Reports: Israeli ships attack aid flotilla

reply to post by jackflap


Actually there may be something bigger at play here my friend, that stands between Turkey and Israel.

If I am right Turkey might be about to play a masterful game of provoking Isreal into a military confrontation when it will best serve Turkey instead of best serving Isreal.

If you ask a well connected Israeli what they see as the being the cause of the next great round of Middle East Wars they will tell you WATER.

Isreal does not have an adequate supply of Fresh Water, and in fact imports quite a bit of it from Turkey that has the best supply of fresh ground water in the region.

Eventually Isreal will attack Turkey for its water supplies, say 10 to 15 years from now.

Currently though Turkey enjoys an important Strategic Alliance with us here in the U.S. since the U.S. Bases in Turkey are key to the logistical supply lines in Afghanistan and Iraq.

If Turkey wanted to go to war with Israel and keep the U.S. out of it, now would be the time to do that.

However they still need a pretext to start the war where Israel is seen as the belligerent.

This might be a case where the Israeli's dispraportionate heavy handedness has been and will continue to be played on, to cast it as the beligerent.

With Israel's own actions partly to blame, and a strategic alliance with the US that it can't really walk away from, Turkey might be in the best position it will ever be to take on Israel militarily, knowing full well that sooner or later a war over water is inevitible.

The Zionists might be about to be suckered big time.

No wonder Rome says it is keeping a close eye on the situation.

Originally posted by DoomsdayRex

Originally posted by mr-lizard
Oh please your logic is childish and you are doing nothing more than baiting. I will report you if you continue to discredit the hard work of many members here.

Grow up.

The only one who needs to grow up here is you.

Every member has the right to disagree with any other member, every member has the right to provide evidence to support their opinion or evidence that counters another member's opinion. It is not a violation of T&C to "discredit" the opinion of members; in fact, it is the right of every member to do so.

Actually i'm not the one attacking anybody here. I'm merely holding my own against someone who is trying to bait me into posting something inadequate.

I'm not taking the bait. I will continue to provide proof when i find it and back it up with sound reasoning and ask for opinion.

It IS againts T+C to 'bait' members into off-topic arguements however. Let's keep on topic eh?

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


I tried to steer clear of where this was all originating from but it is inevitable my friend. I seen it way back when I was watching the news. I didn't make the link that you have about the water, but I seen it for what it was. Unbelievable that even when people opt out of all of the nonsense and just want to help their fellow human being, Rome will not allow it.

Originally posted by InvisibleAlbatross
Where is the video taken by passengers that matches it?

Compare what can be seen in this Sky News report, from the passenger perspective to what is seen in the footage from the IDF.

reply to post by MikeboydUS


Where did I say I was quoting you ?

I know you obviously have some mental limitations, but please try to keep up.

Originally posted by thedeadtruth
Anyone else notice the Israel apologist are also mentally deficient in critical thinking process ?

I have also witnessed this same trait in religious nutters.

Coincidence ?

Resorting to insults.

I see that you think communication is a competition.

Why don't you get it over with and go ahead and skip to the personal insults.

reply to post by DoomsdayRex


Can you link a video that does not require me to sign up to youtube?

Folks I cannot help but to use a cliche here... "Careful what you wish..."

Once the cork is popped, theres no putting the genie back in. Israel are ready to take this to an end game and so are Iran & Syria. ALL OUT END WAR! This will not work out good no matter who "wins". A lot of people are going to die, witness horrors, and be in the middle of this no matter what side they are on. Nobody deserves what they will get.

Let's hope and pray that calm is restored. This is not a good time for war ANYWHERE. The loser will probably win and the winner will probably lose.

If you are cheering on either side or wishing for "something to happen", you will not be able to handle the events leading up to a "cease fire" as the fires will not cease till even you are burned!

Again, hope/pray that some sort of peace is restored before this goes to all out war, and finally, nuclear.

Originally posted by mr-lizard

Originally posted by DoomsdayRex

Originally posted by mr-lizard
Oh please your logic is childish and you are doing nothing more than baiting. I will report you if you continue to discredit the hard work of many members here.

Grow up.

The only one who needs to grow up here is you.

Every member has the right to disagree with any other member, every member has the right to provide evidence to support their opinion or evidence that counters another member's opinion. It is not a violation of T&C to "discredit" the opinion of members; in fact, it is the right of every member to do so.

Actually i'm not the one attacking anybody here. I'm merely holding my own against someone who is trying to bait me into posting something inadequate.

I'm not taking the bait. I will continue to provide proof when i find it and back it up with sound reasoning and ask for opinion.

It IS againts T+C to 'bait' members into off-topic arguements however. Let's keep on topic eh?

I have had no intention of baiting you and I have no intention of baiting you.

I am simply disagreeing with your opinion.

I actually respect a counter point to my opinion as you orginally provided before going off on one.

I am also open to being proven wrong and will be quick to admit it.

Let us act like adults and get back on topic, shall we?

Originally posted by InvisibleAlbatross
reply to post by Dock9

 

So tear gas and stun grenades were used. Logic says the soldiers would not use them while they were on the boat. They must have used them before boarding. Why would they do that if they simply wanted to search the vessel?

Israel didn't just want to board the vessel, they wanted to take total control of the whole ship and take it to their docks. As they had giving warnings about in advance.

Stun grades and flash bangs are standard instruments used in this type of operations by commando units. There is nothing odd at all about what happened here.

Stun grenades and flash bangs will be dropped from the Helli's just before or as the commandos descend down the fast ropes. That is done to scather the people from the aria the commandos want to descend onto. There was no flash bangs or stun grades used by the commandos descending on the front part of the ship. And no shots fired.

If he commandos climb onto the boat by wire latters, they will have soldiers securing the climb with guns, an will shoot if they are prevented from entering. Its how they are trained to react. There is nothing odd about that.

Commando units are not trained to enter a ship peacefully. They are trained to enter with total readiness to kill. It will take every step needed to get total control as fast as they can. There is nothing odd about what happened here, when units like these are being used. Its how they are trained to operate.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


You might be on to something, but I think it may be reversed. Meaning Israel could be leading Turkey into a mess.

US operations in Iraq are ending and drawdown has already begun.

Also what was Rahm Emanuel really doing in Israel?

There could easily be more than meets the eye here on both sides, with each trying to outgame the other.

We should have an idea within a week where this is headed.

reply to post by spy66

There is nothing odd about what happened here, when units like these are being used. Its how they are trained to operate.

Yeah, somebody knew what they were doing. We all know how those troops are trained to take control of the area in which they are deployed. They do this aggressively and use very loud forceful verbal communications to get their point across. If that doesn't work, force is applied incrementally until they have control for their masters. So what?

reply to post by jackflap


There is always something a level or two down my friend. Sadly we live in a world where do gooders are always going to be used and abused as cover for bigger agendas.

We get stuck and caught up on the surface issues though and never probe the soft white underbelly to determine what is really going on.

If you look at it from Turkey's position, had Israel let the convoy through because they were Turkish flagged ships, it would have signified to the Turks that the relationship with Israel was strong, healthy and safe.

Yet if on the other hand the Israelis didn't even though Turkey has become a key and critical trading partner and ally then no, the relationship is not strong, healthy or safe.

So in essence Israel has demonstrated there is no advantage to have an alliance with it, or believe that alliance is one that means anything to Israel.

The Israelis have been tricked into revealing their actual position on Turkey, and that is going to give Turkey a lot of options that Israel would have been far better served not giving them.

This could prove really interesting with the actual war coming from the least expected quarter over the least anticipated thing.

reply to post by MikeboydUS


Stop hating on me just because I called out your general knowledge and basic logic.

And you deserve to be called out. Because you lack of intelligence is dangerous.

You do know what "Deny Ignorance" means right ? Not "practice, support or promote ignorance" ?

Not all men are created equal. Even though I am sure you wish they were.

The discussion of the videos has got me curious about what we are not seeing, what neither side has shown us. We have seen the IDF video of the commandos being attacked. Freedom Flotilla and their supporters have been all too happy to show us a brief snippet of the commandos boarding the ship and being attacked, they have been all to happy to show us the resulting carnage. But at no point has anyone shown us the actual shooting.

reply to post by thedeadtruth


Do you have anything to substance to add to the conversation or are you going to continue with the ad hominems?

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


Point well taken, and I see where you are coming from. It's an elusive reality they portray for us and I'm glad you are able to discern it. Thanks for the clarification my friend.

reply to post by thedeadtruth


I am not the one hating here. That is simply not in my character.

I am all for rational and mature debate. Resorting to snarky remarks is neither rational or mature.

Proto and I have had many good discussions on ATS, even though we tend to disagree. Even though He and I disagree on some things, I respect him. His investigations are in depth and his responses are insightful. Most of all, our discussions are rational and mature.

If I was going to "hate" on anyone it would be him.

regardless of whose wrong or not

i think about it like our situation in Iraq. People call that an 'illegal' occupation now. Heck there are even those in congress that have called us being over there illegal. Now with that in mind. Think about this.

Group of soldiers holding a blockade on a thoroughfare into Baghdad. 6 cars are speeding forth from the distance. Soldiers give warnings they cannot cross the blockade and attempting to do so will have dire consequences. The 6 cars do not heed warnings. The soldiers then take them out killing all that attempted to get past.

Now that scenario happens quite a bit in Iraq. Course mostly with 1 car trying to pass, but it's not the exact situation dealing with on water of course. But with Israel occupying the entire area and like has said before USA will board ships that are 200 miles off our own coast. So I don't see it as a big issue against Israel boarding the ship, then seeing the flir footage of the soldiers attacked all hell broke loose.

Things could have went smoother I agree with that. But honestly the flotilla is damn lucky it wasn't the U.S. holding the blockade. Because if it had been U.S. ships holding the blockade the entire flotilla would be sitting on the bottom of that ocean already.

So if you support our troops in their decision to kill those that are trying to pass their blockades and ignore warnings, then I don't see much of a difference. Whether you believe Iraq is illegal or not or whether you support US troops or not of course is your decision as well as your opinion on this incident.

But the funny thing is those that are insulting others for having their own opinion. It's one thing to discuss and talk about what's going on. But condemning others for supporting Israel's actions or condemning others for supporting the flotilla's actions is pure ignorance since neither side arguing will win. Like the old ancient "meme" 'fighting on the internet is like winning the special olympics... you can finish it from there'.





my opinion was at first I cared, but with all the petty bickering not here but between all the media outlets and the people involved on both sides. Their own name calling, finger pointing, the politics involved and those playing politics and people just whining on both sides from all the videos, online and media reports I have now got to the point that frankly I don't give a damn about either side anymore. It has gotten to be a waste of my time to even care since both sides that are involved are both giving excuses and playing politics and neither side has really honored the ones that died.

So im done keeping up with this bit of stupidity. I'll go see what the oil is doing, at least it's more entertaining than jews and muslims postering and chest beating at the moment.

Originally posted by jackflap
reply to post by spy66

 

There is nothing odd about what happened here, when units like these are being used. Its how they are trained to operate.

Yeah, somebody knew what they were doing. We all know how those troops are trained to take control of the area in which they are deployed. They do this aggressively and use very loud forceful verbal communications to get their point across. If that doesn't work, force is applied incrementally until they have control for their masters. So what?

Well it has everything to do with how things escalated. These units are trained to eliminate what ever threat that apposes their objectives.

This event would have had a totally different out come if the people aboard the vessel were peaceful. The people aboard the vessel were not peaceful. They showed physical aggression towards the commando unites.

Showing aggression towards units like this, is not the most intelligent way of illustrating peaceful intentions.





[edit on 27.06.08 by spy66]