Reports: Israeli ships attack aid flotilla

Originally posted by Exuberant1
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

 

Hey Proto,

When the UN fails to act, do you think Turkey will invoke Article V?

If they do it would force NATO to either act or break.

If the US disregards its obligations, NATO is broken and new alliances will have to be formed.

We could in fact see a major break up of alliances here as we know it, and a shift of some others.

I think Turkey means business at this point, and is sitting as pretty as it likely is ever going to, if it hopes to force events.

I don't know if the U.S. would disregard it's obligations to Turkey in favor of Israel at this point in time.

In fact it might be counting on Turkey to provide the political cover it will need to end the alliance with Israel.

Though it still seems a bit premature it is possible that they are ready to get the shooting part of World War III under way now.

I wouldn't expect the U.S. to so much align itself with and openly back Turkey in a war with Israel, but I could see it sitting out of it, and Israel being hamstrung from using nuclear weapons because of the massive U.S. Military bases in Turkey.

It could be a very devestating conventional conflict between two regional powers with Israel dependent on spare parts from the U.S. that it may or may not get.

The next arms for hostage deal might be with Israel!

Finally it seems they are not sure about sending new boats.... not without escort anyway.

# 09:34
Gaza flotilla 'undecided' on whether to send extra boats (DPA)

reply to post by thedeadtruth


I may be dangerous. Indoctrinated though, I am not.

You won't hear me shouting obscenities about the Palestinians or calling for the deaths of the innocent. I am not the guy who advocates the Middle East being turned into a glass parking lot.

No, I try to be more objective about things. I try to be guided by logos instead of pathos. I said earlier that Turkey had no case for piracy against Israel, and the UNSC has just released a statement that did not condemn Israel. Just as I expected.

I may be blunt or harsh when pointing out awful realities, but the truth is the truth no matter how immoral or disturbing.

Once being in the military, you should understand that. Its something I have had to learn over my years of service in our military. The world and its history isn't some ideal vision of sunshine and justice. Instead its a place of realpolitik and Machiavellian corruption.

How awesome would it be if we could let go of things like Israel, and the Palestinians, and the U.S.? Imagine we all just realized we were human beings and really liked all the same stuff? Like hot tubs and pizza and pretty girls, and for the girls, handsome guys.

We all just figured out a way for all for all of us to have all those things and just went with it. We didn't care about who had more nukes and who had the fastest hypersonic plane to spy on their neighbors. Really man, that don't matter.

What matters is we are all happy and make each other happy. So screw this blockade that they think is legit and tell them to stuff it. We have more important things to do like play with children and teach them not to hate. We have better things to do like teach each other how to make them awesome foods that we all have missing out on.

Screw this whole system and tell them to stuff it. Let's get together and forget the ways of war and do what we all really want to do. Party.



Sorry, I put the wrong video in there!

[edit on 1-6-2010 by jackflap]

www.unmultimedia.org...

United Nations Radio

Another source

Originally posted by MikeboydUS
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

 

We'll still be propping Iraq up, but they have a larger military than Israel now and will be able to handle about anything, except Kurdish secession.

Yeah, Afghanistan isn't over and the conflict there could end up spreading.

I have a feeling when the time comes, when Israel is no longer needed, we will let the entire Middle East collapse into a nuclear conflagration. Turkey, Iran, Egypt, Saudia Arabia, and all the others. There will be no winners there.

It doesn’t matter how big the Iraqi military is, when the Iraqi central government is a weak one.

Iraq is an amalgamation of various tribes, sects, and ethnicities thrown together hastily when Brittan ended its Middle East Colonial Empire and redrew the maps to reward key oligarchs that had helped them rule in the area.

It took a strong armed tyrant like Hussein to keep Iraq functioning as a cohesive nation. Without him it is nothing but sectarian violence as vendettas and grudges long suppressed can now be carried out in a vacuum created by a weak central government.

It does not matter how big your army is if they refuse to fight for you, if they are busy fighting one another in their off duty hours or even on duty hours.

The only thing that will keep the Iraqi Government functioning is a heavily fortified green zone propped up by U.S. Firepower and Contractors.

We haven’t built a new Embassy so large since we were in Saigon.

That should tell you something right there. Some pretext will be created to allow Obama political cover for staying in Iraq and the truth is at this rate, he is practically already a lame duck, and not necessarily in need of political cover for breaking that promise.

reply to post by ibucketbot


you may get your wish. a guy named sollog predicted terrorism on march 11, about 12 months before the event. spanish train disaster was the result on that date. he was right on a few others and says jerusalem, rome and washington will be nuked. he did not say what order that i recall.

Yeah, I agree. Israel has committed terrible acts in the past. They get by with it all because the US Government backs them. They have a "get-out-of-jail-free" card.

Anyone here not believe in conspiracies yet?

Originally posted by PsykoOps
Too all you people who think "Israel will pay" "action must be taken" etc. This isn't the first time and not the last time. Never has any effective action taken before and never will be.

Sorry about that people, I put the wrong video in my prior post. I meant to put the Coldplay video in there. Silly me, I had too many windows open. I corrected it though and all those sentiments still apply.

The Guardian Calls Israel a "Pariah" state.
2nd line

Nothing has done more to establish Israel's status as a pariah state among its neighbours than the actions of its armed forces. Israel's navy said it met with "pre-planned violence" when it boarded the ships and opened fire in the middle of the night. Their intention was to conduct a mass arrest, but the responsibility for the bloodshed was entirely theirs. Having placed themselves in a situation where they lost control and provoked a riot, the Israeli navy said they were forced to open fire to avoid being lynched. What did the commandos expect pro-Palestinian activists to do once they boarded the ships – invite them aboard for a cup of tea with the captain on the bridge? One of those shot and severely wounded was a Greek captain, who refused medical aid in Israel and demanded to be flown back to Greece. Presumably he, too, was threatening the lives of Israeli naval commandos.

Guardian

I don't know if anyone has seen this yet, but they found a death-list from the Israeli commandos.

SOURCE: www.kawther.info...

Originally posted by ElijahWan
The Guardian Calls Israel a "Pariah" state.
2nd line

Nothing has done more to establish Israel's status as a pariah state among its neighbours than the actions of its armed forces. Israel's navy said it met with "pre-planned violence" when it boarded the ships and opened fire in the middle of the night. Their intention was to conduct a mass arrest, but the responsibility for the bloodshed was entirely theirs. Having placed themselves in a situation where they lost control and provoked a riot, the Israeli navy said they were forced to open fire to avoid being lynched. What did the commandos expect pro-Palestinian activists to do once they boarded the ships – invite them aboard for a cup of tea with the captain on the bridge? One of those shot and severely wounded was a Greek captain, who refused medical aid in Israel and demanded to be flown back to Greece. Presumably he, too, was threatening the lives of Israeli naval commandos.

Guardian

Wow that was not just a strong condemnation by the Guardian but an actual Editorial by the Guardian itself.

That is pretty severe, things are not looking good for Israel presently, not good at all.

It might have finally found the straw that broke the camel's back on this one.

The editorial even calls for recognizing the Hamas government as legitimate regardless of its stance towards Israel.

It gets worse - did you see the link I put up? I mean, there's a lot of proof there. This is coming from a Palestine news source. But a death list? Sheesh.

Originally posted by MikeboydUS

the UNSC has just released a statement that did not condemn Israel. Just as I expected.

I may be blunt or harsh when pointing out awful realities, but the truth is the truth no matter how immoral or disturbing.

You just said:

"the UNSC has just released a statement that did not condemn Israel"

Well! that's just delusional!

You wouldn't know the truth even if it was in front of you me thinks!

Actually, there are now plenty of sources saying: UN condemns Israeli

UN condemns Israeli actions

The UN Security Council today condemned acts that caused the deaths of civilians during an Israeli operation against an aid flotilla heading for Gaza and called for an impartial investigation.

www.irishtimes.com...

Breaking News 8:09am UK, Tuesday June 01, 2010

UN Condemns Israel's Deadly Flotilla Raid

SkyNews

Bloomberg

UN Security Council Condemns Violence in Israeli Raid (Update1)

www.businessweek.com...

U.N. Security Council 'condemns' fatal raid

June 1, 2010 -- Updated 0720 GMT (1520 HKT)

The United Nations Security Council said early Tuesday that it deeply regretted the loss of lives on the humanitarian flotilla bound for Gaza and condemned the pre-dawn raid by Israeli forces a day earlier.

edition.cnn.com...

UN Security Council members have also condemned the attack and urged Israel to end its blockade on the Gaza Strip.

www.couriermail.com.au...

UNITED NATIONS (Reuters) - The U.N. Security Council on Tuesday condemned acts that caused the deaths of civilians during an Israeli operation against an aid flotilla heading for Gaza

thestar.com.my.../2010/6/1/worldupdates/2010-06-01T124412Z_01_NOOTR_RTRMDNC_0_-489557-2&sec=Worldupdates

www.theprovince.com...


[edit on 1-6-2010 by Chevalerous]

reply to post by spy66

Well it has everything to do with how things escalated. These units are trained to eliminate what ever threat that apposes their objectives.

This event would have had a totally different out come if the people aboard the vessel were peaceful.

Reports say the civilians were shot while they were asleep ?

Yet israel apparently believed even THAT wasn't 'peaceful' enough !

reply to post by Jacobcraft


Yes. Glad you saw and posted it (the Kill List )

It was posted earlier, but good for you for bringing it to attention again

Maybe in a page or two, it should be posted again. Because this is a fast moving thread and lots of people miss posts and info

reply to post by Dock9


Thank you Dock9 - would you say with this kill list things are looking good for Israel? I really am concerned now about a domino effect, here...

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler

We could in fact see a major break up of alliances here as we know it, and a shift of some others.

I think Turkey means business at this point, and is sitting as pretty as it likely is ever going to, if it hopes to force events.

I don't know if the U.S. would disregard it's obligations to Turkey in favor of Israel at this point in time.

That is what I have been wondering.

If we stick to our NATO obligations, Israel has bought it.

This means all that blackmail material the Israelis have on our politicians will be rendered nothing more than enemy propaganda; psyops from a belligerent rogue nation.

It won't matter how many of our politicians they have by the balls if their blackmail grip has lost all it's bite.

*You're right about the ball being in Turkey's court. They have the moral high-ground and are well within their rights to begin retaliation against Israel. If they do decide on this course (and the time is right), then NATO either has to help out or effectively cease to exist.

Proto,

What do you think Obama will do?

His lack of courage might bring about the end of NATO is what I think.

[edit on 1-6-2010 by Exuberant1]

reply to post by Jacobcraft


No, they ain't that stupid. The soldiers would never carry such a paper on them. That is BS propaganda. Let's keep it honest on both sides.

Holy CRAP! Ahmadinejad is claiming to have intelligence that suggests Israel is planning a large-scale attack on Gaza. Check out the news.
SOURCE

President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad said today that Iran has precise information that Israel plans to launch a "massive attack" on Gaza. "We have precise information it has planned a massive attack against Gaza to make up for its past defeats," Ahmadinejad said in a public speech in the western Iranian city of Ilam which was broadcast live by state television. "I warn you that if this time you commit a crime against any place, against Gaza, the storm of regional nations' fury will uproot you," he said.