Reports: Israeli ships attack aid flotilla

reply to post by gambon


WRONG!

If the evidence exists, it is in the hands of IDF now. The ships are ported, passengers are being arrested etc.

Do you really think that the Israeli governament won't confiscate every single memory card with footage recorded by the passengers???

Israeli governament will do what it always do, damage control. It seems to be working, since you are relying so much on the IDF released footage (yes the editted one with yellow captions).

I will say one more time, until most of the pessengers (people from various countries from diverse creeds) are released and interviewed, no amount of Israeli propaganda will suffice.

reply to post by Skellon

The fact that they used all manner of 'utility' weapons is a significant factor, you can incite an armed force to shoot at you by using such weapons in a brutal fashion, though as soon as they shoot, they become the 'demons'.

Though it is hard to explain why they carried gas masks is it not?

Hanin Zoabi, a member of the Israeli parliament, was on board the Miva Marmara, the ship that was the scene of the confrontation between activists and Israeli soldiers. The Israeli Navy fired on the ships five minutes before commandos descended from ropes that dangled from helicopters, Zoabi said during a news conference in Nazareth, Israel. She said passengers on board the ship wereunarmed.

Cnn.com


Well here is a member of the Israeli Parliament who was onboard the vessel where the bulk of the violence allegedly occurred and is claiming that the Israeli Forces opened fire 5 minutes before repelling to the deck.

If true this would support the claims of some who saw early unedited and uncensored video accounts.

Speaking of which even CNN is describing a video of the incident given to them by Israel as ‘purported’ video of the event and acknowledges that it has been edited by Israel “to add time markers”.

However, it sure does illustrate why fear would be so high on the ship and the aide workers willingness to attack the boarding party with what ever makeshift weapons they had.

Though it is speculation the Greek Captain of the ship is known to have been shot and has already been transported back to Greece, so it’s entirely possible they shot the Captain first before boarding the ship and that caused the mob to form and prepare for confrontation and violence.

As far as why some of the passengers had gas masks, one need not look any further to a typical peaceful G-20 demonstration in any major Western City to know that sooner or later the authorities are going to start shooting teargas when they want everyone to go home.

However it’s possible the gas masks might have been already present on the ship in maintenance supplies for use in tight and poorly ventilated confines being painted. Painting on board large vessels takes place rather frequently, as salty sea hair and rain can wreck havoc on a paint job. Rust can set in quickly on exposed raw surfaces.

Meanwhile those who were mentioning Egypt yesterday.

Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak approved the opening of the Rafah crossing between Gaza and Egypt for humanitarian purposes, state-owned television reported. The Egyptian Foreign Ministry spokesman said two Egyptian lawmakers on the Gaza aid flotilla have been released and were headed back to Egypt.

Egypt has reopened the border crossing with Gaza for humanitarian purposes, which is a result of tensions inside of Egypt that the Israeli Military Strike on the Aide Flotilla caused.

There is little doubt that Israel has made yet another huge miscalculation by attacking a ship that had so many foreign citizens and lawmakers on including several from first world nations.

Originally posted by MorfeuZ
Soon we will start hearing more and more accounts from people from various nations and creeds that were attacked on the boat. Their accounts will be far more credible than anything the IDF releases IMO.

Perhaps one of the most ridiculous statements posted thus far. How would they be any more credible? They are every bit as agenda-driven and biased as any Israeli report. It is very telling you will dismiss video evidence as propaganda but take eye-witness testimony with no supporting evidence as gospel.

reply to post by DoomsdayRex


I guess that will depend on what 'evidence' has or hasn't been confiscated by the IDF mate.

IRM

[edit on 1/6/10 by InfaRedMan]

reply to post by ken10


That sounds like the 'squelch' of a communications system, not gun fire.

Originally posted by SeekerofTruth101


Do consider my post, I plead, to you and others who think like you.

I WILL NEVER HAVE ANY KIND OF SYMPATHY TOWARDS THOSE TAKING LIVES AND HAVING THE CALLOUSNESS TO DENY IT OR TRY TO SPIN IT AROUND

SAME AS I WILL NEVER TOLERATE PROPAGANDA OF ANY KIND , LIKE THE ONE HAPPENING HERE ON ATS IN , TODAY AND YESTERDAY < COMING FROM NEWLY REGISTERED USERS TRYING TO SPREAD PRO ISRAELI FAIRY TALES

I WILL ALWAYS DO ALL MY BEST AGAINST THOSE TRYING TO BRAINWASH COMMON PEOPLE BY SELLING THEM BS IN FORM OF TRUTH

ISRAEL NEED TO TAKE RESPONSIBILITY AS OTHERWISE THING WILL BE MUCH WORST , I , OR OTHERS THAT HAVE THE SAME BELIEFS AS ME WON"T MAKE THINGS WORST , BUT ONLY SPREADING PROPAGANDA AND TRYING TO SPIN THE TRUTH AROUND WILL .



Believe me , a common agreement on this matter from big powers , not involving armed conflicts will only make me happy , in fact will make me more happy than many members here on ATS. But that country needs to be taught that they can't do whatever they want , they don't live in the fukin jungle

Right now in my country the first story on this subject is presented ( strange hah? ) and the first interview reported was of an israeli soldier saying on how they were attacked, and guess what , it sops , the story fukin stops , they go on to other news

And like i already said in a previous post i will never tolerate trashing the common sense by defending criminals , and yes the isrealis are the criminals in this case, because those from the boat are dead but isrealis aren't. This is the definition of a killer , one is dead the other is alive

reply to post by charlie_the_loafer


Dude.. shouting in caps doesn't give your argument any more gravity. Try some restraint!

IRM

reply to post by Skellon


But do you see the Puff of smoke at exactly the same time ?

Originally posted by MorfeuZ
If the evidence exists, it is in the hands of IDF now. The ships are ported, passengers are being arrested etc.

Plenty of people here are claiming they watched the live feed that showed the Israelis shooting before they landed on the vessel. Yet no one can produce a copy of that footage.

Press.TV and al-Jazzera both managed to release reports from the ship. They managed to show Israeli commando descending onto the ship and being attacked, they managed to show the wounded after. However, somehow, mysteriously, they could not manage to show us any evidence supporting Freedom Flotilla claims about Israeli atrocities.

Originally posted by MorfeuZ
Do you really think that the Israeli governament won't confiscate every single memory card with footage recorded by the passengers?

You're doing everything to dismiss video evidence in favor of biased eye-witness testimony, lies and spin.

Originally posted by MorfeuZ
I will say one more time, until most of the pessengers (people from various countries from diverse creeds) are released and interviewed, no amount of Israeli propaganda will suffice.

You don't think the Freedom Flotilla and it's supporters are not engaged in a massive propaganda campaign as well?

reply to post by MorfeuZ

I will say one more time, until most of the pessengers (people from various countries from diverse creeds) are released and interviewed, no amount of Israeli propaganda will suffice.

Not only are 600 passengers being detained and being refused access to communication with consular officials, family, or loved ones, but they are being asked to sign documents that they illegally entered Israel.

The Irish Foreign Minister has lodged yet another strong protest stating that the 7 Irish citizens on board the flotilla vessels did not enter Israel illegally but were seized at sea in International Waters and kidnapped and forced to go to Israel, and objects to Israel trying to get such people to sign forms stating that they illegally entered Israel.

Honestly my friend, I don’t think the shills and the Israel Internet Defense Forces are doing anything right now but making Israel look even worse for their own tactics, by adding what is essentially insult to injury.

Those that want to dig a deeper grave…all the more power to them.

Ireland's Foreign Affairs Minister, Micheal Martin, called for the immediate release of seven Irish citizens who were on board the flotilla.

"The seven individuals concerned did not enter Israel illegally; rather they were essentially seized from international waters, taken into Israel and asked to sign documents confirming that they entered illegally. This is simply not acceptable," Martin said.

What the Israeli Internet Defense Forces haven’t quite wrapped their minds around on this one, is that Israel did not simply offend the Palestinians this time, or the Lebanese this time, or one European country this time, it offended dozens of first, second and third world nations, who do in fact now have to contend with protecting their citizens and reclaiming their citizens kidnapped by the Israel Defense Forces on the high seas, some of said citizens being badly injured, some of said citizens already being dead.

This is something that has affected a whole lot of nations, and is making diplomats and officials work around the clock, some of them on a Holiday Weekend no less.

There will be fallout this time. Lot’s and lot’s and lot’s of fallout this time.

Originally posted by DoomsdayRex

Originally posted by MorfeuZ
Soon we will start hearing more and more accounts from people from various nations and creeds that were attacked on the boat. Their accounts will be far more credible than anything the IDF releases IMO.

Perhaps one of the most ridiculous statements posted thus far. How would they be any more credible? They are every bit as agenda-driven and biased as any Israeli report. It is very telling you will dismiss video evidence as propaganda but take eye-witness testimony with no supporting evidence as gospel.

Sure, delegates from various nations, peace activists, legislators, film makers, physicians, etc. They all must be HAMAS in your way of viewing things right?!?!

Give me a break man, there were much more credible people on board than you might think. Don't let your hatred towards Hamas blind you.

[edit on 1/6/2010 by MorfeuZ]

reply to post by InfaRedMan


sorry about that , it was a mistake that i corrected towards the 2nd part , i didn't realize caps is on

Originally posted by Dock9
reply to post by BungleX

 

No-one has immunity

Yes, they shot an Aussie

The fired a tear-gas cannister into another person's face ... they lost an eye

Others were reportedly shot while they were asleep


We're ALL the enemies of israel, apparently

but we're reprimanded for stating that we regard isreal as OUR enemy

Nice little racket they have going there

ERR the person who lost an eye was NOT on the ship.......she was ashore at a demo.......stop spreading ignorance

reply to post by charlie_the_loafer


No probs mate

IRM

Originally posted by Exuberant1
Hey Folks,

I've assembled the screenshots from the 'Kill list' into one big image - feel free to repost it wherever you want

The images are from this site:

www.dunyabulteni.net...

Edit:



Please post any videos that have the kill list in them and let me know what time it appears in the video. I want to get the best images of it put together.



[edit on 1-6-2010 by Exuberant1]

Question...How come the person holding the list appears to be wearing idf clothing , whilst showing it to the camera?

if it is a kill list why is the photo on the right of background info(presumably)of the targets....
it should be on the left for rapid memory aquisition

if it was a kill list there would be no background info as this would be irrelevant to the job the troops where tasked with,,in fact it could be an encumberance


[edit on 1-6-2010 by gambon]

Originally posted by InfaRedMan
I guess that will depend on what 'evidence' has or hasn't been confiscated by the IDF mate.

Again, many here are claiming they saw a live feed of the incident that portrays Israelis committing various atrocities. Yet so far no one has been able to produce a copy of this live feed.

Press.TV and al-Jazzera were able to get live reports out after the boarding. They could show us the Israelis landing. They could show us the injured afterwards. Yet, they could not show us one bit of footage that would support any number of claims.

All of that is very suspicious.

Originally posted by MorfeuZ
Sure, delegates from various nations, peace activists, legislators, film makers, physicians, etc. They all must be HAMAS in your way of viewing things right?!?!

Give me a break man, there were much more credible people on board than you might think. Don't let your hatred towards Hamas blind you.

[edit on 1/6/2010 by MorfeuZ]

First off, I have not said a single thing about Hamas. You are putting words in my mouth and engaging in non-sequitur appeals to ridicule, spite and emotion to distract from the discussion.

Secondly, yes, legislators, film-makers, peace-activists and physicians can all be biased and agenda driven every bit as much as the IDF, especially as they are members of an overtly political organization with a stated political goal. Their positions do not make them any more honest.

Originally posted by DoomsdayRex

Originally posted by MorfeuZ
Soon we will start hearing more and more accounts from people from various nations and creeds that were attacked on the boat. Their accounts will be far more credible than anything the IDF releases IMO.

Perhaps one of the most ridiculous statements posted thus far. How would they be any more credible? They are every bit as agenda-driven and biased as any Israeli report. It is very telling you will dismiss video evidence as propaganda but take eye-witness testimony with no supporting evidence as gospel.

I have to agree, as a poster earlier cited a young boys' first hand account of the event, a few blogs and mostly arabic news as quality impartial evidence.

Both the IDF and the Arabic sources are agenda fuelled. I would urge ATS members to take 5 mins away from the thread, take a deep breath and then return with a clear, impartial head and analyse the released footage as if you were a detective writing a detailed report of how the events unfolded, minus your strong 'anti-Isra-hell' or anti-arab/muslim feelings.

Once again, the UN shows its complete lack of effectiveness in a situation that it was surely designed to deal with....

BBC News
news.bbc.co.uk...

"The UN statement was the result of a compromise between Turkey and the US. Turkey was reluctant to water down its criticism of Israel while the US - Israel's closest ally - wanted to temper the language used, says the BBC's UN correspondent Barbara Plett in New York.

Turkey is furious at the commando raid, which targeted a Turkish ship and appeared to have killed mostly Turkish activists, she says.

The compromise removed direct condemnation of Israel and removed references to an international investigation, our correspondent adds."

Completely useless North Korea can apparently sink a ship killing nearly 50 people and China won't do anything. Israel can kill 10 people in a very questionable incident and the US won't do anything. It's about time the UN Security Council was overhauled. Imagine if you tried to have a criminal trial where the jury contained people who were friends with the accused...or the judge knew the victim

[edit on 1-6-2010 by Curio]

Originally posted by Dock9
reply to post by Skellon

 

Your claim that the civilians attacked israelis 'before they'd put boots on the deck' is directly contradicted by those who watched the israeli attack live, and directly contradicts those who were there, on the spot, at the time

In fact, civilians were shot by israelis while they were asleep

and Israel itself, initially (before it began the blatant lies) admitted on air, according to major news sources, that the civilians were not armed

Again where id the evidence for this,,,this is hearsay , no evidence to be seen anywhere?