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Reports: Israeli ships attack aid flotilla
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reply to post by soleprobe
This will be cleared up in the coming weeks. Most of the news media are not aware of maritime laws or really most international laws.
By the time the UN Security Council votes on this, the news media will have a better grasp of what happened.
For a US perspective, the US Coast Guard operates in our own 200 miles EEZ. We have boarded and seized vessels within that zone.
So for anyone to call Israel pirates, they would in effect be calling any other nation, like the US, who seizes and boards vessels in their own EEZ.
This will be cleared up in the coming weeks. Most of the news media are not aware of maritime laws or really most international laws.
By the time the UN Security Council votes on this, the news media will have a better grasp of what happened.
For a US perspective, the US Coast Guard operates in our own 200 miles EEZ. We have boarded and seized vessels within that zone.
So for anyone to call Israel pirates, they would in effect be calling any other nation, like the US, who seizes and boards vessels in their own EEZ.
reply to post by soleprobe
Exactly.
It is strange that people are calling ATS members ignorant for stating this took place in international waters, when it's also being reported throughout the mainstream media, from the mouth of Israel, and every other nation around the world.
* my bolds
So maybe this ignorance isn't simply confined to ATS members, or perhaps...some people foolishly think they have all the facts and the rest of the world doesn't.
Acknowledging this took place in international waters and not rejecting/denying all of the myriad claims so far from around the world that it did as well, doesn't help their case if they plan to change their mind in the future.
- Lee
Exactly.
It is strange that people are calling ATS members ignorant for stating this took place in international waters, when it's also being reported throughout the mainstream media, from the mouth of Israel, and every other nation around the world.
Israel admits that the assault on the ships took place in international waters, but says it was intended to be a police operation.
PBS News Video.org
Avital Leibovich, an Israeli military spokeswoman, confirmed that the attack took place in international waters, saying:
"This happened in waters outside of Israeli territory, but we have the right to defend ourselves."
Macleans.ca
* my bolds
So maybe this ignorance isn't simply confined to ATS members, or perhaps...some people foolishly think they have all the facts and the rest of the world doesn't.
Acknowledging this took place in international waters and not rejecting/denying all of the myriad claims so far from around the world that it did as well, doesn't help their case if they plan to change their mind in the future.
- Lee
Originally posted by ElijahWan
reply to post by MikeboydUS
Which on one the Palestinian laws did they break? Oh wait Israel occupies the land, so they make their laws apply...So let me rephrase that....Which of Israel's laws did the vessel break?
Intentions to violate the blockade.
Customs/Contraband laws
Immigration laws
[edit on 31/5/10 by MikeboydUS]
Originally posted by MikeboydUS
reply to post by soleprobe
This will be cleared up in the coming weeks. Most of the news media are not aware of maritime laws or really most international laws.
By the time the UN Security Council votes on this, the news media will have a better grasp of what happened.
For a US perspective, the US Coast Guard operates in our own 200 miles EEZ. We have boarded and seized vessels within that zone.
So for anyone to call Israel pirates, they would in effect be calling any other nation, like the US, who seizes and boards vessels in their own EEZ.
Seems lots of people are confused about International Law including those in the Law and Order Business lets look shall we.
"The Palestinian government strongly condemns this crime, which portrays, once again, Israeli disrespect for the lives of innocent civilians, and its disrespect for international law," Fayyad said.
And...
That did not impress Namik Tan, the Turkish ambassador to the United States, who called the U.S. response "sort of weak."
Tan called the attack "unacceptable" and an "act of piracy" and said he "expects a strong reaction from the United States."
And...
Indonesia condemned the Israeli raid, saying in a statement that the blockade against Gaza "constitutes a violation of international law."
And...
Moscow condemned the action as a "gross" violation of international law, according to the Interfax news agency. "Condemnation and deep anxiety are being expressed in Moscow, primarily in view of the fact that some of the participants in the humanitarian convoy were killed or injured," the Foreign Ministry said in a news release, according to Interfax.
That is just a small sampling of many nations who have condemned the Israeli Attacks, but just the ones who have used "Violation of International Law".
So we could consider that four Leaders of Nations including Russia and the world's largest Islamic State Indonesia as well as Turkey, Israel's closest Muslim ally all consider this a violation of International Law, while nations like Sweden, Germany and France are calling for an open and transparent investigation into the matter.
Further there is a little thing called the spirit of the law and the letter of the law.
What Israel did was wrong, and what many supporters of Israel are attempting to do is equally wrong.
The Blockade of Gaza is a crime, and so were the actions taken against these civilians that included their murders by the Israeli Armed Services.
ISRAELI KILLERS CARRIED PRE-PREPARED DEATHS LISTS OF THOSE TO MURDERED[/B][/I]
See source for photo of the list:
See also, 'What Really Happened'
redactednews.blogspot.com...
Turkish Sources - Israeli Advance Target Assassination List Found on Flotilla
Turkish sources and media revealed a document which shows that a death list had been prepared in advance by the Israelis, showing names and pictures of people on board of the ships to be murdered, who, according to Israel, were “involved in the International humanitarian aid for Gaza”.
According to the Turkish sources, hundreds of Israeli soldiers stormed the blue Turkish ship “Marmara” flotilla and they had copies of the death list.
The list included the names of civilians on the fleet who should be killed”. The document was apparently recovered after one of the Israeli soldiers lost it during the piracy act.
See source for photo of the list:
See also, 'What Really Happened'
redactednews.blogspot.com...
(same link as above)
Israel committed a massacre against the Turkish ship “Marmara”, which carried humanitarian aid to the Palestinians besieged in the Gaza concentration camp.
This massacre was well prepared by the Israeli cabinet, and some pro-Israel governments were informed with full details about the planned crime.
Israel commissioned a special unit in the Marine Corps, deployed boats and helicopters patrolling the coast of Ashdod and Gaza and announced the waters off the coast of Gaza a closed military zone.
They also announced via their propaganda organs of their intent to transfer the ships and the solidarity activists to the port of Ashdod before deporting them to their countries as illegal immigrants, and to arrest those who refused to identify themselves and sign a pledge not to return.
They also prepared tents as detention units to jailing the activists and investigating them; the team of the interrogators which Israel choose to interrogate the peace activist was manned by people with experience as torturers and who had previously “worked” the Palestinian prisoners of the israeli gulag.
reply to post by Dock9
This is EXACTLY what i predicted in a few threads on here. Although they could have easily been snatch lists too.
This is EXACTLY what i predicted in a few threads on here. Although they could have easily been snatch lists too.
Originally posted by Blaine91555
Had the Soldiers not fought back, they would have been slaughtered with pipes and knives.
Give me a break. The soldiers shouldn't have been on the ships to begin with Blaine. Armed and trained commandos slaughtered with pipes and knives by peace activists huh?
Yeah the event was orchestrated, FOR MONTHS, it was not only a much publicised event in the rest of the world because it was hoped that it would bring much needed relief supplies and bring attention to the plight of these people, and yeah, it was a baited hook and Israel fell for it, they fired on unarmed civilians on a humanitarian relief mission in international waters.
I was going to post a link to a thread I started on ATS several years back about the Humanitarian Crisis in Pallestine, but mysteriously the thread isn't showing up in the search function, but it's a pretty damned awful situation there. Do any of you guys remember that thread, I think it was back in 2007?
Originally posted by Dock9
ISRAELI KILLERS CARRIED PRE-PREPARED DEATHS LISTS OF THOSE TO MURDERED[/B][/I]
Turkish Sources - Israeli Advance Target Assassination List Found on Flotilla
Turkish sources and media revealed a document which shows that a death list had been prepared in advance by the Israelis, showing names and pictures of people on board of the ships to be murdered, who, according to Israel, were “involved in the International humanitarian aid for Gaza”.
According to the Turkish sources, hundreds of Israeli soldiers stormed the blue Turkish ship “Marmara” flotilla and they had copies of the death list.
The list included the names of civilians on the fleet who should be killed”. The document was apparently recovered after one of the Israeli soldiers lost it during the piracy act.
See source for photo of the list:
See also, 'What Really Happened'
redactednews.blogspot.com...
(same link as above)
Israel committed a massacre against the Turkish ship “Marmara”, which carried humanitarian aid to the Palestinians besieged in the Gaza concentration camp.
This massacre was well prepared by the Israeli cabinet, and some pro-Israel governments were informed with full details about the planned crime.
Israel commissioned a special unit in the Marine Corps, deployed boats and helicopters patrolling the coast of Ashdod and Gaza and announced the waters off the coast of Gaza a closed military zone.
They also announced via their propaganda organs of their intent to transfer the ships and the solidarity activists to the port of Ashdod before deporting them to their countries as illegal immigrants, and to arrest those who refused to identify themselves and sign a pledge not to return.
They also prepared tents as detention units to jailing the activists and investigating them; the team of the interrogators which Israel choose to interrogate the peace activist was manned by people with experience as torturers and who had previously “worked” the Palestinian prisoners of the israeli gulag.
I call BS on this.. the evidence is a photo of something that cannot be enlarged, it could be anything.
Even if such a thing existed, you really think that Isreali special forces would be so dumb to carry hundreds of copies of it around on the operation?
This reaks of BS, and all this from a blog...
"According to the Turkish sources"
"The document was apparently recovered"
Perhaps I should write my own blog titled 'What really, really happpened' and maybe someone on here will link it as proof too.
Yeah, right...
[edit on 31-5-2010 by Skellon]
Originally posted by MikeboydUS
This will be cleared up in the coming weeks. Most of the news media are not aware of maritime laws or really most international laws.
I'll be watching... this may not the first time the entire world news media and every government diplomat on the planet have been proven wrong by one anonymous internet blogger, but I'm sure it's a rare occurrence.
Originally posted by MikeboydUS
Originally posted by ElijahWan
reply to post by MikeboydUS
Which on one the Palestinian laws did they break? Oh wait Israel occupies the land, so they make their laws apply...So let me rephrase that....Which of Israel's laws did the vessel break?
Intentions to violate the blockade.
Customs/Contraband laws
Immigration laws
[edit on 31/5/10 by MikeboydUS]
Wouldn't those charges only apply when on Israeli soil or waters?
How do they apply to boats in International waters heading for a port not within Israel's borders?
OK guys now before everyone starts to hate on Israel think about this... this aid ship was going into a blockade area, you really think they'll be
able to pass by just like that?
And secondly... they won't just send Commando's to attack an aid ship for nothing. I mean come on you guys honestly think that an aid ship going to Gaza has only "aid" for civilians? I don't think so. So there is more than likely that there was something else aboard that ship.
And secondly... they won't just send Commando's to attack an aid ship for nothing. I mean come on you guys honestly think that an aid ship going to Gaza has only "aid" for civilians? I don't think so. So there is more than likely that there was something else aboard that ship.
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
The blockade of gaza may be immoral and unethical but until the UN SC declares it unlawful, it exists.
Right now the details of the event are still circulating, many of these responses are knee jerk reactions and you and I both know all governments, including the US, are guilty of knee jerk reactions.
All of this will be sorted out in time.
The US Coast Guard boards and seizes vessels in the US EEZ for carrying drugs, illegal immigrants, etc.
The difference with the Israeli action is that people were injured and killed. This is a terrible tragedy, but tragic and terrible as it was, there were no clear violations of the UNCLOS.
Of course the UN and the UNSC will be the ultimate judge of that, so we have to stay tuned in to events at the UN HQ in New York.
[edit on 31/5/10 by MikeboydUS]
The blockade of gaza may be immoral and unethical but until the UN SC declares it unlawful, it exists.
Right now the details of the event are still circulating, many of these responses are knee jerk reactions and you and I both know all governments, including the US, are guilty of knee jerk reactions.
All of this will be sorted out in time.
The US Coast Guard boards and seizes vessels in the US EEZ for carrying drugs, illegal immigrants, etc.
The difference with the Israeli action is that people were injured and killed. This is a terrible tragedy, but tragic and terrible as it was, there were no clear violations of the UNCLOS.
Of course the UN and the UNSC will be the ultimate judge of that, so we have to stay tuned in to events at the UN HQ in New York.
[edit on 31/5/10 by MikeboydUS]
reply to post by mr-lizard
And this:
for background reading:
redactednews.blogspot.com...
And this:
Regarding the complicity of other foreign states in this crime, it has transcended that the Germans Parliamentarians who were on-board, Annette Groth, Inge Höger and Norman Paech, had repeatedly asked the German Foreign Ministry for support and protection, but were rebuffed and instead they were warned to get off the flotilla because of unspecified “dangers”.
The strange attitude of Cyprus, which neither allowed the ships to enter port, nor allowed a delegation of Parliamentarians to board the ships, can in retrospect only be explained with the prior knowledge and complicity in the crime if the Cypriot regime.
for background reading:
The Israeli ships monitored the Freedom Flotilla from a distance of about 124 km away of the coast of Israel.
According to the international movement, the passengers rushed to wear the safe jackets and raised the alert status as soon as the war ships were visible.
The peace activists on board of the convoy stated that three Israeli ships spoke to the Turkish ship Captain over radio and warned him of the consequences of approaching the coast of Gaza which was declared as the a closed military area. They demanded from them to bring the humanitarian aid to the port of Ashdod, stressing that the Israeli navy would prevent the penetration a military closed area at any price, meaning that they would not shrink from murdering anybody.
The ships were carrying 10.000 tons of medical supplies and building materials, timber, and 100 pre-built houses, for ten thousands of people who lost their homes due to the Israeli war crimes on Gaza early in the year of 2009. They also carried 500 electric vehicles for the use of disabled people, especially since the recent Israeli war crimes over 600 were left permanently disabled, with amputated legs.
The Israeli Arab Knesset MP Hanan Al-Zoubi had spoken through a loudspeaker in Hebrew with the Israeli military telling them to not attack ships carrying civilian peace activists and humanitarian aid. She added that during her appeal the Israeli soldiers fired live bullets at ships, which led to the wounding of civilians, among them the Arab-Israeli citizen Sheikh Raed Salah, who was shot and now in a critical conditions.
She added: “the Israeli gunboats approached the “Caravan of freedom” and asked the captain of the ship to identify himself and the identity of the boat. The ships were in the International waters about 100 miles from Gaza. At this moment the Israeli helicopters attacked the ships from the sky.
redactednews.blogspot.com...
reply to post by MikeboydUS
You obviously have zero general knowledge in this area.
Off the U.S. coast "Customs" will board you but only arrest people or confiscate illegal hauls, drugs, guns, illegal immigrants etc....
If the customs search turns up nothing the boat is free to go on its way.
How uneducated are you, or are you pretending to be thick ?
You obviously have zero general knowledge in this area.
Off the U.S. coast "Customs" will board you but only arrest people or confiscate illegal hauls, drugs, guns, illegal immigrants etc....
If the customs search turns up nothing the boat is free to go on its way.
How uneducated are you, or are you pretending to be thick ?
reply to post by Skellon
Actually it was one the website of a Turkish media agency BEFORE the blog.
www.akhbaralaalam.net...
Can anyone translate that please?
I guess we'll see in todays media what the list is all about. Because rumours suggest it is going to be revealed ton INTERPOL, media and lawyers.
Actually it was one the website of a Turkish media agency BEFORE the blog.
www.akhbaralaalam.net...
Can anyone translate that please?
I guess we'll see in todays media what the list is all about. Because rumours suggest it is going to be revealed ton INTERPOL, media and lawyers.
Nicely written summation here from Gilad Aztmon
Full article here:
www.redress.cc...
Gilad Atzmon argues that Israel’s murder in international waters of aid workers bound for Gaza was a premeditated act of savagery and that the international community, foremost NATO and the European Union, must respond decisively by cutting all relations with the rogue Jewish state.
The massacre that took place yesterday was a premeditated Israeli operation. Israel wanted blood because it believes that its “power of deterrence” expands with the more dead it leaves behind.
The Israeli decision to use hundreds of commandoes against civilians was taken by the Israeli cabinet together with Israel’s top military commanders.
Full article here:
www.redress.cc...
Originally posted by thedeadtruth
reply to post by MikeboydUS
You obviously have zero general knowledge in this area.
Off the U.S. coast "Customs" will board you but only arrest people or confiscate illegal hauls, drugs, guns, illegal immigrants etc....
If the customs search turns up nothing the boat is free to go on its way.
How uneducated are you, or are you pretending to be thick ?
I never said the US Coast Guard didn't release vessels. So I don't know what you are implying.
I said the US Coast Guard boards and seizes vessels in the US EEZ. I mentioned drug traffic and illegal immigrants.
So who is really the thick one here?
Originally posted by My_Reality
reply to post by CanadianDream420
Now listen carefully, okay?
What if Turkey, although NATO, sent a Pro-Palestinian-Pro-Hamas aid ship down to New Orleans after Hurricane Katrina... You tell me US Forces would not have hopped aboard and if they were attacked wouldn't have shot back.
I await your HONEST answer...
That did not happen. You are using a hypothetical scenario to justify the actions of the IDF in this incident. How about everyone stick to the facts of this incident rather than conjuring up hypothetical actions and responses?
to be honest, imo. who cares what really happened. israelis and its idf will say 1 thing. spin it to their liking. the palestinians/moslem world will give another account.
everytime something happens in that area, all people do is cry foul while the other rebutts.
can the palestinians do anything about it? no.
will there be any consequences to israel or the idf commandos? no.
will it happen again? yes.
how do we change the answers to the above 3 questions?
reply to post by DoomsdayRex
Have you read the thread? Many posters saw it as it happened. I saw a very different video than what the IDF showed.
You claimed it was objective. You did not answer my question about how it could be objective.
Have you read the thread? Many posters saw it as it happened. I saw a very different video than what the IDF showed.
You claimed it was objective. You did not answer my question about how it could be objective.
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