DEMANDING serious answers is what they fear. Though I'm sure they understand the protests even less than the media does, thus the ignorant fear and continuance of their blind injustices.

As for Starbucks... I can't say how much "they" care, but it absolutely has SOME effect on their awareness of these protests and the rage/concerns against them (and businesses like them). Though I have the same concern that a broken window will cause more problems for the local workers than the CEO, I still believe in the larger struggle it is acceptable. Local workers SHOULD be more aware of the organizations they work for and the ethics involved (no matter how far removed). Who knows, maybe some of the workers secretly cheered it on! We cannot say for sure... but like I said in a previous reply- simply holding up a sign in a sea of signs will NOT make Starbucks think about ANYTHING they're doing. Vandalism is historically a very clear (even if brash) demonstration of disapproval of a powerful entity and I accept its role in civil disobedience so long as the targets are legit.

Like I said, it's about SENDING A STRONG MESSAGE without hurting anybody. Even the local workers don't lose any money when this happens... I'm sure they could care less in that respect, unless they actually care about the profits of the CEO, in which case I have no patience for their ignorance of the reality of the organizations/systems they do the slave-work for.

reply to post by worlds_away


You said I am not a slave? Just a few questions to get you to ponder some things.

What happens if you don't pay your federal taxes, what happens if you try to get a job without I believe in Canada is called your Social Insurance Card, What happens if you drive a car without a license or insurance, what happens if you try to drill a well for water? Name one thing you can do without the government being involved. The list is getting shorter and shorter by the day.

Just a few points but I think you know what I'm getting at.

Why are you lot ignoring me? the vid i put is very important in my opinion

Originally posted by FarmerGeneral
reply to post by worlds_away

 

You said I am not a slave? Just a few questions to get you to ponder some things.

What happens if you don't pay your federal taxes, what happens if you try to get a job without I believe in Canada is called your Social Insurance Card, What happens if you drive a car without a license or insurance, what happens if you try to drill a well for water? Name one thing you can do without the government being involved. The list is getting shorter and shorter by the day.

Just a few points but I think you know what I'm getting at.

Well what happens if I get a job without a SIN... I would probably not be a citizen here.

What happens if I get into an accident and kill someone without a license or insurance? This is why I take the bus...

If you consider yourself a slave, you are a slave. I don’t. I consider myself a member of society, a contributing member. Mostly society gets along just fine with the rules you described above. There are usually good reasons for them.


edit: I can have sex without the governments approval, I can take a walk, I can phone a friend, I can take a vacation, I can move, I can quit my job, I can be homeless for all I wanted..... Some things the government doesn’t have a say about.

[edit on 27-6-2010 by worlds_away]

reply to post by worlds_away


It's not specific answers you seek, more like something that you can deny so as to be in the security that delusions is a source of solace to you, no matter how much specific answers I can give you.

It's not my job anyway to enlighten you. Only you can do it to yourself. I have no wish to pull the comfortable rug of enslavement off you, if you don't even realised how enslaved you already are.

Have fun and enjoy your life as you wish, while courageous others are doing a job you should be doing - protecting your human future, if not for yourself, at least for your loved ones, before more is taken away from you and for you live worse than a dog to your masters and fed with scraps.

I guess most dogs are happily wagging their tails even with scraps, just as you, a human, had shown. Enjoy.

[edit on 27-6-2010 by SeekerofTruth101]

reply to post by SeekerofTruth101


Why would I ask for specific answers if that is not what I wanted?

Obviously that is what I wanted, and you didn’t deliver.