Reports: Israeli ships attack aid flotilla

reply to post by Logarock


European politicians and an 86 year old Holocaust survivor carried out a test run to check Israel's defences?

(Sorry for repeating myself again, guys. Some posters keep missing it)

Originally posted by gambon
reply to post by Foppezao

 

yes especially as this was the last ship to be taken , the others having been taken peaceably already, why did this ship choose to fight?when the others did come in peace?

Makes me think of my 'mob for hire' suggestion again.

Originally posted by Bugman82
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

 

You misunderstand international law. International law is clear that any ships trying to break a blockade imposed by a nation can be intercepted. Motif was clear that the flotilla intended to break the blockade. If motif is present, even within international waters, Israel can intercept.

That is the most silly thing I've read tonight!

1. They were in international waters and the ships weren't moving - they weren't moving anywhere in legal terms.

2. The vile blockade of Gaza is illegal according to the whole world community and the UN, well except from Israels point of view and Maaybee the US?

Originally posted by MY2Commoncentsworth


When ever I feel the need to be amused or entertained, I watch some of the many Radical Islamic execution videos on the web. I just love to see people who hate this country kill themselves off. There's nothing like having a few cold ones and watching a few Alan Ackbars!

Any of you terrorists care to respond?

I bet you miss the days when you could go out and lynch a black man on Saturday night. Brings a tear of nostalgia to your eyes doesn't it?

Originally posted by MikeboydUS
I didn't plan on posting in this thread, but there is far too much ignorance and speculation going here.

ATS's motto is afterall "Deny Ignorance"

Some Facts:

The last known coordinates of the flotilla.

Latitude: 32.64113
Longitude: 33.56727

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/1b2e9fd587d6.gif[/atsimg]

This places them not in International Waters.

This actually places them within Israel's Exclusive Economic Zone according to the UN Convention on the Law of the Sea.

3. In exercising their rights and performing their duties under this Convention in the exclusive economic zone, States shall have due regard to the rights and duties of the coastal State and shall comply with the laws and regulations adopted by the coastal State in accordance with the provisions of this Convention and other rules of international law in so far as they are not incompatible with this Part.

www.un.org...

This means any foreign ships, must comply with laws and regulations adopted by the coastal state, in this case Israel's.

This is an example map of Israel's EEZ along with offshore gas operations.
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/51c6f7bc18f0.jpg[/atsimg]

Article73

Enforcement of laws and regulations of the coastal State

1. The coastal State may, in the exercise of its sovereign rights to explore, exploit, conserve and manage the living resources in the exclusive economic zone, take such measures, including boarding, inspection, arrest and judicial proceedings, as may be necessary to ensure compliance with the laws and regulations adopted by it in conformity with this Convention.

www.un.org...

Israel was within its full rights under UN Convention. This flotilla was not within international waters and was in violation of Israeli laws and regulations.

[edit on 31/5/10 by MikeboydUS]

If its up to 200 nautic miles beyond their baseline its their EEZ/practically territorial waters..

Originally posted by Skellon

Originally posted by gambon
reply to post by Foppezao

 

yes especially as this was the last ship to be taken , the others having been taken peaceably already, why did this ship choose to fight?when the others did come in peace?

Makes me think of my 'mob for hire' suggestion again.

Indeed, we do not know what communication went on , on the other ships , seems very odd how there is no footage from either side of those ships?noone with a mobile phone, nothing

Was there communication with the last ship before the landing , or had it refused to answer hails ? thus making them wary , and reliant on infomation from people on the the ship itself?

Originally posted by Dagar
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

 

As I said in another thread, this also has the capacity to rip NATO apart.

Having had a Turkish vessel attacked by an Isaeli military force, and Turkish citizens killed and injured, Turkey are well within their rights to invoke that part of the NATO treaty that states ' An attack on one member is an attack on all'

I really can't see the USA going for that one, not in a million years... I can however see Turkey resigning from NATO, and denouncing the alliance for being worse than useless and 'not fit for purpose' ...

If that happens it might also make one or two other members take a second look at the usefulness of an Alliance that depends on whether any retaliation for an attack on a fellow member (by the US) depends on whether the attacker is Israel or not.

I agree. Also, even though Turkey is not member of EU, this is the result of the weakness EU is showing recently. Europe seems to be falling apart. There is little unity left in it, except for the still strong bureaucracy. That will not hold water. America is also showing plenty of weakness.

Let's take a look at what Obama did today?
He skipped the memorial speech. Scrammed. There were some lightnings there.

A shameful and humiliating day for Israel, to kill unarmed people on a ship in international waters, because it is fearful.

Some nations grow up never to get enough courage to face their own mistakes. They start shooting into their own shadows...

witnessgaza.com...

havent seen this posted so there ya go. straight from the mouths of those who were there.

People who are ignorantly posting, "but it was in international waters" obviously have not read nor do they understand international laws concerning the breaking of a blockade.

Important factors are:
Intent and prior warnings - The people of the flotilla through numerous confirmed sources and quotes made it quite clear their intent was to break the blockade. By international law intent and prior warnings are the keys here:

SECTION V : NEUTRAL MERCHANT VESSELS AND CIVIL AIRCRAFT
Neutral merchant vessels
67. Merchant vessels flying the flag of neutral States may not be attacked unless they:
(a) are believed on reasonable grounds to be carrying contraband or breaching a blockade, and after prior warning they intentionally and clearly refuse to stop, or intentionally and clearly resist visit, search or capture;

Israel knew intent to break the blockade and they gave prior warning. Case closed......

[edit on 31-5-2010 by Bugman82]

reply to post by Foppezao

This actually places them within Israel's Exclusive Economic Zone according to the UN Convention on the Law of the Sea.

I'd like to have one such Exclusive Economic Zone. How do I get one? By killing someone?

reply to post by MY2Commoncentsworth


That did not happen here. We are talking about this incident

reply to post by Foppezao


Your exactly right. Up to 200 nautical miles under the UN convention.

The flotilla was within 70-60 miles of the coast, when the boarding operation began. They were in clear violation of the law and given ample warnings and instructions.

Turkey really doesn't have a case here.

I cannot believe the sailors escorting these dangerous terrorists are not wearing kevlar and carrying bazookas! Don't they know how dangerous they are?!

salem-news.com...

www.youtube.com...

Edited to add video. Can someone embed please?

[edit on 31-5-2010 by InvisibleAlbatross]

quadruple? Sorry all. Must have an itchy finger

[edit on 31-5-2010 by InvisibleAlbatross]

triple. sorry

[edit on 31-5-2010 by InvisibleAlbatross]

edited to remove double post

Originally posted by Chevalerous

Originally posted by Bugman82
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

 

You misunderstand international law. International law is clear that any ships trying to break a blockade imposed by a nation can be intercepted. Motif was clear that the flotilla intended to break the blockade. If motif is present, even within international waters, Israel can intercept.

That is the most silly thing I've read tonight!

1. They were in international waters and the ships weren't moving - they weren't moving anywhere in legal terms.

2. The vile blockade of Gaza is illegal according to the whole world community and the UN, well except from Israels point of view and Maaybee the US?

The ships weren't moving? Are you sure?

One look at the footage shows the ships wake at the rear of the ship when viewing the 3 Israeli special forces troops, and one of those can be seen to be compensating for the roll in the ship, either that or he is totally drunk, the former I think.

Other shots show Israeli boats moving in formation with the ship....

So now we have concluded that the ship was moving and Mike has proven that it was also in territorial waters.

Maybe now some of you will begin to accept that there is an air of bull*hit concerning anti-Israeli reporting.

I do not believe Israel or it's enemies are innocent and devoid of blame.

However I have defended Israel to a point in light of the continued anti-Israel exploitation of the media that I have witnessed for many years now.

Israel are also guilty of this, however their enemies lies are bigger and seem to impress more world opinion.

All along the tactics of the anti-Israel organisations have been to bait the 'heavy handed one' to do exactly what it does best; use its heavy hand.

They have turned Israels strength into its weakness and it cannot change its course, they know this. If it ceases to use a heavy hand in response to being provoked it shows weakness and invites invasion. If it responds with a heavy hand it invites international condemnation. "Damned if you do and damned if you don't".

Israel is caught in a check mate situation.

By the responses of the majority of world public opinion and ATS'ers, it is most effective.




[edit on 31-5-2010 by Skellon]

Looking at the wake , I would suggest the ship is doing at least 15 kts, mebbe even 20 , going some for that boat .....

How any of you poor buggers can defend israel and its murder is beyond me....

Makes me sick.....

Yet another PR calamity for israel......

The lies have have begun....

Remember when israel vehemently denied bombing the UN compound in Gazza until this was exposed as lies?

There denial of WP use in Gazza over civilian residences??

Its there MO....lie...deny...lie.

Shame on Amerika ....its silence is deafening.

Originally posted by MikeboydUS
I didn't plan on posting in this thread, but there is far too much ignorance and speculation going here.

ATS's motto is afterall "Deny Ignorance"

Some Facts:

The last known coordinates of the flotilla.

Latitude: 32.64113
Longitude: 33.56727

Well if this is true it certainly does change things.... Regarding the "facts" of the last known coordinates of the flotilla, in particular the Turkish ship that was boarded, could you post a link to the source?