Reports: Israeli ships attack aid flotilla

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler

Originally posted by Skellon
www.jpost.com...

I have accepted all sources of footage from onboard the Freedom Flotilla, now please check out the link above that was written last week regarding the perceived motive and result of such a Free Gaza Flotilla.

Wow the Jpost! Don't you have something more unbiased like from Jihad watch dot com.

Edit to add: Do you have anything from the American Tobacco Institute by chance on "How smoking is good for us"?

[edit on 2/6/10 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]

You are missing the point totally...

I realise the article is biased, however the point I was making was that they anticipated the motivation and result of this Freedom Flotilla's journey before it set sail. Including the resulting media frenzy and international condemnation.

They anticipated this without forseeing the 9 deaths that unfortunatly occured.

[edit on 2-6-2010 by Skellon]

Here is what a witness says:

The Brazilian filmmaker Iara Lee, who was onboard the Mavi Marmara when it was stormed, claimed the Israeli troops had invaded the ship and "started shooting at people."

"It was a surprise because it happened in the middle of the night, in the darkness, in international waters, because we knew there would be a confrontation but not in international waters," she told Brazil's TV Globo on Tuesday.

"Their first tactic was to cut all of our satellite communications and then they attacked," Lee said, reportedly speaking from an Israeli prison in the city of Beersheva, 80km from Jerusalem, where she was under arrest.

"All I witnessed first hand was the shooting," said New York-based Lee, who has also lived in Iran and Lebanon. "They came onboard and started shooting at people."

www.guardian.co.uk...

Sorry. This is the correct link.


[edit on 2-6-2010 by DangerDeath]

Originally posted by DangerDeath
Here is what a witness says:

The Brazilian filmmaker Iara Lee, who was onboard the Mavi Marmara when it was stormed, claimed the Israeli troops had invaded the ship and "started shooting at people."

"It was a surprise because it happened in the middle of the night, in the darkness, in international waters, because we knew there would be a confrontation but not in international waters," she told Brazil's TV Globo on Tuesday.

"Their first tactic was to cut all of our satellite communications and then they attacked," Lee said, reportedly speaking from an Israeli prison in the city of Beersheva, 80km from Jerusalem, where she was under arrest.

"All I witnessed first hand was the shooting," said New York-based Lee, who has also lived in Iran and Lebanon. "They came onboard and started shooting at people."

warincontext.org...

I am sorry but your link is pointing to a different article.

Ok,
after the witnesses (again, not "muslim terrorists, but German, English parliamenters), what are you saying about "terrorist attack on Israeli commandos" argument?
Please read and watch all the witnesses, and we discuss again.

Originally posted by DangerDeath
The Brazilian filmmaker Iara Lee, who was onboard the Mavi Marmara when it was stormed, claimed the Israeli troops had invaded the ship and "started shooting at people."

"Their first tactic was to cut all of our satellite communications and then they attacked," Lee said, reportedly speaking from an Israeli prison in the city of Beersheva, 80km from Jerusalem, where she was under arrest.

And we already know her account is not accurate. Press.TV and al-Jazzera were able to make reports from the deck of the ship after the Israelis boarded.

Not only is it not accurate, it is inconsistent with the accounts of other witnesses, who claim the Israelis started shooting people before the commandos boarded.

So which is it?

reply to post by DoomsdayRex


Did you watch the German parliamenters account? I don't understand what you are defending here.

www.guardian.co.uk...

This is the correct link.

And here is another video.

www.guardian.co.uk...

'We will take necessary action - including opening fire' The Spirit of Humanity was carrying aid, building supplies and toys from Larnaca to Gaza on 30 June when Israeli gunships surrounded it in international waters and threatened to open fire. The film-maker Ismahil Blagrove captures the tense stand-off between the Israeli navy and the Free Gaza ship's captain and crew, which includes a Nobel peace prize winner and a former US congresswoman

I don't know how to embed video, so if anyone please can do...



[edit on 2-6-2010 by DangerDeath]

Originally posted by Skellon

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler

Originally posted by Skellon
www.jpost.com...

I have accepted all sources of footage from onboard the Freedom Flotilla, now please check out the link above that was written last week regarding the perceived motive and result of such a Free Gaza Flotilla.

Wow the Jpost! Don't you have something more unbiased like from Jihad watch dot com.

Edit to add: Do you have anything from the American Tobacco Institute by chance on "How smoking is good for us"?

[edit on 2/6/10 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]

You are missing the point totally...

I realise the article is biased, however the point I was making was that they anticipated the motivation and result of this Freedom Flotilla's journey before it set sail. Including the resulting media frenzy and international condemnation.

They anticipated this without forseeing the 9 deaths that unfortunatly occured.

[edit on 2-6-2010 by Skellon]

Oh my poor misled friend. Do you not realize that there are no accidents in life? That where International incidents occur they are all staged.

Do you realize there is a deeper darker far more sinister agenda at play here, one that is entirely predictable, because it is entirely planned?

Do you understand that the Zionists in charge of Israel do not care about Israel or Jews but are playing a huge role in driving world events towards a major world war to be fought in the Middle East?

That the policies and actions that the Zionists are carrying out are all deliberately aimed to do the opposite of what the people are told they are meant too.

Do you even realize that the blockade actually entrenches and further consolidates Hama’s hold on Gaza and does not weaken it, because Hamas is the only organization that can then smuggle in needed supplies and medicine and that the blockade makes the citizens of Gaza more dependent on Hamas and angrier towards Israel?

Do you actually even stop to think that your own tragically errant defense of these sycophants and murderers harms Israel and does not help it?

There is going to be a major war in the Middle East it is going to destroy Israel and most Muslims and most Christians, and that is the entire purpose of the war, and the Zionist leadership is helping to set up that war knowing it will have devastating effects on Israel and the Jews?

Do you understand your inability to think down a few levels and across a few levels and examine the issues in honest detail with a critical eye actually just ends up making you a tool for media talking points that are spoon fed to you, to aide in all of this?

The Flotilla debacle turned out exactly how Israel planned it, a poorly executed raid that resulted in heavy causalities amongst aide workers to inflame international tensions, and prompt people towards more polarized sides than ever to lead them to war.

This wasn’t great insight on the part of the J-Post it was preparing the people for the outcome the Zionist regime planned on affecting.

An outcome that would have never ever, ever, ever, ever, happened had they just not attempted to stop the flotilla and let the aide go through.

It’s very simple friend. To bad you can’t see it.

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler

Your neighbor’s house is on fire, they are on the lawn coughing and crying, the house is engulfed in flames and they tell you that their little child is still in there.

Do you go in the house to rescue the child to save the child because you care about the child and your neighbors, even knowing as you do you might be risking your life, or do you go into the house simply to make the fire department look bad because they hadn’t already arrived on the scene?

Or do you do nothing and console your neighbors, or do you do nothing and criticize their neighbors for letting their house catch on fire and murdering their own child in the process.

PEOPLE ARE STARVING, PEOPLE ARE SICK, THEY NEED HELP.

Get over your precious Israel already, it’s not about Israel, it’s about starving and sick people who need help and DESERVE HELP.

Helping people often involves a risk, so what political agenda do you imagine the good neighbor or Samaritan has that rushes into the house to save that child and the risk of their own life?????

There's another possibility which might better suit some of the newer posters here:

1. Throw the family out of the house because you want to live there.

2. Ridicule the family for now living across the road from their house, in a tent.

3. Burn their tent down because the children threw stones at you.

4. Shoot the fire-fighters who come to put the fire out because they might give the children dried fruit, nuts or fruit juice, (all banned "contraband" in Gaza.)

5. Cry foul because the dying fire-fighters sprayed water on you.



"Oh no, those terrible liberal commie hippie muzzie anti-house-thieving-arsonist paid mob of terrorist sympathiser fire-fighters were armed . . .
with hoses!!!"

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


A bit off topic but, do you have any thread or a reading about the connection between zionists in charge and their aim to bring ww3 in middle east?

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler

Originally posted by gambon
PROTOPLASMIC>>>"Once again all you are displaying is your ignorance of sailing, and your ignorance of normal ships practices, to establish something that in fact has not been established."

Im sorry those are not normal practices ...


Any aid organisation anywhere worth there salt would not even allow the personal defence weapons of a ship into a volatile possibly hostile aid mission to a war zone ...I find you very naive If that is what you think is the norm , it also makes me wonder about some other claims tbh......In no way should an Aid ship have any weapons on it ,,Hell nost of the super tankers around somalia dont have them , In a lot of places they are illegal on a merchant ship....



[edit on 2-6-2010 by gambon]

[edit on 2-6-2010 by gambon]

Display your credentials in regards to aide organizations please.

Name some well known International Aide Orginizations please to display you are familiar with Aide Orginizations.

Also please list the tax codes for Aide Orginizations since you are pretending to be an expert on Aide Ogrinizations.


Just like you!

I dont have to provide anything to you ,you made the claims I have never heard of your organisation , I do not believe it to be the biggest in the world?

What would american tax codes have to do with anything?

A link to a previous employer , as much as your going to get..

en.wikipedia.org...

PROTOPLASMIC
"hen when you get done embarassing yourself I will pull up links that show dozens of aide organizations actually recieving armed ecscort by militaries and private security contractors into war zones and hot spots."

Does this mean you think that this ACTUALLY went on on board?as it is so normal?



[edit on 2-6-2010 by gambon]

[edit on 2-6-2010 by gambon]

reply to post by DoomsdayRex


She may be mistaken by saying "satellite communications". From ALL the info I've read, they DID cut cell-phone communications ect from the ships......
This is likely what she is referring to. As for you claiming her account is inconsistent....I'd disagree as we 1) Don't know where she was on the boat, 2) What she exactly saw in the CHAOS......

OF COURSE the accounts are going to differ a little, each individual person tells their own side of the story, and tries to recount what they saw.

I'm sure yer quite familiar with "Chinese whispers"
SOURCE

I'm also sure yer familiar with the fact that NO two eyewitnesses EVER give the exact same account....People factor in their age, gender, upbringing, religion, personality ect when it comes to an eye-witness report. They have specific ways of saying things, and like I said...may have only seen certain things....

I'd say it's pretty consistent that the IDF were firing BEFORE the people grabbed clubs/pipes....I think every eye-witness account has that bit in it...regardless of if they fired from the boats first, or fired once they hit the deck....

Example: Perhaps the people on the back deck thought the boats were firing when in fact the IDF troops were firing as they hit the deck ect?

Originally posted by deccal
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

 

A bit off topic but, do you have any thread or a reading about the connection between zionists in charge and their aim to bring ww3 in middle east?

You might want to read My All Roads Lead to Rome thread.

The opening piece is a bit long, 35 pages typed in Micro-Soft Word, but in it you will find everything you never wanted to know about the World you live in!

Including World War III and how Israel factors into it.

It's a huge conspiracy.

To date the thread has recieved 312 flags and almost 1500 replies, so I can say that not only alot of people have read it but glad that they did.

Thanks.

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler

Originally posted by deccal
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

 

A bit off topic but, do you have any thread or a reading about the connection between zionists in charge and their aim to bring ww3 in middle east?

You might want to read My All Roads Lead to Rome thread.

The opening piece is a bit long, 35 pages typed in Micro-Soft Word, but in it you will find everything you never wanted to know about the World you live in!

Including World War III and how Israel factors into it.

It's a huge conspiracy.

To date the thread has recieved 312 flags and almost 1500 replies, so I can say that not only alot of people have read it but glad that they did.

Thanks.

I will do that thank you, however I dont think it is a huge conspiracy , it is just life ...the rich hang out with the rich , the powerfull hang out with the powerfull , the poor with the poor etc etc all througfh time.......

May I reccomend to you this book also...very good writer..

The iron cage: the story of the Palestinian struggle for statehood
By Rashid Khalidi

[edit on 2-6-2010 by gambon]

I told myself that I was'nt going to read this thread because it might upset me too much and that i may reply in anger to some of what i have read that sickens me.

A very good friend of mine was on board a ship that was attacked by the Israeli commandos, he watched some of his fellow passengers be murdered and he is lucky to be alive, he was there whilst they fired stun grenades onto the deck before the troops got onboard, he is being deported back to Ireland as we speak after appearing in court in Israel. He tried to fight deportation but to no avail. Him and the other Irish guys with him will get a heroes welcome when they arrive home. No doubt they will want to get back out there as soon as possible to try and continue the mission they were on, which was bringing much needed aid supplies to Gaza, they have now inspired many other Irish people to follow in their example.

An Irish aid ship bound for Gaza ( the rachel corrie) should reach there by friday, the Irish Taoiseach Brian Cowen spoke in Irish parliament and has warned Israel not to intervere with the ship.

The Israeli government needs to really start to examine their humanity. Its a complete and utter sickening disgrace what they did to those only seeking to help, some of the replies in this thread sicken me along with comments i have read elsewhere online. Its disgusting. I am truely glad that there is people like my good friend in this world, and i am grateful that he was not murdered, he is an example to us all.

reply to post by gambon


My friend, if you haven't hung out with the rich and powerful you have no idea what they are conspiring to do.

Further, you really need to stop imagining what other people do, say like aide workers, and start investigating what people in fact really do and how things really work logistically, not because you imagine they are supposed to work that way, but because you have taken the time to learn the way that they work.

If I was going to build a bridge it wouldn't be a wise idea to imagine how to build one, it would be a wise idea to get the help of a qualified bridge builder who really does know exactly how to build one.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


Thank you, a huge read indeed

By the way, many Arabs began to see Turkey again as Ottoman Empire, who will help them to rescue. This is a very problematic situation, since Turkey is no more an empire and all conjuncture has changed. There is a nice article about but again only German (sorry): blogs.taz.de...

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
reply to post by gambon

 

Further, you really need to stop imagining what other people do, say like aide workers, and start investigating what people in fact really do and how things really work logistically, not because you imagine they are supposed to work that way, but because you have taken the time to learn the way that they work.

I actually Do know quite a bit about logistics and how things "work " funnily enough, However I am not one to blow my own trumpet unlike some it seems.I like to walk with a humble heart ...or no ego a go go

Do you think they had weapons on the ship if it was normal practice? ,

[edit on 2-6-2010 by gambon]

[edit on 2-6-2010 by gambon]

Originally posted by ElijahWan
I'd say it's pretty consistent that the IDF were firing BEFORE the people grabbed clubs/pipes....I think every eye-witness account has that bit in it...regardless of if they fired from the boats first, or fired once they hit the deck...

Just because the accounts are consistent does not mean they are accurate. We can tell from simple physics many of these witnesses may have been mistaken or are lying. There were 700 people aboard the vessel; not all 700 could have been on the decks to witness the events they are claiming. As you brought up, it becomes a game of Chinese telephone. People aboard the ship repeat second or third hand information, casting themselves as the actual witness, not actually knowing whether the information is accurate or not but believing it regardless.

Originally posted by ElijahWan
Example: Perhaps the people on the back deck thought the boats were firing when in fact the IDF troops were firing as they hit the deck ect?

Or any number of scenarios become misinterpreted. There could have been warning shots fired by the Israeli vessels, to which people on board the Mari Marmara think are shots being fired at them. Crowd-dispersal weapons could have been used, and in the chaos they transform from pepper balls or teargas and become live ammunition (of course, at some point it did). Or they could have the events backwards.

Whatever the case may be, they have absolutely no evidence to support their case. And they have been caught lying, saying there was no resistance, then there were no weapons on board. They also claim to have streamed video of Israelis shooting civilians but have yet to post this. Very curious.

[edit on 2-6-2010 by DoomsdayRex]

Originally posted by gambon

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
reply to post by gambon

 

Further, you really need to stop imagining what other people do, say like aide workers, and start investigating what people in fact really do and how things really work logistically, not because you imagine they are supposed to work that way, but because you have taken the time to learn the way that they work.

I actually Do know quite a bit about logistics and how things "work " funnily enough, However I am not one to blow my own trumpet unlike some it seems

Do you think they had weapons on the ship if it was normal practice? ,

I have no way of knowing whether they had weapons on the ship.

Ships are the domains of their captains, each one is like a little tiny nation onto itself when they put out to sea.

Typically what goes on board a ship is always at the Captains discretion.

I can tell you though that even passenger cruise lines like Cunnard and Princess and Carnival have a weapons locker and small arms stored on a ship.

Ships can not only become pirated they can sink and passengers can be marooned.

Senator Rockefeller lost his oldest son when his sail boat got in trouble in a storm of the coast of Borneo and he swam to shore in a terrible storm thinking the ship would sink.

It is believed the young Rockefeller was killed and consumed by cannibals.

There are a lot of legitimate reasons to carry weapons on a ship.

They might never be used, but you definately want one if the situation arrises where you need one.

I would have to say, that it's not likely that there were weapons on the ship, or the Israeli Prime Minister would not be making claims that weapons were stolen from Israeli Commandos.

If there were weapons on the ship the Captain would have had them secured under lock and key, and there would be a weapons locker for them.

It does not appear that there were any number of weapons on the ship, and it does not appear that if there were that they were broken out of the weapons locker, that may or may not have been on the ship.

Usually on a cargo or passenger ship that carries weapons there is one weapon storred for each member of the crew qualified to use them.

I do not know how many crew members were on board the ship, or if any of them were qualified to use a weapon, or if the ship had weapons for them.

It is highly doubtful that weapons if they existed were broken out, because there is no evidence of anyone shooting weapons at the commandos coming down the ropes, just using pipes and their fists.

There is however no way to know, without a physical inventory of the ship.

In reality you are trying to frame an argument based entirely on supposition for all the wrong reasons.

If weapons were aboard, they in fact should have been broken out and deployed since it was an act of piracy and an assault on the ship.

This does not appear to have happened, and the passengers were left having to defend themselves from the Pirates by any means they could obtain.

When a person boards a ship in International Waters without the captains permission that is an act of Piracy.

Any thing done against Pirates is an act of self defense.

A ship having means to defend itself against pirates is not a crime, or an indication of the charachter of the passengers of the ship.

Passengers defending themselves against pirates is not a crime UNLESS THE CAPTAIN OF THE SHIP TELLS THEM NOT TOO!

Captain's law is always at play, and the Captain gets to make that determination, of what people can or can not do on his ship.

Passengers defending themselves against pirates is not an indication of their charachter either. Both sinner and saint will fight if pushed into a corner and their life is on the line.

That is how it works.

You are pursuing a futile argument that has absolutely no relevance on the act of Piracy that occured.