Reports: Israeli ships attack aid flotilla

The allegation that a hardcore group was at the centre of the violence came as new video material was released by the Israeli military, which it claimed showed its troops coming under fire as the raid began. There are no clear images in the footage but naval commandos can be heard shouting: "It's coming from all directions … real weapons … they're firing on us … live fire." One commando is then heard to say: "Shoot him, where is he?"

www.guardian.co.uk...

I guess this is more 'Zionist Spin'?

I think it makes for an interesting read however.

This will be disregarded by my opponents on this thread as it does not support their argument.

Originally posted by CharlesMartel
reply to post by D.E.M.

 

Why would an "aid flotilla" turn down offers of inspection and ground transport from both Egypt and Israel?

Why would Cyprus refuse to let the flotilla dock? Do they know something not being reported here?

Because who the hell are Egypt and Israel, when the convoy goes to Palestine?

MM didnt proto say .."you talk like they wanted to die....... I said bad example .......well here we go

"The allegation came as Turkish newspapers reported that three of the four Turks killed in the onslaught had declared their readiness to become martyrs.

"I am going to be a martyr. I dreamed about it," Ali Haider Banjinin, 39, from Kurdistan, told his family before leaving to join the flotilla, according to one report.

The brother-in-law of retired engineer Ibrahim Bilgen, 61, told another paper that "martyrdom suited him very much. Allah gave him a death he desired."


www.guardian.co.uk...



[edit on 2-6-2010 by gambon]

reply to post by gambon


FAIL Are you twelve? That sounds like my 12 year old mocking his little brother.

Dude seriously how can we have a serious discussion if I worry that you may be a child, I've noted all the warhammer motif avatars around the board and it's quite a worry for an adult to be in this situation arguing with children.

I was a right wing young lad myself supported UNITA of all things, till I was 15 I had Col Bo Grits's name scrawled on a school folder, we all kept real fit wanting to join the army post Falklands, then I grew up and used my brain seeing the obvious injustices and motivations during the miners strike was the real eye opener.

Originally posted by black cat

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
reply to post by black cat

 

I don't think so. Humantarian aide workers and charitable people don't take up knives, metal rods and chairs and beat a commando unit senseless.

It doesn't matter who is breaking into your home in the middle of the night or for what purpose, what matters is they broken into your home in the middle of the night.


The people on board those ships were responding in self defense to an act of piracy in international waters, conducted by a rogue nation operating outside the scope of international law.

On your first paragraph - If I didn't know who was coming then yes, I would defend myself and my family. But we're talking about an incident that occurred in daylight, from the ocean. Out on the ocean it's not like you have the walls of a house obstructing your view of who is invading. Out on the ocean you can see when another vessel is approaching. Those "aide" workers knew who was coming and they defied orders to stop.



On your second paragraph, if pirates were attacking then sure, they should defend themselves. But since when do pirates use non-lethal weapons first, wear commando gear and drop in from helicopters? Don't you think that's a pretty big indicator that these are military or police units? I do, so your "if they were pirates" excuse doesn't make sense to me.

[edit on 2-6-2010 by black cat]

[edit on 2-6-2010 by black cat]

On yer first paragraph....It occurred at night not daylight.....

And onto yer second paragraph....They are considered pirates if they are not invited by the Captain of the vessel AND are in International waters...as is the case here.

Originally posted by Thepreye
reply to post by gambon

 

FAIL

Are you twelve? That sounds like my 12 year old mocking his little brother.

Dude seriously how can we have a serious discussion if I worry that you may be a child, I've noted all the warhammer motif avatars around the board and it's quite a worry for an adult to be in this situation arguing with children.

I was a right wing young lad myself supported UNITA of all things, till I was 15 I had Col Bo Grits's name scrawled on a school folder, we all kept real fit wanting to join the army post Falklands, then I grew up and used my brain seeing the obvious injustices and motivations during the miners strike was the real eye opener.

Funny I thought you were a kid , lack of reading comprehension etc , I didnt make that quote but you attributed it to me....FAIL..tis simple net speak...

UNITA ..really?

[edit on 2-6-2010 by gambon]

[edit on 2-6-2010 by gambon]

[edit on 2-6-2010 by gambon]

Originally posted by Skellon

The allegation that a hardcore group was at the centre of the violence came as new video material was released by the Israeli military, which it claimed showed its troops coming under fire as the raid began. There are no clear images in the footage but naval commandos can be heard shouting: "It's coming from all directions … real weapons … they're firing on us … live fire." One commando is then heard to say: "Shoot him, where is he?"

www.guardian.co.uk...

I guess this is more 'Zionist Spin'?

I think it makes for an interesting read however.

This will be disregarded by my opponents on this thread as it does not support their argument.

Actually it was disregarded earlier as there is literally ZERO video footage...It's just a bunch of dudes shouting...Shall I prove to you that the humanitarians were fired on first? Perhaps I put up a video and just alter my voice a little to make multiple people speaking "Oh no...the IDF are boarding...Oh...they are shooting us...oh no....run...run...grab pipes and defend yerselves...." Would that prove my point to you? Of course it wouldn't....Therefore...don't expect me to accept the same from the FREAKING IDF.....

I won't believe a WORD the IDF says until they release ALL The footage they have...since clearly the boats and copters were recording....But no...we get small 45 sec, spliced and edited clips....VERY unBIASED....

[edit on 6/2/10 by ElijahWan]

[edit on 6/2/10 by ElijahWan]

[edit on 6/2/10 by ElijahWan]

reply to post by Thepreye


I was speaking of the Cuban Missile Crisis, probably the most famous American blockade.

Get your facts straight.

reply to post by Thepreye


You accuse Gambon of acting like a kid and you stoop low in doing so.

He cited an article from the Guardian as part of his argument.

Your response? A character assassination.

'Pot calling the kettle black' springs to mind here.

Originally posted by gambon
"The allegation came as Turkish newspapers reported that three of the four Turks killed in the onslaught had declared their readiness to become martyrs.

It should be noted that the MV Mavi Marmara, though part of the Free Gaza flotilla, is not owned by Free Gaza but a Turkish charity called IHH, with supposed ties to extremists.

I am not saying that those aboard the Mavi Marmara were terrorists, rather some extremists on board (even if there intentions were in the right place) might explain why violence erupted on this ship and not the others.

[edit on 2-6-2010 by DoomsdayRex]

reply to post by DoomsdayRex


"And according to French court documents, IHH was the subject of a Turkish criminal investigation in late 1997 when sources revealed that leaders of the group were purchasing automatic weapons from other regional Islamist militant groups. Based on an analysis of seized IHH documents, Turkish authorities concluded that "detained members of IHH were going to fight in Afghanistan, Bosnia, and Chechnya."

The Daily Telegraph described the IHH as "a radical Islamist group masquerading as a humanitarian agency.

[edit on 2-6-2010 by gambon]

I dont see too many people talking about the fact that the IDF soldiers who came down the ropes onto the ship were taken , and almost had the living # beat out of them , with what looked like crowbars. This happened before the Israelis opened fire. I seen the footage.
The ship was filled with pro-palestinean supporters. Hamas supporters....ie , terrorists.
Israel does what it does because it is insecure after the holocaust and will go to extremes to make sure it never happens again , and I for one , dont blame them. If i were in their shoes , i'd do the same.

Palestine ( a misnomer by the way , as there never was a palestine.......it was a nickname given by the romans ) can lay no claim to Israel , and since they have 21 other arab states around Israel where they could go and live , why do they insist they have a claim to Israel ?

The nations of the world will eventually surround Israel , and they will think they are doing the right thing. Sadly nistaken and it will become apparent just how grave a mistake that will prove to be.

Originally posted by gambon

Originally posted by Thepreye

Funny I thought you were a kid , lack of reading comprehension etc , I didnt make that quote but you attributed it to me....FAIL..

UNITA ..really?

[edit on 2-6-2010 by gambon]

[edit on 2-6-2010 by gambon]

UNITA, I was a nasty right wing young lad, it was over 30 years ago.

You did actually make the quote I attributed to you, my mistake was in thinking you were referring to skellon, if you want to try and score petty points of a seriously minor nature in a thread like this at least try to be correct in your calls of fail or the gallery you were trying to impress will think even less of you and thus your side of the discussion.

Would it be appropriate for me to shout fail at this point, who cares, why do it, it brings nothing to the discussion and frankly looks a bit juvenile even if you are an old like me.

[edit on 2-6-2010 by Thepreye]

I find it quite strange how nobody has questioned the logic of a minority group that 'resisted' putting the rest of the passengers lives in danger?

Though it certainly supports the claim that this minority conisited of antagonists prepared for martyrdom as they would have put their self-importance above the safety of the passengers.

Originally posted by MikeboydUS
reply to post by Thepreye

 

I was speaking of the Cuban Missile Crisis, probably the most famous American blockade.

Get your facts straight.

As I read it it appeared to me that you meant the blockade was a current state of affairs, if you didn't I apologize wholeheartedly.

Originally posted by Reconciler
I dont see too many people talking about the fact that the IDF soldiers who came down the ropes onto the ship were taken , and almost had the living # beat out of them , with what looked like crowbars. This happened before the Israelis opened fire. I seen the footage.
The ship was filled with pro-palestinean supporters. Hamas supporters....ie , terrorists.
Israel does what it does because it is insecure after the holocaust and will go to extremes to make sure it never happens again , and I for one , dont blame them. If i were in their shoes , i'd do the same.

Palestine ( a misnomer by the way , as there never was a palestine.......it was a nickname given by the romans ) can lay no claim to Israel , and since they have 21 other arab states around Israel where they could go and live , why do they insist they have a claim to Israel ?

The nations of the world will eventually surround Israel , and they will think they are doing the right thing. Sadly nistaken and it will become apparent just how grave a mistake that will prove to be.

LOLs....Ex British Parliament? Ex-US Army members...Oh yes...definitely terrorists....I just LOVE how Israel brands ANYONE that wants to help the Gazan people a terrorist.... They sound worse than George W. Bush...

On a second point...The footage...is from the IDF dude...and it's a VERY VERY short segment...do you REALLY think you're getting the whole picture there? Tell me...At what point did the people grab the pipes? Was it as they saw the copter approaching? Or as the ships encircled them? YOU CAN'T TELL ME BECAUSE THE IDF RELEASES WHAT IT WANTS TO RELEASE

[edit on 6/2/10 by ElijahWan]

Originally posted by Thepreye

Originally posted by gambon

Originally posted by Thepreye

Funny I thought you were a kid , lack of reading comprehension etc , I didnt make that quote but you attributed it to me....FAIL..

UNITA ..really?

[edit on 2-6-2010 by gambon]

[edit on 2-6-2010 by gambon]

UNITA, I was a nasty right wing young lad, it was over 30 years ago.

You did actually make the quote I attributed to you, my mistake was in thinking you were referring to skellon, if you want to try and score petty points of a seriously minor nature in a thread like this at least try to be correct in your calls of fail or the gallery you were trying to impress will think even less of you and thus your side of the discussion.

Would it be appropriate for me to shout fail at this point, who cares, why do it, it brings nothing to the discussion and frankly looks a bit juvenile even if you are an old like me.

[edit on 2-6-2010 by Thepreye]

"UNITA, I was a nasty right wing young lad, it was over 30 years ago."

maybe now you feel the need for penance...

I am not trying to impress any "gallery" no ego a gogo remember ...

[edit on 2-6-2010 by gambon]

Originally posted by Skellon
I find it quite strange how nobody has questioned the logic of a minority group that 'resisted' putting the rest of the passengers lives in danger?

Though it certainly supports the claim that this minority conisited of antagonists prepared for martyrdom as they would have put their self-importance above the safety of the passengers.

If that is the case, than it means everyone has been played, IDF and Free Gaza alike.

Originally posted by Skellon
reply to post by Thepreye

 

You accuse Gambon of acting like a kid and you stoop low in doing so.

He cited an article from the Guardian as part of his argument.

Your response? A character assassination.

'Pot calling the kettle black' springs to mind here.

A character assassination hardly, lol, so would that be an ad hominem attack aimed at me, indeed pot kettle black back at ya

Originally posted by DoomsdayRex

Originally posted by Skellon
I find it quite strange how nobody has questioned the logic of a minority group that 'resisted' putting the rest of the passengers lives in danger?

Though it certainly supports the claim that this minority conisited of antagonists prepared for martyrdom as they would have put their self-importance above the safety of the passengers.

If that is the case, than it means everyone has been played, IDF and Free Gaza alike.

Yes I think that is the point ....