Reports: Israeli ships attack aid flotilla

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
reply to post by TheAgentNineteen

 

If the IDF had a "death list" already made-up ahead of time, then why did they board the vessel with Paintball guns (Which in turn, were loaded with non-lethal MACE rounds)?

I think what sickens me most about pro-Zionists is their profound inability to keep their stories straight.

First we hear that they boarded the ships with only paintball guns.

Then we hear that they were attacked by the people on the ship who took their guns and shot them with bullets from the guns that they took from the Israelis.

Then we hear that the Israeli’s used lethal force.

So let’s ask some common sense questions then first based on the stories. How did the ‘paint ball’ guns become lethal, once stolen by club wielding angry mobs?

How then did the Israeli’s suddenly find weapons that shot bullets once they decided to use lethal force if the boarding parties only had paintball guns?

Then lets ask, how a paint ball gun would deliver mace, which needs to be delivered into the nostrils and mouth to be effective? Well by shooting someone in the face with the paintball gun.

Yet why modify a weapon that wasn’t intended for that purpose, when you could just as easily deliver tear gas through a tear gas gun, I know every man woman and child including the soldiers in Israel have teargas masks since we here in the United States bought them all.

Why wouldn’t they just use police grade mace canisters which would have a better delivery accuracy?

So lets talk about the likelihood that amongst crowbars, knives, and slingshots on board the vessels the Israeli Troops found one or two paintball guns after leveling lethal fire at someone in possession of a paintball gun.

That turned out of course to just be a paintball gun, where some Israeli sycophant then said, hey wait this could still work for us, “We had the paint guns not them”.

Paint guns did not kill 9 people, and pipes, and crowbars, and knives wielded by the flotilla members killed NO ONE.

What killed people was Israeli Guns that fired live bullets.

The Israeli story, the ever shifting Israeli story makes no tactical sense, and actually doesn’t even support its own account.

TheAgentNineteen is incorrect, it was an activist that was armed with a paintball gun.

You can see this in the footage, look for the guy in black with a respirator holding an sub machine gun sized weapon with a long cylindrical housing above the barrel.

Contrary to some posters belief it was not the IDF that were wearing respirators. They were also not in full black clothing.

The guys in black with respirators are clearly seen to be beating the soldiers with pipes/chair legs/whatever.

The soldiers are wearing brown/olive coloured clothing with black tactical vests and back packs.


[edit on 31-5-2010 by Skellon]

reply to post by mr-lizard


I knew I had read that. Sorry for not giving you credit. Couldn't recall who had written it.

I also wonder if this had to do with Turkey's stance on Syria.

reply to post by Skellon


The Israeli Embassador to the UN even claimed that the boarding parties were armed with paintball guns.

I don't believe that they were, for a number of reasons I have already stated.

This appears to be pure opportunism on the part of the Israelis.

The truth is that it was a terribly executed operation if the plan of the operation was to arrest the ships progress.

If the purpose of the operation was to kill some people and cause an international incident then it was well played.

There are so many other ways those ships could have been subdued without Israeli Troops trying to board them by repelling.

They could have just as easily been met in port and no one allowed off the ship except one at a time through a security checkpoint.

Their vessels could have been rammed as Israel has done in the past.

Electronic EMT Devices could have literally cut the engines of the boats.

The Israeli action was either one of deliberate murder or sheer incompetence but in reality likely both.

Originally posted by MikeboydUS
reply to post by Chevalerous

 

other internationally lawful uses

The blockade runners have to obey the laws and regulations of the coastal state while in the EEZ.

They were unlawful. I know many people don't like that, but what they think doesn't matter. This isn't a popularity contest and life is not fair.

All that matters is when the US State Department and the United Nations both agree that Israel acted lawfully.

It's not my duty to educate you in International Law - but you are wrong!

They don't have to obey the Laws and regulations of the coastal state IF this would interfere or be connected with a crime of International Law which Israel committed exactly the same second when they unlawfully hindered that wessel to freely navigate in those waters and boarded with violence a soverign wessel in International waters.

All rights Israel had in that economic zone ended exactly the same second these things happened and 19 people were murdered by high sea piracy and the unlawful boarding of a freely navigating wessel in that economic zone in the Mediterranean.

And the blockade is illegal according to the UN and the world community - and so also this unlawful boarding of a wessel which has the right to freely navigate wherever they wanted in that economic zone.

Even if this would be an "economic fishing zone" of Israel - It's still international waters god damn it! and International Laws overides any rights of an economic zone and the vile actions they did in that economic zone was against International maritime Law.

And you can't just kill people as you want in International waters!

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


Check the top video on this link, orginally provided by The coffinman.

witnessgaza.com...

At 1:45 you will see an activist in black with a respirator and life jacket throw something.

The information regarding the Israeli Ambassador is interesting, thank you.

Originally posted by MikeboydUS
reply to post by soleprobe

 

This isn't my source, but this is a credible source.

www.guardian.co.uk...

Shortly afterwards another states: "Challenger 2 [one of the boats] contacted by Israeli Defence Force radio A/O approached by IDF ships", and another: "Going ahead". Three more "OK" signals between 1.30am and 2.30am were then replaced at 4.30am by a red exclamation mark stating: "Last position before IDF attack. 04:30 GMT, Latitude:32.64113, Longitude:33.56727" – around 70 miles from the coast of northern Israel and 90 miles from Gaza

According to the source you posted: "They came by sea and air, shattering the peace of a Mediterranean night. Shortly after 4.30am yesterday, in international waters, the elite Flotilla 13 unit of the Israeli navy stormed the Mavi Marmara"

Also... all the 13 following news sources say the attack took place in international waters:

MSNBC

Security Council meets after raid in international waters kills 9 activists

www.msnbc.msn.com...


London Guardian

Noting that the dawn raid occurred in international waters, Ankara hinted at demanding legal redress.

www.guardian.co.uk...

The Globe & Mail

it seems that no one should do such a thing in international waters

www.theglobeandmail.com...

The Huffington Post

Dozens of activists and six Israeli soldiers were wounded in the bloody predawn confrontation in international waters.

www.huffingtonpost.com...


Salem News

Israel's Pirate Massacre in International Waters

salem-news.com...

Fox News

The operation in international waters off the Gaza coast was a nightmare

www.foxnews.com...

Al-Jazeerah

During their Attack on the Freedom Flotilla in International Waters

www.aljazeerah.info... 0Attack%20on%20the%20Freedom%20Flotilla%20in%20International%20Waters.htm

CBC News

The Israeli military denied that its forces attacked the ships, which were in international waters, but said they would enforce the decision to keep them away from Gaza.

www.cbc.ca...

BBC

It happened about 40 miles (64 km) out to sea, in international waters

news.bbc.co.uk...

New York Times

over the attack, which occurred in international waters

www.nytimes.com...

Times Live

Appalling behaviour by Israeli forces. In international waters too

www.timeslive.co.za...

HAARETZ

Confrontation took place in international waters

www.haaretz.com...

Examiner

stormed a flotilla of ships in Mediterranean international waters

www.examiner.com...

There's a lot of folks out there with "far too much ignorance and speculation" that could use your help

reply to post by soleprobe


Israel denied the incident but regretted deaths? My head is spinning.

reply to post by Chevalerous


The United Nations Security Council has to declare a bloackade unlawful and the security council has not declared the Gaza blockade unlawful.

The blockade runners therefore were unlawful.

International Waters exists beyond EEZs. Foreign ships within the EEZ have to obey the laws of the coastal state. Failure to do so can result in boarding and arrests.

The blockade runners failed to obey the coastal state's laws.

You may not like it, but this isn't about ethics, morality or popularity. All that matters is the actions of the US State Department and the UN Security Council.

Originally posted by mack37
Do you realy think the reporters would be standing around on deck talking to the cam AFTER the commandos land?
Surley the IDF would NOT allow that.

Yes I do. And here is the video to prove it. An al-Jazzera reporter standing on the deck of the Mavi Marmara describing how Israeli commandos descended from helicopters to board the ship.

Originally posted by mack37
I have been following this from the start and there are many accounts from ppl who watched the LIVE feed as it happend, all report shots fired BEFORE the landing on deck.

That may be the claim, but there is no evidence of it. And it could be accurate. However, what the objective evidence (video not potentially biased eye-witness accounts) shows is that the Israelis were attacked upon boarding and opened-fire after. If you have video evidence that shows otherwise, then please present it.

Iran producing higher-enriched uranium: IAEA


Iran is pressing ahead with its controversial atomic programme, producing enriched uranium at higher levels of purification and installing more machinery, a restricted UN report revealed on Monday. The UN atomic watchdog said Iran had produced at least 5.7 kilos (12.5 pounds) of higher-enriched uranium, adding that it remained concerned about the true nature of the nuclear activities, which Tehran insists are peaceful. "Based on an overall analysis ... of all the information available, the agency remains concerned about the possible existence in Iran of past or current undisclosed nuclear related activities, involving military related organisations," the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) said in the restricted report obtained by AFP.

Link


Dig that "involving military related organisations:,

Do the actions of Turkey delay or even change any plans IDF have for Iranian nucleat infrastructure?

If theres anything I learned, history does have a tendancy to repeat, especialy when it comes to Isreal and nuke sites.

It does add some extra 'spice' to this current mix.

forgot to add, Maybe POTUS is not excactly the best position to be in right now, or do we have the right man for the times? Either way, I do not evny being in his shoes right now, talk about a full plate!

[edit on 31-5-2010 by ErEhWoN]

Had posted this to the wrong thread

[edit on 31-5-2010 by ErEhWoN]

reply to post by MikeboydUS


Which on one the Palestinian laws did they break? Oh wait Israel occupies the land, so they make their laws apply...So let me rephrase that....Which of Israel's laws did the vessel break?

Originally posted by gambon
yes especially as this was the last ship to be taken , the others having been taken peaceably already, why did this ship choose to fight?when the others did come in peace?

this video provided by Mack leads me to believe the passengers and crew did not expect the Israelis to respond with lethal force. Near the end of the video, the captain of the vessel can be heard saying, "Stop your resistance. They are using live ammunition. We cannot defend ourselves."

reply to post by Skellon


Thanks for the link, if you have been posting to the thread all day you may have missed how events have been transpiring in relation to the spin being put on the event.

I know from my own time spent on boats in sailing competitions, that water baloon sling shots, are popular and fairly common as a way for friendly vessels to partake in some silly fun when out at sea for any lengthy of time. Crow bars are common on ships when it comes to prying open hatches and crates. So too are knives for splicing and cutting rope.

So all of these things could easily be present in significant numbers and its possible a few people had paintball guns to use in similiar ship to ship mock battles that water baloon sling shots are used.

The truth is that these people weren't armed combatants, terrorists, or military personell, they were adventurers and activists that the Israeli Troops murdered, and not in Israel proper but on the high seas.

To say that there is some real desperation to spin this story to Israel's advantage is an understatement, which is why we have heard tales of card carrying members of the communist party and other such rediculous attempts at justifying what is in fact the deadly use of force in once again a dispraportionate way.

By the way when they fire 70,000 rockets and the only fatality is from a heart attack? You might as well be talking about bottle rockets.

Dispraportionate use of force especially through stand off and attack weapons that seldom have the beligerent in harms way?

Well lets just say I don't see much of a difference between a CIA Agent flying a drone over Pakistan from his office in Langley Virginia and targeting people via sattelite in a country we are not at war at, and someone who walks into a crowded market with a bomb strapped to themselves.

Both are murderous lunatics but at least one has the decency to show up in person at the scene of the crime.

Another interesting observation.

witnessgaza.com...

First video.

At 8:00 you will see one of the 5 activists that I have counted using respirators put his hand up to the camera to hide his identity.......


Another thing I always notice with the arab coverage of such events is that they have the same casualties on loop with the occasional view of the 'bullies' approaching in the blackhawk.

This reminds me of the Gaza media blackout of January 08 where the only footage that came out was of the same ambulance carrying a few poeple including children over and over again then cut to the barrage of white phosphor or smoke grenades and then back to the same ambulance and the same wounded, none of them with guns and 90% of them women and children.

Go back to the Iraq wars and you will find the same, thousands of sorties flown, thousands of targets hit and yet the arab media is still showing us that out of all of those actions, they only managed to bomb a few schools, a baby milk factory and women and children... on loop.

And lets not forget the infamous Iraqi 'Minister of Disinformation' Tariq Aziz(sp?) who denied that US M1 Abrahams were rolling into the capital even when they were clearly seen through the window behind him giving the interview....

This is what I am talking of when I say the arabs know how to make the most of a terrible event. They appeal directly to the international community for sympathy and outrage, whilst repeating key alarmist words like murder, slaughter, indiscriminate, evil etc and milk it for all its worth.

We will never know how many of the 'innocents' were holding AK's when they were shot.




[edit on 31-5-2010 by Skellon]

reply to post by DoomsdayRex


How is an IDF-edited and captioned video in any way objective?

Wow in 24 hours this thread has 1734 replies...... 1735 now.

Originally posted by MikeboydUS
The blockade runners have to obey the laws and regulations of the coastal state while in the EEZ.

I wonder if both the Freedom Flotilla and the IDF could be right about international water, in a manner of speaking. From the maps and coordinates we have seen, while the flotilla was in Israeli waters, they may have thought they were in international waters off of Gaza not recognizing they were in fact very close to Israel.

Originally posted by InvisibleAlbatross
How is an IDF-edited and captioned video in any way objective?

Video (as the saying goes) does not lie. Now, if you have evidence that the video does not show what it claims to show, then by all means, present it. However, dismissing it simply because of the source is a very weak argument.

reply to post by CanadianDream420

Now listen carefully, okay?

What if Turkey, although NATO, sent a Pro-Palestinian-Pro-Hamas aid ship down to New Orleans after Hurricane Katrina... You tell me US Forces would not have hopped aboard and if they were attacked wouldn't have shot back.

I await your HONEST answer...

That did not happen. You are using a hypothetical scenario to justify the actions of the IDF in this incident. How about everyone stick to the facts of this incident rather than conjuring up hypothetical actions and responses?

I agree with an earlier post that Israel is a client state for the MIC. A perpetual festering wound in the Middle East which can only be soothed with expensive weapons that should be used and replaced regularly. It is important that Israel antagonize the region from time to time lest peace mistakenly break out and ruin the profits of the few. A base of operations for the elite to maximize energy, weapons and drug profits in their dirty little game. The same game that is currently destroying the entire Gulf of Mexico and possibly the entire eastern seaboard.

I am so tired of the oil wars...I want solar, wind, geothermal, tidal...clean, renewable, plentiful. No oil problems...No Israel problems.

Just a dream...back to the carnage and hate.