Reports: Israeli ships attack aid flotilla

Originally posted by Skellon
reply to post by gambon

 

Notice at 2:41 there is, what appears to be a hand gun in the activists hand as he leans on the wall for support.

Also, the voice we hear of the intercom is perhaps the captain?

If so, he is speaking after the boarding had occured.



[edit on 2-6-2010 by Skellon]

Notice at 10:39 AM there is another mislabeling of a Humanitarian Aide worker by a political activist!

These are human beings; they are human beings on a humanitarian aide mission to deliver food and medicine to the needy suffering from an unlawful blockade by a rogue nation operating outside the confines of international law.

They are being purposefully misidentified and labeled as political and peace activists, so that the incident can be spun away from humanitarian aide to politics, the politics of war, and the politics of a rogue nation conducting an illegal blockade and collective punishment against a whole society and nation in violation of International Law.

This is being done so agents of and proponents of those illegal acts can make the criminal actions of said rogue nation about the politics of said rogue nation, as opposed to about the International Laws the rogue nation of Israel is violating in both its blockading actions, and illegal piracy of foreign flagged vessels, murder of humanitarian aide workers, and theft of private property and kidnapping.

Here you are complaining you are being falsely labeled as a shill and Israeli agent, while at the very same time you are purposefully falsely identifying who these humanitarian aide workers are.

You have commented that the mainstream news you have listened to refers to them as that, yet the truth is that if you are really so unable to make accurate distinctions on your own, that somehow causes you to not see humanitarian aide workers as humanitarian aide workers because of a political slant purposefully made to use politics to justify the crimes of a rogue nation, then in fact you are the political activist, not the humanitarian aide workers.

You are a political activist, arguing the politics of a rogue nation in violation of international law and guilty of acts of unlawful warfare, blockading, piracy and murder and kidnapping, and theft.

So the label you have richly earned that you condemn seems to be much more appropriate than the label you keep purposefully misapplying to the humanitarian aide workers, so you can go about your political activism unabashedly and unashamedly.

The people on board those boats were delivering humanitarian aide to the needy because the needy needed it. That is not political activism, that is charity, that is not peace activism, the opposite of which is war activism, that is charity.

Plain and simple, and any attempts to construe the humanitarian aide workers as anything but are being done for disingenuous political purposes on the behalf of a rogue nation that is in violation of several international laws.


[edit on 2/6/10 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]

In this video, taken aboard the ship, there are passengers who are killed before the troops come aboard. This may be why they reacted the way they did when the troops descended onto the vessel. Consider as well that the other ships that were boarded 'peacefully' before this, may have been in radio contact with this ship and told them what to expect. We have seen articles where people on the other ships were beaten and restrained.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler



I see the large majority of the passengers on that ship fitting your description, I see the minority fitting the description of antagonsit/political activist or simply 'mob for hire'.

Again I stress, teh label of activist is used in many, many news articles regarding this event on both 'sides'.

When footage is provided to the contrary, my opinion will also change.



We both have our opinions.

We should agree to disagree.

reply to post by jackflap


Doesn't appear to be much editing on this video release unlike the handful of others. This is how I imagined things played out from the beginning.

reply to post by Skellon


Really it is tragic that you want to condense the sum total of a human being's essence into a definition from a few brief moments of their life as they are reacting to circumstances you don't even know the actual and full context of.

Yet when placed inside of a larger context, a humanitarian aide mission delivering tons and tons of supplies to the needy, in a peaceful situation where they would be unmolested by agents of a rogue nation operating outside of international law then all you would in fact have is a humanitarian aide worker going about the business of delivering humanitarian aide.

The mainstream news networks are purposefully mis-labelling these people for the sake of politics, pure and simple.

Your arguments are all about politics pure and simple.

About the politics of people you are trying to deliberately mislabel, for the politics of a rogue nation in violation of several international laws including murder of those aide workers.

You are looking for reasons to justify murdering aide workers, by pretending that they aren't aide workers, even though they were on an aide ship, with aide supplies, attempting to deliver them to people in desperate need of them.

That is all about politics and disgustingly so, people have lost their lives trying to deliver charity, and lost them to soldiers of a nation operating outside of international law.

You have yet to address the legality of the unlawful blockade, yet to address the fact that Palestinians are in dire need of aide because of that unlawful blockade, and yet to address the fact that this transpired in International Waters where Israel had no authority to stop and board foreign flagged vessels.

Instead you are focusing shamefully on the personallities of the aide wokers who were attacked in an argument very similiar to "That slut was begging and asking to be raped" that a rapist would put forward to try to excuse and justify their crime.

In reality its a shameless tactic of when you have no real argument to stand on, abuse the plaintiffs, and the people who were attacked and killed by having their vessels boarded where not the Israelis.

The plaintiffs are the aide workers who you are in fact simply trying to slander and abuse as a form of deflection away from the numerous and significant and inhuman crimes of the Israelis.

You are doing that in a way as to show the victims of those crimes, as inhuman and dedicated to a different proposition than they actually were.

You are doing that to try to justify Israel's numerous crimes, which makes you the political activist.

It alsos dislays a supreme lack of morality, compassion and empathy for the plight of others, and even more bankrupt because these people in fact were aide workers on a mission of mercy and charity.

Who will you attempt to slander and vilify next, Mother Teresa?

According to the IDF videos, not a single weapon was a gun, but instead fireworks, slingshots, tools, and poles. If they were such terrorists as the neocons suggest, they would of had at least one gun. The real issue now is I think how should the American people respond to the Presidents cowardliness regarding this situation.

Originally posted by DangerDeath
Israel Begins to Expel Activists It Seized on Flotilla


MSM keep insisting on "expel" as if they were going to Israel willingly. Those people were kidnapped by Israelis outside of Israel borders and brought to Israel against their will, and now they are "expelling" them

Slave conditioning, nothing else...

[edit on 2-6-2010 by DangerDeath]

Yup, releasing or freeing would be much more apt but wouldn't have the same propaganda impact, watch out for Newspeak every time a politico or MSM member open their mouths.

Originally posted by rhunter

Yeah, for the record- I question your reading skills. But, that's nice Skellon, and thank you for responding. So- umm- are you going to pull our dicks forever, Mr. Skellon, or is Mr. Skellon going to answer those questions above that you have been dodging ANYTIME SOON?

Well Skellon- honestly I find you "less than bubbly..". Perhaps you 'n the wife can correct my errors...

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
reply to post by Skellon

 

That is all about politics and disgustingly so, people have lost their lives trying to deliver charity, and lost them to soldiers of a nation operating outside of international law.

It works both ways. The flotilla was just as much about making a political statement as it was delivering aid. Note, I'm not defending Israel, I'm just saying that it's naive to suggest the the flotilla was a totally innocent humanitarian effort and nothing else.

Originally posted by Curio

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
reply to post by Skellon

 

That is all about politics and disgustingly so, people have lost their lives trying to deliver charity, and lost them to soldiers of a nation operating outside of international law.

It works both ways. The flotilla was just as much about making a political statement as it was delivering aid. Note, I'm not defending Israel, I'm just saying that it's naive to suggest the the flotilla was a totally innocent humanitarian effort and nothing else.

Is that a straw man, a genuine mistake or lack of reading the preceding posts, every action or inaction can be politicised however the purpose of the flotilla was the delivery of illegally withheld aid, Sellon's purpose was overtly political in nature making him clearly more worthy of the title political activist.

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler

Originally posted by Skellon
reply to post by Dock9

 

So I have now stated that the killing of 'political activists' is a joke? hmmm

They were humanitarian aide workers and charitible people, not political activists.

More word games, from the propagandists who want to make acts of charity and helping the needy all about politics.

So that they can make it all about politics.

The politics OF STARVING AND MURDERING PEOPLE.

[edit on 1/6/10 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]

I don't think so. Humantarian aide workers and charitable people don't take up knives, metal rods and chairs and beat a commando unit senseless. The IDF used non-lethal force in the beginning and these 'humantarian' aide people took up arms. When their ship was boarded, instead of standing down they proceeded to beat the soldiers. Those aren't 'humantarian' actions and these weren't charitable people of any sort. The hate for Israel on this thread is overwhelming and I'm done with this topic because many of you are looking for any excuse to hang Israel.

Israeli lawmaker on board the flotilla gives her perspective:

link

Haneen Zoubi said Israeli naval vessels had surrounded the flotilla’s flagship, the Mavi Marmara, and fired on it a few minutes before commandos abseiled from a helicopter directly above them

So another witness that claims aid workers fired upon before being boarded.

She added that within minutes of the raid beginning, three bodies had been brought to the main room on the upper deck in which she and most other passengers were confined. Two had gunshot wounds to the head, in what she suggested had been executions.

This suggests that reports of assassintion/hit lists where probably accurate.

Contradicting Israeli claims, Ms Zoubi said a search by the soldiers after they took control of the Marmara discovered no arms or other weapons.

I didn't really expect there to be any weapons found, unless they where planted.


[edit on 2-6-2010 by PplVSNWO]

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


PREACH BROTHA PREACH

No really, if I could you'd receive a constellation of stars from me.

Mod Edit: One line posts - Please review

[edit on 2-6-2010 by Skyfloating]

Originally posted by Curio

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
reply to post by Skellon

 

That is all about politics and disgustingly so, people have lost their lives trying to deliver charity, and lost them to soldiers of a nation operating outside of international law.

It works both ways. The flotilla was just as much about making a political statement as it was delivering aid. Note, I'm not defending Israel, I'm just saying that it's naive to suggest the the flotilla was a totally innocent humanitarian effort and nothing else.

It is all about cause and effect friend. If there was no illegal blockade there would be no need for relief flotillas.

Yes, it is a rare breed of person who will volunteer their time and expose themselves to danger, and do so at their own expense in an attempt to help others.

Yes such people are in fact politically passionate.

Yet as with all things we must address motive, opportunity and profit.

There is no profit; they are giving the materials and resources away. The people giving the materials and resources away aren’t looking to set up churches or trading outposts, or start cults within the area that they are helping or amongst the people they are helping, so they aren’t doing it for control of those people, and the people that they are helping literally have no resources to rape.

So profit is not the motive.

The motive is helping people. In reality there is no real opportunity to help those people because of the illegal blockade Israel is conducting against them.

So the only opportunity then is to take a chance, and a risk, out of passion and compassion to want to help others, and yes that is a form of politics, but it’s a form of politics that involves essentially just the reward of knowing you have helped others.

Israeli apologists and sympathizers act like spoiled children where everything everyone does has to be all about them.

They are taking this political tact of trying to promote the idea that no, there was no intention to help the starving and sick of Gaza, just to embarrass and harm Israel, and that is as self serving as it is arrogant, as it is disingenuous as it is conceded.

Once again if Israel wasn’t conducting an illegal blockade of Gaza there would be nothing that could embarrass the Israeli’s to that end, and there would be no need for any one to have to risk life and limb out of a passionate desire to help the needy, that Israel’s heavy handed and illegal response to would hurt, or embarrass Israel.

The Flotilla is in fact a band aide for an 800 pound Gorilla no one really cares to address the real root disease from which that Gorilla suffers.

The disease is a rogue nation, selectively applying and breaking laws, to suit its whims, who have in fact created an apartheid state and are conducting genocide against it which is what the blockade is all about.

The Israelis are trying to control the caloric intake of the Palestinians, and they learned this from the Nazis in World War II, who managed their prison labor population through caloric intake. A certain amount of calories for inmates on work details so that could perform menial labor but only to a level of dexterity that made them to weak to escape or rebel, and a different level of caloric intake, significantly less for camp bound inmates whose immune systems would gradually weaken allowing them to die from common every day flues and infectious diseases.

The Nazis actually had all this down to a science, where they would send a inmate out to work for 6 months on a 1200 calorie a day diet, which after six months they would start to become dexterous and alert and vital enough to pose an escape or rebellion risk. At the end of that six months they would then be sent back to camp for six months of an 800 calorie a day starvation diet to strip down the muscles and motor coordination and create lethargy and dull the mind. Then they would be sent back out to labor and placed on a 1200 calorie a day diet for another six months and the process repeated. By the third cycle to much nerve system and brain damage would occur to make them any longer useful as a laborer and then they would be put back on the 800 calorie a day diet indefinitely until they either succumbed to disease and starvation or were scheduled for extermination.

Most though died of disease and starvation. The Blockade of Gaza is a similar form of caloric control to create a docile and slowly dying population, for profit, the profit being the international aide Israel gets to manage this process of genocide and land theft.

That’s the 800 pound gorilla in the room. That is what Israel doesn’t want to talk about, or you or I to talk about.

They seek no cure for this gorilla they are trying to murder this gorilla and they want no band aides for this gorilla because they want the gorilla to be unhealthy and die.

It is what it is, and the people doing it, and supporting it are intent on murder and criminally, insanely and inhumanely so.

Yes, these are some of the things that might compel a person to volunteer their time, and money, and even risk life and limb to help people.

What you want to call politics, I want to call being human.

For if we fail to show compassion towards others and help, surely in our own time, when the bell tolls for us, none will show compassion or help us either.

These afflictions tend to afflict one group at a time, but trust me when I say what goes around comes around.

Being humane and having compassion should not be a political act, it only becomes political because of the politics of the inhumane and criminally minded murderers and thieves, hoarders and tyrants of the world.

In reality the real disease is the age old adage “No good deed goes unpunished” these people were trying to do a good deed, and so many of us have been brainwashed into being vile and rabid for god, country and king, we have no human or humane idea of what a good deed really is.

Israel is operating outside of the law, the laws of war, the laws of the sea.

There is no point in having law when it is not applied evenly and fairly. Otherwise it becomes a tool not of justice, but oppression.

The Gazans are in fact oppressed. These people were trying to deliver desperately needed aide to them, in a world, where a rogue nation, because of its politics and political allies is operating outside the law.

Those are the true root politics involved that no Israeli sympathizer or apologist or Zionist shill dares to talk about, because they have no adequate defense because Israel is in fact an oppressive, military state, that operates outside of the law, to steal from others and oppress them as a self sustaining business and way to run and ensure a state. A state built on stolen land, stolen from people who have been murdered, exiled, and imprisoned, and herded into tightly packed and separated enclaves, where they are being systematically and slowly exterminated for profit and control.

Very simple, and very wrong, and very reprehensible, and very repugnant, and beyond the pale, and we will all in due time suffer such a fate when such tyrants and sycophants can carry out their agendas undeterred and unmolested by the laws and morality.

Originally posted by gambon

Not true in the UK, I own and wear a, IDF actually, gas mask and a police riot helmet and a US swat helmet, I even own an old Met riot shield and body armour, very useful in stopping batons, cs gas or rubber bullets.

If you wore that at a demo mate you would be whisked away faster than a dont know what by the boys in blue......ok for airsoft ...not at a peacefull demo...

By the time police have seen me in a gas mask and swat helmet, the armour is ex met undercover stuff so is concealed, the wearing of said items would be the least of my legal worries, my kit is real and would I guess be too expensive and heavy for airsoft. The only air weapon I would consider purchasing would be the Newmatics PM16, not a toy it costs over $2000, worth You Tubing though.

Here comes my 'weak argument' regarding the 'debatable' chronological order of events that resulted in the death of 9 'activists'. Courtesy of the Arabic Aljazeera news network, which by their own 'Code of Ethics', "Present diverse points of view and opinions without bias or partiality."





Notice at 1:05 the repeated stabbing incident is apparently not shown by Aljazeera.





Here, at 2:34, is the 'unedited' footage of this repeated stabbing.



Returning to the Aljazeera broadcast;

Notice at 2:08 the news reader states that "he filed this report moments after the Isreali forces boarded the vessel". Now compare these scenes and the lighting of the sky to the previous video to get a sense of time.

Following this, the reporter onboard the ship states "they have raised the white flag, this after Isreali commandos descended upon the ship" he goes on to say "onboard the ship, which holds 600 activists, parlimentarians, women, children and the elderly, all of whom are civilians."









[edit on 2-6-2010 by Skellon]

reply to post by black cat

I don't think so. Humantarian aide workers and charitable people don't take up knives, metal rods and chairs and beat a commando unit senseless.

Give it a rest, are you going to tell me if armed men break into your home in the dead of the night you aren't going to try to defend yourself?

It doesn't matter who is breaking into your home in the middle of the night or for what purpose, what matters is they broken into your home in the middle of the night.

All you are advocating for is submission to illegal authority, acting outside it's lawful rights, and trying to villify those who won't submit to illegal authority operating outside their pervue.

By the way it sure doesn't say much about the 'commando' unit or their plans or their tactics does it?

The people on board those ships were responding in self defense to an act of piracy in international waters, conducted by a rogue nation operating outside the scope of international law.

How you want to imagine people should wear their labels to suit your argument is simply how you want to imagine people should wear their labels to suit your argument.

In reality what you think is self serving to your argument which is to deflect away from the acts of piracy of a rogue nation.

By making the victims seem like the perpetrators.

Very simple, don't attempt to pirate a ship, you won't get beat on.

Kill someone when you attempt to pirate a ship, well murder is added to piracy.

Defend pirates and murderers and you are part of that conspiracy to murder and pirate.

You might want to think a little bit more about your own actions friends, as you too might one day be held to account for them.

Originally posted by black cat

I don't think so. Humantarian aide workers and charitable people don't take up knives, metal rods and chairs and beat a commando unit senseless. The IDF used non-lethal force in the beginning and these 'humantarian' aide people took up arms. When their ship was boarded, instead of standing down they proceeded to beat the soldiers. Those aren't 'humantarian' actions and these weren't charitable people of any sort. The hate for Israel on this thread is overwhelming and I'm done with this topic because many of you are looking for any excuse to hang Israel.

Of course humanitarians would defend themselves from illegall attack anyone would.

The IDF had no right to use any force, the IDF had no right to be there, the IDF had no right to defend themselves lethally or otherwise they were obliged by law to turn themselves over to the passengers and crew for the crime of piracy on the high seas.

reply to post by Skellon


You're right... Pretty weak considering someone beat you to the punch. Scroll up above your post for a more in-depth look at the entire chain of events.

Originally posted by black cat

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler

Originally posted by Skellon
reply to post by Dock9

 

So I have now stated that the killing of 'political activists' is a joke? hmmm

They were humanitarian aide workers and charitible people, not political activists.

More word games, from the propagandists who want to make acts of charity and helping the needy all about politics.

So that they can make it all about politics.

The politics OF STARVING AND MURDERING PEOPLE.

[edit on 1/6/10 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]

I don't think so. Humantarian aide workers and charitable people don't take up knives, metal rods and chairs and beat a commando unit senseless. The IDF used non-lethal force in the beginning and these 'humantarian' aide people took up arms. When their ship was boarded, instead of standing down they proceeded to beat the soldiers. Those aren't 'humantarian' actions and these weren't charitable people of any sort. The hate for Israel on this thread is overwhelming and I'm done with this topic because many of you are looking for any excuse to hang Israel.

I totally agree with you.

It is refreshing to hear an opinion from a poster that is not blinded by hate.