Reports: Israeli ships attack aid flotilla

reply to post by DoomsdayRex

If that is the case, than it means everyone has been played, IDF and Free Gaza alike.

That would be my guess.

Originally posted by Skellon
I find it quite strange how nobody has questioned the logic of a minority group that 'resisted' putting the rest of the passengers lives in danger?

Though it certainly supports the claim that this minority conisited of antagonists prepared for martyrdom as they would have put their self-importance above the safety of the passengers.

\

I'll agree with you there Skellon...It's entirely possible that all the American/German/British/Irish/ ect citizens all hid, whilst all the Muslim/Arab citizens went to fight against the IDF. You KNOW any angry Arab would love to get their hands on a Brutish IDF soldier.

To me this still doesn't justify Israel boarding them in International Waters tho...If they were in Israeli waters I'd take a COMPLETELY different stance and say the "pipe-wielders" were just asking for their deaths....but this happened in International Waters....which makes me think....that if Israel hadn't tried to board them.....in the middle of the night....with gunships, flashbangs, teargas, ect....Then those who wished for "martyrdom" would never have had the chance to do what they did.

reply to post by ElijahWan


How in the hell can the footage of the soldiers inserting from the helicopter to the deck be taken by the IDF?

The IDF footage is the infa red footage and strangely it matches the footage that shows the very same event unfolding from the deck as they board the ship.


Also I saw no evidence of 'gunships'.

If you have this undisclosed footage that we are not privy to, can you please post it.



[edit on 2-6-2010 by Skellon]

Originally posted by gambon


maybe now you feel the need for penance...


[edit on 2-6-2010 by gambon]

Ha ha not at all we had a great time no feelings of guilt, we mostly go through stages of political stand point as we age, I'm sure Churchill said something witty about this process.

Originally posted by DoomsdayRex

Originally posted by Skellon
I find it quite strange how nobody has questioned the logic of a minority group that 'resisted' putting the rest of the passengers lives in danger?

Though it certainly supports the claim that this minority conisited of antagonists prepared for martyrdom as they would have put their self-importance above the safety of the passengers.

If that is the case, than it means everyone has been played, IDF and Free Gaza alike.

That angle needs to be fully investigated by the UN and possibly NATO.

Looks like a potential terror cell was trying to create a major crisis.

reply to post by Skellon


Err...yer post kinda confused me so Imma try to respond. If you watch that Turkish news one....it sounds more like they are getting lit up with Teargas canisters....flashbangs....AND their captain is shot.....ALL before the scene of the troops dropping in.....

This is the problem with analyzing edited video like this....You're going to see what you wanna see, and I'm going to see what I wanna see...I just know there's not a SINGLE IDF video of these people picking up pipes ect....Why is that? You'd think that would be a great vid-clip to release......alas...it likely shows IDF brutality....

reply to post by Thepreye


Fair enough , I would feel guilty though I think...blood diamonds dodgy backers etc ..You really were nasty boys back then..glad they turned to political from violent action

Originally posted by Skellon
reply to post by ElijahWan

 

Also I saw no evidence of 'gunships'.

If you have this undisclosed footage that we are not privy to, can you please post it.



[edit on 2-6-2010 by Skellon]

Ya my apologies...I don't know what to call those little dingy things with guns on em...I guess gunships isn't the right word since that's an attack helicopter according to google. I'm talking about those little machine-gun mounted "boarding vessels" or whatever.

Originally posted by DoomsdayRex


I am not saying that those aboard the Mavi Marmara were terrorists, rather some extremists on board (even if there intentions were in the right place) might explain why violence erupted on this ship and not the others.

[edit on 2-6-2010 by DoomsdayRex]

OK, time to repeat myself again, and cut through all the BS

The reason the ship erupted into violence is because a bunch of pirates, murderers and kidnappers illegally boarded a ship bearing a Turkish flag, in international waters...

The minute they did that, the ship's defenders had the right to use whatever came to hand to repel those illegally boarding their ship. Whether the defenders used steel pipes, tickle sticks, or stuffed a nuke down each abseiling commando's trouser front is irrelevant...

Further to this... if someone illegally enters (or boards) your property, you try to stop them, and that person kills you... they've lost the right to scream self-defense... It is murder, pure and simple.

Arguing whether the occupants of that boat wielded pipes, resisted with makeshift or pre-prepared weapons, or sung anti-israeli sings before they left harbour is irrelevant

An act of piracy, compounded by 10 murders, and the kidnapping of over 600 people on the high seas trumps all the irrelevant arguing back and forth about who did what, and/or wielded what.



A ship was boarded illegally and now 10 people are dead... Piracy and murder

On a final note... The Israelis have just 'expelled' (the MSM's words) all those they kidnapped from the boat...How nice of them Way to spin a mass kidnapping.

reply to post by Dagar


I agree that they had every right to defend themselves in International Waters....Although...this IDF video IS interesting...I must say that...They are CLEARLY preparing for the boarding party at the very least. As I always say...I'll be the first to admit I'm wrong. I'll try to see if this will embed.....

Preparing PIPES ect

From the security cameras aboard the Mavi Marmara: the passengers of the Gaza flotilla are seen here preparing for confrontation with the IDF soldiers. The rioters put on gas masks and arm themselves with rods, slingshots, broken bottles, metal objects, and water hoses. As the IDF soldiers approach the ship the rioters immediately attack the forces by hurling these objects at them.

HOLY CRAP! Just found another..... I think I was the first to say I wouldn't trust anything the IDF had...but this is INDEED troubling for those "activists"

YOUTUBE

In footage captured on the Mavi Marmara, activists are seen attacking the soldiers with a stun grenade, a box of plates, and water hoses as the soldiers attempt to board the ship. the activists are also waiving around metal rods and chains later used to attack the soldiers with. The IDF soldiers were armed with paint ball guns (used for riot dispersal) and pistols which they were ordered to use only as a last resort.

[edit on 6/2/10 by ElijahWan]

[edit on 6/2/10 by ElijahWan]

[edit on 6/2/10 by ElijahWan]

[edit on 6/2/10 by ElijahWan]

reply to post by ElijahWan


even just the link would be ok ..

HOT DAMN www.youtube.com...

www.youtube.com...
and explosives/fireworks/flashbangs...

[edit on 2-6-2010 by gambon]

[edit on 2-6-2010 by gambon]

reply to post by MikeboydUS


You do realise you're all seeing "Snippets" of video carefully selected by the IDF to show the passengers on board as the aggressors ?

You know the way it happened, it was streamed live...And then the events were backed up by the witnesses that were there.

"By way of deception thou shall do war" ..........Yep that says it all.

reply to post by Dagar



I am tired of my opponents in this debate using the word 'murder' to label the Isreali Navy Commandos.

If they were, as you claim 'murderers' they must have planned to kill the passengers all along? As that is what murder is; premedatated killing.

If that was the case, then why did they not just fire from the helicopter or plan a surgical laser guided bomb strike or maybe a torpedo launch?

The latter two suggestions would atleast have kept them off the Press.TV and Aljazeera footage.


[edit on 2-6-2010 by Skellon]

Originally posted by gambon
reply to post by ElijahWan

 

even just the link would be ok ..

Sure thing. It's on that IDFNADESK channel on Youtube.

YOUTUBE

YOUTUBE

Edit to add. I DO also see gas masks being prepared by them in the 1st video.

[edit on 6/2/10 by ElijahWan]

Originally posted by ken10
reply to post by MikeboydUS

 

You do realise you're all seeing "Snippets" of video carefully selected by the IDF to show the passengers on board as the aggressors ?

You know the way it happened, it was streamed live...And then the events were backed up by the witnesses that were there.

"By way of deception thou shall do war" ..........Yep that says it all.

If the live streaming showed what 'actually happened' then I am quite sure there would be more than a few copies of it circulating on the web, especially at sites like liveleak.

Or do Mossad control the whole internet?


>.>

Originally posted by ElijahWan

Originally posted by gambon
reply to post by ElijahWan

 

even just the link would be ok ..

Sure thing. It's on that IDFNADESK channel on Youtube.

YOUTUBE

YOUTUBE

YEp i have just found it ....we come in peace eh?

Oh look a time line....

[edit on 2-6-2010 by gambon]

Originally posted by Skellon

Originally posted by ken10
reply to post by MikeboydUS

 

You do realise you're all seeing "Snippets" of video carefully selected by the IDF to show the passengers on board as the aggressors ?

You know the way it happened, it was streamed live...And then the events were backed up by the witnesses that were there.

"By way of deception thou shall do war" ..........Yep that says it all.

If the live streaming showed what 'actually happened' then I am quite sure there would be more than a few copies of it circulating on the web, especially at sites like liveleak.

Or do Mossad control the whole internet?


>.>

I have been watching live leak for 17 hours nothing on there like it.....make of that what you will..


[edit on 2-6-2010 by gambon]

reply to post by gambon


Well Dagar's points still apply...This was in International Water and they had a right to defend themselves from the boarding party....But that is some DAMNING evidence regardless....I'm just confused how they got Stun Grenades in the 2nd video...I thought Turkey and others independently clear the ship and said no weapons were aboard...Perhaps they only searched the cargo or something?

reply to post by gambon


The last 30 pages of this thread should be removed for being off topic...

Its changed into the "who hit who first thread"

Aned even from the "Activists did first" side there is agreement it was still an act of piracy...

SO, does it matter, if an armed robber breaks into my house, if I hit him first???

As I said, 30 pages of BS argument over an irelevant point and one we may never find the true answer to because,

1) The witnesses will not be believed by all because they will be assumed terrorists by some media.
2) Israel will keep all the evidence.

I think that unless posters have something to add about the original topic then this thread should be closed...Wish I was a mod ....

Originally posted by ElijahWan

Originally posted by gambon
reply to post by ElijahWan

 

even just the link would be ok ..

Sure thing. It's on that IDFNADESK channel on Youtube.

YOUTUBE

YOUTUBE

Edit to add. I DO also see gas masks being prepared by them in the 1st video.

[edit on 6/2/10 by ElijahWan]

Thankyou so much for these video clips Elijah. A very strong contribution to the thread.