Reports: Israeli ships attack aid flotilla

reply to post by sinthia

I know if a flotilla of muslims were heading for the UK and nothing was done to stop them i'd be ticked off.

Too bad the flotilla wasn't just comprised of Muslims and included people from about a dozen 1st world countries.

Last I checked, among those on board were Nobel prize winners, holocaust survivors, and politicians from Europe.

I will say there is something odd about this entire event and I would not deny the possibility that this was orchestrated in some manner to create this kind of action.

Israel certainly was in the wrong here, but the question beckons; did Israel do this on purpose?

[edit on 1-6-2010 by SpectreDC]

Originally posted by MorfeuZ
Ow. Those pesky terrorists. (No, you didn't say they were)

Then why do you continue to imply that I am?

Originally posted by MorfeuZ
I don't see anything wrong, violent or terrorist with this organization.

Nor do I. I am just acknowledging they have a political goal, a bias and an agenda. There anecdotes are no more trustworthy than any IDF report, without supporting evidence.

And just because their stated goal may be peace, it does not mean that some members will not pursue violent means.

Originally posted by MorfeuZ
I am trying to be neutral here, but the flood of pro Israeli posts in the last hour astonishes me. All asking for proof proof proof.

How terrible!

Originally posted by MorfeuZ
The world needs to see what happens in Gaza...

The world already knows. The Israel-Palestine conflict occupies an inordinate amount of the world's attention, compared to similar (and worst) situations across the planet.

Originally posted by MorfeuZ
On a side note, why does people always start to get personal when discussing emotional topics like this is beyound me, it adds to nothing.

Perhaps you should look in the mirror. When you try putting words in people's mouths, when you attempt appeals to ridicule, spite, emotion you are engaging in personal attacks.

[edit on 1-6-2010 by DoomsdayRex]

Originally posted by SpectreDC
Too bad the flotilla wasn't just comprised of Muslims and included people from about a dozen 1st world countries.

Last I checked, among those on board were Nobel prize winners, holocaust survivors, and politicians from Europe.

Exactly, but it seems that to some people, since the nobel prize winner was amongst muslims, he is to blame. This kind of logic is what really pi$$es me off.

The same old same old muslim = terrorist. Disgusting.

reply to post by sinthia



What a desperate and absurd example


The aid-flotilla was exactly that

and it had publicised it's voyage, it's passengers and intentions for months


Now why not read my above post, concerning the Geneve Convention

Only IF Israel had declared itself an occupying force in Gaza could it even hope to legitimise a blockade

But israel wasn't prepared to declare itself an occupying force in Gaza, because that would have meant the end of israel, the end of all that free money israel and israelis live off --- and would have meant international condemnation of israel

So, for those and other self-serving reasons, israel was not prepared to declare itself an occupying force. Nor was israel prepared to shoulder the responsibilities that come with being an occupying force


So isreal took the cheap, easy way out. It did not declare itself an occupying force. It just pretended to be one. And hoped no one would notice or call its idiotic bluff


Now we get to the nitty gritty:

IF isreal had been the occupying force in Gaza --- then, and ONLY THEN --- could it have declared a blockade on Gaza

However, as explained --- isreal was NOT the occupying force in Gaza

therefore it's pretence of a blockade was just that ... a pretence

Isreal had NO AUTHORITY to blockade the aid flotilla

Isreal had NO AUTHORITY to approach the flotilla

Israel had NO AUTHORITY to menace the flotilla

Israel had NO AUTHORITY to board the flotilla

Israel had NO AUTHORITY to fire upon the flotilla or even to TOUCH anyone on board

And obviously, israel had NO AUTHORITY to MURDER any member of the flotilla

Isreal had NO AUTHORITY to KIDNAP people from the flotilla

and isreal has NO AUTHORITY to HOLD people from the flotilla OR their possessions


Hope that's clear

IF it is, we won't need to listen to any more spin about a flotilla approaching the UK

Israel will always have the unconditional backing of the US.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

I am just stating that the US has vowed to stand by Israel unconditionally.

Which country in their right mind will risk the unbridled wrath of the US?

My answer : Less than you can count on one hand and those few would only do so if their war footing directly involved the US.

Therefore when anyone speaks of Israel, they speak of the US also.

It is my strong opinion that the US will go to a world war in defence of Israel, I am quite sure that the good people of America will not support it but then they have to fill those recently built FEMA camps with 50 million 'enemies of the state' somehow.

This is why Israel conducts its own free will in the face of world condemnation, it has the impunity to do so.

www.abovetopsecret.com...


I'm leaving this here as an reminder to myself, to be used later!

Just listen to the typical arrogance of the words in that post by our fellow member Skellon - writer of the quote above.

He writes about good American citizens from everywhere in the US who believes strongly in the constitution but may have different opinions than those of the Government - hardworking people from Texas, hardworking farmers from Montana & Kansas, proud hard working Americans from the Southern states and all other hard working proud Americans who believs in the constitution of the UNITED STATES of AMERICA - who happens to think differently than the current politicians in the US Government does today.

Is he advocating the fate and coming treatment for all these people who believes in the constituion or have thoughts similar to those they have in the Tea Party Movement - that if they don't obey every word of Obama or the Israelis - they will be branded dissenters and "Enemies of The State" and will be sent to newly built Fema Concentration Camps?

In fact, here's his quote:

I am quite sure that the good people of America will not support it but then they have to fill those recently built FEMA camps with 50 million 'enemies of the state' somehow.

Ladies and Gentlemen - Good hard working Americans!

I present to you the real face of the apologists of Israeli atrocities - not only are they defending the ultimate disgrace by keeping the Palestinians under siege in the largest concentration camp and open air prison on Earth!

No my friends, it gets better than that - they could actually be advocating in his own words for sending 50 million hard working Americans with different opinions, who are strong believers of the core values and the constitution of the The Founding Fathers of the USA - TO FEMA CONCENTRATION CAMPS.

They call these 50 million Americans which will be sent to those Fema Concentration Camps - ENEMIES OF THE STATE.

Isn't it funny but also very strange and scary that someone who sounds that he could be from the Joos Defence Forces is telling us that "THEY" will send 50 million of those hard working Americans 'who happens to have different opinions than the Israelis' to Fema Concentration Camps.

And isn't it very peculiar that someone who now seems to defending the actions of the same people who went to German Concentration Camps over 60 years ago - are now advocating the same horrible fate for 50 million hard working Americans which he is naming "ENEMIES OF THE STATE."


I wish that I could have written this with much more eloquence in my own native language and not in broken English.

But I hope that at least someone here understood the danger in those words which was written by the member "Skellon" a few posts back.

So stop for a minute and think about what this guy just said!

Is this the face of Israeli Fascism?

Well! we all know that there also exists a lot of very good and fine jewish people all over the world who has contributed so much to the world and humanity through the times with their incredible music, fine art, science and other amazing things which they have been giving us to enjoy and to make the world more beautiful!

And we know that Holocaust survivors were even participating as passengers on this flotilla mission to bring humaitarian aid to the malnourished and starving children of Gaza and to break this illegal and vile blockade - by risking their own lives!

But these are not the fine people of Israel we're talking about here.

The people we're discussing here are the evil people of a fascist regime who are giving all the fine & nice people of Israel a bad name.

And all the evil things this fascist Zionist regime are doing in the name of all great and real jews of Israel.

I really wish that someday, that the real Israel and the real Israelis some day can join the world community without being hell bent on destroying and manipulating the rest of human kind and corrupting the sisters & brothers of the world with their dirty schemes and manipulations.

And I wish that they would be able do this while feeling safe and well respected by the rest of the world as well.

Because I wish them no harm!

But I think that the blind indoctrinated support for the crimes of current Zionist Israel is very dangerous - especially now since its common knowledge that Israel and their Zionists control the US Congress through their proxy AIPAC lobbying Zionist cabal.

And these people acts dangerous and behave like insane human beings - they have just illegally and unlawfully kidnapped & abducted 11 citizens (from the country I'm living in) on International waters, and brought them into Israel, and they are now accusing them for entering Israel illegally without permission.

The above recent modus operandi of this clinically insane regime are making Franz Kafka's worst nightmare to look very amateur'ish in comparison.

Not even Kafka could have done it better or have written a better scenario - it's a true telling sign of the pure insanity of an insane society!

And they think and believe in their sheer arrogance that the all goyims of the world are so damn stupid that they would buy and accept all these lies and insane propaganda fantasies.

This is how insanely evil these people are when they are spinning the truth on forum like this one - when they are lying through their teeth - always lying to the rest of the world.

Beware of the lies and propaganda from their Internet Defence Forces - they have now today mobilized 40.000 defenders of Israel in a mass campaign on the Internet to do damage control for these latest days of murdering events.

These people with their 'Meg@phon€ software installed on their computers are scanning the net for new articles and new forum posts - then they attack like rabid swarms of lucust to do damage control, to spread disinformation while trying to take control of the flow of negative information about Israel posted on the Internet.

Trying to scare people from speaking out against their atrocities with Gestapo methods and ADL hit lists.

Beware good people! they are only using you for their dirty work! - they will lure the good people down the path of total destruction of the good people and their families all over the western world.

All this while Rothschilds - Goldman Sachs and the rest of their financial cabal and their actions are destroying us and the rest of the middle class all over the world.

And "they" are apparently advocating to send 50 millions American dissenters to Concentration Camps - exactly the same horrible fate which millions of people went through in Europe over 60 years ago.

And almost the same vile fate the Palestinian people has to endure in the Concentration Camp of Gaza today!

Ladies & Gentlemens! - I rest my case!

[edit on 1-6-2010 by Chevalerous]

It has been claimed that the master of the ship was shot before the troops landed ....if this is true then how come an eye witness says this concerning th captain?

"Activist Bayram Kalyon, arriving back in Istanbul, had been a passenger on the Turkish passenger ship Mavi Marmara where most, if not all, of the deaths occurred.

"The captain... told us 'They are firing randomly, they are breaking the windows and entering inside. So you should get out of here as soon as possible'. That was our last conversation with him."

so , if he had been shot before the troops landed he then had this conversation ? I think not somehow


edit to add link news.bbc.co.uk...

[edit on 1-6-2010 by gambon]

reply to post by DoomsdayRex


You really misunderstood me man, I did not try to put anything on your mouth, but you were alluding to a comparison that had already been made here, and that was that the muslims abord the ships were hamas.

Don't need to get all touchy and emotional. Although we are in a discussion board, we are all allies towards a common goal aren't we?

PEACE.

reply to post by gambon


Depends on which particular group of IDF you're talking about, doesn't it ? Those on the warships surrounding the aid-ship. Or those rapelling down from helicopters ?

Or, do you imagine the IDF politely filed aboard, one by one, before starting to kill people ?

Former U.S. congresswoman Cynthia McKinney talks about Israel's raid on a flotilla of humanitarian ships destined for Gaza on CBC

www.cbc.ca...#/News/TV_Shows/Connect_with_Mark_Kelley/ID=1509491555

reply to post by Chevalerous


If you read the news article I posted, you would have seen that Turkey was not happy that Israel was not condemned by the UNSC.

The UNSC only condemned the deaths of the activists not the country. Turkey was not pleased at all.

Originally posted by MorfeuZ
You really misunderstood me man, I did not try to put anything on your mouth, but you were alluding to a comparison that had already been made here, and that was that the muslims abord the ships were hamas.

No, I made no such allusion. You are the only one bringing up terrorists and Muslims. I never said they were Hamas supporters or Muslims, or anything. I only said they have a political agenda. Nothing more. Which they do. Perhaps you could point to where I made such an allusion.

Originally posted by MorfeuZ
Don't need to get all touchy and emotional. Although we are in a discussion board, we are all allies towards a common goal aren't we?

I am not the one accusing other members of being propagandists, engaging in appeals to spite, emotion, ridicule and red-herrings. Now that you have been exposed doing it, you are trying to change the subject again by accusing others of being touchy and emotional.

So a moon landing can be faked, but this could not? Last I heard there was doubt about the footage of the BP leak

I agree whole-heartedly. As an American, sometimes I worry about my fate and those of my family. I believe in doing what is right, and that includes standing up to bullies. Clearly Israel is a bully and has been acting like one for awhile. I just hope Americans do not have to suffer for calling a deuce a deuce.

Originally posted by Dock9
reply to post by gambon

 

Depends on which particular group of IDF you're talking about, doesn't it ? Those on the warships surrounding the aid-ship. Or those rapelling down from helicopters ?

Or, do you imagine the IDF politely filed aboard, one by one, before starting to kill people ?

no mention was made of a particular group in the original post , it was stated ,.... people were shot before the troops landed ...in particular it was stated the captain was .....SHOT FIRST, before the troops landed , If this was true how come he then had time to talk to a person on the ship and tell them to get off? With absolutley no meantion of the captain being wounded at all at this point?

*was suggested the shooting came from helis originally


[edit on 1-6-2010 by gambon]

reply to post by Dock9



'Murder'

Definition:

1. crime of killing somebody: the crime of killing another person deliberately and not in self-defence or with any other extenuating circumstance recognized by law

uk.encarta.msn.com...


If the IDF killed with intent then why didn't they just air strike, shell or torpedo the ship?

You are too liberal in your banding about of the word 'murder' and no evidence thus far supports your claim.

You echo the typical arabic coverage of recent conflicts; the Iraq wars, where despite conducting thousands of sorties on military targets with the occasional unfortunate collateral fatalities, the arabic news would have us believe that the US only targeted baby's milk factories, schools and hospitals.

Strangely there were very similar reports during the 'Gaza Holocaust' as you put it. If you recall there was a media blackout in Gaza at the time, with only Palestinian footage coming out. They showed the IDF to be on a mindless rampage targeting women and children, schools, hospitals and the like as primary targets while the world sat back and looked on in horror.

You are the victim of arabic crisis exploitation for the most part as you are right now.

Somewhere between the Israeli propoganda and the Arabic propoganda lies some truth, but you are too blinded by hatred to see.






[edit on 1-6-2010 by Skellon]

reply to post by Skellon


The event itself is that IDF killed a number of passengers after an act of piracy, or if you prefer to call it "illegal boarding and seizing of a ship which resulted in a number of dead passengers".

What more should we know about it? How it went? I bet Hollywood will make its own interpretation of the event, but that won't be history. It will be fiction.

And here are some new faces here claiming that ships were full of invading Muslims!

Facts are facts, and how we see them and rearrange them is a totally different matter, and a cause of further misunderstandings, and in many cases intentional misunderstandings. Which describes the whole situation, since the creation of this Israel until today.

It is a bloody episode which seems to get even bloodier. So who is to be praised for that, since nobody allows to be blamed?

Originally posted by MikeboydUS
reply to post by Chevalerous

 

If you read the news article I posted, you would have seen that Turkey was not happy that Israel was not condemned by the UNSC.

The UNSC only condemned the deaths of the activists not the country. Turkey was not pleased at all.

You can twist and turn and spin the word until your face turns blue!

I don't care! I don't buy your propaganda!

You are making a fool of yourself! - I posted ten minutes after you had posted with links to several breaking news from news outlets sites from around the world - and there was major European news-sites with their morning news saying the same.

Almost all of them said: The United Nation Security Council Condemns the action of Israel!

So I don't really care how the "Jewish" American corrupted media is spinning this!

The rest is just childish semantics form your side!

reply to post by DoomsdayRex


OMG.

When I said that you alluded to something, I meant that you were saying some things that made ME THINK you were drawing that comparison.

Originally posted by DoomsdayRex
You are the only one bringing up terrorists and Muslims.

WHAAAT???
Really? Did you read the beginning of the thread? I thought I made clear that I don't like the comparision. And I directed the muslim comment to other poster.

I even said that I agree with you that they might really have a political agenda, wich I believe they DID.

Now it is you who are trying to put words in my mouth.
Where did I ever label you a propagandist? I may have labeled another member (righfully or not) but not you. And what have you exposed? My sensibility towards a compirision that has been drawn several times in this thread before? Well, THANKS for that.

No one is trying to change the subject here, only you are trying to drive the discussion to a personal level, witch you won't get, since this is my last response to you.

PEACE.

[edit on 1/6/2010 by MorfeuZ]

[edit on 1/6/2010 by MorfeuZ]

As with most incidents like this, it seems everyone has an agenda.

The Foundation for Human Rights and Humanitarian Relief (IHH) is a Muslim charity and non-government organization (NGO) that was formed in 1992 with the goal of assisting Muslims in Bosnia. Since then it has branched out to many places including Lebanon, Pakistan, Sudan, Somalia and the Palestinian territories.

Yet the Turkish group that funded and ran the boat the Mavi Marmara, where the confrontation occurred is documented as having ties to terrorists, was named in federal court papers as playing a role in the failed millennium bomb plot and is named in a C.I.A. report in 1996 as having links to terrorist groups.

liveshots.blogs.foxnews.com...

Politics homogenized with religion and fueled by a few thousand years of violent intrigue is inherently volatile.

This seems to me to just be the latest installment of "the edge of wetness" we humans appear hard wired to broadcast upon each other. Continued aggression from all involved is the usual response. Every faction feels completely justified, moral, and honorable in their actions.

The end result will also as usual be judged as just, unfair, intolerable, typical, progressive, or atrocious depending on the bias filters you sift the facts through. It will also be just as typically debated for years and the facts spun accordingly.

Originally posted by gambon
"Activist Bayram Kalyon, arriving back in Istanbul, had been a passenger on the Turkish passenger ship Mavi Marmara where most, if not all, of the deaths occurred.

In the same article...

German pro-Palestinian activist Norman Paech said he had only seen wooden sticks being brandished as troops abseiled on to the deck of the ship.

However, we know this is not true. The video from the ship shows metal pipes being used to attack Israelis. Either Mr. Paech is mistaken or he is a liar...

Metal pipe...

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/4f6235707522.jpg[/atsimg]

Metal pipe...

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/6e5afa6c8348.jpg[/atsimg]

metal pipe...

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/89076155337e.jpg[/atsimg]

wielded by this guy...

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/a8be113ed1e4.jpg[/atsimg]